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Occasionally during work I open up the SE twitch stream and my day brightens by looking at the FF12 Remaster will be good.
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Jul 9, 2017 16:27
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| # ? May 26, 2024 01:00 |
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FF12 kills you during the tutorial*, so its the Demons Souls of the franchise. *I am aware this isnt what happens but the aftermath is poorly conveyed and most people who played the game assumed he died there
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Jul 9, 2017 16:31
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Barudak posted:FF12 kills you during the tutorial*, so its the Demons Souls of the franchise. Only if you're not paying attention, given that there's a cutscene shortly into the game where Vaan is visiting his traumatized brother who is recovering from the events of the prologue. Final Fantasy fans seem to have a really bad attention span given their confusion and misremembering Final Fantasy VII (granted the translation doesn't help), XII and XIII.
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Jul 9, 2017 16:44
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Wasn't there a thing that went around during FF12's launch, that Square-Enix surveyed a lot of girls walking around the city about what would get them interested in the next final fantasy game, and the answer they noticed most often was "if a pretty boy was in it"? And so Vaan was born 
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Jul 9, 2017 16:47
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Only if you're not paying attention, given that there's a cutscene shortly into the game where Vaan is visiting his traumatized brother who is recovering from the events of the prologue. Final Fantasy fans seem to have a really bad attention span given their confusion and misremembering Final Fantasy VII (granted the translation doesn't help), XII and XIII. I thought that was a flashback and Reks is barely mentioned and is never seen again so he might as well be dead.
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Jul 9, 2017 16:50
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Only if you're not paying attention, given that there's a cutscene shortly into the game where Vaan is visiting his traumatized brother who is recovering from the events of the prologue. Final Fantasy fans seem to have a really bad attention span given their confusion and misremembering Final Fantasy VII (granted the translation doesn't help), XII and XIII. I like FF12 a lot, that scene is legitimately really goddamn confusing and the way it's presented makes it seem like a dream sequence.
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Jul 9, 2017 16:50
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Cephas posted:Wasn't there a thing that went around during FF12's launch, that Square-Enix surveyed a lot of girls walking around the city about what would get them interested in the next final fantasy game, and the answer they noticed most often was "if a pretty boy was in it"?
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Jul 9, 2017 16:53
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Vaan is low on the list of my problems with FF12.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:09
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Electric Phantasm posted:I thought that was a flashback and Reks is barely mentioned and is never seen again so he might as well be dead. I thought this was a flashback too and I'm pretty sure at one point Vaan explicitly mentions he hates the Empire for taking his brother away from him or something along those line
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Jul 9, 2017 17:14
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Supposedly Basch was supposed to be the protagonist, and the execs forced in Vaan, this was to appeal to their home market rather than any specific demographic though. Something related apparently happened with Nier - the Japanese version had a typical anime pretty boy protagonist instead of old buff dude that was in the western release.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:20
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Avalerion posted:Supposedly Basch was supposed to be the protagonist, and the execs forced in Vaan, this was to appeal to their home market rather than any specific demographic though. Something related apparently happened with Nier - the Japanese version had a typical anime pretty boy protagonist instead of old buff dude that was in the western release. It's kind of a shame since brother Nier had his own distinct little character arc that sounded pretty interesting.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:26
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I think every single person that brings up the Double Nier thing never actually researches what happened.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:33
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Ffxii's biggest issue is that they made nu mou really stupid looking instead of like magical Eeyores, and that there are no playable moogle, bangaa, nu mou, or seeqs (also gria but I assume those were made post-12)
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Jul 9, 2017 17:33
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zedprime posted:Wanna see your chess gambits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_(chess_computer)
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Jul 9, 2017 17:34
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Has FFVII been solved yet
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Jul 9, 2017 17:35
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Help Im Alive posted:Has FFVII been solved yet Yes, I have come up with the FInal Fantasy Solution.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:36
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Paperhouse posted:12 is better if you don't use tons of gambits, tbh. No it isn't. It's just slower and shows off how much they don't want you doing that regularly because man their menu system isn't great.
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Jul 9, 2017 17:47
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I think FF12 is great and it coasts by on it's fantastic visual style and battle system. I'm willing to overlook some clunkiness because gosh I love ivalice and basch and ashe and airships and everything about ff12 I can't wait for tuesday!!!!
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Jul 9, 2017 18:27
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I think the plot and setting of FFXII are a waste and there isnt enough meat to the gambit system but Im super pumped to casually stumble around Ivalice and not hear people talk through a tin can.
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Jul 9, 2017 18:34
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Raxivace posted:Japan got both versions of Nier. It's only the west that only got one version. Where did you hear about that? Everything I read says they were functionally identical games except for the model swap and replacing a few instances of "father" with "brother" or whatever
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Jul 9, 2017 18:51
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gigglefeimer posted:You could replicate the fixed jobs in vanilla, IZJS just forces it on you. Which admittedly is better for some people since they have a real problem with games that give them too much freedom and no forced direction. Basically yeah, it's the forced implementation (and slight expansion on it in Zodiac Age) that I like. Apparently it was enough of a direct complain for the game that made them go with a limited job system. Tae posted:I think every single person that brings up the Double Nier thing never actually researches what happened. Uh, maybe my google translate is super off, but isn't that exactly what they say here? Google Translated Yoko Taro posted:Yoko: At first, we were only making a version of the young man (what will become a replicant later on) There was a story that Mr. Saito wanted to think overseas market from the way. So, when we discussed at Square Enix's Los Angeles studio, it was said that a thin line of young characters was impossible. So I decided to prepare the main character for North America. Obviously the translation is bad, but it still seems quite clear that the decision was made to appease overseas markets. You can't really blame anyone; a quick look on wikipedia references this exact bit.
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Jul 9, 2017 18:53
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Mega64 posted:Remove Vaan from the game in favour of a new human character called Iscar Matthias. Iscar is from Judus Iscariot, and Matthias was the apostle chosen to replace him. I have chosen these names to be symbolic of the character's betrayal, and change into a valued ally. This but unironically.
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Jul 9, 2017 18:56
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Ventana posted:Basically yeah, it's the forced implementation (and slight expansion on it in Zodiac Age) that I like. Apparently it was enough of a direct complain for the game that made them go with a limited job system. No, he said the japanese only had the young boy version and they made the old man version as the western version. Japan always had both versions.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:03
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The Xbox version of Nier in Japan had the old man, so basically no one played it. The story lines have more or less subtle differences but overall they have the same story beats. In Japan young Nier is the canon one, but they at least put references to them both in this game.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:26
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Cephas posted:Wasn't there a thing that went around during FF12's launch, that Square-Enix surveyed a lot of girls walking around the city about what would get them interested in the next final fantasy game, and the answer they noticed most often was "if a pretty boy was in it"? I dunno about FF12 but that's literally what Konami did with Metal Gear Solid 2 and the reason we played as Raiden instead of Snake.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:29
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I, for one, am pumped about FF12 because I could use a new sleeping aid.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:11
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Renoistic posted:The Xbox version of Nier in Japan had the old man, so basically no one played it. Man I'm currently on the 2nd playthrough of Automata (where you play as 9S and aside from Emil rolling around with no explanation I haven't seen a single reference to the first Nier yet.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:11
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Kelp Me! posted:Man I'm currently on the 2nd playthrough of Automata (where you play as 9S and aside from Emil rolling around with no explanation I haven't seen a single reference to the first Nier yet. It's super heavy on OG Nier references in the 2nd half of the game. You're like a third way into the game.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:14
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Tae posted:It's super heavy on OG Nier references in the 2nd half of the game. You're like a third way into the game. I am excited and expectant even though up until now I think I've been shown maybe 5% of the actual story. I did pick up on one thing in the intro video that I'm like 99% sure will be a major plot point, and that's that the date mentioned in the intro video and the dates mentioned in the first playthrough are off by like 5000 years I really need to jump back into it, I got distracted by Prey and Stormblood.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:18
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Countblanc posted:Ffxii's biggest issue is that they made nu mou really stupid looking instead of like magical Eeyores, and that there are no playable moogle, bangaa, nu mou, or seeqs (also gria but I assume those were made post-12)
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Jul 9, 2017 22:06
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Yeah but FF12's flaws are 'Everything about it' from really awful narrative pacing to lovely sidequests and dungeons to it's core gameplay literally being a lovely AI programming tool made so you could bypass actually having to do any of the awful gameplay yourself. It's a game that by and large doesn't want you to play it. The fact that one of the biggest features of both rereleases has been "We added a button so you'll have to spend less time playing the game" because you easily set up your gambits to safely clear 95% of content in the game at 12x speed is kind of really sad.  FF12's battles leave you with the choice as a player of either 'automate most of the game away' or 'intentionally gimp yourself so you interact with the game', which is a pretty bad design space to be in IMO. FF13, as much as I hate it, at least streamlined ATB in a more interesting way. And had better music.
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Jul 9, 2017 22:53
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12's pacing is all over the place but at least its characters are actually interesting and cool unlike anything you can say about 13. (Okay, other than Sazh) And at least there is a story unlike 15.
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Jul 9, 2017 22:59
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Zaphod42 posted:at least its characters are actually interesting and cool the thing i don't like about ff12 is that interesting and cool things happen to everyone but your party, and by the end of the game, minor villain c is far more fleshed out than anyone who's actually traveling with you because everything that's going on is happening to people other than yourself. meanwhile, you're loving around in a mountain cavern punching a mandrake in a knight costume that's a required story boss because ??????????
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Jul 9, 2017 23:08
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I still maintain that you can't just fully automate the serious hunts/boss fights unless you're GROSSLY overleveled. What FFXII has going for it, and what the Gambits help with, is that it's got a better sense of exploration than any other game in the series. You can't just cruise around these big environments, looking for hidden nooks or crannies or entrances to new, big optional areas that could be filled with monsters 30 levels higher than you but THINK OF THE TREASURES. Meanwhile your exploration is never interrupted by random battle transitions, and your gambits keep your team murdering the local wildlife in <15 seconds and you can just keep moving seemlessly and it's great. You can focus on the more interesting aspecs (exploration) than "move cursor to attack, move cursor to white magic, cure" a million times like random encounters in every other game in the series before it. Meanwhile, the actual meat of the battle system- all the hunts and challenging boss fights, really require you to pay attention and stay on your toes, and I think made for more fun boss fights than most of the rest of the series.
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Jul 9, 2017 23:33
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Zaphod42 posted:12's pacing is all over the place but at least its characters are actually interesting and cool unlike anything you can say about 13. (Okay, other than Sazh) And at least there is a story unlike 15. 12's cast is the worst. Most of them contribute almost nothing to the plot or setting and when they do get to have character moments they get 3 minutes of cutscenes stretched over 5 hours of gameplay (See: Handsome Pirate and his relationship with his dad taking up all of 20 lines of dialogue and two boss fights where Cid interacts with Ashe more than his own son.) the 12 cast suuuucks and at 13 had at least Snow was cool and trying to do good and Hope desperate to stab him in the chest/character interactions and dialogue out in the field so you got a feel of how the group works as a whole. The one character who gets a decent arc is Ashe but that arc is ultimately inconsequential to the main plot as we see it and HELPS the villains goals. She is consumed by revenge and is lead to seek power by the Occuria to destroy her enemies. She learns to let her vengeance not blind her and she destroys the Occuria's hold on the world (which is what the villain wanted and also dooms the world to be lovely FFT world eventually) and then goes on to destroy her enemies anyway. The entire plot from Leviathan to Bahamut is just you being lead around by the nose to make a deal for power you didn't even need since you achieve your overall goals completely without it. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 23:46
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Schwartzcough posted:You can focus on the more interesting aspecs (exploration) i lie, this was another problem i had with 12. i felt like i was being punished for exploring. all the
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Jul 9, 2017 23:49
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:12's cast is the worst. Most of them contribute almost nothing to the plot or setting and when they do get to have character moments they get 3 minutes of cutscenes stretched over 5 hours of gameplay (See: Handsome Pirate and his relationship with his dad taking up all of 20 lines of dialogue and two boss fights where Cid interacts with Ashe more than his own son.) the 12 cast suuuucks and at 13 had at least Snow was cool and trying to do good and Hope desperate to stab him in the chest/character interactions and dialogue out in the field so you got a feel of how the group works as a whole. The one character who gets a decent arc is Ashe but that arc is ultimately inconsequential to the main plot as we see it and HELPS the villains goals. She is consumed by revenge and is lead to seek power by the Occuria to destroy her enemies. She learns to let her vengeance not blind her and she destroys the Occuria's hold on the world (which is what the villain wanted and also dooms the world to be lovely FFT world eventually) and then goes on to destroy her enemies anyway. The entire plot from Leviathan to Bahamut is just you being lead around by the nose to make a deal for power you didn't even need since you achieve your overall goals completely without it. im beginning to think we have wildly different opinions lol next i'll bet you don't think 8 is a secret masterpiece "the lovely FFT world" yeah im gonna swipe left on this one The White Dragon posted:i lie, this was another problem i had with 12. i felt like i was being punished for exploring. all the
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Jul 9, 2017 23:56
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At least ZJS fixed that by making a majority of your tech and spell unlocks tied to finding the guaranteed drop of it.
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Jul 9, 2017 23:57
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:next i'll bet you don't think 8 is a secret masterpiece No 8's also bad like 12. And I really like FFT, but it's an actual plot point in the setting that they're way after some weird widespread death of magic/magical technology. I was saying Ashe's actions hilariously lead the world to eventual decay where most of the magical friends she's made along her adventure will die out almost completely.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:09
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Zaphod42 posted:12's pacing is all over the place but at least its characters are actually interesting and cool unlike anything you can say about 13. (Okay, other than Sazh) And at least there is a story unlike 15. *citation needed Schwartzcough posted:I still maintain that you can't just fully automate the serious hunts/boss fights unless you're GROSSLY overleveled. What FFXII has going for it, and what the Gambits help with, is that it's got a better sense of exploration than any other game in the series. You can't just cruise around these big environments, looking for hidden nooks or crannies or entrances to new, big optional areas that could be filled with monsters 30 levels higher than you but THINK OF THE TREASURES. Meanwhile your exploration is never interrupted by random battle transitions, and your gambits keep your team murdering the local wildlife in <15 seconds and you can just keep moving seemlessly and it's great. You can focus on the more interesting aspecs (exploration) than "move cursor to attack, move cursor to white magic, cure" a million times like random encounters in every other game in the series before it. Did you ever play 13? because 13 had a much better and involved battle system, including paying attention and staying on your toes.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:10
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