Trump Thread II: The man make a tweet

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Trump Thread II: The man make a tweet

KickerOfMice: Jun 7, 2017; [/color]Keep firing, assholes![/color]

Spaceballs the custom title.; Fun Shoe

WeAreTheRomans posted:

This is only surprising if you'd previously believed Don Jr. had a detailed understanding of the Act in question and the Republican position on it

I remember when the story broke that Magnitsky had acute radiation poisoning, and thinking man, what a horrible way to go. Somehow I missed the actual conclusion to the poor guy's story:

Wikipedia posted:

In 2009, Russian lawyer and auditor Sergei Magnitsky died in a Moscow prison after investigating fraud involving Russian tax officials. While in prison, Magnitsky developed gall stones, pancreatitis and calculous cholecystitis and was refused medical treatment for months. Finally, after almost a year of imprisonment and on the verge of death, Magnitsky was transferred to a Moscow hospital. There he was greeted not by a doctor but by a number of Russian OMON who bludgeoned him to death.

And then they put his dead rear end on trial. What the gently caress. That's basically something House Harkkonen would do.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-20626960

KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jul 11, 2017

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:29

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# ? May 28, 2024 18:08

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

the boston bomber posted:

Are they? Can you cite a source that says as much?

I mean, its not that I think this is all BS. I just don't want us getting ahead of ourselves here.

The Glumslinger posted:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:29

TheScott2K: Oct 26, 2003; I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

the boston bomber posted:

Are they? Can you cite a source that says as much?

I mean, its not that I think this is all BS. I just don't want us getting ahead of ourselves here.

Jesus Christ shut up

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:29

Demon Of The Fall: May 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Ague Proof posted:

Was this Louise Mensch or TrueFactsStated?

I'd love it to be true but don't believe those guys.

No, I wanna say it was in the GBS thread though. I was on lunch with my phone and now I'm back at my work computer and can't read tweets.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:31

nigel thornberry: Jul 29, 2013

The Glumslinger posted:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20

This is definitely what I was looking for. However, not sure this is the smoking gun it is being made out to be. That statute looks very complex.

TGLT posted:

From here.

Goldstone: "The crown prosecutor of Russia... offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary. ... This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin."
Donnie Jr: "If it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer."

That is pretty straightforwardly criminal. That is "hello would you like to commit the crime" "hell yes I would" levels of straightforward.

It really isn't that straightforward.

TheScott2K posted:

Jesus Christ shut up

What''s your problem?

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:32

CuddleCryptid: Jan 11, 2013; Things could be going better

the boston bomber posted:

This is definitely what I was looking for. However, not sure this is the smoking gun it is being made out to be. That statute looks very complex.

Good thing we have people who went to school specifically for this.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/884842721982246912

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:32

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

Demon Of The Fall posted:

I saw on one twitter that there is an audio recording of the meeting that the press now has, is this being confirmed anywhere?

Lmao i hope we get at least some tapes out of this circus

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:33

Hellblazer187: Oct 12, 2003

the boston bomber posted:

Is it, though? He wanted information for an electoral advantage, sure.

It is literally a federal crime to seek that from a foreign national. It's the same as soliciting a donation. It's not legal to ask for election help from foreigners. Donald Trump Jr. has already released evidence of all of the elements necessary to prove this crime. This is a big deal for real.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:34

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

drat. I thought this Russia email thing was going to sink Trump, but Ted Cruz just ruled it out.

quote:

Cruz: Barack Obama Is To Blame For Trump Jr. Russia Turmoil

�You�re not concerned about possible collusion or coordination with Russian officials and Trump officials?� CNN�s Manu Raju asked. �The Russians interfered with the election and that�s the intelligence community� �

�You�re being very persistent and I suppose that�s your job,� Cruz responded. �But let me point out the American people want the President to succeed.�

�I think that we have had eight years of Barack Obama showing nothing but appeasement towards Russia. Actually, if you look on substance, part of the irony of this media obsession with Russia, is that the Obama administration began with Hillary Clinton bringing a big red reset button to Russia, saying they were going to reset the relationship with Russia, so she and Obama were going to be friends with the Russians,� Cruz said. �That�s how they began.�

"If Russia reached out to Donald Trump Jr., who I'd remind you is a private citizen, it was because they sensed strength and wanted to avoid punishment from a strong American leader."

�The policies of the Obama administration were constant weakness and appeasement,� Cruz said again, before praising the Trump administration for its �intention to go forward with placing anti-ballistic missile batteries in Poland in the Czech Republic.�

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:34

Deified Data: Nov 3, 2015; Fun Shoe

I wish we could lock the thread for the 24 hours it takes every Russia revelation to lose steam and Nothing Matters to re-assert itself so we could all be spared the building hope and subsequent dashing that happens in real-time.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:34

TheScott2K: Oct 26, 2003; I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

the boston bomber posted:

What''s your problem?

You keep asking the same idiot question you can get answered any number of places without anyone having to do it for you, and every time you reply with "no but is it really..." It is, dude. At this point it's on you to "post a source" if you disagree.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:34

Demon Of The Fall: May 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Demon Of The Fall posted:

No, I wanna say it was in the GBS thread though. I was on lunch with my phone and now I'm back at my work computer and can't read tweets.

Nevermind, it was TrueFactsStated. Whoops.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:35

Hellblazer187: Oct 12, 2003

If you don't want to read a statute, here's some lawyers who will do it for you.
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/10/15950590/donald-trump-jr-new-york-times-illegal

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:35

ded redd: Aug 1, 2010; by Fluffdaddy

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/884842018786217984

:banjo:

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:36

nigel thornberry: Jul 29, 2013

Right, well clearly you all are trained attorneys and we should all just take your legal conclusions as the truth.

Of course DJT controls the Justice Department, so good luck getting any charges filed.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:36

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

DreamShipWrecked posted:

Good thing we have people who went to school specifically for this.

Here is a nice run down of it if someone wants it. 'm gonna just go ahead and quote it

quote:

Donald Trump Jr. met with a Russian lawyer in June 2016 with the express purpose of getting information the Russian government had supposedly acquired on Hillary Clinton, according to a New York Times report published on Monday night.

Trump Jr. then confirmed the story on Tuesday on Twitter by releasing the actual emails between him and British publicist Rob Goldstone setting up the meeting � emails that proved without a shadow of a doubt that the Trump Jr. was told beforehand that the information he would be getting came from the Russian government.

�This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government�s support for Mr. Trump,� Goldstone wrote to Trump Jr. � �If it�s what you say I love it,� he replied.

Trump Jr. had already admitted in a statement that he took the meeting with the Russian attorney, a woman named Natalia Veselnitskaya, to get useful information on Hillary Clinton. His defense of his actions was that the meeting didn�t bear fruit: that �it quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information.� In other words, there�s no way this constituted meaningful collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia because Veselnitskaya didn�t provide him with anything useful.

But experts on national security and election law say this �defense� is, legally speaking, no defense at all.

�The emails are simply put damning as a legal matter,� explains Ryan Goodman, a former Defense Department special counsel and current editor of the legal site Just Security. �The text of the emails provide very clear evidence of participation in a scheme to involve the Russian government in federal election interference, in a form that is prohibited by federal criminal law.�

Jens David Ohlin, a law professor at Cornell University, is even blunter: �It�s a shocking admission of a criminal conspiracy.�

Trump Jr.�s decision to take the meeting in and of itself likely violated campaign finance law, which does not require you to actually get anything useful from foreigners. In other words, the mere fact that Trump Jr. asked for information from a Russian national about Clinton might have constituted a federal crime.

�The law states that no person shall knowingly solicit or accept from a foreign national any contribution to a campaign of an item of value,� Goodman tells me. �There is now a clear case that Donald Trump Jr. has met all the elements of the law, which is a criminally enforced federal statute.�
Why Trump Jr. may have broken the law

The statute in question is 52 USC 30121, 36 USC 510 � the law governing foreign contributions to US campaigns. There are two key passages that apply here. This is the first:

A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

The crucial phrase here is �other thing of value,� legal experts tell me. It means that the law extends beyond just cash donations. Foreigners are also banned from providing other kinds of contributions that would be the functional equivalent of a campaign donation, just provided in the form of services rather than goods. Like, say, damaging information the Russian government collected about Hillary Clinton.

�To the extent you�re using the resources of a foreign country to run your campaign � that�s an illegal campaign contribution,� Nick Akerman, an assistant special prosecutor during the Watergate investigation who now specializes in data crime, says.

Here�s the second important passage of the statute: �No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by [this law].�

The key word from Trump Jr., according to University of California Irvine election law expert Rick Hasen, is �solicit,� which has a very specific meaning in this context. To quote the relevant statute:

A solicitation is an oral or written communication that, construed as reasonably understood in the context in which it is made, contains a clear message asking, requesting, or recommending that another person make a contribution, donation, transfer of funds, or otherwise provide anything of value.

Trump Jr. was clearly soliciting information that he knew was coming from a foreign source. Given that political campaigns regularly pay thousands of dollars to opposition researchers to dig up dirt, it seems like damaging information on Clinton would constitute something �of value� to the Trump campaign.

The solicitation bit is why it doesn�t matter if Trump Jr. actually got useful information. The part that�s illegal, according to the experts I spoke to, is trying to acquire dirt on Clinton from a foreign source, not successfully acquiring it. And his statement more or less admits that he did, in fact, solicit this information.

�The most recent [developments] are especially significant because they include specific statements on the record conceding the Trump campaign�s expressed interest in what the Russians could provide,� Bob Bauer, White House counsel for Barack Obama from 2010 to 2011, writes at Just Security. �Those statements show intent � a clear-cut willingness to have Russian support � and they reveal specific actions undertaken to obtain it.�

Trump appears to have recognized some danger. On Monday afternoon, he hired a lawyer, Alan Futerfas, to represent him on issues relating to the Russia investigation. So far, Futerfas has not responded to a request for comment.
The emails blows the best defense he has out of the water

In order to actually nail Donald Trump Jr. on solicitation charges, experts say, prosecutors need to be able to show that he knew the person he was soliciting emails from a foreign source. Trump Jr.�s Sunday statement gave him a tiny bit of wiggle room on this point. In it, he said: �I was not told her name prior to the meeting,� implying that he didn�t know much about the person he was meeting � perhaps including, among other things, her nationality.

According to Goodman, the former Defense Department special counsel, this line was the one thing that kept Trump Jr.�s statement of from being a clear-cut confession of having violated the law. But the emails, he thinks, blow this excuse out of the water. They show that Trump Jr. went into the meeting with knowledge that he was going to the meeting in an attempt to solicit information from the Russian government.

If Bauer, Goodman, and Hasen are reading the statute correctly, then Trump Jr. has now openly admitted damaging facts that prosecutors would otherwise need to prove to make a case against him. And now we�ve seen emails that prove Trump Jr.�s intent was to solicit information from a foreign source. It seems hard to imagine federal prosecutors won�t look at that.

�I�d want to get everyone who was involved in that meeting in front of a grand jury, and find out what they say about what happened there,� Akerman, the former Watergate prosecutor, said when asked what he�d do in light of the recent news.

Mr. Futerfas certainly has his work cut out for him. So, too, to the attorneys representing Jared Kushner and former Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort, who attended the meeting and were CC�d on the crucial email. �The emails also directly implicate Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort, who are included on the entire email chain,� Goodman says.

And now the question becomes: What did the president know and when did he know it?

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/10/15950590/donald-trump-jr-new-york-times-illegal

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:36

Total Party Kill: Aug 25, 2005

it aint over
https://twitter.com/adamgoldmanNYT/status/884837027916763137

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:36

No Butt Stuff: Jun 10, 2004

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

drat. I thought this Russia email thing was going to sink Trump, but Ted Cruz just ruled it out.

Reminder that Donald Trump said that this man's father killed JFK and that he had an ugly wife.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:36

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

the boston bomber posted:

Obviously the optics of all this look terrible, but can someone explain to me how this is going to the crushing blow that finally destroys the administration of DJT? Because frankly I am little worried that all this excitement is for nothing. DJT has weathered terrible optics before, and he certainly can do so again.

I mean, I'm no lawyer, but as far as I can see, this meeting did not break any laws. Anyone who understands the relevant laws that could have been broken would definitely do us all a favor by explaining the implications of this meeting. The RWM has been screaming for years that Hillary is criminal. That doesn't make it so. Likewise, this meeting without any context doesn't seem to make a criminal out of DJT Jr.

At the very least we know Kushner was in on the meeting and didn't put it on his SF-86 which he filled out for his security clearance because had he done so the FBI would have known of the meeting yet reports are that the FBI just learned of it from The NY Times reporting.

Now the government is usually ok with missing things on the form as long as you can convince them it was unintentional and make efforts to fix it, but Kushner already burned his "oops clerical error" mulligan when he had to submit a revised SF-86 in response to getting caught meeting with other Russians.

The logical conclusion is that he intentionally omitted the information and filed an incomplete form to hide contacts with representatives of a foreign government. If he weren't the POTUS's son in law that would at bare minimum would result in his security clearance being immediately revoked and probably would bring him 5 years in jail.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:36

swimgus: Oct 24, 2005; Camlin bought me this account because I'm a Jew!

KickerOfMice posted:

I remember when the story broke that Magnitsky had acute radiation poisoning, and thinking man, what a horrible way to go. Somehow I missed the actual conclusion to the poor guy's story:

And then they put his dead rear end on trial. What the gently caress.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-20626960

You're thinking of Litvininenko, who got poisoned with Polonium in Britain for talking poo poo about Putin. Magnitsky uncovered a theft committed by Putin's friends of 230 million dollars from the Russian government. He was arrested in Moscow, then thrown into a terrible prison for a year and didn't receive any medical treatment for several acute illnesses, then was beaten to death 7 days before the government had to charge him or release him. Then he was charged and convicted of the crimes relating to the theft he uncovered. After he was dead.

He worked for some rich American dude that got really pissed off about it and lobbied for the Magnitsky Act to specifically punish all the people connected to his employee's death.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:36

TheScott2K: Oct 26, 2003; I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

the boston bomber posted:

Right, well clearly you all are trained attorneys and we should all just take your legal conclusions as the truth.

Of course DJT controls the Justice Department, so good luck getting any charges filed.

"How do you know? Where did you go to law school???"

Jesus Christ shut up.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:37

nigel thornberry: Jul 29, 2013

TheScott2K posted:

You keep asking the same idiot question you can get answered any number of places without anyone having to do it for you, and every time you reply with "no but is it really..." It is, dude. At this point it's on you to "post a source" if you disagree.

It isn't an idiot question. But you believe what you want. Sorry I interrupted your circle jerk.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:37

Tart Kitty: Dec 17, 2016; Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

Vedius Pollio posted:

As a follow up, I can't wait to see terribly animated winged skeleton ghosts emerge out of the dessicated husks of Trump's entire cabinet and fly away into the nightmare hearts of the GOP congress.

Two words: soul tornado.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:37

pkay: Jan 4, 2005; "You and your ilk just made me vote downticket R in the midterms."
- a black man (- a magachud)

Not to mention Manafort and Kushner failing to disclose this meeting on their SF-86.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:37

ThePeavstenator: Dec 18, 2012; Establish the Buns

the boston bomber posted:

Right, well clearly you all are trained attorneys and we should all just take your legal conclusions as the truth.

Of course DJT controls the Justice Department, so good luck getting any charges filed.

That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works. Shut the gently caress up.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:38

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

BRISTOL PALINS BABY posted:

it aint over
https://twitter.com/adamgoldmanNYT/status/884837027916763137

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBRFYNI420M

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:38

TheScott2K: Oct 26, 2003; I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

the boston bomber posted:

It isn't an idiot question. But you believe what you want. Sorry I interrupted your circle jerk.

This thread is for discussing events, not stopping everything to provide you, personally, with resources to convince you that things have in fact happened. Jesus Christ shut up.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:39

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Who the gently caress is Russia's crown prosecutor, this position literally does not exist

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:39

KickerOfMice: Jun 7, 2017; [/color]Keep firing, assholes![/color]

Spaceballs the custom title.; Fun Shoe

swimgus posted:

You're thinking of Litvininenko

Yes I was, thx. Putin assassinates so many people I have actually not been able to keep them straight. Fun!

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:39

Oxxidation: Jul 22, 2007

the boston bomber posted:

Right, well clearly you all are trained attorneys and we should all just take your legal conclusions as the truth.

Of course DJT controls the Justice Department, so good luck getting any charges filed.

There are several Actual Lawyers who post in this thread and one of the most laconic ones is gibbering and chewing on the walls at this news, so that's a nice sign.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:39

nigel thornberry: Jul 29, 2013

ThePeavstenator posted:

That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works. Shut the gently caress up.

Very nuanced analysis you got there, friend.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:39

mdemone: Mar 14, 2001

the boston bomber posted:

It isn't an idiot question. But you believe what you want. Sorry I interrupted your circle jerk.

You've actually had several people point you to articles where actual trained lawyers conclude the DJT Jr. has just confessed to a federal crime.

But for some reason you don't respond to those posts. You're just asking questions.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:39

TheScott2K: Oct 26, 2003; I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

Vegetable posted:

Who the gently caress is Russia's crown prosecutor, this position literally does not exist

It's their equivalent to the Marshall of the Supreme Court

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:39

ThisIsWhyTrumpWon: Jun 22, 2017; by Smythe

TheScott2K posted:

Jesus Christ shut up

Why is your avatar a link to video piracy? :filez:

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:40

mdemone: Mar 14, 2001

Vegetable posted:

Who the gently caress is Russia's crown prosecutor, this position literally does not exist

Goldstone is an idiot, he means the Prosecutor General, who is appointed by Putin directly.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:40

ThePeavstenator: Dec 18, 2012; Establish the Buns

the boston bomber posted:

Very nuanced analysis you got there, friend.

"I DON'T SEE ANYTHING TELLING ME I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THIS!" I scream as I continue to repeatedly slam my own head in a door, despite the protests of onlookers.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:40

aware of dog: Nov 14, 2016

BRISTOL PALINS BABY posted:

it aint over
https://twitter.com/adamgoldmanNYT/status/884837027916763137

Give us more emails, I need them

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:40

Shifty Nipples: Apr 8, 2007

I understand that things mater but it's loving wearing on me that people who are shown to be criminals are not being arrested and are still holding their positions of power.

# ? Jul 11, 2017 19:41