|
Josuke Higashikata posted:http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2017-07-07/what-the-heck-happened-to-berserk/.117834 But it doesn't excuse the camera movements, the palette, the sound effects...
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 14:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 05:12 |
|
|
In a way money is still an issue, think about what it costs for miura to take a year to write a few chapters, vs what it would cost to pay a team of animators to work for a year to get every scene just right. They are working in a limited time frame, so there is always going to be a ceiling to how good the project can look vs what a manga ka could do in as much time they wanted.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 17:18
|
|
|
Budget is usually overblown compared to time and staff, but b16/17 MUST be a case of lowest bidder bullshit, because otherwise it's unimaginable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 17:25
|
|
|
Josuke Higashikata posted:http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2017-07-07/what-the-heck-happened-to-berserk/.117834 Huh, well that does explain why the first trailer ended up looking better than the same scene in the finished product. Also how they apparently had to downgrade the models because their computers couldn't handle animating them  Bloodyshinta1 posted:In a way money is still an issue, think about what it costs for miura to take a year to write a few chapters, vs what it would cost to pay a team of animators to work for a year to get every scene just right. They are working in a limited time frame, so there is always going to be a ceiling to how good the project can look vs what a manga ka could do in as much time they wanted. The only way to make a 2D adaptation that captures Miura's art is to do it like REDLINE. Which took seven years to make 100 minutes of animation. But really I think that trying to mimic Miura is a fool's errand. That art already exists, if people want it they can go read the manga. What you aim for is to give it the kinetic sense that the manga can't give you (at least, as well as an anime could). Which this anime completely fails to accomplish. The biggest problem is that the movement is stilted and awkward and weightless. You don't have to copy Miura's insane cross-hatching, animation is a different medium and has different tools to make it look cool when Gut swings his sword.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 18:22
|
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:Money is almost never the issue, pretty much every anime series has around a similar budget, it's what you do with it that counts. Only because like games, manga is a passion industry where you're expected to work insane hours for lovely pay. One has to wonder if the manga industry is even sustainable. Most of the most popular top mangakas, like Masashi Kishimoto, Tite Kubo, Eiichiro Oda, they basically give their entire life to working on it. I remember hearing one of them got married put delayed his honeymoon for like 10 years so he could finish the current manga run first, because he couldn't spare any time at all. And thats for the top creators, the guys doing the assembly line work end up working the same grueling hours but they don't even get the same respect for it, and they get really poo poo pay like SatansBestBuddy mentioned. Miura seems to avoid that problem simply because he doesn't care if Berserk takes its sweet time finishing, and he doesn't mind taking huge breaks between chapters. Which sucks but I'm glad Miura isn't killing himself with Berserk (any more than he already is). Doing a Berserk anime properly would probably require a similar disciplined approach to just letting it fall behind schedule in order to achieve the right quality. Begemot posted:The only way to make a 2D adaptation that captures Miura's art is to do it like REDLINE. Which took seven years to make 100 minutes of animation. But really I think that trying to mimic Miura is a fool's errand. That art already exists, if people want it they can go read the manga. What you aim for is to give it the kinetic sense that the manga can't give you (at least, as well as an anime could). Which this anime completely fails to accomplish. The biggest problem is that the movement is stilted and awkward and weightless. gently caress the animation in Redline was so good though. But yeah, trying to do something even approaching Miura's style in animtion is really hard. But like you said, the fluid action of animation could be a strength for something like Berserk. That's what we all imagine when we hear Berserk anime, Guts fighting and cleaving dudes in half in smooth animation so you can see it all instead of imagining it from frames. But that requires smooth animation lol. Ultimately though comparing the CG anime to the original anime I've really come around to admitting the action isn't really the point of Berserk as much as the more somber character moments in-between. The action is a bit janky on the original anime but the spirit of Berserk is there. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jul 11, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 18:31
|
|
|
clearly the solution to this problem is a live action version 
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 20:12
|
|
|
U-DO Burger posted:clearly the solution to this problem is a live action version unironically yes one of Berserk's major influences is the 1981 film Excalibur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc-4G0TUUo0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3B4oLj5fQM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZS3zzLY9s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doSjHWwHkvI it's not exactly Berserk-level pretty, and you're probably going to have to dial it back in terms of people and monsters getting literally chopped in half and flying across the screen and so on, but look at how much of it is carried by letting the actors emote in the middle of (unrealistic, but cinematically effective) pauses, even in the middle of raging combat
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 20:26
|
|
|
Excalibur owns and I would definitely say it's prettier than any adaptation of Berserk
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 20:29
|
|
|
here's a fun thought experiment forget casting Guts, that's boring cast your ideal live-action Mozgus
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 20:36
|
|
|
Jason Alexander
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 20:41
|
|
|
Willem Dafoe with some nose putty.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 20:42
|
|
|
i like Rutger Hauer for it myself everyone sees him and thinks Gambino but that's a waste
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 20:43
|
|
|
Exaclibur is a bit of a mess but I love it anyways because there's just not enough high-budget fantasy. Especially grounded fantasy that isn't totally over the top anime crazypants.Tuxedo Catfish posted:here's a fun thought experiment poo poo, you know what? Dean Norris.  Normal Mozgus  Angry / Happy Mozgus
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 20:44
|
|
|
Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 20:52
|
|
|
Pyrotoad posted:Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson. Nah he's Zodd.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 20:55
|
|
|
Ron Perlman is Mozgus, obviously.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2017 21:17
|
|
|
Brian Blessed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 00:19
|
|
|
Nebakenezzer posted:TBH the one thing in this thread I've never seen people argue about that the old Anime had a great soundtrack. What's there to argue about? Its the kind of music that he made the series to and for the most part it works in how its utilized by the show? To the point where its a loving CRIME AGAINST NATURE to not have Hirasawa in anything Berserk. Including any live action incarnation. I don't loving care if a marketing head demands little kids singing nursery rhymes as the big sword goes clang. I don't' loving care if the board of directors suggests that maybe, maybe we should get a bad cover of some 1970s-90s song to fit in with Guardians of the Galaxy Trend. Too bad Mr. President of Disney, y'all getting some Forces, Aria, and whatever else we need to get the man to actually care about what he's making. I mean, sure, it isn't just Hirasawa because even 97 needed other composers, but bring in those Japanese composers too and maybe anyone that could fit a surreal psychedelia to soft Electronica to primal violent beat. But Mozgus isn't necessarily important for the success of any live action Berserk, because there's one Apostle that would matter the most from beginning to end. Who the hell would be human form Zodd? Transformed would have to be a animatronic beast that could take some punishment, bleed and mouth the movements and actions of the actor in a specialized motion capture suit. But who could have the body and intimidation factor for a good Zodd?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 03:55
|
|
|
Idris Elba.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 20:43
|
|
|
Crabtree posted:But Mozgus isn't necessarily important for the success of any live action Berserk, because there's one Apostle that would matter the most from beginning to end. Who the hell would be human form Zodd? Transformed would have to be a animatronic beast that could take some punishment, bleed and mouth the movements and actions of the actor in a specialized motion capture suit. But who could have the body and intimidation factor for a good Zodd? Pyrotoad posted:Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson. RatHat posted:Nah he's Zodd. Seriously I think The Rock could nail it. He's just the right combination of ripped and goofy. Meadowhill posted:Idris Elba. Elba is more of a Guts IMO
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
Kevin Spacey as Ubik
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
Griffith... somebody like Jared Leto? David Bowie would have been pretty solid 
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 21:12
|
|
|
Carice van Houten (The Red Woman/Melisandre in Game of Thrones) as Slan?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 21:16
|
|
|
Really the only way to make Berserk would have been in the 80s. Arnie as Guts, Bowie as Griffith, Rae Dawn Chong as Casca...
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 21:25
|
|
|
maybe HBO will take up Berserk once GoT is done to fill in their grimdark oversexed medieval fantasy niche
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 21:30
|
|
|
Jedah posted:Carice van Houten (The Red Woman/Melisandre in Game of Thrones) as Slan? Yeah that'd work well enough. Slan's a pretty easy role though so lots of actresses could easily fill that one. skasion posted:Really the only way to make Berserk would have been in the 80s. Arnie as Guts, Bowie as Griffith, Rae Dawn Chong as Casca... I get where you're coming from, but I can't see Arnie as Guts. He's got the physicality for sure but his accent and way of acting wouldn't be a fit for Guts whatsoever. Idris Elba on the other hand, he could absolutely sell that kind of brooding anti-hero. Who else... Not Sly. Maaaybe Bruce Willis or Russel Crowe? Kurt Russell maybe. But yeah, I'm all over Bowie as Griffith.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 21:35
|
|
|
A young Mel Gibson is would probably be a great Guts. He could believably commit to the level of necessary rage .
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 21:39
|
|
|
Wachepti posted:A young Mel Gibson is would probably be a great Guts. He could believably commit to the level of necessary rage . Yeah, I was considering Gibson. He's cuckoo for cocoa puffs now so I kinda left him out, but a young Gibson circa Braveheart could probably pull it off pretty dang well. Lord knows he loves the torture scenes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 21:45
|
|
|
U-DO Burger posted:maybe HBO will take up Berserk once GoT is done to fill in their grimdark oversexed medieval fantasy niche god I hope not
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 21:47
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Yeah that'd work well enough. Slan's a pretty easy role though so lots of actresses could easily fill that one. Idk, Dolph Lundgren? Number one problem with casting Guts then, now or any other time is that he's enormous. I would go so far as to say that his giant size and freakish strength is his most defining character trait. His character has changed a lot over the course of the series from this frankly malevolent vicious figure of borderline madness and death at the start; to naive, melancholy bruiser looking for meaning during the Golden Age; to a violent, haunted depressive and then on to this almost zen, protective figure who's been through so much poo poo he's pretty much unflappable in the later stuff. I could see a lot of different approaches to playing the role but I think the unifying quality of his character is that he's big and strong and tough and has built a life for himself with some difficulty based on those qualities. Arnie is nobody's great actor but he could play that kind of role decently well (since it is more or less his life story). Elba is tall and fit, if the age and complexion are a bit off well so what, but he's very much a modern leading man and not the kind of edgy, musclebound 80s/90s action hero that Miura was rendering at the comic's start, which is why I wouldn't lean in his direction. It's also impossible for me to imagine him playing someone as uncultured and downright animalistic as Guts. While we're wishing for fishes, and in memory of Ladyhawke, we've got to find a role for Rutger Hauer.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 22:00
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Idris Elba on the other hand, he could absolutely sell that kind of brooding anti-hero. Who else... Not Sly. Maaaybe Bruce Willis or Russel Crowe? Kurt Russell maybe.  Bowie as Griffith would be too drat perfect, he woulda nailed the look and affect, especially when he was a younger actor.Idris Elba would be a fitting choice for Guts, too. Alternately, Tom Hardy as Guts? Both are solid choices, really. Kurt Russell as Godo the blacksmith, possibly? He's got that older, gruff look about him, and he's a fantastic actor. Dustin Hoffman as the King of Midland. Outwardly cordial, inwardly paranoid, terrified, plotting-behind-closed doors. Ben Kingsley as Wyald.  How would they create live-action Puck without it looking completely silly?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
pretty sure arnie doesn't break 6ft
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
DamnGlitch posted:Budget is usually overblown compared to time and staff, but b16/17 MUST be a case of lowest bidder bullshit, because otherwise it's unimaginable. Wasn't this studio the actual lowest bidder for the project?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 22:21
|
|
|
Bloodyshinta1 posted:pretty sure arnie doesn't break 6ft A subject of some debate apparently! Maybe Dolph would have been better then.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 22:23
|
|
|
skasion posted:While we're wishing for fishes, and in memory of Ladyhawke, we've got to find a role for Rutger Hauer. Like everybody points out, he'd be a perfect Gambino but it'd be kinda a waste, basically just an awkward, violent cameo. Jedah posted:Kurt Russell as Godo the blacksmith, possibly? He's got that older, gruff look about him, and he's a fantastic actor. Love all of this Jedah posted:How would they create live-action Puck without it looking completely silly? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98ujKSS3ppM They managed pretty well back in '91, with modern CG it'd be easy. Just have to cast someone who is the proper comic relief.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 22:29
|
|
|
honestly I think the biggest barrier to making a decent live action Berserk is making monsters that actually look terrifying instead of silly
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 22:48
|
|
|
U-DO Burger posted:honestly I think the biggest barrier to making a decent live action Berserk is making monsters that actually look terrifying instead of silly The Thing was all kinds of insane and abstract and terrifying; exactly the visuals you'd need for Berserk. But traditional effects are dying and that kinda stuff would all be lazily CG'd because the director can't be arsed, so yeah. You're probably right. Its not that they can't, but they probably wouldn't. Compare Alien 1 to Alien Covenant, even Ridley Scott doesn't know what he's doing anymore 
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 22:55
|
|
|
Well the problem with 80s action heroes is that none of them maybe outside of Deadly Prey would probably be psychotic enough to just scream GRAAHH and gently caress YOU to get that early Guts down if you want to start him right after the Eclipse and absolutely suicidal in his rampage. He doesn't need be the tallest human ever because you'll likely use some 6'0 or lower people for most characters outside of Pippin , who would have been a great role for late wrestler Professor Tanaka, and if you use animatronics for Apostle forms, they likely can give the contrast you'd need for Guts to look like he'd be up against a real monster. Really, outside of actually being able to lift and swing a realistic enough broadsword and get a good look down, Guts needs to actually sell some rage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 22:56
|
|
|
John Malkovich as the Snake Baron apostle. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 23:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 05:12 |
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:The Thing was all kinds of insane and abstract and terrifying; exactly the visuals you'd need for Berserk. Funny story, the Thing prequel from like, half a decade back was shot with animatronics and practical effects. Whole movie was done like that! Dunno how it would look on film but the behind the scenes stuff looked pretty rad. Then they added CGI in post because the producers didn't want to pay the effects team. Nor did they really want to pay the CGI team, so that was half finished as well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 23:15
|
|
