Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition: Looks like we're the grognards, now.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition: Looks like we're the grognards, now.

«‹›266 »

Cthulhu Dreams: Dec 11, 2010; If I pretend to be Cthulhu no one will know I'm a baseball robot.

Yeah unless the leader forgets to heal himself, I ramp up the encounter difficulty significantly (25% more minions, level 1 damage forever) and it's super hard to make them feel under pressure. It took a game where I rolled 8 crits off brutes in turn 1-2 to really get them on the ropes and powers like 'stand the fallen' can just mass res team PC at a moments notice

# ? Jul 10, 2017 00:40

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 9, 2024 15:00

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

1st Level Damage Forever is a harsh mistress.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 00:42

Cthulhu Dreams: Dec 11, 2010; If I pretend to be Cthulhu no one will know I'm a baseball robot.

dwarf74 posted:

1st Level Damage Forever is a harsh mistress.

It makes crits really impactful is the thing I notice most.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 00:46

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Cthulhu Dreams posted:

It makes crits really impactful is the thing I notice most.

For my group, it makes epic tier damage less of a joke. And lets me challenge them with a reasonable number of enemies. And drops them hard - but they can deal with it.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 01:03

Moriatti: Apr 21, 2014

Comp was Barbarian, Psion (character died and player wasn't in to him so we had him bite it, replaced with Warlock), Warden, Warlord and Wizard.

Fights tended to be either they swept the enemies up or threatened TPK levels and no inbetween.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 01:09

Legit Businessman: Sep 2, 2007

My Lovely Horse posted:

In Gardmore Abbey news, my party has latched on to the idea that the abbey's downfall was caused by one of the items that are simply sidequest macguffins. I have no idea where they might have picked this up. At least they're getting a plot twist out of it?

You know you're basically obligated to do this now, right?

It's a two way street - if your players are convinced that one of the non-important macguffins is important, I'd run with it.

You don't have to beat them over the head with it, but it's a neat touch that the players "intuition" (read: inability to maintain remember plot) is rewarded. Now they are super engaged because they managed to solve the mystery.

Unless this is impossible for this campaign (because the source of corruption is something else, and can only be something else due to other clues pointing it in that direction), roll with your players "suggestions".

# ? Jul 10, 2017 01:13

Cthulhu Dreams: Dec 11, 2010; If I pretend to be Cthulhu no one will know I'm a baseball robot.

Moriatti posted:

Comp was Barbarian, Psion (character died and player wasn't in to him so we had him bite it, replaced with Warlock), Warden, Warlord and Wizard.

Fights tended to be either they swept the enemies up or threatened TPK levels and no inbetween.

Serious question: Is the guy playing the warlord an idiot?

I'm running two campaigns at once. In one, the guy playing the leader is very switched on, very tactical. As a result, almost impossible to take his team down as he is personally rarely exposed to risk until the 'mop up' phase or because he needs to bring his plot artifact into the fight, manages his resources intelligently and holds healing back for when it's decisive to keep someone up. To threaten a wipe you need to punch through everyone's HP pools + his heals to crack the egg to get to him and the party is 3 strikers + defender + leader so that is super hard to do before the parties single target damage focuses down enough guys to win the fight (Also, stand the fallen is a great power for 'oh poo poo'). In the other one, the guy playing the cleric is not super tactical or switched on, and routinely does poo poo like 'not heal himself when bloodied' and 'charges into melee not adjacent to the defender' and gets his head kicked in. They've come close to wipes because the cleric got punched into the floor and they couldn't easily get him back or or easily heals at that point.

The difference is stark - I only play level 1 damage forever with the first crew (I do some other difficult increases for the second crew, but they are on slightly souped up MM3) and the 2nd crew has come way closer to wiping.

(The other note is elementalists and ranged rangers are really hard to kill)

Drewjitsu posted:

You know you're basically obligated to do this now, right?

It's a two way street - if your players are convinced that one of the non-important macguffins is important, I'd run with it.

You don't have to beat them over the head with it, but it's a neat touch that the players "intuition" (read: inability to maintain remember plot) is rewarded. Now they are super engaged because they managed to solve the mystery.

Unless this is impossible for this campaign (because the source of corruption is something else, and can only be something else due to other clues pointing it in that direction), roll with your players "suggestions".

This is great advice.

Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jul 10, 2017

# ? Jul 10, 2017 01:15

Moriatti: Apr 21, 2014

Cthulhu Dreams posted:

Serious question: Is the guy playing the warlord an idiot?

He is not, and is often the last or second to last alive.

I think it was me making minion-parties and expecting the wizard to do spread.

You guys have given me a lot of good advice, I think things will go much better in the future.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 01:26

Legit Businessman: Sep 2, 2007

Cthulhu Dreams posted:

This is great advice.

I'm not gonna take credit, I'm just repeating what Chris Perkins told me. He often says that he's listening to the banter between his PC's for plot hooks in his stories, as often the PC's (who are paranoid murder hobos, let's face it) will come up with something far more complicated and crazy that what the DM has in mind. And let's be serious, if the worst fears of the PC group are realized, you've got a tremendous hook for them to stay interested and engaged.

Which is (in my opinion) the goal of this poo poo in the first place.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 06:06

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

It's great for a freeform campaign but Gardmore Abbey's whole thing is that the party spends the whole adventure gathering the bits of the artifact that actually did it. And they don't really have a plausible theory about the other macguffin that I could reward, just �I think that's what did it.�

# ? Jul 10, 2017 06:18

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

Hey guys, would this be the right thread to post a custom 4e town I made back in the day for feedback? It's been a hot minute, but I liked what I did with it, and I'd like to use it in a future game, but maybe it could do with some updating...

# ? Jul 10, 2017 10:29

Spiteski: Aug 27, 2013

Either this thread or the GM advice thread could be ok. Go ahead and post it

# ? Jul 10, 2017 12:45

Gharbad the Weak: Feb 23, 2008; This too good for you.

There's a guy recruiting for the 4e Zeitgeist 1-30 campaign in Trad Games right now. It'll use Fantasy Grounds with some PbP elements between sessions, showing what you're doing in downtime and such. Live dialogue will be in text, which is... weird? I've never done that.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3826376

Apparently this guy has run it before, so he knows what he's getting into. He also says that Goons Get Preference, but he is posting on a few forums if he can't get enough players here.

I'm hoping people show up, I've wanted to try the Resourceful Magician bard for a while, and that would mean playing a game that lasts longer than 2 sessions.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:47

Spiteski: Aug 27, 2013

Gharbad the Weak posted:

There's a guy recruiting for the 4e Zeitgeist 1-30 campaign in Trad Games right now. It'll use Fantasy Grounds with some PbP elements between sessions, showing what you're doing in downtime and such. Live dialogue will be in text, which is... weird? I've never done that.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3826376

Apparently this guy has run it before, so he knows what he's getting into. He also says that Goons Get Preference, but he is posting on a few forums if he can't get enough players here.

I'm hoping people show up, I've wanted to try the Resourceful Magician bard for a while, and that would mean playing a game that lasts longer than 2 sessions.

You're weird!

Also yea sign up pls.

# ? Jul 10, 2017 22:59

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

Spiteski posted:

Either this thread or the GM advice thread could be ok. Go ahead and post it

Ok, here goes.

quote:

City of Red Oak

Type:
Mountain valley town, fortified

Population: 950

Population makeup: Half-elves, halflings, some goliaths, some humans, some dwarves, few dragonborn, few tieflings, few elves, few gnomes and one half-orc.

Mascot:
Dire Snapping Turtle

Geography:
The town is built mostly on a graded area, using the solid mountain rock as foundation. A gentle stream cascades through its center in a layered waterfall. The region is a mix of forest, valley, river and mountain, providing a very pleasing atmosphere for people who enjoy various different aspects of nature's beauty. Mountain Goats and Dire Snapping Turtles are commonplace.

History:
The town was founded only 80 years ago by a group of nomadic halflings who thought it a good place to settle and enjoy a quiet life, with no nobles to bow to or crooked city guards to bribe. They named it Red Oak after the large and mighty oak tree that stands in the city square to this day, as it was fall at the time. They set up simple farms on the rich soil and built a wooden wall to protect their new home. The halflings were soon chanced upon by a traveling group of half-elven traders, who realized the newly-settled area was ideally close to all their trading targets. Adopting the native Giant Dire Snapping Turtle as their mascot, the city's reputation as a carefree area with good hospitality and enchanting scenery grew. Human settlers soon joined in, and more and more half-elves settled there over time, as the city's particular mix of strong community and natural surroundings appealed to their dual nature. The merchant guild eventually spread word of the area to their clients, and soon dwarves who had grown tired of the darkness of mines and small bands of goliaths made the town their home. Some elven, tiefling and dragonborn settlers soon followed, as well as a few gnomes. The town seems to attract people of a strongly individualist and artistic nature.

The town has had trouble with a nearby goblin tribe on numerous occasions in the past decade, but they've always been able to repel them with little problem. The town sees many wandering souls settle there for a few years, sometimes months, only to begin their travels anew once they grow restless. A good portion of its citizens spend much of their time away from town, returning in between travels to rest and catch up with old friends.

Government:
The town's mayor is a Halfling named Hobert Riverbrow, he and his council handle all of the city's governing duties.

Defense:
The city guard is made up of 30 archers and 40 warriors, mostly half-elves but with a few dwarves, dragonborn, goliaths and halflings. Various traps are set around the city, ready to be triggered in case of an attack. There is also a 200-man volunteer militia, and the city is surrounded by fortified wooden walls. A group of 20 mercenaries called the Stoneblades are also based in town, and have an arrangement to help defend it from invaders should the need arise.

Inns:
The Mossy Stone inn is the most affordable one in town, run by a chatty halfling named Thanda Harefoot. Its friendly competitor, the Redleaf inn, is a slightly more upscale establishment run by a half-elf named Marcus Swiftwind.

Taverns:
Mossy Stone Taproom, The Minstrel's Flask, and Oakbrew Tavern

Supplies:
Half and Half Trading House, Snapping Turtle Supplies

Temples: Temple of Avandra, Temple of Melora, Temple of Correlon, shrines to every other god around town (except the bad guys)

Points of interest:

Red Oak Hall:
The city hall is where Hobert Riverbrow works and resides. Despite his cheery appearance, he takes his position very seriously and takes a very hands-on approach to governing. He personally greets all new settlers and meets with anyone who takes an appointment with him, no matter their standing.

Cascade Guard Barracks:
The Cascade Guard is the city's military. Led by a particularly finicky Dragonborn named Ghesh IronScale, they assure the defense of the city. Due to the carefree nature of its citizens, Ghesh doesn't feel like the militia is particularly reliable and is always looking for ways to shore up the city's defenses. He feels that a coordinated assault by an invading force would be too hard to repel, and that the city's growing prosperity will eventually make it a target for things worse than goblins. He trains his troops very strictly and is constantly dismayed at the ease with which the city council dismisses his requests for more funding. He holds the Stoneblades in great contempt for their undisciplined and rowdy nature, but is grudgingly thankful for the extra swordhands. He has a particularly strained relationship with Thotham Kagson.

Stoneblades Headquarters:
A band of mercenaries that settled in town 8 years ago after finding it to be both hospitable, isolated and yet relatively close to various prolific towns, the stoneblades are a rowdy, downright violent bunch who contrast sharply with the rest of the city's more artistic and friendly populace. Allowed some leniency due to an oath to defend the town, they often cause a ruckus after celebrating a well-done mission, and some whisper they do not pay their taxes. Despite their brutal and merciless tactics when "working", they are smart enough not to push their luck with the city's government, lest they inquire into some of their less reputable activities, like the illegal gambling ring they run, or their trading with unscrupulous scavenger caravans. They are led by Thotham Kagson, a towering Goliath with a very aggravating and disrespectful attitude, who loves nothing more than to goad strangers into fights, only to humiliate them in combat. They will do anything for the right price, and often clash with the city guard. One of their members, Yurk the half-orc, is renowned for his brutal fighting skills.

The Minstrel's Flask:
The most popular tavern in town, it is favored by bards and minstrels and has a stage to allow musicians, storytellers or other manners of performers a chance to shine. The atmosphere is quite jovial and welcoming, and the owner,a bubbly Half-elven woman named Faral Binnety, contributes greatly to the warmth of the establishment, often singing cheery songs as she works.

City Square:
The large oak after which the town is named after covers most of the city square in a pleasant shade. On fair summer afternoons, minstrels tend to sit beneath its shade and recount legends new and old, true and false.

Mossy Stone Inn:
5 SP a night, this modest inn is most famous for its taproom and friendly host, Thanda Harefoot. As friendly as she is chatty, Thanda is a great source of town gossip.

Redleaf Inn:
Marcus Swiftwind is a retired adventurer who takes great pride in offering a cozy yet relatively upscale lodging experience to his customers. 1 GP a night gets you a room at his inn.

Snapping Turtle Supplies:
Sibrek ProudBeard is the owner of this bazaar, where a lot of basic equipment is for sale. He is perfectly willing to place orders for more exotic merchandise if the PCs ask, as he has many contacts with what remains of the trading caravans that helped the town prosper in its early days. Sibrek is a former mountaineer, always offering unsolicited frontiersman advice and talking about the good old days.

Half and Half Trading House:
This trading house used to be quite reputable, but slow business has forced the owner, a halfling named Genner Dodgefoe, to enter into a partnership with a Tiefling named Skamos Fintell, who turned the trading house into more of a "no questions asked" pawn shop, much to the dismay of the original proprietor. Still, business has improved a lot, so he keeps his misgivings to himself. Skamos runs the night shift of the store, and is far less scrupulous and inquisitive than his associate, but he is also a shrewder negotiator, and PCs would be better served trading legitimate goods during the day. Due to the sometimes unsavory customers he gets during his shift, Skamos has hired a bodyguard, a humorless Goliath named Gauthak Peakstomper.

Oakbrew Tavern:
Founded 40 years ago by a group of mountain dwarves who felt the local alcohol selection to be too tame, the Oakbrew Tavern is known for its strong ale and rowdy clientele. It is the favored establishment of the Stoneblades, and the din of the clientele is a good cover for anyone engaged in shady dealings.

I don't have the embarrassing handrawn map I made back in the day, but the town is basically situated just off to the right of the Nentir Vale map, on the other side of the Dawnforge Mountains.

I know the idea of a "valley in a mountain" isn't quite logical, but I had a specific setup in mind and didn't know how else to express it. I used these images I found on GIS to demonstrate the geography as I pictured it:

I think the turtle in that image is the only reason the town has dire snapping turtles as a mascot. :B

# ? Jul 11, 2017 02:10

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

Gharbad the Weak posted:

There's a guy recruiting for the 4e Zeitgeist 1-30 campaign in Trad Games right now. It'll use Fantasy Grounds with some PbP elements between sessions, showing what you're doing in downtime and such. Live dialogue will be in text, which is... weird? I've never done that.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3826376

Apparently this guy has run it before, so he knows what he's getting into. He also says that Goons Get Preference, but he is posting on a few forums if he can't get enough players here.

I'm hoping people show up, I've wanted to try the Resourceful Magician bard for a while, and that would mean playing a game that lasts longer than 2 sessions.

Much as I'd love to, I can't make that time.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 06:23

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

11pm start :suicide:

#gmtproblems

# ? Jul 11, 2017 08:20

frankenfreak: Feb 16, 2007; I SCORED 85% ON A QUIZ ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT RAW AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TEXT

#bastionboogerbrigade

Splicer posted:

#gmtproblems

#cetproblems

# ? Jul 11, 2017 12:41

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

I mean, heck, I'd be up for a Euro timezone game if you guys are. Not the world's biggest fan of voice chat though.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 12:46

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

My Lovely Horse posted:

Not the world's biggest fan of voice chat though.

Eh? Do you run your Gardmore Abbey game by chat, or live?

# ? Jul 11, 2017 12:48

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

That's a live game.

I was in a text chat game a while ago and I will grant that there are issues surrounding the question whose turn it is to talk right now and getting lengthy dialogue in.

My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Jul 12, 2017

# ? Jul 11, 2017 12:51

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

The nice thing about text games is that you can say stuff that'd be embarrassing or hard to say aloud while still keeping a snappy pace.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 15:33

ElegantFugue: Jun 5, 2012

Gharbad the Weak posted:

There's a guy recruiting for the 4e Zeitgeist 1-30 campaign in Trad Games right now. It'll use Fantasy Grounds with some PbP elements between sessions, showing what you're doing in downtime and such. Live dialogue will be in text, which is... weird? I've never done that.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3826376

Apparently this guy has run it before, so he knows what he's getting into. He also says that Goons Get Preference, but he is posting on a few forums if he can't get enough players here.

I'm hoping people show up, I've wanted to try the Resourceful Magician bard for a while, and that would mean playing a game that lasts longer than 2 sessions.

That's... actually a good time for me? And I've been wanting to get back into SOMEthing since my group disbanded, not to mention I had an idea laying around from our unstarted Zeitgeist campaign. I should submit something.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 15:43

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

As a guy currently running the Level 30 parts of the 1-30 Zeitgeist campaign, do it.

It's really good. I have no idea how I am going to top this for my next campaign, but

huge ZG spoilers follow:
I am planning on doing the obvious and running a game set in the new world the PCs created, assuming it's interesting enough for a game setting, which it almost certainly will be.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 16:21

Section Z: Oct 1, 2008; Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?; Pillbug

Countblanc posted:

The nice thing about text games is that you can say stuff that'd be embarrassing or hard to say aloud while still keeping a snappy pace.

It also lets me embrace my love of the Space Quest and Quest for Glory narrator. I can't get away with that verbally.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 18:00

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Section Z posted:

It also lets me embrace my love of the Space Quest and Quest for Glory narrator. I can't get away with that verbally.

>Attack Kobold
Did you mean Kobold, Kobold, Kobold, Kobold, Kobold, Kobold, Kobold, Kobold, Kobold, Kobold Mage, Kobold, Kobold, Kobold, Kobold, Kobold, or Kobold?
>Flee South

# ? Jul 11, 2017 18:02

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Houserule Idea that I literally just posted over on ENW.

Any time a power or feat gives a bonus or penalty to a d20 roll* that's based on one of your stats, the bonus or penalty is fixed to +/-4 (for your class's primary stat) or +/-3 (for a secondary stat).

Reason: Your target numbers are already scaling on a linear basis to your level and your stats. Scaling the bonus or penalty breaks this relationship.

* I could be talked down to 'only attack rolls.'

# ? Jul 11, 2017 20:01

LightWarden: Mar 18, 2007; Lander county's safe as heaven,
despite all the strife and boilin',
Tin Star,
Oh how she's an icon of the eastern west,
But now the time has come to end our song,
of the Tin Star, the Tin Star!

I'd stick to attacks/defenses, since those are designed to respond to the smallest changes, and as-is it nerfs a bunch of other feats such as Duelist's Panache, which lets a rogue add Charisma to Athletics skills so a swashbuckler can actually be good at them.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 21:23

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

LightWarden posted:

I'd stick to attacks/defenses, since those are designed to respond to the smallest changes, and as-is it nerfs a bunch of other feats such as Duelist's Panache, which lets a rogue add Charisma to Athletics skills so a swashbuckler can actually be good at them.

I find that argument pretty convincing, yep.

Skills are a lot more likely to rely on ... well, I guess tertiary-and-lower ... stats, which need more help.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 21:31

Section Z: Oct 1, 2008; Wait, this is the Moon.
How did I even get here?; Pillbug

dwarf74 posted:

I find that argument pretty convincing, yep.

Skills are a lot more likely to rely on ... well, I guess tertiary-and-lower ... stats, which need more help.

I have found it fascinating how many games separate out "Good at disarming traps" with "Able to see them coming". And then how many more split them off into different stats, often involving one you can't really afford to ramp up... While still making it as hard, or harder, to detect the traps your assumed job is to disarm.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 00:41

LightWarden: Mar 18, 2007; Lander county's safe as heaven,
despite all the strife and boilin',
Tin Star,
Oh how she's an icon of the eastern west,
But now the time has come to end our song,
of the Tin Star, the Tin Star!

Dex/Wis isn't bad on a ranged rogue, since you can MC ranger and go into Darkstalker to do stealth stuff, or you can be a scout/hunter/ranged ranger and pick up Thievery somewhere, but you do have to jump through some hoops to get a good trap detector and disabler on the same character.

At least it's not 3e's "literally can't disable some traps without the right class feature".

# ? Jul 12, 2017 01:52

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Section Z posted:

I have found it fascinating how many games separate out "Good at disarming traps" with "Able to see them coming". And then how many more split them off into different stats, often involving one you can't really afford to ramp up... While still making it as hard, or harder, to detect the traps your assumed job is to disarm.

I allow Thievery to be used to find traps, and Acrobatics and Athletics to each let you climb. Because, yeah, it's too many stats.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 01:57

Moriatti: Apr 21, 2014

Has anyone converted Pathfinder Adventure Paths to 4e? If so, what are common pitfalls or some conventional wisdom I should follow?

I know to, in general, cut the number of meaningless fights down, since 4e doesn't really handle those great, but is there anything else I should be aware of?

# ? Jul 12, 2017 17:43

User0015: Nov 24, 2007; Please don't talk about your sexuality unless it serves the ~narrative~!

Whybird posted:

Do you mean in terms of character building, or in terms of roleplaying that isn't about fighting things?

For the former, my approach when I ran 4e with players who weren't into character building was that whenever a level-up was due I'd pick three or four choices for each player that were all good, and then present them to the player as an IC decision on what the character wanted to train in next. Honestly, if it's not a thing a player enjoys, my advice is not to force it upon them.

For the latter, 4e doesn't have much in the way of rules that affect things outside combat. You can roll on skills, and you can let players perform rituals, but that's basically it. To my mind, that's a strength, not a weakness: crunchy rules are great in combat when things become a minature wargame, and outside of combat you can let things get a bit more fluffy and allow your players to freeform ideas and roll with their punches.

The latter, yeah. I want to be able to do things like: An epic chase across rooftops, sweet talking the baron into not invading the nice baron next door, scaling a mountain and kicking in the door of the ancient, lost temple of a forgotten god, building their own city, etc...

I want to encourage them to do things both heroic and to embrace the open ended world they can explore. I also want the characters to be able to utilize their own abilities in ways to help them achieve those goals. Because they can do incredible things, during the chase they do things like "I summon a stone wall in front of them!" or "I plant an illusion in his mind that there's a perfect escape route, instead of a sheer drop that will break his legs". If they're scaling a mountain for a few days, being able to help others up sheer surfaces, leaping across chasms, ignoring or resisting severe cold, low oxygen and possibly dehydration/starvation, etc...

But how? Here, let me quote another poster.

ImpactVector posted:

There aren't any real analogues to 5e's spells in the sense of "fuzzily worded rules bits that need to be interpreted for some problem solving effect", if that's what you're looking for.

What most people do IME is use a PC's combat powers either straight against a target number (which IMO is a little tough since the numbers scale a little differently than skills, so you can't use the table in the DMG as-is) or to inform what can be accomplished via a skill check.

For instance, if a player has a power that lets them shoot fire bolts, then it's pretty easy to let them make arcana checks to solve problems that involve lighting distant things on fire. Or movement powers are definitely easy to work with.

That does sometimes leave more fictional space for magic people to work with, but it all still comes down to creativity in the end.

If I'm understanding you correctly, maybe this could be how I do it.

In my head, if a player can shoot fire bolts at will, I feel like letting them set things on fire should just come naturally. They can light candles, they can light campfires, they might be able to light a house on fire. To me, "My guy can hurl fire at will" translates into "I can produce fire at will, so I'll never go without a hot cup of tea again". I like the idea of combining a skill check with an associated power though. Something like, "I want to push this door open." "Ok, do you have any powers that might help you push things?" "I can shove monsters via this encounter power if they're bigger than me.." "Alright, roll strength using that power." Like that? That could definitely work, where a player wants to pull something off and suggests a power that lets them do it. Then I can determine a skill for them to roll against it? Or an ability check?

# ? Jul 12, 2017 20:55

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

Most of the time you don't even need to bring powers into it and skill checks are enough. Do encourage your players to flavour their skill checks according to their characters' themes and established abilities. The way it's meant to be is you use your attack powers in combat, and your utility powers and skills are fair game for any situation, but you can improvise around powers.

For example, pushing a door open would just be an Athletics check. (However, if a player has an encounter power that lets them push stuff, and they're willing to spend it on the door, then sure, give them a bonus to the Athletics check. No attack roll necessary for the power, they want to spend a resource to gain an advantage, that's totally fine - I just wouldn't let them rest up directly after the door cause then it's not really a spent resource. There should be an implicit danger of getting into a fight after the door so they have to choose - use this power now for the door and maybe miss it in the fight, or save it, have a harder time with the door, but if there's a fight, push time?)

The dude who can make fire can be a bit more complex, and what you have him roll depends on what he wants to do. Light candles, light a campfire, make tea - sure. Don't even have him roll, that stuff would be near effortless anyway. Light a house on fire, that can be Arcana - but what does he want to achieve by burning down the house? Is the problem "how do we light this house on fire"? Then he could just use his fire power. Is the problem "how do we convince the evil villagers we're serious" and his idea how to do that is to light up a house? That could be an Intimidate check. Context is everything.

Here's how I'd approach your other examples:
- summon a stone wall: very specific effect, I feel this should be restricted to characters who actually have that power (if you allow everyone to do it just with a skill check, what good is any power?)
- plant illusion: Bluff, as long as it's established this character can do illusion stuff.
- help others up the mountain, jump chasms: Athletics, no question
- ignore cold, starvation etc.: Endurance, again, no question

I'd get a Rules Compendium and read through the skills chapter. There are tons of applications baked in that are exactly the kind of heroic fantasy stuff you want, and a bunch of helpful suggestions for improvising with each skill.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 21:18

ImpactVector: Feb 24, 2007; HAHAHAHA FOOLS!!
I AM SO SMART!

Uh oh. What did he do now?; Nap Ghost

User0015 posted:

If I'm understanding you correctly, maybe this could be how I do it.

In my head, if a player can shoot fire bolts at will, I feel like letting them set things on fire should just come naturally. They can light candles, they can light campfires, they might be able to light a house on fire. To me, "My guy can hurl fire at will" translates into "I can produce fire at will, so I'll never go without a hot cup of tea again". I like the idea of combining a skill check with an associated power though. Something like, "I want to push this door open." "Ok, do you have any powers that might help you push things?" "I can shove monsters via this encounter power if they're bigger than me.." "Alright, roll strength using that power." Like that? That could definitely work, where a player wants to pull something off and suggests a power that lets them do it. Then I can determine a skill for them to roll against it? Or an ability check?

You seem to want there to be more "game" outside of combat. Which is a laudable goal, don't get me wrong! That's like the holy grail of high engagement mechanics.

In my opinion, traditional D&D spells are really bad at this. You're not playing any real kind of "game" with them in modern D&D except "outwit/surprise the DM". Generally there are enough pauses in non-combat time that you can rest and recover spent resources, and most of the "I do a thing" spells don't have a roll associated with them so they can't really interact with any other mechanics even if you wanted them to.

I agree that a player shouldn't roll to light a candle. There's a concept that gets thrown around a lot called "just say yes", which basically means that dice should only hit the table when both success and failure are interesting. Otherwise, who cares? Sure, you do it. Good work.

So in both the candle and door opening, I'd just let them do it.

Or maybe if there was a time constraint and they wanted the door open NOW with no chance of failure, I'd make them use the power and have it be expended for the fight that's right behind the door.

But burning a house down? Yeah, that's a roll. If you fail, it takes too long and someone notices.

And while it's not necessarily a thing in the basic rules, once you get the dice on the table you can start to interact with mechanics. Maybe you have bennies you can spend every session to reroll. Or they could spend a healing surge for +2.

Plus, spells are generally limited to a select number of classes. So if you like hitting things with sharp objects, you're probably out.

Unfortunately, outside of spells and combat, there really aren't that many rules in the game. This is kind of true in most games that don't have some kind of meta-currency though.

# ? Jul 12, 2017 21:44

UrbanLabyrinth: Jan 28, 2009; When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence; College Slice

13th Age has a good guideline for using powers outside of combat, that are fairly adaptable to 4E:

quote:

Rituals
Rituals are spells cast outside of combat for various free-form magical effects. Clerics and wizards learn ritual magic by default; other spellcasters can learn it by taking the Ritual Casting feat.

Casting a Ritual
To cast a spell as a ritual:

Choose the spell that will be used and expended by the ritual.
Tell the GM what you are trying to accomplish and gather necessary ingredients for the ritual.
Spend 1d4 minutes/quarter-hours/hours (as determined by the GM) preparing and casting the ritual. You can�t cast other spells during this period. A PC taking damage won�t necessarily end the ritual, but it will be ruined if a character falls unconscious or launches an attack of their own.
Make a skill check using one of your magical backgrounds and the ability score the GM deems appropriate. Use the standard DC targets (or a special DC set by the GM), depending on your tier and the results you�re hoping for. The higher the level of the spell consumed by the ritual, the greater the effect.
No matter the outcome, the spell is expended until your next full heal-up.

Determining Results
Choose outcomes that are outgrowths of the spell�s normal effects. The effects don�t have to play within the usual constraints of the magic system, and they don�t have to be taken as a precedent for future rituals.

Failure should fail forward.

The High Arcana talent of the wizard allows you to cast a ritual in a matter of rounds instead of minutes, but it still needs the required components.

# ? Jul 13, 2017 02:57

Admiral Joeslop: Jul 8, 2010

Next week we're going to do some kind of one shot before we start a new campaign (of 5e) and I thought I would give 4e a try and see if the other players like it. Two of them and myself have played it but its been at least 3-4 years. Who has a generous list of easy pregens? I'm up to date on the character builder but man am I out of practice on making 4e gubbins.

# ? Jul 13, 2017 22:07

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Admiral Joeslop posted:

Next week we're going to do some kind of one shot before we start a new campaign (of 5e) and I thought I would give 4e a try and see if the other players like it. Two of them and myself have played it but its been at least 3-4 years. Who has a generous list of easy pregens? I'm up to date on the character builder but man am I out of practice on making 4e gubbins.

The Slaying Stone is pretty good, as long as you're flexible with how you handle the noncombat parts, since those can be a little awkward as-written.

# ? Jul 13, 2017 22:28

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 9, 2024 15:00

Moriatti: Apr 21, 2014

Admiral Joeslop posted:

Next week we're going to do some kind of one shot before we start a new campaign (of 5e) and I thought I would give 4e a try and see if the other players like it. Two of them and myself have played it but its been at least 3-4 years. Who has a generous list of easy pregens? I'm up to date on the character builder but man am I out of practice on making 4e gubbins.

Also here are some level 1 characters

# ? Jul 13, 2017 22:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition: Looks like we're the grognards, now.

«‹›266 »