|
Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| B |
|
77 | 25.50% |
| K |
|
160 | 52.98% |
| M |
|
65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
|
WhiskeyJuvenile posted:harris is a boring centrist who has nothing but her gender, race, and age to suggest her worked for king hussein, who got elected twice! off that WampaLord posted:Like, if she's a "bad dem" then we really are hosed. warren is a bad dem and you really are hosed. there's no one who can beat Trump in 2020.
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 05:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 13:56 |
|
|
I'd suggest "America First" and going back to the John F. Kennedy sense of the idea, putting your country before yourself. Instead of using it to mean "America has to be out for itself, gently caress the international community, let's do realpolitik and help Middle Eastern countries bomb their neighbors if it's what's good for our oil supply, gently caress the environment and DRILL". Play up every alternative sense of the phrase for contrast, like "first in reading, first in math, first in science". At this point the GOP has a monopoly on slogans with America in the name galenanorth fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Jul 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 05:47
|
|
|
C. Everett Koop posted:warren is a bad dem and you really are hosed. there's no one who can beat Trump in 2020. I think it would be winnable expect for the fact that Democrats would absolutely assume they would win by default (they won't).
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 09:08
|
|
|
galenanorth posted:I'd suggest "America First" and going back to the John F. Kennedy sense of the idea, putting your country before yourself. Instead of using it to mean "America has to be out for itself, gently caress the international community, let's do realpolitik and help Middle Eastern countries bomb their neighbors if it's what's good for our oil supply, gently caress the environment and DRILL". Play up every alternative sense of the phrase for contrast, like "first in reading, first in math, first in science". gently caress this nonsense. This belief that the problem is just how things are framed is what has gotten the democrats to where they are today.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 10:08
|
|
|
Jizz Festival posted:gently caress this nonsense. This belief that the problem is just how things are framed is what has gotten the democrats to where they are today.  FDR by Jean Edward Smith posted:Impatient with abstract ideas, he adroitly translated contentious concepts into phrases his audience could relate to - a preview of the the mature Franklin D. Roosevelt. No one was better than FDR at simplifying a complex issue and translating it into words the average American could understand. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Jul 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 10:20
|
|
|
Good thing we have an alternative universe where FDR didn't worry about that stuff to compare ourselves to, or else that would prove absolutely nothing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 10:36
|
|
|
The Kingfish posted:We have to go to war against the DNC. There's literally no other way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 14:57
|
|
|
Then there is the age old question of going to war against a party that is already marginal to begin with.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 15:24
|
|
|
Democrats 2018: We (sort of) fight Trump, and that's about it Democrats 2018: Hillary Did Nothing Wrong Democrats 2018: Marginally less awful than Republicans Democrats 2018: We still have no idea why Trump's slogan was successful How am I supposed to choose when they're all so loving good!?
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 16:04
|
|
|
Not sure how much this matters but Tom Perez is such an absolutely miserable communicator. He was on Meet the Press and couldn't put together a coherent sentence.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 16:19
|
|
|
Somehow "PERSIST& RESIST" is the best available option.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 16:23
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:Not sure how much this matters but Tom Perez is such an absolutely miserable communicator. He was on Meet the Press and couldn't put together a coherent sentence. this is the most ridiculous thing. it was obvious from day one that he was not well suited to this task, but he was put in as DNC chair anyway cause obama just had to make sure bernie didn't get any more influence.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 16:28
|
|
|
So, what's your plan, vote the accelerationist ticket so we can fast-forward to food riots? How many of you have written your representatives in Congress to end SNAP/EBT? That's $70,000,000,000 annually that could be diverted into tax cuts for the top 0.5%. Be The Change You Want To See In The World!
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
Condiv posted:this is the most ridiculous thing. it was obvious from day one that he was not well suited to this task, but he was put in as DNC chair anyway cause obama just had to make sure bernie didn't get any more influence. It didn't have anything to do with how Obama feels about Bernie personally. He wanted to keep control of how the DNC spends its funds in races. e: Not that that makes it okay, I just think it's a more plausible motivation. Majorian fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jul 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 17:19
|
|
|
Well, I can already see how 2018's going to go.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 17:25
|
|
|
RedSpider posted:The Dem 2018 midterm slogan might as well be 'America Is Already Great' at this rate. The week before the election NPR had a stringer traveling up the east coast doing interviews in swing districts and one of them was a working single mother who had a two hour commute each way to her WalMart location, and whose current life goals were limited to "pray for her transfer to a closer location goes through" and asked her if she thought america was great. She immediately responded with "no, no it's not" and all that was missing was a looney tunes car crash sound effect as the reporter had to trash and improv the entire rest of her interview because this impoverished young black mom who checked off so many spaces on the Hillary Clinton IdPol Bingo Card trashed the entire narrative the piece had been building up to then in a sentence. I don't know if the blatant fix on even public media is getting worse, or if I'm getting more fed up with it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 18:58
|
|
|
The Bold Kobold posted:Well, I can already see how 2018's going to go. Nah, these are poo poo, but the election's a year and change out. We just need to organize and fight against stupid cutesy centrist poo poo like this. readingatwork posted:How am I supposed to choose when they're all so loving good!? Ooh, ooh, I know! Use all of them at once and confuse the message even further! 
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 19:32
|
|
|
What Difference Does It Make? DEMS 2018
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 20:18
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:What Difference Does It Make? "Tired of dying for really stupid and unavoidable reasons? Vote Dem, fuckwads."
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 20:19
|
|
|
Majorian posted:"Tired of dying for really stupid and unavoidable reasons? Vote Dem, fuckwads.*" *voting dems will not actually stop you from dying for really stupid and unavoidable reasons
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 21:06
|
|
|
Condiv posted:*voting dems will not actually stop you from dying for really stupid and unavoidable reasons And voting for Trump will not bring coal jobs back, and voting for Gary Johnson will not stop the U.S. from getting involved in dumb wars, etc etc etc. The Dems need to get more comfortable with making big promises.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 21:19
|
|
|
Majorian posted:And voting for Trump will not bring coal jobs back, and voting for Gary Johnson will not stop the U.S. from getting involved in dumb wars, etc etc etc. well, and showing that they mean to follow through with them too. no more "i'll march with unions if they're in trouble" and ignoring unions after you've been elected. no more saying you support single payer and then blocking single payer bills from even being debated. we need good dems who will not only talk the talk, but walk the walk
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 23:11
|
|
|
Condiv posted:well, and showing that they mean to follow through with them too. no more "i'll march with unions if they're in trouble" and ignoring unions after you've been elected. no more saying you support single payer and then blocking single payer bills from even being debated. we need good dems who will not only talk the talk, but walk the walk Hell, just getting to the point where they can honestly say "I tried" would help the dems tremendously. I don't think Obama would get the beating he gets from progressives if he didn't actively try to sabotage things behind the scenes and play eighth-dimensional chess with the Republicans. (No, see, if I nominate a centrist like Merrick Garland, that Orrin Hatch called "a fine man", they'll look like the assholes for shirking their constitutional duty and I won't have to say anything that could hurt my approval rate )
Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jul 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 23:57
|
|
|
Call Me Charlie posted:Hell, just getting to the point where they can honestly say "I tried" would help the dems tremendously. I don't think Obama would get the beating he gets from progressives if he didn't actively try to sabotage things behind the scenes and play eighth-dimensional chess with the Republicans. I obviously agree with your overall point, but it's good to keep in mind that most Americans, most Dems, and even most progressives, believe that Obama tried his hardest. They may be wrong, but there's a reason why he got elected president, and Hillary Clinton didn't: because he could convince people that he was trying.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
Willie Tomg posted:The week before the election NPR had a stringer traveling up the east coast doing interviews in swing districts and one of them was a working single mother who had a two hour commute each way to her WalMart location, and whose current life goals were limited to "pray for her transfer to a closer location goes through" and asked her if she thought america was great. She immediately responded with "no, no it's not" and all that was missing was a looney tunes car crash sound effect as the reporter had to trash and improv the entire rest of her interview because this impoverished young black mom who checked off so many spaces on the Hillary Clinton IdPol Bingo Card trashed the entire narrative the piece had been building up to then in a sentence. Its more that its generally never been good and that as people realize that neoliberalism is loving us results in the neoliberalism of NPR news becoming utterly impossible to stomach.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
Majorian posted:And voting for Trump will not bring coal jobs back, and voting for Gary Johnson will not stop the U.S. from getting involved in dumb wars, etc etc etc. The cynicism of the Hillaryman, everyone
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 01:42
|
|
|
The whole thing with being from one of the lovely parties with no hope of leading the country is that they can promise pie-in-the-sky bullshit to low information voters. Being in a real party (which is for all their faults is only the Democrats at this point) requires results.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 02:09
|
|
|
call to action posted:The cynicism of the Hillaryman, everyone You shouldn't use words you don't know the meaning of, little troll. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 02:12
|
|
|
Majorian posted:I obviously agree with your overall point, but it's good to keep in mind that most Americans, most Dems, and even most progressives, believe that Obama tried his hardest. They may be wrong, but there's a reason why he got elected president, and Hillary Clinton didn't: because he could convince people that he was trying. Most dems believe that campaign Obama was the real Obama and it was just those darn obstructionist Republicans that stopped him from doing all the things he said. Hillary tried to thread the same needle but people obviously didn't believe her since there was a long, documented, history of her behaving a certain way that flew in the face of what she was campaigning on. I bet if you polled most dems on the following, the majority of them wouldn't have a clue. quote:Obama said he'd try for single payer healthcare and have the debate for it in public. First thing off the table in closed door discussions with insurance companies was single payer/public option. or, you know, actively try to defend him like this guy did quote:- [on Obama cutting a deal to kill the public option] This one I'll kind of give you, but Obamacare is still much, much better than nothing, if for no other reason that it outlawed recission, etc. People have at least some protections they didn't have before.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 02:19
|
|
|
Call Me Charlie posted:Most dems believe that campaign Obama was the real Obama and it was just those darn obstructionist Republicans that stopped him from doing all the things he said. Hillary tried to thread the same needle but people obviously didn't believe her since there was a long, documented, history of her behaving a certain way that flew in the face of what she was campaigning on. Yeah, well, there's your coalition laid out before you, though. Any left-wing candidate is going to need those voters to win, just as any centrist Democratic candidate is going to need at least some left-populist votes to win.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 02:23
|
|
|
Polling bears out that the vast majority of Democratic base still really likes Obama.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 02:23
|
|
|
Majorian posted:I obviously agree with your overall point, but it's good to keep in mind that most Americans, most Dems, and even most progressives, believe that Obama tried his hardest. They may be wrong, but there's a reason why he got elected president, and Hillary Clinton didn't: because he could convince people that he was trying. You know what it's called when you try and don't succeed? Failure. Hussein was a failure as president.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 02:57
|
|
|
C. Everett Koop posted:You know what it's called when you try and don't succeed? You're a failure as a gimmick poster.  (seriously, though, you're not funny)
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 03:11
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:Polling bears out that the vast majority of Democratic base still really likes Obama. Polling bears out that a side thread on a dying forum is full of people with extreme views, news at 11. As someone who campaigned for Bernie here in Seattle, and would have at the time preferred Bernie won the primary, the solution really isn't as simple as "pivot lefter dumbass.". From going to rallies here in Seattle since November, I've noticed 2 things. - There is a LOT of hatred at Bernie now from establishment Dems. I've had a lot of people say Bernie cost the Dems the election, and they will NEVER support his policies now. It's tribal bullshit, but it's tribal bullshit that needs to be addressed. - I've seen basically everyone that joined the party with Obama leave the party over the last few months. Coworkers that I've known for 10-20 years and have always been available to talk politics have suddenly told me they aren't registered to vote anymore, and they can't care anymore. Pretty much everyone under 25 has stopped giving a poo poo about politics because "we" aren't winners anymore. There is no cohesive Democrat party to unite behind, which of course there isn't. The Dems are a waste of a party. The thing I'm most curious about is how does a more leftist leaning/socialist candidate make it through the primaries, let alone win an election? Bernie got thrashed in the South, but also lost in Cali/New York which are two huge centrist Dem states. Lo and behold, I'm seeing a massive chunk of "gently caress socialists, you loving lost us the election" tribal bullshit coming from Cali and New York. It's also spreading to Seattle, which was Bernie country. The centrists outnumber the socialists in the party, and it looks to be almost 80/20 in how much the outnumber the socialists. At a certain point the Dems are just pandering to their base ( albeit they are still a wreck of a party leadership wise. ). Would a strong leftist candidate even be able to appeal to the centrists while also opening up pathways into Republican voter pools? Because being from Mississippi and knowing that rural/white attitude, the only reason my dad and people like him voted for Bernie is because he was a populist, not because he agreed with his policies. We can't rely on every socialist candidate to be a populist ( and we can likely count on people to be a bit disheartened/burned out on populism going forward thanks to Trump. ). I always thought ( and hoped ) that socialist ideals would happen through layers. Obama wasn't the President I wanted, but he was as left as America was willing to accept. Hillary wasn't the President I wanted, but she was electable, unlike Bernie. I hoped that after 8 years of Hillary maybe we'd get someone a little more left. After them we'd get another candidate a little more left. And over time we could slowly but surely move the centrist tribal types to realize this more left stuff was actually great. And hopefully somewhere in there, the Dems would realize they need to start headhunting people from the regions to go back to the regions to run as representatives, rather then sending yet another kid from California in a suit that tried to run a Senate race in a Representative race. Instead we are here, and what the gently caress do we do with here? Knowing my family, knowing my community back home, if you ran Bernie 2.0, even as a populist they'd laugh him off. That entire "core" of voters that seemed reliable for Bernie is gone. We've gone into tribal civil war proverbially, and the centrist neoliberal types seem to think socialist/leftist types are to blame for Hillary losing, so they'll vote against any new Bernie type. Then I have this thread and a bunch of other twitter types with a decent amount of heft saying they refuse to vote for neoliberals again, so they best start moving left in a hurry. It seems the Dem party is at a pretty major impasse. Top it off with a whole bunch of losers fatigue and a party that seems to have the leadership and growth potential of a floppy pool tube, and what's the actual honest move forward for even neoliberalism going into 2018. Let alone socialist/leftist policies. C. Everett Koop posted:You know what it's called when you try and don't succeed? Perception matters, and the perception among all the Dems I've talked to has been that Obama is the best President we've ever had.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 03:16
|
|
|
C. Everett Koop posted:You know what it's called when you try and don't succeed? Oh man, it's getting a little Talk Radioish in here.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 03:18
|
|
|
RedSpider posted:Oh man, it's getting a little Talk Radioish in here. I'm old let me talk about what I know.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 03:41
|
|
|
Rookersh posted:Polling bears out that a side thread on a dying forum is full of people with extreme views, news at 11. So wait the party shouldn't move left because Seattle centrists hate Sanders? I mean at a certain point it makes sense that upper-middle-class centrists would hate a socialist, especially once he was successful and their natural candidate crash and burned in the GE. Let's be honest here and Seattle is much more like SF and NYC than it isn't, and if anything has had a serious libertarian edge for a while. I think the reason Bernie won so big in Seattle was more from a mobilization of the left to caucus for him, than it was from centrists voters coming to his side. If anything you more or less came to the same conclusion: there is a major impasse and the only solution is a genuine conflict over the future of the party. Another centrist like Obama won ran as a populist isn't actually going to fix the issues with the party (especially since Obama more or less worked off far more off perception more than action). (Also, I don't buy 80% of the party is socially liberal/fiscally conservative centrists either outside major coastal cities.) Ardennes fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Jul 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 08:14
|
|
|
You heard it here first - if Bernie were nominated, CA and NY would have gone red. And we may have lost all those Southern states (by, uh, even more than we did anyways?). edit: One of the main points to the "Bernie would have won" argument (which isn't even something I really subscribe to, though I do think he would have probably done better ) is that Clinton did the best in states that weren't as important in the general election. Also you're assuming a significant number of more centrist Democrats will stop voting Democrat if the party moves to the left. Keep in mind that what you see at Democratic rallies is not representative of the general electorate. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Jul 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 08:26
|
|
|
Dude I see Bernie 2016 bumper stickers all over the place in Seattle and we got a socialist on the city council. gently caress off with this "Seattle is a hotbed of centrism" bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 08:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 13:56 |
|
|
Kilroy posted:Dude I see Bernie 2016 bumper stickers all over the place in Seattle and we got a socialist on the city council. gently caress off with this "Seattle is a hotbed of centrism" bullshit. Admittedly, I do think Seattle has a very large techno-libertarian contingent as well. I can see the same thing happening in Portland.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 08:51
|
|