|
SpaceCadetBob posted:So has anyone here gone vegan or even attempted to significantly reduce their animal product intake? I've been considering it more and more heavily lately, and it is funny how emotionally hard it is to consider it as opposed to seeing myself buy solar panels or an electric car or something. I've significantly reduced meat-intake. Losing weight and saving money is a real perk. Getting ahead of climate change-induced cultural change is only a small part of my motivation, though. AceOfFlames posted:I'm on a waiting list. Thanks for your concern. Good! Seriously. You come across as severely depressed. Also, see if you can get checked for nutrient deficiencies. Sometimes, depression has a physical cause which can be addressed. For example, vitamin D deficiency may cause symptoms of depression in some people and low vitamin D levels are common. Accretionist fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jul 10, 2017 |
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 20:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 06:16 |
|
|
Canada's on fire bro
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:gonna be fantastic when all those people die I'm considering investment in crow futures but I'm fairly certain it'll be completely ignored that all these people screwed everyone over.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 21:04
|
|
|
Do you guys think it would be worth it to continue to save for retirement? I'll be collecting in 35 years, will we be facing climate refugees and Mad Max-like conditions in 2053?
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 21:22
|
|
|
Burt Buckle posted:Do you guys think it would be worth it to continue to save for retirement? I'll be collecting in 35 years, will we be facing climate refugees and Mad Max-like conditions in 2053? If conditions exist in which it was, in retrospect, not worth saving, you're so hosed that nothing matters. Therefore you should save.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 21:24
|
|
|
don't go and spend your bank account on a diamond plated dildo but also do not bother with long term savings if you're below 30 and not already rich, imo
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 21:26
|
|
|
I expect we'll be sufficiently oligarch-dominated for wealth to be all the more important.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 21:26
|
|
|
My take is that by the time I get there, either "retirement" or "old age" will have ceased to be meaningful concepts I also make poor decisions though
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 21:32
|
|
|
Save the money, you will need it to purchase access to the survivor bunker
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 21:33
|
|
|
Fried Watermelon posted:Canada's on fire bro Just BC. The rest of the country is under a severe rainfall warning for the whole week. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 21:39
|
|
|
I'm increasingly wondering about the large-scale viability of vertical farming. Previously I thought of it as a techno-centric fantasy to avoid dealing with the need to mitigate climate change, or as simply impractical. However if we're looking at large scale disruptions to traditional agriculture even assuming optimistic carbon emission reductions then it might be something to take seriously as a way to help food security (or figure out how to grow wheat in the Canadian shield). Any thoughts? From what I can tell it's still an order of magnitude more expensive than farm-derived produce. On the other hand apparently half of all US produce is wasted. Maybe that's something to work on first. edit: Here's a related Guardian article I found interesting. Nothing fancy, just LED lighting to grow leafy greens for Manhattanites. Nocturtle fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jul 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 21:42
|
|
|
Nocturtle posted:On the other hand apparently half of all US produce is wasted. Maybe that's something to work on first. Looks like y'all can afford to lose half your farms before you need to worry about this
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 21:48
|
|
|
SpaceCadetBob posted:So has anyone here gone vegan or even attempted to significantly reduce their animal product intake? I've been considering it more and more heavily lately, and it is funny how emotionally hard it is to consider it as opposed to seeing myself buy solar panels or an electric car or something. I go on and off meat, imo the trick is just easing into the diet and not sweating the odd roast served by grandma. Reduce animal protein consumption in phases so there's no dramatic break that could push you to relapse. So start by eliminating meat at breakfast and lunch, for example by replacing a ham sandwich with peanut butter and jelly or red bean vegetarian chili. Instead of milk with cereal try oatmeal or grits with water and a spot of butter. Once you've done that start introducing vegetable entrees into dinner once a week, and then increase their frequency as it begins to feel more natural. So try making tacos but use black beans instead of beef, or experiment with other dishes with which you are already familiar. The key to making good vegetarian dishes is getting them really savory, so season generously with soy sauce, bouillon or stock. If you like vegetables try incorporating those with naturally high umami like mushrooms and eggplant into your dishes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 21:48
|
|
|
Salt Fish posted:If conditions exist in which it was, in retrospect, not worth saving, you're so hosed that nothing matters. Therefore you should save. Alternatively, enjoy life now. Conspiratiorist posted:That's almost verbatim my father when I told him I'm an atheist. I don't really know or care about what your dad thinks about your atheism, but saying "you're gonna die anyways" to people concerned about the future of the Earth is loving Stupid.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:02
|
|
|
Eating some pretty tasty beef jerky right now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:06
|
|
|
call to action posted:Alternatively, enjoy life now. If you believe that climate change is inevitable and that individual action to address it is pointless, why the hell are you worrying about it anyway? Just enjoy the life you have right now and prepare, in whatever way you feel is appropriate, for the future.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:11
|
|
|
Nocturtle posted:edit: Very interesting. I'll have to look into this vertical gardening.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:13
|
|
|
pacmania90 posted:If you believe that climate change is inevitable and that individual action to address it is pointless, why the hell are you worrying about it anyway? Just enjoy the life you have right now and prepare, in whatever way you feel is appropriate, for the future. Because I don't want it to be that way? I want the trees I plant at my house to get as big as the ones my great grandpa planted. I want the trails that I've built to inspire a love of the outdoors, just like the hard work of those that came before me inspired me. I want my kids to have the chance to do something great and have a truly fulfilling, happy life free of the exploitation of others. I don't want nature, something better than anything ever created by man, to be pointlessly destroyed. It makes me despair to think that building a better future may, in fact, be futile. I'd rather save for a fulfilling future; if that future will never come, I'd rather see the Great Barrier Reef now. How is this difficult to understand?
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:15
|
|
|
SpaceCadetBob posted:So has anyone here gone vegan or even attempted to significantly reduce their animal product intake? I've been considering it more and more heavily lately, and it is funny how emotionally hard it is to consider it as opposed to seeing myself buy solar panels or an electric car or something. It's because dramatic dietary changes go against what your brain prefers you to put in your mouth whether you are doing it for environmentalism, animal rights or your waistline. A political idea which has been seeing a lot of success in my local national politics lately is vegonorm, the idea that we gradually transition into more vegetarianism/veganism. For instance, my political organization exclusively serves vegan food alternatives for meetings and conferences. Similarly, we push for there being vegetarian/vegan primary meals days in schools and elderly care facilities with meat instead being relegated to the alternative on these days. It's not nearly enough in the grand scheme of things but by incrementally changing people's diets you avoid a lot of the hard mental blocks. I don't think I'll ever become a hard vegan but my diet has certainly become more vegetarian as I've learnt more about environmental science.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/abbeydufoe/status/884511193725120513 Holy poo poo. The temperatures hit record highs in the Mid and Southwestern US over the weekend. I can't even imagine 116f degrees. edit: Probably should have just linked this instead: https://twitter.com/NWSVegas/status/883494539377471488 OhFunny fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
Nocturtle posted:I'm increasingly wondering about the large-scale viability of vertical farming. They're just high-tech greenhouses, and both the tech and greenhousing are common so we're on the way. Best example is Thanet Earth in the UK. They're a single greenhousing complex which accounts for ~10% of the UK's tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers. My understanding is that LED growlamps are the recent x-factor. They're long-lasting, cheap-to-run, low-temperature and, at the high-end, designed to emit on the specific wavelengths used by plants. They're a huge step-up. The primary hang-up is that 'vertical farms' requires amenable crops. I don't know what that entails but I've read that these systems are best suited to herbs, greens and berries and that staples aren't well adapted to them (yet?). As the tech gets cheaper and better, and as climate-change drives up food costs/prices, it should get easier and easier to make the numbers on vertical farms work. Edit: And the full concept entails a closed-environment, which substantially obviates pesticides and means you can use single-digit percentages of the water and fertilizer that fields require. It'd be great to pepper facilities like this into the infrastructure. Accretionist fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jul 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
Easy meat to forgo is cold cuts. That poo poo is awful for you anyways. Make a habit of eating something else for lunch.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:20
|
|
|
call to action posted:Alternatively, enjoy life now. Ah yes, the natural extension of the argument against individual responsibility, go out in a hedonistic orgy of consumerism.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:25
|
|
|
call to action posted:I don't really know or care about what your dad thinks about your atheism, but saying "you're gonna die anyways" to people concerned about the future of the Earth is loving Stupid. Okay. Your worldview is narrow and stupid, and there's more to life than being concerned about (your definition of) the glory of mankind. In the first place, even if we're facing an inevitable climate apocalypse, it's a long death. It's going to be a gradual process that will continue long past the lifespan of anyone here, ergo, it's something that everyone here will be facing for the rest of their lives. That means individual action matters: what you do to improve your circumstances. Have you even considered that, as consumerism becomes economically unsustainable but for the wealthiest, people training themselves to consume less ahead of time might be good for them? Resilience against scarcity? That making connections in your community is important as way to strengthen your safety in case of natural disasters? Civil unrest? But what AceOfFlames has been crying about since he started posting in this thread is that, because climate change-induced economic effects mean he won't get to live comfy the American Dream that he was promised in his childhood, everything is absolutely pointless. So why is anyone even attempting to improve themselves physically, socially, economically or emotionally? Why isn't everyone else also weeping with him about the demise of comfortable consumerist western civilization? About the unfulfilled dreams of technological wonders and extraplanetary human expansion from the sci-fi shows of his childhood? Why doesn't anyone understand him? So gently caress that guy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:28
|
|
|
call to action posted:Alternatively, enjoy life now. The biggest hardships you're likely to personally face from climate change are going to be economic, at least assuming that you're a relatively wealthy first worlder. No one is saying to go and live a life of asceticism, but having no personal safety net is a great way to make sure that your life is super awful in a few decades in ways that are much less exciting and extreme than literally being Mad Max. The future of thirty years from now is still going to be completely recognizable, but shittier in a variety of ways that you'll probably be able to mitigate with enough money. Of course it's your money, so do whatever. Nothing wrong with spending it and enjoying life.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:31
|
|
|
Paradoxish posted:The biggest hardships you're likely to personally face from climate change are going to be economic, at least assuming that you're a relatively wealthy first worlder. No one is saying to go and live a life of asceticism, but having no personal safety net is a great way to make sure that your life is super awful in a few decades in ways that are much less exciting and extreme than literally being Mad Max. The future of thirty years from now is still going to be completely recognizable, but shittier in a variety of ways that you'll probably be able to mitigate with enough money. Whether it's a literal Mad Max world or not I will be wearing an eye patch, single shoulder pad with a spike, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:33
|
|
|
Salt Fish posted:Ah yes, the natural extension of the argument against individual responsibility, go out in a hedonistic orgy of consumerism. Yup, if you *really* get climate change you know that actually emitting more CO2 now is good if I enjoy it. Why cut CO2 emissions at all at this point? It is better to burn more coal to be slightly warmer in the winter than reduce CO2 and anyone who disagrees is a "optimist-denier"
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:33
|
|
|
Paradoxish posted:The biggest hardships you're likely to personally face from climate change are going to be economic, at least assuming that you're a relatively wealthy first worlder. No one is saying to go and live a life of asceticism, but having no personal safety net is a great way to make sure that your life is super awful in a few decades in ways that are much less exciting and extreme than literally being Mad Max. The future of thirty years from now is still going to be completely recognizable, but shittier in a variety of ways that you'll probably be able to mitigate with enough money. So your plan is to have a safety net that will last you 30-50 years? How much are you saving now, and what savings rate would you recommend? That seems like a tall order, considering how difficult it is to even save for a 20 year long retirement now. Are you fully aware of how much most people would need to save in order to have a "personal safety net" that would somehow be durable to the effects of long term climate change? Conspiratiorist posted:Okay. Please refer to my other post on this page regarding what I value. gently caress "the glory of mankind", and gently caress mealy mouthed nonsense like "building community connections". How, specifically and exactly, will you repelling "civil unrest" with the power of community connections? How will you secure your food supply? And the answer to your question is: human defense and coping mechanisms are a hell of a drug. A lot of people voted for Trump too, the wisdom of the crowd is a poor indicator for intelligence. call to action fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Jul 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 22:43
|
|
|
Did you guys read that article about the soil free indoor farming in Jersey? I mean obviously human beings are going to be drastically reduced in numbers no matter what but this would be a good technique if/when traditional farming in its current locations becomes impractical or impossible.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 23:06
|
|
|
What a shocker, goons unwilling to leave their bedrooms don't understand the concept of community resilience.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 23:12
|
|
|
call to action posted:Are you fully aware of how much most people would need to save in order to have a "personal safety net" that would somehow be durable to the effects of long term climate change? Saving and frugality are virtues. If you want to enjoy your life today you should live virtuously and take care of your mind, body and spirit. You dumb idiot.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 23:15
|
|
|
call to action posted:Please refer to my other post on this page regarding what I value. gently caress "the glory of mankind", and gently caress mealy mouthed nonsense like "building community connections". call to action posted:My opinion: what makes humans great isn't our ape-like forms or our weird dangly penises, it's our ability to create great things, great art, to provide for those others than ourselves, etc. If we can't do any of that I don't really see the point of being alive. Ethically I also think it's warranted if we really did Holocaust the rest of the Earth's life just so we can get cheap hamburgers. You can gently caress right off. Trabisnikof posted:What a shocker, goons unwilling to leave their bedrooms don't understand the concept of community resilience. Amen.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 23:16
|
|
|
What a shocker, "community resilience" remains a meaningless buzzword in the face of questions about what the gently caress it actually means. Keep in mind that if you actually talked resilience, like arming your neighbors or discussing ways to secure food, you'll be called a prepper.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 23:28
|
|
|
Accretionist posted:They're just high-tech greenhouses, and both the tech and greenhousing are common so we're on the way. Best example is Thanet Earth in the UK. They're a single greenhousing complex which accounts for ~10% of the UK's tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers. Interesting, thanks. There are some worrying similarities to other proposed technological "fixes" for climate change like carbon capture, in that it's a proposed solution that allows us to maintain our lifestyle but hasn't been demonstrated to be economical or scalable. Clearly it could never be used for cereal crops. Even if it does scale up it's a very "first-world" project, as it's not going to help the imminently displaced Bangladeshis. I suppose if it provides developed nations additional food security they are in a better position to help the developing world in the event of a climate-change induced food crisis. This is in the ideal world where the west actually tries to help the rest of the world instead of sucking out its resources and building ever bigger walls. Trabisnikof posted:What a shocker, goons unwilling to leave their bedrooms don't understand the concept of community resilience. You go to war with the army you're given.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 23:31
|
|
|
call to action posted:What a shocker, "community resilience" remains a meaningless buzzword in the face of questions about what the gently caress it actually means. Keep in mind that if you actually talked resilience, like arming your neighbors or discussing ways to secure food, you'll be called a prepper. Because arming your neighbors or building caches are the weakest form of building community resilience. Much more important is to create the culture and institutions within the community to improve the way the community as a whole understands the needs and characteristics of the community and develop community wide plans to utilize the resources of the community. It is far more important for a community to understand what food it needs, what parishable medicines, and how much than for that community to spend the same amount of resources burying cans. You can keep calling it a meaningless buzzword while cities and communities around the globe utilizes the concept to defend against natural disasters and man made ones, like climate change. Maybe some day you'll be able to help build resilience in your community too. Also as a side note, I'm pretty sure humanity is going to create better works of art than ever before even as climate change ravages us.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 23:34
|
|
|
call to action posted:What a shocker, "community resilience" remains a meaningless buzzword in the face of questions about what the gently caress it actually means. Keep in mind that if you actually talked resilience, like arming your neighbors or discussing ways to secure food, you'll be called a prepper. It means to make friends with your neighbors, help them out when they're in trouble, and depend on them when you need support. I can't believe I have to spell this out for you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 23:35
|
|
|
call to action posted:What a shocker, "community resilience" remains a meaningless buzzword in the face of questions about what the gently caress it actually means. Keep in mind that if you actually talked resilience, like arming your neighbors or discussing ways to secure food, you'll be called a prepper. Ever heard of civil defense? Stockpiling ammo is the loving opposite of building community resilience - as Katrina will show, the first thing the National Guard does is take guns away from the dumbshit "my house is my castle and my flooded lawn is my new moat" types.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 23:46
|
|
|
Paradoxish posted:The biggest hardships you're likely to personally face from climate change are going to be economic, at least assuming that you're a relatively wealthy first worlder. No one is saying to go and live a life of asceticism, but having no personal safety net is a great way to make sure that your life is super awful in a few decades in ways that are much less exciting and extreme than literally being Mad Max. The future of thirty years from now is still going to be completely recognizable, but shittier in a variety of ways that you'll probably be able to mitigate with enough money. Conspiratiorist posted:In the first place, even if we're facing an inevitable climate apocalypse, it's a long death. It's going to be a gradual process that will continue long past the lifespan of anyone here, ergo, it's something that everyone here will be facing for the rest of their lives. Exactly. Don't stop saving your money. The only way Western society will collapse in our lifetimes to the point where money doesn't matter anymore is if there's a nuclear exchange between the US and someone else- still highly unlikely. Unless you've somehow found a way to live 200 years? Do people understand how huge the gap is and how many other bad things can happen between "My lifestyle is diminished" and "Money is worthless; we've returned to a bartering society"? I think some people desperately want there to be a TOTAL COLLAPSE RIGHT NOW because that's a lot more exciting than what will most likely happen: a slow decline over several generations where your children have it worse than you, your grandchildren have it worse than them, and so on, until people have picked up the pieces and adopted a dramatically different lifestyle not based around the use of fossil fuels and massively wasteful consumerism on a large scale. The people focusing their lives right now around being more self-sufficient and consuming less are being smart; the status quo cannot continue and eventually we're all going to have to adapt. It's your choice how gradual this change is for yourself. Don't be like the current US government, which is working to ensure that the Carbon Bubble does not deflate gradually, but instead pops abruptly and destroys as many people's livelihoods as possible.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2017 23:54
|
|
|
SpaceCadetBob posted:So has anyone here gone vegan or even attempted to significantly reduce their animal product intake? I've been considering it more and more heavily lately, and it is funny how emotionally hard it is to consider it as opposed to seeing myself buy solar panels or an electric car or something. Yup. Reading some things like Fast Food Nation lead to a pretty significant decrease in my meat intake. In college I went from eating roughly two meals a day that had meat to about 1-2 times per week, something that I've maintained for over 10 years now (I tend to let this slide when I travel, but I don't spend more than a couple weeks a year traveling). I do remember starting to let it slide a bit 5-6 years ago more generally, but then I saw the impact that food has on the environment (and climate change), and got back to eating as little meat as possible. I do a good bit of home cooking, and I just don't buy meat ever to make this easier. If I'm at a restaurant, I look for options that I'll enjoy that don't have meat (or have fish) before I look at the meat options. Every now and then I get a serious burger/steak/whatever craving, and I'll indulge it, because then it's easy to move on and not eat that for awhile. That's a big lesson for people who want to try to reduce their meat consumption. Start out small, maybe eat meat every other day, then once that feels comfortable, every other. Find vegetarian foods that you like. I love Mexican food, and you can make a lot of good food without meat. Learn to cook red beans -- do it on a Sunday afternoon -- it takes hours, but you really just have to take a few minutes to cut up an onion and some peppers, toss those in a pot with the beans, add spices, and then let it simmer for a long time (it's a little more complicated than that, but you just need to check it about every 30 minutes). Learn to make stir fry with some veggies you like, or fried rice. It's pretty easy to do. I wouldn't recommend trying to cook with Tofu right away, unless you are pretty talented in the kitchen. It's pretty hard to get right, and you'll just end up hating life. For easy fake meat options, check our Quorn or Morningstar -- they do pretty decent fake chicken you can just throw in the oven. This is a good bit harder when you don't have people around you that support your decisions. Meat is so ingrained in our culture that the best way to find frozen vegetarian meals is in the Organic section of whatever store you're in. Regular companies just don't cater to that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 00:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 06:16 |
|
|
FourLeaf posted:a slow decline over several generations where your children have it worse than you, your grandchildren have it worse than them, and so on, until people have picked up the pieces and adopted a dramatically different lifestyle not based around the use of fossil fuels and massively wasteful consumerism on a large scale. The new optimism. Feels good man. The next double-beef burger I have is in your honour.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 00:55
|
|
