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So they play team yankee in 15mm here. The store owner says they play v4 but everyone has the v3 rules and has v3 armies. I bought the v4 starter and he gave me a copy of the 1939-1941 and 1944-45 rulebook.
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Jul 9, 2017 00:27
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Well, V3 armies are nominally viable in EW and LW, at least. In practise, lol what's balance, but still.
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Jul 9, 2017 00:36
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So I'm thinking of getting the flames of war Rommel kit as well as some PSC stuff. I'm also trading my british tanks for a friend's german tanks from the starters. That'll start me off with 7 Pz IIIs, 5 Pz IVs, 3 Pz IIs, a company of infantry with heavy weapon and pak support, and 2 88s. Can build this as a starting 100pt V4 list: HQ: 2 Up-armored Panzer IIIs Pz III mixed platoon: 2 short barreled Pz IIIs, 1 long barreled, 1 7.5 Pz IV platoon: 2 short 75s, 1 long 75 Pz II platoon: 3 Pz IIs Rifle platoon: 3 mg34 teams, 1 ATR team, 1 mg34 HMG team, and an 80mm mortar Heavy AA: 2 88s
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Jul 9, 2017 04:38
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So what games don't do hosed up soviets, or do I need to learn russian?
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Jul 9, 2017 04:52
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Bolt Action is pretty good about having a good variety of interesting choices for Soviets that are just as powerful and as capable as other nations' units. Granted, their special ability is "get an extra squad for free," which isn't ideal, but compared to FoW's "No Veterans Ever" and loving Hens and Chicks, I'll loving take it.
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Jul 9, 2017 05:00
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Does FoW really not have a Guards division somewhere?
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Jul 9, 2017 05:03
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Oh, they have Guards Divisions. Guards Divisions actually make up about half the formations you can actually take, as Battlefront was too loving lazy to research ~actual units~ outside of a very select handful. For almost every formation in the game, there's an option to take Confident Trained Red Army units, and Fearless Trained Guards units. That's the only difference. No veterancy. No getting away from the awful Hens and Chicks, outside of gimped not-veteran "Hero of the Soviet Union" lists. On the whole, it's pretty awful. You can still have fun and make cool and powerful lists with Soviets, but they're hella-limited and get objectively an awful, awful raw deal from BF in terms of list diversity.
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Jul 9, 2017 05:16
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The new Red Thunder expansion for Team Yankee is out and the Soviets get some nice high end toys and cheap filler. The T-64 is the big headliner with an Advanced Stabilizer like the decadent western imperialist tanks have, and an option to equip a gun-launched ATGM with a 48" range. BTR-60 mounted Motor Rifles are the other big addition - the BTRs themselves only standout qualities are cheapness and a good road dash movement distance, but you can add a pair of ATGM teams to the company which each have a halted ROF of 3, which makes it seem like BTR motor-rifles are a good choice for static defense. You can also add a Strela team and an AGS-17 team. There are three BRDM variants - recon, SAM and ATGM - and like the BTRs they're cheap and fast on roads. The Spandrel ATGM BRDM has a really short minimum range so you'd think you could try some interesting close-range ambushes but with the 5+ Soviet skill roll it seems unlikely. The SA-8 Gecko is the most expensive and capable SAM system in the game. A 72" range, ROF 3 and a firepower of 3+ means that western sky cancer has nowhere to hide. The MT-LB Storm is your premium ATGM platform with a massive 56" range. The 2S3 Acacia is a 152mm Howitzer with an option for a top-attack laser guided round like the US howitzer has. Its more expensive than the 2S1 Carnation but has a better firepower roll. On top of that the BMP Motor Rifles can now add an AGS-17 team for a point.
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Jul 9, 2017 05:20
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Bolt Action is pretty good about having a good variety of interesting choices for Soviets that are just as powerful and as capable as other nations' units. Granted, their special ability is "get an extra squad for free," which isn't ideal, but compared to FoW's "No Veterans Ever" and loving Hens and Chicks, I'll loving take it. Yeah the "extra conscript squad" is decent mechanically but a little lazy, but I don't feel like there's many squads I can't field something equivalent to in other armies or that outside of auto-taking the free rifle squad I am pidgeon holed into taking conscript dross. I could fill my poo poo with some pipe hitting siberian vets, vet tank riders, assault engineers with body armor and flamethrowers and have a probably ahistorical but badass bunch of Slavs. They made the naval.infantry p. Good too, stoked for my black tree black death mans tp arrive.
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Jul 9, 2017 05:26
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That's one of the (many) reasons why CoC is so cool - Soviet infantry is just as good as anybody else's (if a little less tactically flexible due to their doctrine), their artillery is aces, their scouts are loving awesome, and they have the cheapest snipers in the game. Also, tank-rider platoons are loving brutal.
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Jul 9, 2017 06:13
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I got the main rules for battlegroup for a browse and they seem good for Company level games, but I haven't looked at any of the required campaign supplements. http://www.beastsofwar.com/battlegroup/part-one-introduction-overview/
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Jul 9, 2017 06:29
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Yeah the "extra conscript squad" is decent mechanically but a little lazy, but I don't feel like there's many squads I can't field something equivalent to in other armies or that outside of auto-taking the free rifle squad I am pidgeon holed into taking conscript dross. I could fill my poo poo with some pipe hitting siberian vets, vet tank riders, assault engineers with body armor and flamethrowers and have a probably ahistorical but badass bunch of Slavs. They made the naval.infantry p. Good too, stoked for my black tree black death mans tp arrive. You can also take a free inexperienced SU 76 instead, which I would do every time if I owned that model. edit: it would also be nice if you could pay points to upgrade your free squad to regulars or vets, because you're right it is weird sometimes to have a squad of straight off the farm infantry if you're playing like, the assault on Berlin in '45 or something. Class Warcraft fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 07:59
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Oh, they have Guards Divisions. Guards Divisions actually make up about half the formations you can actually take, as Battlefront was too loving lazy to research ~actual units~ outside of a very select handful. Hey, now, now, don't be harsh, they didn't just do a handful of actual units... They didn't do any, since the only list that represents a specific formation is explicitly a "based on a true story" thing based on Penalty Strike. Otherwise, they have no lists that're specific to anywhere; everything is a grab-bag to cover any unit anywhere. Relatedly it's always bothered me there's a Colours of War statement that's something like "Soviet camoflage and iconography isn't very well documented, so you can make it up". Motherfucker I'm paying you to do that documenting. Polikarpov posted:The new Red Thunder expansion for Team Yankee is out and the Soviets get some nice high end toys and cheap filler. The T-64 is the big headliner with an Advanced Stabilizer like the decadent western imperialist tanks have, and an option to equip a gun-launched ATGM with a 48" range. I think it's worth noting the ATGMs are only AT 19 (unless they're different from other spandrels) so they're going to be of limited use against NATO MBTs.
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Jul 9, 2017 12:25
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spectralent posted:
The T-64s ATGMs have AT 21 and the MT-LB Storm has AT 23.
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Jul 9, 2017 12:34
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Cassa posted:So what games don't do hosed up soviets, or do I need to learn russian? I checked out A Fistful of TOWs' introductory rules a while ago. German units have a "quality rating" of 3+, while Soviet units have a "quality rating" of 5+. As far as I can tell, quality rating is mostly used as a save, where you roll at or higher your quality rating to ignore a hit. So Germans are twice as likely to shrug off hits.  Granted, this is from the very limited introductory rules. Maybe the full game has options to modify this rating, and the different ratings are just used in the intro to illustrate the difference. Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 13:08
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Cassa posted:So what games don't do hosed up soviets, or do I need to learn russian? CoC is pretty great, mostly by virtue of the system they use for lists. BA is probably second. Noe one - and I mean no one - gets commissars right.
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Jul 9, 2017 13:24
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spectralent posted:Hey, now, now, don't be harsh, they didn't just do a handful of actual units... Seriously, it's like Battlefront just stuck their head in their rear end and refuse to believe it's not the '80s anymore. We've had Soviet archive access for a goddamn quarter-century now, they literally have no excuse.
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Jul 9, 2017 13:40
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CoC is something I'm very keen to try, are there intro rules anywhere? In Bolt Action good for that sort of platoon level as well? To be 100% honest my dad's twisting my arm on this, he's stumbled upon Ali express' cheap 'lego' dudes and wants to have a lot of battles in and around our many many pieces.
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Jul 9, 2017 13:42
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Polikarpov posted:The T-64s ATGMs have AT 21 and the MT-LB Storm has AT 23. Yeah, but the BTR ATGM teams use spandrels, which are AT 19 unless that got buffed. AT 19 isn't very useful in blue-on-red unless you're fighting Leo spam.
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Jul 9, 2017 13:52
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Colonial Air Force posted:CoC is pretty great, mostly by virtue of the system they use for lists. BA is probably second. COC's Kursk campaign actually has pretty okay commissar rules - They remove a bit of shock, and none of that summary execution poo poo. Oh, Blitzkrieg Commander is also a good game which doesn't have a hateboner for the Red Army. Cassa posted:CoC is something I'm very keen to try, are there intro rules anywhere? In Bolt Action good for that sort of platoon level as well? No intro rules, but the authors do a video series where they run through a game and explain the core concepts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiT70m6CJO8&t=320s
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Jul 9, 2017 14:00
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Geisladisk posted:COC's Kursk campaign actually has pretty okay commissar rules - They remove a bit of shock, and none of that summary execution poo poo. I think I do recall that now that you mentioned it. Their other list(s) did have that, though. It's a lot easier to ignore that rule in CoC than anything else, too. Unfortunately for me, I find the rules too 'loose' for my tastes. That's likely a by-product of how I came to historicals, but it's a thing. So I just houserule stuff in BA.
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Jul 9, 2017 14:11
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FFoT uses companies for NATO and regiments for PACT/Arabs, similar to the difference between German platoons and Russian companies in FoW. Didn't look into WWII data in FFOT because there's a gently caress ton of rulesets for WWII vs. Cold War.
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Jul 9, 2017 14:12
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Colonial Air Force posted:Unfortunately for me, I find the rules too 'loose' for my tastes. That's likely a by-product of how I came to historicals, but it's a thing. So I just houserule stuff in BA. Our solution is to houserule the poo poo out of COC. It's practically a new game now. What historicals have tight rules? My biggest complaint with the genre is that historicals tend to be loosely written as hell.
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Jul 9, 2017 14:50
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Geisladisk posted:Our solution is to houserule the poo poo out of COC. It's practically a new game now. FoW used to be fairly exacting but you can now carry foxholes around with you when you move and this is going to go un-errata'd forever because it's silly so you shouldn't try it even if the rules let you. The biggest hole was probably the gun-tank rule, which was infamously unclear on exactly how it applied, but I feel like ruleswise it was otherwise relatively competent (helped by the fact the book was chock-full of examples).
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Jul 9, 2017 19:28
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Colonial Air Force posted:Unfortunately for me, I find the rules too 'loose' for my tastes. That's likely a by-product of how I came to historicals, but it's a thing. So I just houserule stuff in BA.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:54
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I was just about to say something like "why doesn't he just make a v2 casue I'd certainly buy the PDF." Then I realized that he probably still has copies from the previous printing run and understandably wouldn't do a full version update until said copies sell out. Maybe I should do my part and buy an actual book.
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Jul 9, 2017 22:41
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JcDent posted:The kit doesn't have berets and I don't think a Tommy would have been able to wear a beret without being tackled by a Para or a Marine.
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Jul 10, 2017 03:53
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So now the dust has settled with Sharp Practise 2, how's has it fallen? From liljonas, etc. I see that it's got some quirks and seems to be a fairly large-scale skirmish game. I'm looking to move house soon and coming to the realisation that I'm unlikely to have a spare 15' square room to sit my 8x4' board in the middle of.
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Jul 10, 2017 08:04
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Southern Heel posted:So now the dust has settled with Sharp Practise 2, how's has it fallen? From liljonas, etc. I see that it's got some quirks and seems to be a fairly large-scale skirmish game. I'm looking to move house soon and coming to the realisation that I'm unlikely to have a spare 15' square room to sit my 8x4' board in the middle of. My take on it, granted I've only played half a dozen games: Base system is good. Activation system is fun and make for tense and exciting gameplay. I like it more than CoC actually. You can get punked by luck, but it's not usually decisive. Some special rules, and the army list and point system, are wildly inbalanced. More so than CoC imho. Seriously, the british special rules are extremely fanboyish. A lot of games are decided by one side getting one or two volleys in at close range, or a well placed charge. Some will like this, some will not. The standard armies are a tad small, we like to play with at least 10+ units, as it gets more fun imho if you have at least 3-4 formations and a few units in each. Our solution is that I'm working on a sourcebook for 1812 with completely new army lists, to fix what I think is the biggest issue. We also did some rather minor houserules, and have tweaked the special rules a bit.
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Jul 10, 2017 10:55
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Class Warcraft posted:You can also take a free inexperienced SU 76 instead, which I would do every time if I owned that model. Which book lets you do this? I'm looking through the core and the armybook and can't find that option.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:33
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EdsTeioh posted:Which book lets you do this? I'm looking through the core and the armybook and can't find that option. Yeah it's not in Easy Army either. I'd certainly take that army especially if I'm doing a "March to Berlin" kind of list where my infantry squads are all like pipe-hitting tank riders on an IS-2 and Veteran Guards with necklaces of nazi ears.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:37
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EdsTeioh posted:Which book lets you do this? I'm looking through the core and the armybook and can't find that option. It's in the "Suggested Scenario Rules" section of the Armies of the Soviet Union book, page 61. quote:In any game set during the final year of the war from mid-1944 onwards, the Red Army player may subsitute the free inexperienced rifle squad gained through the 'Quantity has a quality all of its own' rule with either a free inexperienced SU-76, medium mortar, or ZiS-3 divisional gun
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Jul 10, 2017 16:40
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A free divisional gun? Heck yes. Due to what armies people tend to own/bring I end up against Americans a lot, since we're doing an alt-history Unthinkable type thing I think that qualifies as late war. 
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Jul 10, 2017 16:43
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:A free divisional gun? Operation Unthinkable scenarios? Then, my friend, you know what you must bring. 
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Jul 10, 2017 16:51
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Acebuckeye13 posted:It's in the "Suggested Scenario Rules" section of the Armies of the Soviet Union book, page 61. Oh, that's rad! Now I want to build up some Soviets for some early war business. Also, I really wish that Warlord put painting guides in the armybooks. I'm a decent painter, but some kind of color guide would be awesome.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:55
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Operation Unthinkable scenarios? Then, my friend, you know what you must bring. Is that the IS-3? Because I've given it some thought based on how much I end up fighting Yankee Capitalists who turned treacherous after I helped them bring the Fascists to heel!
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Jul 10, 2017 17:09
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That pike frontal glacis is love
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Jul 10, 2017 17:42
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EdsTeioh posted:Is anyone familiar with Johnny Reb? I found a ton of stuff for it an an antique store recently and am pondering getting it. Johnny Reb spent a good period of time as the go to set of ACW rules. Per BGG, it had three editions, you probably want John Hill's 3e, 'cause he does good rules. But cheap rules are cheap rules, and even 1e was playable enough to get a following. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4510/johnny-reb-iii
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Jul 10, 2017 17:47
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EdsTeioh posted:Oh, that's rad! Now I want to build up some Soviets for some early war business. Also, I really wish that Warlord put painting guides in the armybooks. I'm a decent painter, but some kind of color guide would be awesome. I was driving myself to fits looking for a decent rattlecan basecoat to represent soviet uniforms till I realized production chain issues meant they had trouble getting the color right tpo so I stopped worrying and picked a good enough khaki.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:50
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mllaneza posted:Johnny Reb spent a good period of time as the go to set of ACW rules. Per BGG, it had three editions, you probably want John Hill's 3e, 'cause he does good rules. But cheap rules are cheap rules, and even 1e was playable enough to get a following. Thanks for the response; I thought this was going to get buried. I remember seeing Johnny Reb a lot back in the late 80's a local comic and game shops, but didn't have any interest in ACW back then. I'm pretty sure the set in question has a full Confederate and Union army (100+ figures from what he's saying) and the ruleset. All painted and based for $150. Think I might grab it to use in Black Powder at least if JR isn't that great. EDIT: Pac-Manioc Root: Yeah, after doing as much historical modelling as I do, I really should just lighten up and get close as opposed to worrying too much. I DID find out though, that my entire German infantry are all Blitzkreig era figs. Is it a huge deal to use those in later war games? EdsTeioh fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 17:54
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