Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

Araganzar posted:

And it should be noted while quite a few players TRIED Transmuters and Wanderers in the last tournament....

...only 3 of them won, and they were all Wanderers.

In general, they seem to fare best as beefy casters.

DgEE and similar were worth a lot of points for a while as well. But yes, any of the "mage" books are good starts for Dg because they will get you far enough to decide if you want more spells vs more melee etc.

Some of the servers have a DgWn round-robin account "dgwnrobin" but I don't think any have been played in a while.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 17:21

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 15, 2024 09:32

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

pathetic little tramp posted:

It was possible to play as a DgDK?

DK's (at some point) weren't Yred worshippers, but rather hybrids like reavers with points in necro.

# ? Jul 7, 2017 19:09

Goffer: Apr 4, 2007; "..."

Some random demigod hints? Here is what got me through, they might be wrong though:

With no god support, you -need- to go hybrid (or maybe just go caster I guess) Eventually getting necromutation or at least statueform is vital - torment in late game will make your life miserable with no divine intervention if you're doing more than 3 runes.

Mutations are the enemy, and you need to be in control of that all game. You need all your armour slots, and poorly sharpen bodies, claws and beaks don't help with that.

With uniform terrible proficiencies, there's not a lot of experience points to distribute. Stick to only a few schools of magic, have a backup reliable ranged option for when things are immune/dangerous to approach with your regular attack. Evocations, throwing, a bow, pick 1. Make sure you have enough skill investment in it to kill things quickly.

For Melee - Don't invest in spellcasting too early, but you'll eventually want to find the Book of Battle - it's basically got everything you need to give you some mid game support, all the spells are useful. That said, Skalds have really rough starts even though they start with the book, the spread means it's hard to ever feel powerful, with a tier 0 weapon and no heavy armour means and you're always struggling to keep pace with the monster level.

Charms and Necromancy are both useful to the endgame, so maybe stick with those as your schools? Summoning is good for getting you some allies, although a lot of summons are tied to extra useless magic schools, further spreading out our exp points, although shadow creatures and haunt are single school/necro hybrids. Raise skeleton/raise dead are useful as you build necromancy points mid game/vaults 1-5. Regen is necessary for hit and run survival in vaults 5.

I don't think transmuter is a good start - all your resists and bonuses come from equipment, so it's not useful until statue form and necromutation, which aren't possible till later anyway, and transmutation is an extra skill to train for little benefit. (Maybe I have it wrong and being a permanent statue Adonis is better than bothering to train armour? I dunno).

Amulet of magic regen and staff of energy pushed it over the line for me, once I got my spells up having all the hunger free energy I needed was great. Casting level 8 spells with a staff of energy means you don't need to eat at all, I had 100+ non perishable rations left and was only a lich 40-50% of the time.

I think the turning point came once I had cleared everything but hell, tomb and pandemonium. I was strong but not capable of casting necromutation reliably. I was strong enough to harvest Abyss, so I did spend a bit of time grinding up there. Given the lack of experience points available in the game, farming the abyss for a while before endgame is necessary. It's also good for building whatever silly skills you need - you can be at 0 fire skill but as long as you can handle those loving annoying star mutators in the abyss indefinitely then you can walk out with firestorm reliably castable if you want.

# ? Jul 8, 2017 02:18

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

welp I lied and I died, played my MuFE today and ended up biting it in vaults:5 entrance. Was actually doing incredibly well and just about to stair up when a warden showed up and cockblocked me, while I was killing him I got low enough HP to be in danger of dying going up the stairs, then learned the hard way that having ring of flames on apparently prevents you from reading a scroll of fog, which makes sense I guess but really loving sucks. if I hadn't wasted that turn I might have survived.

# ? Jul 8, 2017 03:29

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Does draining still lower the amount of XP you get from killing that monster?

# ? Jul 8, 2017 20:46

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

No.

# ? Jul 8, 2017 21:10

Pinechild: Sep 14, 2011

Is switching to TSO worth it on this guy if I decide I want to go for 15 runes? Or is Qazlal going to be good enough? I've never actually switched gods or won with TSO before, but this would be like the third time I've done extended, and the first without Chei's panic buttons. As an aside, there's a holy trishula somewhere on U:3 from where Mennas rolled up on me, would that be a better option than my current glaives? I'm never entirely sure about how base speed vs. damage works out.

Edit: Never mind, I did not sufficiently appreciate how bad V:5 is when you can't escape.

code:

Pinechild the End of an Era (Formicid Fighter)     Turns: 54952, Time: 05:33:19

Health: 200/200    AC: 30    Str: 33    XL:     27
Magic:  37/37      EV: 18    Int:  8    God:    Qazlal [******]
Gold:   4816       SH: 31    Dex: 17    Spells: 26/26 levels left

rFire    + + +     SeeInvis +   a - +5 glaive (venom)
rCold    + + .     Gourm    .   B - +0 large shield
rNeg     . . .     Faith    .   Z - +5 plate armour of Qazlal's Benevolence {Dex+5}
rPois    .         Spirit   .   (helmet unavailable)
rElec    +         Reflect  .   c - +2 cloak "Yhixzug" {*Slow Regen+ Str+3}
rCorr    .         Harm     .   d - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
MR       ++...                  r - +2 pair of boots {Fly}
Stlth    ..........             F - amulet of regeneration
HPRegen  1.23/turn              J - ring "Qomitow" {+Inv rF+++ rC+ Int-3 Stlth-}
MPRegen  0.25/turn              D - ring of the Past {+Fly rElec rC+ Slay+2}

@: flying, repel missiles
A: permanent stasis, dig shafts and tunnels, four strong arms, antennae 3,
deformed body, frail 1, screaming 1, weak 1
}: 2/15 runes: decaying, gossamer
a: Dig, Shaft Self, Upheaval, Elemental Force, Disaster Area, Renounce Religion,
Evoke Invisibility, Stop Flying

Pinechild fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Jul 9, 2017

# ? Jul 9, 2017 01:29

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Is there a point of diminishing returns on stacking regen? I've got a VsFi who's level 17, so already at full regen race ability. I also have a Cloak of Regen (and +MR and Slay +4 so possibly one of the best cloaks for a fighter ever), a Hat of Regen, and an Amulet of Regen. I don't have much else to wear in those slots, but I will down the road. Is it worth trying to "max" regen with a low-hp Vs?

# ? Jul 9, 2017 01:38

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Tonight, I'm going to be continuing with my DSFi^Gozag over on CBRO
~~http://crawl.berotato.org:8080/#watch-LordSloth~~
I'm going to see if I can make a three-long streak with some sorta assassin (answer: i'll splat the dumbest way possible on D:1)
beem: LordSloth has 2 consecutive wins (HOFE, FoFi; HOFi, HOFi; BaSu, BaSu; NaWr, NaWr) and has won their last game (DrVM).

Trip Report:
That guy won, somehow having ran into FOUR bazaars in a single game. I moved onto a Halfling Assassin of Dithmeno. SOMEHOW still alive after TWO goddamned shaft traps. The second one had me encountering a player ghost, Urug (with double sword), Sonja, Erolcha, and some swine I'm sure are related to Kirke. I actually made it back to the lair entrance alive, I'm glad to say. I thank cowardice, consumables, and stealth.

LordSloth fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Jul 9, 2017

# ? Jul 9, 2017 02:33

Toadsmash: Jun 10, 2009; Dave Tate's downsy face approves.

Died to a Seraph/angel swarm on D15 on my orb run. Closest yet. :cry:

# ? Jul 9, 2017 05:31

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

So playing FoFi^Ok and Uncle drops me a randart Latajang with freeze, Str+3, Dex+4. He had already dropped a +3 broad axe with speed, rPois, and Dex+3 on it which I was using and I already had an exe axe of chopping that Rupert had dropped so I figured I was set. But....I just couldn't get over the mental image of an antman spinning a latajang in two hands with a big gently caress off shield in the other two so training staves it is! Maybe not beep boop optimal but fun.

Also am I the only one who feels bad killing ants when playing formicid? :smith:

# ? Jul 9, 2017 12:19

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Do you feel bad about killing entropy weaver's? No?

Nevermind then.

Now quokkas on the other hand...

# ? Jul 9, 2017 16:31

Half of Dracula: Oct 24, 2008; Perhaps the same could be

LordSloth posted:

Do you feel bad about killing entropy weaver's? No?

Nevermind then.

Now quokkas on the other hand...

I thought the game didn't let you eat your own species, but I realized that must not be true anymore/ever halfway through Shoals when my Merfolk was gorged on the flesh of his people

# ? Jul 9, 2017 16:44

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

That's if you go with Zin as your god. They also prevent you from eating chunks from other "intelligent" enemies.

# ? Jul 9, 2017 17:06

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Sage Grimm posted:

That's if you go with Zin as your god. They also prevent you from eating chunks from other "intelligent" enemies.

I think (but am not 100% sure) that at one point TSO also disliked cannibalism but other intelligent species were OK. Just not yours.

Edit: Still does! As does Elyvion. Last times I've played TSO were gargoyles (who aren't food) and minotaurs (who are super rare) so I forgot it was still a thing.

Prism fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jul 9, 2017

# ? Jul 9, 2017 17:16

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

I've never gotten a caster off the ground, much less to 2 runes

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.19.5 (webtiles) character file.

patheticliltramp the Eclecticist (DEFE)            Turns: 75410, Time: 06:58:17

Health: 130/130    AC: 10    Str:  5    XL:     20   Next: 42%
Magic:  44/44      EV: 28    Int: 34    God:    Vehumet [******]
Gold:   143        SH: 13    Dex: 15    Spells: 13 memorised, 2 levels left

rFire  + . .      SeeInvis .    o - +8 demon blade of Focus {pain, rPois Int+4}
rCold  + + .      Gourm    +    i - +2 robe {rC+}
rNeg   + . .      Faith    .    a - +3 shield {AC+3}
rPois  +          Spirit   .    L - -2 hat of the Alchemist {rElec rPois rF+ rC+ rN+ MR+ rMut rCorr}
rElec  +          Reflect  .    U - +2 cloak {rPois}
rCorr  +          Harm     .    f - +0 pair of gloves
rMut   +                        w - +0 pair of boots
MR     +++..                    d - amulet of the gourmand
Stlth  +++++.....               C - +5 ring of evasion
                                r - ring of wizardry

@: repel missiles
A: talons 1, robust 1
a: Renounce Religion
}: 2/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled


You are on level 2 of the Depths.
You worship Vehumet.
Vehumet is exalted by your worship.
You are completely stuffed.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 37 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ice Cave.

You have collected 3961 gold pieces.
You have spent 3818 gold pieces at shops.

code:

 a - Fighting        10.6  18.4   -2    h - Spellcasting    18.7  17.8   +3
      Short Blades     8.4   1.0    0    i - Conjurations    16.1  21.0   +1
  b - Long Blades     12.0  20.2   -1    j - Hexes            7.1   4.8   +3
  c - Unarmed Combat   0.0   1.4   -2    k - Charms           7.1   4.0   +4
                                         l - Summonings       8.0   7.6   +1
  d - Throwing         2.6   3.0    0    m - Translocations   0.0   0.8   +1
      Slings           1.1   1.4   -2    n - Fire Magic      15.0  19.3   +1
                                         o - Air Magic        0.0   1.0    0
  e - Armour           0.0   1.4   -2
  f - Dodging         16.2  17.7   +2    p - Evocations       5.1   5.0   +1
  g * Shields          9.4  15.6   -2    q - Stealth         11.0   8.9   +3

The attack spells I consistently use are flametongue (w/ battlesphere) for popcorn, force lance, OOD, spellforged servitor, sticky flame, and I've got Firestorm memorised, but it's 52% dark red at the moment. Without the shield it's probably around 35%, but I just love the extra AC and SH for situations where I get stuck in melee and have to rely on my amazing +8 demon blade of pain.

I wish I could find a better piece of armour, but I've only found two unrand leathers and they were both just +rC. Thank God for the hat of the Alchemist

What else should I be doing to survive?

# ? Jul 9, 2017 17:37

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

It's not much of a caster if you're lugging that long blade around AND have the training to use it well. That's hybrid thinking!

If you want to continue using that blade and eschew casting more than your initial couple turns before they reach melee range then you're going to want Necromancy so that pain brand is actually doing something. And organize your blaster spells for your Spellforged Servitor to be your aimbot, so things like Iron Shot or LCS are next steps if they can be cast at <50% failure rate. And either forgo Battlesphere altogether (to make it work efficiently you'd need a low MP long range spell that has a tendency to be low damage, which doesn't synergize well with your Servitor) or switch out Flametongue for Magic Missile because the latter can't miss and is longer range.

Switch out the amulet for something else when you've got a staff of energy; it's use is not particularly strong when your Spellcasting is making your level 4 magic spells hungerless and mitigating higher levels pretty well.

# ? Jul 9, 2017 18:19

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Streak update:
Died on the third character, the Halfling Assassin of Dithmenos. Reason? Underestimating a merfolk aquamancer, getting hit for 32 HP with throw icicle, and dying. AKA: Stupidity. No need for it to have been so deadly.

# ? Jul 9, 2017 21:14

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

I think you wanna dump battlesphere after lair branches, to be honest. Especially if you have servitor. Sticky flame will also drop off, especially when you have a good melee weapon.

Do you have a bolt spell or fireball? Would be worth grabbing.
A bolt or fireball+iron shot+servitor is all you need to win the game.

# ? Jul 9, 2017 22:50

Princey: Mar 22, 2013

If I want to take Qazlal for a spin, what are some good/fun combos to use?

# ? Jul 10, 2017 01:00

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Princey posted:

If I want to take Qazlal for a spin, what are some good/fun combos to use?

Vine stalker whatever is a good pick. Their constant regen means that they can keep on fighting the endless reinforcements Qazlal inevitably draws towards you.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 01:06

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

I forgot I do have fireball, but I don't have iron shot or LCD or a bolt spell. I did just find a book on U2 that has bolt of magma, but yeah I've been severely underestimating how much melee strength I do have. I'm thinking since I'm only doing 3 runes, I'm going to give firestorm a break and just learn BoM, try to isolate every big monster encounter to 1 or 2 on 1, charge up the servitor for each one, try to keep enemies at bay with force lance and plink in a few OODs of my own, and use melee for all the minor threats.

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to try to clear one floor of depths or vaults a night. And maybe I should do slime instead of V5. I just don't see how I can handle vaults 5 with a caster that only has 10 AC.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 05:54

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

so uh is it a bug that you can't force-cast poisonous vapors on a square you know has an invisible monster

cuz that's some bullshit

# ? Jul 10, 2017 18:20

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

Princey posted:

If I want to take Qazlal for a spin, what are some good/fun combos to use?

Play a Hill Orc or Minotaur, pick up a broad axe and a big rear end shield and put on the first amulet of reflection you find. HO probably better than Mi because of the +3 invocations apt.

Formicid is outstanding for this as well but Fo and Qaz make for a rough time in places like Abyss and Zot. I usually do Oka or Gozag with Fo because it sucks to not find anything better than a buckler before vaults.

Ds can be awesome with Qaz depending on the muts and has a high invocations apt.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 19:14

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

pathetic little tramp posted:

I forgot I do have fireball, but I don't have iron shot or LCD or a bolt spell. I did just find a book on U2 that has bolt of magma, but yeah I've been severely underestimating how much melee strength I do have. I'm thinking since I'm only doing 3 runes, I'm going to give firestorm a break and just learn BoM, try to isolate every big monster encounter to 1 or 2 on 1, charge up the servitor for each one, try to keep enemies at bay with force lance and plink in a few OODs of my own, and use melee for all the minor threats.

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to try to clear one floor of depths or vaults a night. And maybe I should do slime instead of V5. I just don't see how I can handle vaults 5 with a caster that only has 10 AC.

Get a staff of fire or conjuration and use that when you are casting spells. Get firestorm online without the shield, you have a robe and a ring of wizardry and you are a DEFE of Vehumet. You are insane to not get it online ASAP, especially since you have no bolts and no earth spells so your mana efficiency and killing speed are both poo poo compared to what they could be.

Firestorm is incredibly powerful and the conjurations will improve your OOD, Force Lance, and Servitor. Once you get it online you can swap to a buckler, train shields to 15 pretty quickly nuking things with firestorm, then put the shield back on.

You should get iron shot or LCS, hopefully you will find books, with about 10-12 Earth. I can't see your spells but eventually dump fireball when you get bolt of fire and otherwise trim down your spell list so your servitor is mainly casting Force Lance, OOD, Iron Shot/LCS.

I would get at least 10-12 evocations for the staff of energy. It's hard to die as a DEFE if you have firestorm, servitor, a staff of energy, and a few blink scrolls or cblink. Generally you can channel and get servitor out and that gives you time to channel up more MP.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 19:22

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Does LCS still miss constantly or did its accuracy get bumped? Because I used to get it all the time until I realised I was throwing mana and spell points away on something that appeared to rarely make contact with the enemy compared to ka-boom-dead firestorm.

EDIT: Also, what do people like to do when you get a servitor going? Do you immediately forget all but your most powerful spells so that your dude can start blasting them?

FulsomFrank fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Jul 12, 2017

# ? Jul 11, 2017 15:44

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

LCS is still hot trash iirc, redeemed only by being so boring that nobody wants to cut it.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 23:19

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

DsBe sitting on two runes (Shoals/Snake). I kinda want to try extended but I'm not sure this character has the oomph. Can't do a char dump right now but I'll give you the highlights:

Mutation set is Antennae 1, talons 3, large bone plates 3, cold resistance 2, MR 1, nightstalker 3, regen 1, robust 1, spiny 2.

I haven't seen a single executioners axe the whole game. My best weapon is a battleaxe with chop, MR+. Of course "Brilliance" showed up too but gently caress you demonspawn.

I do have GDA although I haven't put any +'s on it yet; should I? Its that or CPA.

I also have a zigg to try, what should I be worried about there as a troglodyte? How about extended? Whats the berserker strat for V:5?

e: Went back through the shops and bought a randart great mace with +5, Vamp, rElec, Dex+2. So I'm using that now.

There is also a randart PDA I'm tempted to buy but it would wipe out most of my gold. Thoughts?

vulturesrow fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jul 12, 2017

# ? Jul 12, 2017 19:13

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

vulturesrow posted:

DsBe sitting on two runes (Shoals/Snake). I kinda want to try extended but I'm not sure this character has the oomph. Can't do a char dump right now but I'll give you the highlights:

Mutation set is Antennae 1, talons 3, large bone plates 3, cold resistance 2, MR 1, nightstalker 3, regen 1, robust 1, spiny 2.

I haven't seen a single executioners axe the whole game. My best weapon is a battleaxe with chop, MR+. Of course "Brilliance" showed up too but gently caress you demonspawn. I do have GDA although I haven't put any +'s on it yet; should I? Its that or CPA.

I also have a zigg to try, what should I be worried about there as a troglodyte? How about extended? Whats the berserker strat for V:5?

e: Went back through the shops and bought a randart great mace with +5, Vamp, rElec, Dex+2. So I'm using that now. There is also a randart PDA I'm tempted to buy but it would wipe out most of my gold. Thoughts?

Is there anything else you're saving up for? I'd buy that PDA in a heartbeat to see what it's got going for it. With my luck it'd be poo poo and I'd be out the thousand something, but I'm sure you'd be more fortunate.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 20:05

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

FulsomFrank posted:

Is there anything else you're saving up for? I'd buy that PDA in a heartbeat to see what it's got going for it. With my luck it'd be poo poo and I'd be out the thousand something, but I'm sure you'd be more fortunate.

Well that character is no longer with us. gently caress Slime Pits forever. Worst lair branch. I hate it more than shoals.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 20:23

LogicNinja: Jan 21, 2011; ...the blur blurs blurringly across the blurred blur in a blur of blurring blurriness that blurred...

vulturesrow posted:

Well that character is no longer with us. gently caress Slime Pits forever. Worst lair branch. I hate it more than shoals.

It's the Slime Pits, not the Slime Tops.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 20:36

vulturesrow: Sep 25, 2011; _{Always gotta pay it forward.}

Nice one. Anyhow, I finally got around to installing .20. Any consensus on the best blaster start now?

# ? Jul 12, 2017 20:40

Eela6: May 25, 2007; Shredded Hen

vulturesrow posted:

Nice one. Anyhow, I finally got around to installing .20. Any consensus on the best blaster start now?

DeFe is still the best IMO. Some people prefer Dr or Ho for a little more of a HP cushion.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 20:47

LogicNinja: Jan 21, 2011; ...the blur blurs blurringly across the blurred blur in a blur of blurring blurriness that blurred...

vulturesrow posted:

Nice one. Anyhow, I finally got around to installing .20. Any consensus on the best blaster start now?

It's DEFe now that Cj has been brutally murdered for no reason.

Substitute DE with less-casty, tougher races to preference.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 20:54

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

Thanks for the help, finally got a caster win, a DEFE who escaped with 4 runes. I grabbed the 3 Lair runes and the Abyssal. The Abyss was a loving nightmare as a caster, I was constantly out of MP because I'd found no way to channel MP reliably and kept crippling enemies without killing them meaning no Vehu MP on kill because I tried not to use firestorm for the noise factor.

Burned through all my potions of heal wounds, and lucked into the hive vault, otherwise I'd have left as soon as I found an exit.

But what am I doing wrong about channeling? What should I have found? Is there a better way or do you just run out of magic as you get swarmed by abyss monsters? I had a crystal ball of energy but my evo was too pitiful for it to ever work I guess.

# ? Jul 13, 2017 08:23

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

vulturesrow posted:

Nice one. Anyhow, I finally got around to installing .20. Any consensus on the best blaster start now?

I still say Tengu elemental caster of your choice (probably AE now that Cj is not that great) of Vehumet.

# ? Jul 13, 2017 08:45

Goffer: Apr 4, 2007; "..."

The Hero. Dithmenos providing a purple umbra. Just have to get some better boots than my current gumboots and I'll have the most badass looking character ever.

# ? Jul 16, 2017 10:50

Matty: Oct 29, 2010

I'm still playing on 0.19 because i don't see a single thing or feature i like about 0.20.

# ? Jul 16, 2017 11:34

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

pathetic little tramp posted:

Thanks for the help, finally got a caster win, a DEFE who escaped with 4 runes. I grabbed the 3 Lair runes and the Abyssal. The Abyss was a loving nightmare as a caster, I was constantly out of MP because I'd found no way to channel MP reliably and kept crippling enemies without killing them meaning no Vehu MP on kill because I tried not to use firestorm for the noise factor.

Burned through all my potions of heal wounds, and lucked into the hive vault, otherwise I'd have left as soon as I found an exit.

But what am I doing wrong about channeling? What should I have found? Is there a better way or do you just run out of magic as you get swarmed by abyss monsters? I had a crystal ball of energy but my evo was too pitiful for it to ever work I guess.

Speaking as someone who doesn't play fragile deep elf casters, bashing things with a stick is very effective source of mp on kills with Vehumet. More practical info, first part lifted from the bots.
Channeling: The staff succeeds (evo+11)/40, 50 hunger, 1d3 MP
If you're fighting silently, then you should have time to channel back up with a decent amount of skill, at least nine if not. Hunger's no concern in the abyss if you have a large food stockpile, gourmand, or necromutation. Secret technique for reducing the hassle: Press 0 to queue up multiple channels.
Amulet of mana regeneration: Increases MP regeneration by 50% of {base mp regeneration}. Has a warm-up time so you can't swap to it in a pinch. In trunk gives 0.25 mana per turn instead; this is an increase when your maxmp is 35 or less.
Not quite enough to sustain fighting, but works nicely combined with running away.
Ambrosia: Gives 3-10 turns of confusion and an HP/MP recovery effect (3-5 of each per turn).
Obviously a limited resource, can help you recover in a nice corner
Sublimation of Blood: Converts HP into MP. Each MP point costs up to 4 (avg. 1 + 18/pow) HP. There is a 6/pow chance to stop after each MP point. Never drains more than 90% of current HP.
The greater your spellpower, the less HP each MP costs. Combines well with regeneration, especially if you don't let yourself get too low. Does not play well with necromutation
Crystal Ball of Energy: Evoke for MP. Gives (9+Evocations)/2 MP (average!). 5.5% chance to drain all your MP, 1% chance to drain 1-3 INT and 3% chance to confuse you for 11-20 turns at max Evoc. The closer you are to 0 MP, the higher your chance to fail. Lower Evoc, lower success! Must have 2+ Evo to use.
Just don't. Really, don't. Even under optimal circumstances it can screw you over. I've used a crystal ball of energy to great effects with Vehumet, Ashenzari, and Zin before; abyss is the worst place to use it, followed by pandemonium, and not counting ziggurats.

Overall, I highly suggest more firestorm, screw the noise, interspersed with occasional bouts of just running away. In early abyss, a silent approach may work. When you get deeper, so many monsters spawn that stealth is underwhelming unless you've gone hard into it. Just Firestorm (TM). Alternate Plan A: Sublimation of Blood, Regeneration, care and alternate methods when reserves get too low. Alternate Plan B: Necromutation and a staff of channeling. Alternate Plan C: Amulet of mana regeneration, staff of power, flight/boots of running, stealth, and excess ?teleportation and !ambrosia.

And even if you're a weak Deep Elf, engaging some of the least dangerous enemies with a staff of fire/earth/etc can help you a lot while putting out a surprising amount of damage since monster resistances in Abyss are a lot less comprehensive than Pandemonium or the hells.

# ? Jul 16, 2017 17:31

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 15, 2024 09:32

Fhqwhgads: Jul 18, 2003; I AM THE ONLY ONE IN THIS GAME WHO GETS LAID

I'm on a roll with a TrBe who was gifted a +6 Demon Whip of Freezing very early in the game, which I quickly made +9 (because I'm going claws and don't have anything else to spend scrolls on). The thing is, I really wanted to go claws on this run, but how can I say no to a +9 dwhip? It was only skill 12 to max it out, and berserkers don't have much to spend skills on. At what unarmed level will my claws be better than this, if at all?

Edit: Also, Troll leather for the regen, or Acid Dragon scales for the AC? Those are my only two armor options right now.

Fhqwhgads fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jul 16, 2017

# ? Jul 16, 2017 22:28

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

«‹›243 »