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Arglebargle III posted:Only two people were fatally irradiated in the course of the Manhattan project and that was two separate incidents so it looks like the Prometheailures the REAL stupid characters once again. Oh poo poo, the black goo is just the Demon Core. People keep dying because of careless stupidity, and it's all the inanimate object's fault.
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Jul 9, 2017 21:01
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Yaws posted:We get it. There's a lot of evidence to the contrary.
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Jul 9, 2017 21:12
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Arglebargle III posted:There's a lot of evidence to the contrary. Yeah, we should probably stop acknowledging those people
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Jul 9, 2017 21:28
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The characters *are* dumb. But it makes sense for them to be dumb in the context of the plot, where the crew are dupes and pawns by Weyland's design. You don't have to like it, but nothing in the movie should lead you to believe that the crew are being presented by Ridley Scott as a crack team of professionals, or that the scientific mission is anything but a cover for old Steve Jobs chasing immortality. That's just an assumption people keep jumping to. If the characters aren't presented as smart then saying they are dumb over and over doesn't win the argument, it's just missing the point. This isn't the Manhattan Project, it's the vanity project of an old techbro who thinks coming up with the iphone makes him a god and who has always treated everyone around him like objects. sean10mm fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 22:02
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I'm sorry I provided more material for you guys to circle jerk about how the characters are supposed to be stupid. Now get back to posting screeds about how Christmas trees are vital clues that Prometheus is a comedy.
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Jul 9, 2017 22:33
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The characters aren't crack professionals, but they aren't that dumb. The big thing to take away from Prometheus is that it doesn't matter if you're dumb or not - your survival is a matter of dumb luck and being careful and hypercompetent (like Vickers) means jack poo poo in the face of uncaring cosmic horror.
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Jul 9, 2017 22:47
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Arglebargle III posted:I'm sorry I provided more material for you guys to circle jerk about how the characters are supposed to be stupid. Now get back to posting screeds about how Christmas trees are vital clues that Prometheus is a comedy. Why are you being so weirdly hostile about a dumb monster movie? Alternatively you could actually try to have a conversation about the topic, I dunno?
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Jul 9, 2017 22:52
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Arglebargle III posted:I'm sorry I provided more material for you guys to circle jerk about how the characters are supposed to be stupid. Now get back to posting screeds about how Christmas trees are vital clues that Prometheus is a comedy. You are badly confused. There is no 'supposed to be.' There are no clues to a deeply-hidden message. We are simply writing truthfully and accurately. The characters are irrational. They take drugs, and have sex. That is simply true. Intent is irrelevant. You represent the moralistic position that the characters should not take drugs or have sex. Because they have sex, they are bad influences. Because they take drugs, they do not deserve their jobs. Consequently, the characters are unworthy of sympathy. And the film fails to provide moral instruction, like it should. We should see moral characters doing their utmost to avoid sin. The characters should be exemplars. The film should be a monument to them. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 22:55
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sean10mm posted:Why are you being so weirdly hostile about a dumb monster movie? This thread is the perfect metaphor for the film Prometheus. It starts out with a question that people have talked in circles forever, its characters are contemptible idiots and its conjecture is pretentious and boring. A few years later its one interesting character turns out to be exactly as brokebrained as he appears. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 9, 2017 23:19
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Pretty good critique of the latest alien movie, Alien: Megathread
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Jul 9, 2017 23:40
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Arglebargle III posted:A few years later its one interesting character turns out to be exactly as brokebrained as he appears.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:12
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Arglebargle III posted:This thread is the perfect metaphor for the film Prometheus. It starts out with a question that people have talked in circles forever, its characters are contemptible idiots and its conjecture is pretentious and boring. So you hope to dispel pretension by crafting 'the perfect metaphor', which is a car analogy.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:20
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MadDogMike posted:Prometheus on the other hand lacks the appropriate build-up or reaction to its screw ups. It's fine and dandy for them to have mistakes, but they don't feel earned. If they had spent more time selling Fifield and Milburn as less than gifted scientists it would have worked OK, but about the only thing beforehand they did (Fifield mapping the tunnels) sold the opposite message, and in fact had to be undone in an clumsy manner for the scene to work. If they had even toned the mistakes down, like Milburn is naturally curious enough to inspect the hammerpede but tries (and fails) to back off in time when threatened, or a better reason than "derp I can't use the map I just made!" for Fifield to get them lost, people probably wouldn't be bothered so much. But instead the characters come off as UNREALISTICALLY stupid and the whole thing feels like it happens just so we can see some gore. Which guts the horror of the movie since it pulls you out of the scene. Part of what makes Alien and Aliens such awesome movies to me is that the people feel reasonably competent for who they are. It adds tremendously to the horror when not only can you avoid feeling "these people are so dumb they practically deserve to get eaten" but outright see even being intelligent and careful can't save them. The Alien doesn't NEED its victims to be dumb to kill them, which makes it more menacing by default than a lot of horror. I'd like to point out that Shaw repeats several times that Charlie should not take off his helmet, even after they find out that the air is clean, and he ignores it because he is an arrogant risk-taking manchild. That is arguably the biggest mistake any character makes in the movie since it leads directly to the black goo breach and it was treated as such by the protagonist. Also, Fifield didn't have access to the map, he just released the probes that made it. The crew relies on Captain Janek to read the map, and when M+F decide to abandon their posts, Janek keeps helping the people actually doing their jobs rather than babysit the people who aren't. Millburn being naturally curious enough to inspect the hammerpede and failing to back off in time when threatened is exactly what happens in the movie, by the way. It was Fifield who was afraid of the dead engineer and wanted to leave, Millburn wasn't particularly perturbed and wasn't planning on leaving until his new friend put him on the spot. SuperMechagodzilla posted:Well again, there's a level of self-awareness that you need to take into account. When he assaults Daniels - "is that how it's done?" - David knows full well that that this is not how it's done. The kiss is mocking - mocking Walter's chastity, and Daniels' burgeoning attraction to him. Shaw's fate is the illustrated subtext of Walter's unrequited love. Any 'clumsiness' is intentional because, "alas, he's left this vale of tears." The creature on the ship literally joins a showering couple for a threesome and eats them. Also, Shaw is not just a collection of forensic evidence in this film- she is: *A holographic ghost, a visual and thematic callback to the Engineer "ghosts" in Prometheus. She has been rejoined with her Gods. *A myth, the missing scientist of a doomed mission to find God that even Daniels is aware of *A monument that David keeps for her bodiless grave. I see that gravestone as David's dedication of his utopia to the memory of Shaw, or maybe an indication that Shaw is now one with the planet. *Ridley's rendition of the Queen Alien, in the form of a Gigerized dead body from which eggs have been harvested In Prometheus, David tested Shaw's faith, and in spite of everything that happened to her she kept it. In Covenant, we see that she was rewarded, and how: David has destroyed the disappointing flesh and blood stand-ins for Shaw's god, an act that results in Shaw's spiritual maturation and ascendance. Her eggs are the vessels for spiritual purification of others. Her spirit permeates the planet, or at least David's lair. You would have known this, had you seen the film's official prequel.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:49
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Oh, so now Covenant is really the sequel to some anime trash from 1976 and not the sequel to Ridley Scott's Bloodiest Office Christmas Party Ever comedy?
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 02:49
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Trying to find the old Prometheus thread, but I'm having trouble with the forums search.Arglebargle III posted:I'm sorry I provided more material for you guys to circle jerk about how the characters are supposed to be stupid. As opposed to what? Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 03:12
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This is that post.
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Jul 10, 2017 03:27
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Arglebargle III posted:I'm sorry I provided more material for you guys to circle jerk about how the characters are supposed to be stupid. Now get back to posting screeds about how Christmas trees are vital clues that Prometheus is a comedy. People get really worked up about posting about movies they don't like when those movies are Alien movies by Ridley Scott or DCU films for some reason. It's weird, can you explain why?
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Jul 10, 2017 03:38
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Hodgepodge posted:People get really worked up about posting about movies they don't like when those movies are Alien movies by Ridley Scott or DCU films for some reason. It's weird, can you explain why? Also the Star Wars prequels.
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Jul 10, 2017 03:49
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People just don't like it when they are told their reasons for not liking something are invalid, or are because they are ignorant and shortsighted. Whether they are or not, people don't like to be told that.
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Jul 10, 2017 03:55
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Snak posted:People just don't like it when they are told their reasons for not liking something are invalid, or are because they are ignorant and shortsighted. Liking and disliking aside, people here can't even agree on the basics of what's actually in the films.
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Jul 10, 2017 04:05
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MajorB posted:The creature on the ship literally joins a showering couple for a threesome and eats them. You're getting ahead of yourself here, and away from the text. Two characters in the film are given an alien form, and these 'xenomorphized' characters are distinct: Xeno-Oram immediately imprints onto David, while Xeno-Lope matures in solitude. Xeno-Oram is obedient, while Xeno-Lope is rebellious. This is a vital part of the story: "You have to get close. You have to earn its respect." I'll go into more detail in my next chapter, but the point here is that Oram's xenomorph is not simply an animal doing animal things. We are not shown what its goal is - only what it does. And it does not eat. And then, Ricks and his wife are explicitly not eaten by Lope's 'morph. We are shown the bodies at the scene, uneaten. And there are no 'eggs harvested out of Shaw's body' that I can recall. You need to be specific about these things, because violence is characterization. And I haven't watched the anime. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 04:07
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Hodgepodge posted:can you nah SuperMechagodzilla posted:And I haven't watched the anime. This is what really needs explanation!
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Jul 10, 2017 04:57
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Arglebargle III posted:Oh, so now Covenant is really the sequel to some anime trash from 1976 and not the sequel to Ridley Scott's Bloodiest Office Christmas Party Ever comedy?
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Jul 10, 2017 05:56
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I don't even understand where they got 1976 from. It says right on the video name that it's 1985...
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Jul 10, 2017 06:00
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MajorB posted:Also, Shaw is not just a collection of forensic evidence in this film- she is: This is good.
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Jul 10, 2017 12:45
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Maxwell Lord posted:My go to reference whenever anyone talks about the Prometheus scientists being too dumb is Louis Slotin, who was one of the people at the Manhattan Project who put on an unnecessary and risky demonstration that ended up fatally irradiating him and most of the people in the room. Being smart does not mean you never do dumb things. Steve Irwin.
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Jul 10, 2017 14:44
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The idea that the Prometheus crew are idiots is often overstated, as if Vickers went to the nearest unemployment office and grabbed some randoms from the waiting room. It's about unprofessionalism, which actually is something in the academic world which can separate the people who are highly respected and the ones that aren't. Milburne and Fifield would obviously have the credentials to be there, but at the same time they aren't exactly in the top 1% of their industry or they wouldn't be spending years of their life on a wild goose chase. There's a reason why Apollo astronauts were able to fix potentially deadly issues while sounding like they were ordering a western omelette at a diner, it's because they were the best of the best, chosen because they had the makeup to be a professional regardless of circumstances. Milburne ain't that, you don't get Alan Shepard when you're throwing together a secret mission on the whim of Howard Hughes. Think about all the horrible incidents that we'd have had if NASA had hired astronauts just by saying "go get whoever you can find who's available and cheap, just make sure they have the proper college degrees". They'd have been technically competent sure, but for that kind of job competency is just the beginning.
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Jul 10, 2017 15:02
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http://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3445792/ridley-scott-teases-appearance-ripleys-mother-future-alien-film/quote:Ridley Scott Teases Appearance of Ripley’s Mother in a Future ‘Alien’ Film Ridley's coming after your extended universes.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:00
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GoldStandardConure posted:Steve Irwin. Steve Irwin knew to avoid hovering over a stingray so as to not resemble a predator and get stung, but tripped and fell on it trying to get a good shot and got stung like a hundred times in the heart. A horrible Alien Covenant styled pratfall in real life. Hell, even when I scuba dive, the most important possible thing to remember is to BREATHE so your lungs don't explode (while not rising too fast), which you think you'd remember, but then a tiger shark or manta ray or eel or something shows up and you get so interested, you forget your extensive training, hold in your breath, and start floating to the top too fast, which is too things wrong at once and turn into a giant clusterfuck trying to save yourself.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:03
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Daniels is Ripley's mother. Shaw is Ripley's mother.
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Jul 10, 2017 17:04
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If only Steve Irwin had been wearing a helmet...
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Jul 10, 2017 17:06
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No Ripleys
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Jul 10, 2017 19:10
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David is Ripley's mother. Duh.
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Jul 10, 2017 19:58
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I like the implication that David is actually going to set up the colony, and then I guess release successive Xenomorph breeds against it or something.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:00
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Snak posted:David is Ripley's mother. 
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Jul 10, 2017 20:01
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Hodgepodge posted:I like the implication that David is actually going to set up the colony, and then I guess release successive Xenomorph breeds against it or something. I hope that he actually only ever thaws out like 5 people at once, so he's doing a version of what the franchise is doing: Recreating the same circumstances and sequence of events over and over again to see if any of them are interesting. Like the next movie will start with 5 people waking up from their cryopods to a pristine colony module. David greets them and says "There was a catastrophic accident in space, the crew is dead. I have reached colony and set up this module. You are the first to awake and you will need to help me set up the colony for the the rest of the colonist, like the crew would have done if they were alive. And then... you know. Then show David cleaning all the blood, replacing any panels that were damaged by acid... then he wakes up the next batch. Someone starts to figure out something is wrong. David has Daniels's pod sequestered away in a shrine. Waiting for when he's perfected his process. Someone pops her out to find out what's going on. Etc.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:08
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Snak posted:I hope that he actually only ever thaws out like 5 people at once, so he's doing a version of what the franchise is doing: Recreating the same circumstances and sequence of events over and over again to see if any of them are interesting. So MGS2 meets Pandorum meets Alien? I like it.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:27
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In the last minute of the upcoming third film David finally has achieved true motherly creation from his own perspective and is about to destroy the once idyllic colony but then suddenly a huge Geiger-esque Elizabeth Shaw rises from whatever place they're in and Daniels and Shaw say in unison "DAVID WEYLAND...YOU ARE...............NOT....THE MOTHER!" and David runs and slides on his knees before throwing his arms wide to scream "NOOO!" loudly like Arnold Vosloo in The Mummy Returns.
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Jul 10, 2017 20:36
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Did the xenomorphs seem more vicious this time around to anyone else? My initial impression was that they were really pissed off, relentless hunters in Covenant as opposed to the more languid catlike Alien. Oram's offspring being so angry certainly makes sense, bashing itself silly trying to get Tennessee and Daniels. I guess Lope's is jealous of all the surviving couples.Calaveron posted:So if that lady weren't reaching for her gun the fleshy xenomorph wouldn't have attacked her? I doubt anything she could have done was going to prevent the neomorph from finishing it's kill. Rosenthal's head floating in the fountain sure was some image, eh?
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Jul 10, 2017 21:32
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Yeah, the Alien alien is nowhere near as intense. The ones in Covenant are wildly aggressive.
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Jul 10, 2017 21:46
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