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I don't think there needs to be a puppet master-type villain (if that's what you're getting at). The MCU right now has a recurring villain in Thanos, but it's not like he's affecting every film. If you just want a Sinister Six storyline, I feel like that was somewhat hinted towards at the end of Homecoming. We already have Vulture, Shocker and Gargan showing up, so a couple more villains could easily be assembled by Toomes in 2021's Spider-Man: Graduation.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:23
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I think we'll get a Sinister Six in the end, because the whole reason that group forms is because "Ugh gently caress Spider-Man beating us all the time! We'll team up and beat him!" And then he beats them anyway.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:26
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We can all agree that in Infinity War the Beyonder needs to show up and Peter needs to teach him how to use the bathroom.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:26
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Toomes is already showing reluctance. I think he'd be better served as the wildcard than the ringleader, especially since it'd just be a retread of his relationship with Shocker and Amazon. And using Norman and Otto doesn't mean they have to go into "they want to take over the world" territory. I just want someone with more vision than their next big score, which would just be retreading Toomes's territory.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:27
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TFRazorsaw posted:so like, putting aside Tony Stark and whatnot, where do you think they should look towards villains? Out of the villains that haven't been done yet, I'd like to see Kraven, Chameleon, Scorpion, and Molten Man.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:39
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I dunno, I love the Goblins but they've already been done. Same with dropping love interests from a great height. It's bad enough when the comics keep revisiting it. It might be nice to get another Electro, since ASM2 sucked. A bunch of great villains have been mentioned already too, Chameleon, Mysterio, Kraven, the Smythes and the Spider-Slayers. We never really properly got Rhino in ASM2 either. At the end of Homecoming I felt like Toomes was just playing things close to his chest. He has some information, but he's not going to give it up to just anyone (or let on that he knows something). He wants revenge on Peter but he's not going to give Gargan the satisfaction of it.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:40
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I don't think Toomes really cares about revenge. He just wants results. Peter still only matters as far as he interferes, and on some level, he seems to respect him. Put him in charge of the Sinister Six, and it's just the same thing as in Homecoming, just with five super bad guys instead of Shocker and a chubby IT guy. It's the same basic story. But I dunno. I'm biased I guess, because Octavius and Osborn are my favorite comic book villains of all time. I liked Defoe's take well enough, but he burned out and wasn't a really definitive Norman in the end. He was Dr. Jekyll in an Iron Man costume. The real villain of SM2 was the arms, not the man. I feel like they deserve the chance to get what Tom Holland gave Peter: the core of the comic character distilled on screen. They're not just two Spider-man villains, they're THE Spider-man villains.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:50
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The Tinkerer is still out and about so I can see future films being about him.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:58
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An issue, I think, with Doctor Octopus is that he's a character who thrives on history. Without his history and context with Spider-Man he's not a very interesting character on his own merits except as the standard Dark Mirror Of The Protagonist. Spider-Man 2 shortcutting this by changing his character worked in its favor in movie form because it allowed a similar relationship in the confines of a self-contained story.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:00
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https://twitter.com/TheOtherJeff/status/884441034012459008
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Jul 10, 2017 17:03
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ImpAtom posted:An issue, I think, with Doctor Octopus is that he's a character who thrives on history. Without his history and context with Spider-Man he's not a very interesting character on his own merits except as the standard Dark Mirror Of The Protagonist. Spider-Man 2 shortcutting this by changing his character worked in its favor in movie form because it allowed a similar relationship in the confines of a self-contained story. Fangz posted:The Tinkerer is still out and about so I can see future films being about him. (I reckon he'll break Toomes out of prison in a future film too).
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Jul 10, 2017 17:13
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irlZaphod posted:This is kind of true of a lot of supervillains though. A lot of them start out as regular run-of-the-mill crooks, but continued defeats by Spider-Man/Daredevil/whoever change that. That's why when adapting for a 2 hour film a lot of changes have to be made. You can see in the first Raimi Spider-Man that they have a couple of small fights between Peter and Norman which they sort of use to drive Norman (I think it's at the Thanksgiving Day Parade scene where you hear him kind of scream "I'll get you for this Spider-Man!" as he flies off). It feels very rushed, though, and it rings a little hollow. It obviously becomes more personal when he finds out his identity. Yeah, which is why I think we end up with so many Dark Mirrors in comic films because they're by far the easiest ones to do with minimal changes. You don't have to but generally if you're not doing that then you should be doing more signfiicant rewrites to the character to make them work. (As in the case of Octopus and Vulture.) Green Goblin I think is easier because he's got the built-in 'Peter's best friend's father' thing to work with but he's also pretty overused at this point.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:17
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Codependent Poster posted:I think we'll get a Sinister Six in the end, because the whole reason that group forms is because "Ugh gently caress Spider-Man beating us all the time! We'll team up and beat him!" I hope we end with a Siniter Six movie and it's a billion times better than Suicide Squad 
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Jul 10, 2017 17:18
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That's why they usually raise the stakes for the villain. You don't have time to show the hero wearing them down over time, so you make it that he stopped their one big score, or getting their final revenge on who wronged them.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:19
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Is Shocker still loose by the end as well? I remember him getting webbed to the bus but I don't think we ever saw him get arrested.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:19
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I want to see Solo smashing through a window yelling "WHILE I LIVE, TERROR DIES!" while firing a machine gun in each hand. More seriously, as far as villains go, you could do worse than having Chameleon and Kraven as a team-up.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:23
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, which is why I think we end up with so many Dark Mirrors in comic films because they're by far the easiest ones to do with minimal changes. You don't have to but generally if you're not doing that then you should be doing more signfiicant rewrites to the character to make them work. (As in the case of Octopus and Vulture.) Green Goblin I think is easier because he's got the built-in 'Peter's best friend's father' thing to work with but he's also pretty overused at this point. SlimGoodbody posted:Is Shocker still loose by the end as well? I remember him getting webbed to the bus but I don't think we ever saw him get arrested.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:28
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irlZaphod posted:I don't feel that Vulture had too many significant changes though. He's made the father of Peter's love interest, but I think he would have worked quite well without that, and having him figure out Peter's identity some other way. I don't know. Classic Vulture has a lot more going on with his age/seeking youth and it kind of defines a lot of the character. The movie version is different but not in a bad way.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:32
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A Sinister Six heist movie a la Ocean's 11 with Keaton and other people. Sam Rockwell can play the part of Reuben / guy funding them.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:40
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I dunno, Homecoming felt like a middle tier of scope between the Netflix Marvel and traditional movie Marvel, and I think that's a good niche for Spidey. Vulture doesn't really want to kill Spidey, he's got his eyes on the prize and wants to be a profitable criminal rather than a super villain. If anything, I'd kind of be interested to see this Vulture reappear as a neutral party or even an antihero who owes Spidey a debt. An unorthodox thought that occurs to me is Mysterio could fit in as a guy who's out to disprove the supers - it's all just special effects. Maybe give him a Broadway stage effects background, maybe Hollywood, but I think Mysterio could be really fun as a guy who seems to have superpowers but at the end of the day is revealed to just be an ordinary guy.
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Jul 10, 2017 18:04
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Is there any way to make Chameleon a threat in a universe where they have those holographic masks from Winter Soldier? His whole shtick is kind of mundane by this universe's standards.
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Jul 10, 2017 18:14
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TFRazorsaw posted:Is there any way to make Chameleon a threat in a universe where they have those holographic masks from Winter Soldier? His whole shtick is kind of mundane by this universe's standards. It isn't like Chameleon is a threat just because he can face-shift. No matter what you'd have to establish him as someone who makes proper intelligent use of his face-swapping stuff to be a real danger. He'd not work as a main villain but absolutely can be part of an ensemble.
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Jul 10, 2017 18:16
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:A Sinister Six heist movie a la Ocean's 11 with Keaton and other people. Sam Rockwell can play the part of Reuben / guy funding them. Oh god, yes. Super bad guys heist movie would be the best.
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Jul 10, 2017 18:46
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They should just do the clone saga. Have Tom Holland fight Tom Holland in the next movie. He was the best part in the last one anyway.
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Jul 10, 2017 18:56
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TFRazorsaw posted:Is there any way to make Chameleon a threat in a universe where they have those holographic masks from Winter Soldier? His whole shtick is kind of mundane by this universe's standards. I'd say you have it backwards. The mundane thing he uses is his whole shtick. Black Widow may have disguised herself as a World Council member once but Chameleon does that kind of thing all the time. Also, the one that was used in Winter Soldier, was it like in M:I films where it is custom for that one person? Because Chameleon's all about being able to change on the fly into whatever he wants so that could mean carrying a ton of masks on him or having shapeshifting be his power. Doubtful he'd be the main villain of the film but he could help or hurt in so many different ways, like Mystique in the X-Men films. Also, the Chameleon's ability/power was always mundane by his universe's standards. By the time he got shapeshifting powers he was outclassed by other villains and heroes with the same power, but even in the very beginning all he was was a disguise expert. Masks, makeup, spirit gum, etc.
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Jul 10, 2017 18:58
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Madame Mask of a sorts, was on Shield with as mask that let her imitate anyone which got fused with her face. Killed by her lover while trying to impersonate an agent of Shield to get the drop on them, because he thought she was the real agent. On show her mask was said to be only one of two or three still in existence as far as the creator knew (news to which Ward immediately killed the creator saying "Let's keep it that way")
John Wick of Dogs fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 19:05
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Al Borland Corp. posted:We can all agree that in Infinity War the Beyonder needs to show up and Peter needs to teach him how to use the bathroom. The problem there is the sandwich he poops out was bought was in xmen, so Disney and Fox would fight over the rights to the poop.
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Jul 10, 2017 19:07
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I'm just worried there might be this sense of "we've seen this already" with Chameleon. They have to sell him as a unique threat and not just "he did this thing Black Widow did once", and I'm wondering if he's worth the time it'd take to do that.
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Jul 10, 2017 19:50
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TFRazorsaw posted:I'm just worried there might be this sense of "we've seen this already" with Chameleon. They have to sell him as a unique threat and not just "he did this thing Black Widow did once", and I'm wondering if he's worth the time it'd take to do that. There should definitely be thought put into how to make him an interesting, and I would say intimate, threat. Chameleon is good for heist-type stuff but especially in a story like Spider-Man's I think he's most effectively used for character-driven confusion and drama. And don't forget there were lots of people writing off Vulture because we'd already seen so much of Falcon!
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Jul 10, 2017 20:00
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I didn't really feel that because like, the Vulture can actually fight people. Chameleon is just a normal dude with a gimmick when you come down to it. He's not even really a good fighter. But yeah, I guess it's possible.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:02
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I want to see Molten Man on the big screen so my opinions are probably outliers anyway.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:09
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Liz has enough relatives that are supervillains, man. Let her be. Let her be for god's sake.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:10
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so apparently the actor for Steppenwolf never interacted with the cast of JL at all. Just did all his voice acting on a green screen and never even spoke to any of the other actors. that's not encouraging?
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Jul 10, 2017 20:18
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TFRazorsaw posted:Liz has enough relatives that are supervillains, man. True, but we'd just be doing the comics justice. Her husband was the Goblin Goblin so her family was already completely boned. Unfortunately anyone within one degree of separation from Spider-Man is also one degree of separation away from a supervillain.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:18
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At least we don't have to worry about Roderick Kingsley picking Ned out to pretend to be the Hobgoblin. Unless he's got a similar build himself.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:21
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"I'm the Hobgoblin!" "Ned, your glider is made of legos."
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Jul 10, 2017 20:23
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TFRazorsaw posted:I didn't really feel that because like, the Vulture can actually fight people. I mean Vulture in the comics is, forgive me for being slightly reductive, just an angry old dude with a wingsuit and they did a pretty good update of that concept for the movie and making him seem much more menacing, so if they decided they wanted to do a shapeshifting/disguise master sort of villain for a theoretical future Spider-Man sequel I imagine they could find a way to pull it off suitably well. Re: Vulture I wonder if the character isn't going to get hit with a touch of the RDJ effect. Keaton is getting just about as much praise and acclaim as Tom Holland is, deservedly so, and Marvel took pains to show everyone that he was still alive and "in the picture" at the end, plus his relationship with Peter in the movie is more than your usual generic supervillain overwhelming hatred. What I'm saying is I wonder if Marvel isn't going to look at that and work to include more of Keaton in future Spider-Man movies as a recurring antagonist or even a wildcard sort of character. It'd be interesting for the Vulture to become this version of Spider-Man's iconic foe as opposed to the more expected options.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:26
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TFRazorsaw posted:so apparently the actor for Steppenwolf never interacted with the cast of JL at all. Just did all his voice acting on a green screen and never even spoke to any of the other actors. Was the strength of Ultron's performance Spader being on set?
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Jul 10, 2017 20:26
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That's not that out of the ordinary. Bradley Cooper was never on set for Guardians either.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:27
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Was the strength of Ultron's performance Spader being on set? Spader interacted with the cast. Like. There was stuff off camera where they bounced off each other, to give a sense of what they'd be playing off of. When there's no interaction whatsoever and the actor is hi and bye I get nervous. I set my expectations low for Transformers where Peter Cullen has clearly never spoken to Shia Lebouf or Mark Wahlberg, but that's not a standard I'd want for Justice League. Kai Tave posted:I mean Vulture in the comics is, forgive me for being slightly reductive, just an angry old dude with a wingsuit and they did a pretty good update of that concept for the movie and making him seem much more menacing, so if they decided they wanted to do a shapeshifting/disguise master sort of villain for a theoretical future Spider-Man sequel I imagine they could find a way to pull it off suitably well. Vulture has a bit more meat on him though I think. His backstory of feeling slighted and wronged and his concern for his grand-daughter clearly informed the decisions they made with his character here - they reimagined it as resenting Stark and gave him a daughter, whose 616 and Ultimate counterparts conveniently are established to be related to supervillains. Guys like Scorpion, Sandman, they're career criminals more or less. Vulture had something to work with as a starting point. And apparently Sony wants to do a Kraven solo film so he's out. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 20:34
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