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some guy on the bus posted:I believe it's typical to gradually fall in love with it. Nothing you're saying is surprising to me. It's a game that keeps getting better until you're done with it and it keeps getting better in your mind the more you think about it. When I beat the first play through, I went "Well that was good, but it has nothing on the first Nier." Now I think it did surpass it. yeah, this is definitely one of those games that gets stuck in your head, for me it's been every couple of weeks I'll get reminded of something from the game and start thinking about it again It leaves a mark on you, which is something only very, very special games are really capable of
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Jul 10, 2017 09:43
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Momomo posted:Overall I felt the game had a less emotional story, but told it better than the first Nier. There's also no stupid plot twist that relies on the bad guys acting completely out of their interests, and I thought it was a lot easier to feel bad for the machines than the shades. I don't really see what was out of interest. Shadowlord and D&P had entirely different motivations and late game D&P are just desperately and poorly trying to salvage the situation.
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Jul 10, 2017 10:17
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How were their goals different from his? Helping him was literally their reason for existing, and they totally hosed it up. Also, naming the savoir of humanity the Shadowlord and Noire's personality was just nonsense from their perspective. People that actually think they're the good guys would not do these things, and it really annoyed the hell out of me that the game tried to pull that.
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Jul 10, 2017 13:14
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Momomo posted:How were their goals different from his? Helping him was literally their reason for existing, and they totally hosed it up. Because D&P are also conflicted by the fact that they're actually liking and sympathizing with the Replicants. Think 9S's constant screaming of "they don't think, they're just machines," and that's what D&P were trying (and failing) really hard to do. Yes, they could have killed Nier Replicant so that Nier Gestalt could take his body back, but the problem is that they were seeing how hard Nier Replicant was struggling for Yonah Replicant. These are people that they've been watching for over a thousand years. So yes, their intended goals are the same, but D&P have the added wrinkle of really not wanting to directly betray Nier Replicant. That's why everything fucks up. I also felt that you weren't supposed to feel "the Shades were the good guys all along." Every single person is a selfish, short-sighted individual, and that's the point. The Replicants are murdering what's left of humanity, but at the same time, the old humanity is absolutely refusing to consider the "new" humanity, Replicants, to even be people. Route B only serves to show that the shades have their own flawed motivations; it's not just to say "you're a horrible person," but to say "everyone here is kind of horrible in their own way, the world is hosed up." Keeping in mind Yoko Taro's inspiration from 9/11 is helpful for looking at Nier.
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Jul 10, 2017 14:30
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It's also worth noting that Gestalt Nier is recklessly forcing the issue out of fear, and as the entire Project that they're managing depends on his survival and cooperation, Devola and Popola have no real recourse to oppose him if they wanted to. Popola's " You think we have the luxury to STOP?!" rant speaks to that as well as their urge to do things despite how they feel due to being programmed entities. I also get the feeling that the Shadowlord thing is something that makes more sense when Nier is a naive 16 year old boy as opposed to a 43 year old man. The fairy tale quality of Nier's quest works as a manipulation of a child.
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Jul 10, 2017 15:15
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Momomo posted:How were their goals different from his? Helping him was literally their reason for existing, and they totally hosed it up. Shadowlord doesn't actually care about saving humanity, he just wants Yonah back and has terrible timing for his patience snapping. The only reason he's playing the role of the savior is because he was told Yonah could be cured eventually. Replicant Nier was probably never supposed to find out about the Shadowlord existing until D&P had successfully manipulated him into restoring Weiss and having him activate the Project Gestalt failsafe
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Jul 10, 2017 18:38
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Well so two days ago I got ending C because I really dislike 9S. I was happy with the ending tbh, same as when I got A. Today I decided to finish ending D before going to bed and also ended up doing ending E immediately and accidentally and then I deleted all my data even though I wasn't finished yet. It was amazing. I dunno if I am gonna replay, didn't even get to try multiple options for the D ending or Pascal but gently caress argh if you are gonna give me a choice of course I'll save them and also I lost three people's data cause I thought I couldn't get hit for a bit and peace in death is ok but a second chance is better and I can't and aaah. I didn't get enough sleep yesterday my head hurts I'm gonna sleep now bye edit: also C&D spoiler gently caress I destroyed a random ark of memories in C argbrfb piss
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Jul 10, 2017 22:35
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Squidtentacle posted:Because D&P are also conflicted by the fact that they're actually liking and sympathizing with the Replicants. Think 9S's constant screaming of "they don't think, they're just machines," and that's what D&P were trying (and failing) really hard to do. Yes, they could have killed Nier Replicant so that Nier Gestalt could take his body back, but the problem is that they were seeing how hard Nier Replicant was struggling for Yonah Replicant. These are people that they've been watching for over a thousand years. So they go through the effort of making a fake legend to have Nier destroy Noire, and then call Weiss a traitor for going against their plan and then fight to the death protecting the Shadowlord? The stuff you say would make sense, but their actions throughout the game just straight up contradictory. quote:[spoiler]I also felt that you weren't supposed to feel "the Shades were the good guys all along." Every single person is a selfish, short-sighted individual, and that's the point. The Replicants are murdering what's left of humanity, but at the same time, the old humanity is absolutely refusing to consider the "new" humanity, Replicants, to even be people. Route B only serves to show that the shades have their own flawed motivations; it's not just to say "you're a horrible person," but to say "everyone here is kind of horrible in their own way, the world is hosed up." Keeping in mind Yoko Taro's inspiration from 9/11 is helpful for looking at Nier. Not so much that they were the good guys, but that they themselves thought they were in the right. No one who thinks they're in the right is gonna call themselves the Shadowlord or talk like a supervillain to get people on their side. It felt like the game was just straight up lying in order to pull a gotcha moment. Much like Devola an Popola, Noire makes absolutely no sense as a character. Gestalt Nier not caring about anything other than Yonah makes enough sense though, I don't really have a problem with him.
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Jul 10, 2017 23:26
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Momomo posted:So they go through the effort of making a fake legend to have Nier destroy Noire, and then call Weiss a traitor for going against their plan and then fight to the death protecting the Shadowlord? The stuff you say would make sense, but their actions throughout the game just straight up contradictory. Weiss IS a traitor. The plan was to push events with Nier forward enough so that Weiss would be in place to do his thing and finish the cycle, but because he decides instead to nobly side with his friends. Which has the unfortunate side effect of damning the human race to extinction. They were banking on him actually doing his job, and his last minute decision to aid his new friends was quite literally the worst thing that could ever happen.
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Jul 10, 2017 23:31
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The reason Weiss betrays them is because they explicitly told Nier that it was Weiss' destiny to fight Noire, not fuse with him. And surprise surprise, he ends up shaking off Noire and fighting against him. That's the part that makes no sense. Did they want him to fuse with Noire and complete the project, or didn't they? Also the part where Noire is clearly evil. That was dumb too.
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Jul 10, 2017 23:38
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(Original NieR) I'd like to think the Noire thing was some jerk going, "Wouldn't it be really funny if we made one of the magic books that will save the human race sound evil?"
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Jul 10, 2017 23:51
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That's why Nier's the best, because the moral of the story is: love ruins everything.
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Jul 11, 2017 00:01
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(Nier 1) I don't recall Gestalt Nier ever calling himself the Shadowlord. I think either the replicants called him that out of fear or Devola/Popola called him that to try to frighten Replicant Nier out of going after him.
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Jul 11, 2017 02:03
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Pretty sure Noir also told Weiss that it was their role to fuse and join the Shaowlord. It was about the least convincing thing in the world.
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Jul 11, 2017 02:55
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Yeah, the real tragedy of OG Nier is that Grimoire Noire did such a poor job of explaining the actual truth that it came across as an evil villain "join me and we can rule" speech which toppled a whole lotta dominoes thereafter. Good job you stupid idiot book. 
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Jul 11, 2017 03:06
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CJacobs posted:
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Jul 11, 2017 03:23
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There was also the little wrinkle of Nier both not dying in the temple and beating Weiss into amnesia because he's kind of an idiot. If Weiss didn't lose his memory and magic, that would've taken care of the situation. Also, the person who was Noire before becoming a grimoire was kind of an rear end in a top hat, from what I recall of the short story.
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Jul 11, 2017 03:29
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So I've gotten to the B route, and I have to say I'm a little surprised at how much it's got me hooked so far (I've only just unlocked fast-travel): probably a combination of how overpowered I am thanks to a thorough A route and how much fun I'm having with the hacking minigame: It kicks your rear end at first but getting good at it is really rewarding and lets you punch way above your weight, which is really cool given how the only thing the A route could give you for that is the perfect dodge and witch-time. I'm interested to see what happens when the path splits in a little bit. I did not expect a stealthy 9S to be such a force of nature, it's actually kind of funny. And it's neat to see how some conversations change tone with him as the lead character, the writing in this game is super-tight Also rip Father Servo, I'm sorry I was an honourless dog for our last two fights. At least he made me markedly better at hacking 
ManlyGrunting fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 04:19
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Momomo posted:Pretty sure Noir also told Weiss that it was their role to fuse and join the Shaowlord. It was about the least convincing thing in the world. I might be wrong but IIRC the Japanese name translates more to something like "Magic King" so it makes sense there for him to call Gestalt Nier with such a grandiose title since Noir is programmed to be a huge sycophant
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Jul 11, 2017 07:44
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Here's my Automata theory I don't think the aliens built the Machines at all. I think that by the time the Emils managed to kill all the aliens they were so massively fragmented that they'd long ago lost track of who and what they were. They're trying to remember how to be human, and failing. The 'Emil' we meet is a relatively early-generation copy which is why he still has the face markings and some semblance of his personality, even if many of the memories have been lost. The Machines we meet are copies-of-copies-of-copies-of-copies (etc) on from that. They keep making copies and trying to remember, because that's all they have left, but they will never succeed.
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Jul 11, 2017 09:54
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Nina posted:I might be wrong but IIRC the Japanese name translates more to something like "Magic King" so it makes sense there for him to call Gestalt Nier with such a grandiose title since Noir is programmed to be a huge sycophant IIRC it's 'Demon King', a typical title given to villains in JRPGs. It's clearly meaning to subvert that particular kind of plot.
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Jul 11, 2017 10:13
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Kassad posted:IIRC it's 'Demon King', a typical title given to villains in JRPGs. It's clearly meaning to subvert that particular kind of plot. Kind of? It's definitely 魔王 (Maou), which IS a typical evil title, "Demon King". Magus from Chrono Trigger's Japanese name, for example. But the 魔 (ma) which in Maou means "demon", also means "magic", as in "魔法 (mahou, magic) and 魔装 (maso, magic element. So while I agree that 魔王 usually means demon king, the ma kanji is already used for a lot of non-demonic things in NieR)
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Jul 11, 2017 10:28
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Oh, I stand corrected then. I didn't think about how maso is written in kanji so I didn't see there'd be that extra layer of ambiguity with 魔王. I was just thinking about the fake out in Chrono Trigger with Magus being set up as the big villain.
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Jul 11, 2017 10:44
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ManlyGrunting posted:So I've gotten to the B route, and I have to say I'm a little surprised at how much it's got me hooked so far (I've only just unlocked fast-travel): probably a combination of how overpowered I am thanks to a thorough A route and how much fun I'm having with the hacking minigame: It kicks your rear end at first but getting good at it is really rewarding and lets you punch way above your weight, which is really cool given how the only thing the A route could give you for that is the perfect dodge and witch-time. I really enjoyed the hacking as well. Seems like people who did are in the minority. I may have actually enjoyed it more than the traditional combat, which was a bit too hack-and-slash ish.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:31
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I liked it because it was different, and let me fastforward through route B, so it worked great as a pacing thing.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:37
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Jul 12, 2017 02:39
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He should recommend his own game
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Jul 12, 2017 03:26
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Norns posted:He should recommend his own game No thanks, it's too sad
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Jul 12, 2017 16:15
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He should've recommended Drakengard 1 seven times followed by a middle finger.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:50
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So this is somewhat related to Nier Automata. I started playing Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valencia. While I'm looking up supports, I look up Alm and find his VA is Kyle McCarley, aka 9S.
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Jul 13, 2017 13:28
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Yoko Taro has excellent taste in games.
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Jul 13, 2017 15:47
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Meanwhile, I'm just starting this game and oh whoops the two saw blades kill my supply of Recoveries. AND my rear end. Oh hey it's the credits, sick I beat the game first try :woo: Now to consider replacing my controller again. The R2 is futzing up.
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Jul 14, 2017 18:33
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I wanted to play through again (having been a few months). Loaded up my dumb hard mode save from the very start of the game, died before I could change difficulty. Deleted the save, started up normal mode, died on sawblades. Deleted save, started up easy mode, finally made it...
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Jul 14, 2017 18:38
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Do you two just not understand how the dodge works or...?
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Jul 15, 2017 18:09
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Yeah we're the first people on the planet to ever lose on that part in normal mode, real shame.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:37
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No Wave posted:Yeah we're the first people on the planet to ever lose on that part in normal mode, real shame. Are you playing on a keyboard or controller? Analog sticks help a lot with dodging in any direction.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:46
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No Wave posted:Yeah we're the first people on the planet to ever lose on that part in normal mode, real shame. I think I died on easy, so don't be too hard on yourself (I got pinned in a corner and was too dumb to figure out how to get out)
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Jul 15, 2017 18:49
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Guys it's fine I beat the whole game on normal months ago (including Hegel). When you play dark souls in between you just unlearn the weird playstyle of this game, which is why not being able to save for the first 45 minutes was such a bad decision.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:54
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No Wave posted:Guys it's fine I beat the whole game on normal months ago (including Hegel). When you play dark souls in between you just unlearn the weird playstyle of this game, which is why not being able to save for the first 45 minutes was such a bad decision. It's really puzzling, yeah. The rest of the game isn't bullshit like that at all, so it's bizarre that they'd put the one part that is like that right at the beginning.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:55
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Ainsley McTree posted:I think I died on easy, so don't be too hard on yourself (I got pinned in a corner and was too dumb to figure out how to get out) If you have the auto chips turned on, that's literally impossible.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:04
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