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Slime posted:After finally getting a few games on Horizon, I have to wonder what the gently caress is this map. It feels so...unsatisfying to play on. Well it's a 2CP map so that follows.
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Jul 11, 2017 21:42
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I'm sure the low-g part was just so they had an excuse to add it to the arcade.
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Jul 11, 2017 21:47
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Slime posted:After finally getting a few games on Horizon, I have to wonder what the gently caress is this map. It feels so...unsatisfying to play on. There's not much point to going out into the low-g area beyond a quickie flank and then when you actually get to where people are likely to be it makes a BIG LOUD AIRLOCK NOISE, negating the point of the silence of the low-g area. Its still quieter than some heroes.   REAPOSITIONING
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Jul 11, 2017 22:05
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berenzen posted:Sombra's not that great of a peeler though, the hack requires you to not get hit by damage, and 3/4s of the heroes you just mentioned there do cleave damage, which will interrupt the hack, and one of them has a barrier that he can kite the hack through. Ideally you hack the target while they're trying to eat your Zenyatta then he embarrasses them with a couple orbs and you're off doing, idk, other Sombra things. Hack does notify the target, but I don't think it gives directional input and the .8s cast time frequently doesn't offer the hack-ee enough time to locate and engage the Sombra. Hacking Winston isn't great, you've probably landed it right after he lept and he cast barrier while you were hacking so you've added all of a second to his leap cooldown. D.Va is a great hack target, just shoot her from out of her range if she's not matrixing and then hack her when she right clicks. Genji and Tracer are just excellent targets (and really only winston has cleave, Genji/Tracer/D.Va all have spread shots). But this is assuming a single flanker, not 4 piling on top of you, in which case Sombra is completely ineffective because even if she hacks one the other 3 just squish her. Or she has EMP and wins the team fight because EMP is super good. ^burtle posted:I'm sure the low-g part was just so they had an excuse to add it to the arcade. Pretty sure the devs have addressed this: They thought low-g would be super cool, but then they playtested it and it hosed the balance up so bad that they had to remove it from the map but they left a little in because they did a bunch of work on it and didn't want it to be totally ignored/custom games realm. The Blue Caboose fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 22:22
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Missed opportunity with Sombra, but I think I would enjoy a hero ability that completely blinded enemies for a couple of seconds. Or longer as an ultimate.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:26
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https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757707113?page=6#post-102 We're testing some stuff internally for Roadhog. The focus of changes we're trying are around his defenses, rather than his offensive capabilities. Even though the hook combo is weaker now he can still dish out a lot of damage over all. If he had some more suitability he would be in a better place. 🤔
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Jul 11, 2017 22:28
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"roadhog's large hitbox and low movement speed makes him an easy target. to compensate, we've given him a unicycle" gotta wonder what they mean when they say they're focusing on his defenses. I doubt they're gonna replace an ability but there is precedent with symmetra. give him armor? shields? or maybe the self heal will give him something beyond healing. maybe a timed self buff or something
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Jul 11, 2017 22:34
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quote:Geoff Goodman They're putting more meat on him. That's what he needs, being fatter. e: f;b
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Jul 11, 2017 22:36
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Wouldn't giving him more "health" just make him more of an ult battery for the enemy?
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Jul 11, 2017 22:38
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Fantastic. "Hey guys, we gutted this character on a whim, whoopsie, to make up for it now you can feed with him even harder than before."
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Jul 11, 2017 22:38
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that post says nothing even remotely resembling "we're giving roadhog more health". making him more survivable would help but idk how they plan to do that. can't imagine it'd be straight dr but I guess they could put that as a temp buff to replace (or put on top of) the self heal
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Jul 11, 2017 22:41
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berenzen posted:Sombra's not that great of a peeler though, the hack requires you to not get hit by damage, and 3/4s of the heroes you just mentioned there do cleave damage, which will interrupt the hack, and one of them has a barrier that he can kite the hack through. 99% of the time, the targets you are peeling are coming for someone who is not Sombra, ie the healer or something like that, which makes it straight forward hacking them. The other 1% are people hellbent on killing you for being a Sombra, or Winstons that think they counter you. Do not hack Winston on his way in with a leap. Hack needs to be available when his bubble pops. To survive and kill Winston, you can't let him take you by surprise. The same way you always have to be aware of Genji when you're a sniper or healer, you always have to be aware of Winston, Rein, Hog as Sombra. They're good targets, but you can't let them get the jump on you because the way their kit shits all over you. Hack has about twice the range of Winstons gun. As long as you get the hell away from his landing site, you are in control of the situation. Shoot his bubble. If you get help, it'll pop before his leap is off cooldown, at which you point you hack him and make him dead. If no one helps with the bubble, you need to place the translocator while he is waiting for his leap and then teleport away when he leaps - at which point you do the same thing over. You work on the bubble, and bail if you don't get help. Winston should only ever catch you by zoning you into other enemies. If he gets greedy and goes outside his bubble to chase you, he dies. Getting leapt on by Winston isn't instant death the same way a Rein charge will be. You have exactly 2.5 seconds before your health is gone. Translocator needs to be placed ahead of time or be flying through the air to as the furball falls on you. It doesn't matter if he landed on you and hurt you as long as you relocate. That's when you resume the bubble/hack stand off. You can be at 1 hp and still successfully 1v1 him when you're in control of the distance. Again, the only danger is other people taking potshots at you. Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 22:43
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turtlecrunch posted:https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757707113?page=6#post-102
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Jul 11, 2017 22:44
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Manatee Cannon posted:that post says nothing even remotely resembling "we're giving roadhog more health". making him more survivable would help but idk how they plan to do that. can't imagine it'd be straight dr but I guess they could put that as a temp buff to replace (or put on top of) the self heal wit posted:I really just want him to have boop ability with his melee. Its all I want.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:45
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wit posted:Its all I want. hosed up but true: melee having knockback would legit nerf roadhog. if you flub the hook combo, congrats on saving them from your follow up shot by punting them across the room! you'd most likely end up knocking people far enough away that you won't get much out of your primary but not far enough away to use your secondary. then you'd die
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Jul 11, 2017 22:48
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turtlecrunch posted:https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757707113?page=6#post-102 Translation: "We're moving Roadhog to the Defense category."
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Jul 11, 2017 22:50
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Replace Hogs ult with the Shredstorm Cannon from XCOM2
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Jul 11, 2017 22:51
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Manatee Cannon posted:that post says nothing even remotely resembling "we're giving roadhog more health". making him more survivable would help but idk how they plan to do that. can't imagine it'd be straight dr but I guess they could put that as a temp buff to replace (or put on top of) the self heal Roadhog will be given a deployable barrier.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:56
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turtlecrunch posted:https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20757707113?page=6#post-102 Give him a passive where when he takes damage, instead of taking it all at once, he takes it over the next 1 or 2 seconds (or something). He can huff gas to end this effect. Makes him much more survivable while fixing the ult feed issue.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:57
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If Roadhog is his current form became good purely due to survivability buffs he would be an absurdly miserable bullet sponge of a hero.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:59
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There I fixed Roadhog.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:00
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Father Wendigo posted:Translation: "We're moving Roadhog to the Defense category." Move roadhog to defense, move Mei to tank. Problem solved.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:07
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Irony Be My Shield posted:If Roadhog is his current form became good purely due to survivability buffs he would be an absurdly miserable bullet sponge of a hero. As opposed to Reinhardt?
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Jul 11, 2017 23:07
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Splinter posted:
This'd be a pretty interesting change. Make him more of a discouragment tank - if you're going to shoot him, better be drat sure you'll kill him, or else your just feeding ult charge to his supports/himself.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:08
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Tenebrais posted:This'd be a pretty interesting change. Make him more of a discouragment tank - if you're going to shoot him, better be drat sure you'll kill him, or else your just feeding ult charge to his supports/himself. Yes make things even harder to kill don't want people to feel bad by dying.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:14
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Duck and Cover posted:Yes make things even harder to kill don't want people to feel bad by dying. You're poo pooing the idea as if its that of a whiny baby, but zarya already has a similar gimmick and makes for interesting fights when she's around.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:18
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SKULL.GIF posted:As opposed to Reinhardt? These days Orisa is a better option than Rein in nearly every circumstance.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:21
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Holding E will have Roadhog toss his gas can into the fray, releasing a noxious gas cloud that poisons all enemies and heals himself (albeit for a fraction of what he would have gotten if he huffed it) if he walks into it. Hook now grapples onto barriers and pulls them out of their initial position. This includes Reinhardt but it does not force him to drop his shield and requires his hook to land on Reinhardt, so Hog can't just aim for its corner. M2 now boops before it detonates; enemies take impact damage if they hit a wall, similar to Doomfist. Combining this with his M1 essentially gives him back his hook-to-death combo but is now two-shot and requires the use of level geometry to accomplish. I have never played Roadhog in my life, but this is how you fix him, trust me. Maple Leaf fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 23:22
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Stop 👏 nerfing 👏 damage 👏 and 👏 buffing 👏 mitigation
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Jul 11, 2017 23:28
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Manatee Cannon posted:that post says nothing even remotely resembling "we're giving roadhog more health". making him more survivable would help but idk how they plan to do that. can't imagine it'd be straight dr but I guess they could put that as a temp buff to replace (or put on top of) the self heal Let's be real for a second, do you really trust the people who hosed up something that was working perfectly fine in the first place to fix things?
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Jul 11, 2017 23:32
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Maple Leaf posted:Holding shift will have Roadhog toss his gas can into the fray, releasing a noxious gas cloud that poisons all enemies and heals himself (albeit for a fraction of what he would have gotten if he huffed it) if he walks into it. E: Human shield. Hog can pick up friendly teammates and use them to block damage to himself at the cost of damage to them. LShift: Pan flute of bamboozlement: All enemy controls are reversed while hog plays a tune on his flute. It depletes and refills like defense matrix because hog only knows one tune, funky town by lipps inc. Ult: Whole hog now fires whole, roasted hogs which kills any enemies they land on but can heal teammates like chickens in streets of rage. M1 & M2 flip off and make jerk off hand gestures. Passive: Untidy. Hog leaves his chain behind him like all the time instead of tidying up and enemies can trip on it. wit fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 23:35
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Kai Tave posted:Let's be real for a second, do you really trust the people who hosed up something that was working perfectly fine in the first place to fix things? I mean... yes, obviously. they've hosed up here and they've hosed up before, but yes I think they'll get roadhog into a better place. I don't see how that's even up for debate really. what I'm worried about isn't whether they can "fix" roadhog, it's a matter of what they think fixing entails. I'm sure he'll be more playable by the time they're done changing things, but what worries me is whether he'll still be the hero I enjoyed playing at the end of it. their vision for roadhog is clearly different from mine being squishy is a serious problem roadhog has. his damage used to make up for it by letting you win a fight before taking damage could come into the equation; getting consistent picks was a good tradeoff for his being an ult battery. now he doesn't have that and they're clearly unwilling to give it back, so helping him stay alive longer is the only way to go. I'd rather they just conceded they made a mistake with him but there are different ways they could take him and still make roadhog viable. it's just a matter of whether it's still fun to the people that liked him
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Jul 11, 2017 23:44
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Manatee Cannon posted:I mean... yes, obviously. they've hosed up here and they've hosed up before, but yes I think they'll get roadhog into a better place. I don't see how that's even up for debate really. I mean the Bastion rework says otherwise. They took a hero that was underperforming and magically made him worse, and have yet to go back and address that.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:45
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bastion's worse while ulting (because they panic nerfed him) but much better in recon form. sentry form lost damage but it's more survivable and can shred barriers better. it's clearly not a nerf across the board and he's not really in a worse position that he was. blizzard will change him again like they do everything that isn't tracer. it might not be enough and it might not be soon, but they'll do it. that's guaranteed their problem isn't that they don't balance the game or try and change the heroes to make them more viable; their problem is that they are incredibly slow in doing so e: also we only ever see changes that are gonna go live in some form. the ptr doesn't really do live testing of the potential changes that they test internally and they rarely mention that stuff, so a lot of what they actually do try is never seen. blizzard being so tight lipped is another problem I think, tho maybe moreso with their dumb esports push that nobody knows anything about even now Manatee Cannon fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jul 11, 2017 |
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Jul 11, 2017 23:49
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As a change the Bastion rework made Bastion more frustrating for pubs and lower skill players to deal with and worse against higher skill players, which is basically the exact opposite of what you'd want in a Bastion rework. Not being in a worse position is cold comfort considering the character's already near the bottom of the barrel, there's not much further down to go. Like I'm sorry but Blizzard hasn't demonstrated a ton of rock-solid balance chops imo, they're willing to throw dumb changes out in the wild without considering the ramifications and then go "huh, that's not working like we thought it would" while sitting on their hands for months (if they don't throw a panic nerf out there after it, that is). Regardless, "we took a character people enjoyed and hosed around with him until he's a different sort of character altogether" isn't a great outcome either.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:54
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I wouldn't play the game if I thought every hero I liked that got hit with the nerf bat would suck forever. it's like when soldier was trash for a couple months because they changed the way his gun worked. was he too good and needed a nerf? no, but they did it anyway because they wanted it to work differently. that sucked because I liked soldier and I definitely complained about him being bad, but then they buffed him and he became the best offense hero in the game. he's still good now. the drastic symmetra changes also clearly made her much better, even if she's still niche at best. it's not always bad when they make a change it sucks when they take something I don't think needs changing, something I like the way it is, and make it different. but I don't think the roadhog and bastion changes alone prove your point. game's not perfect and it'll probably never be exactly what I want, but it is still better than it was. I'll complain about the roadhog changes but I'm not gonna howl into the wind over how blizzard sucks at balancing because they gently caress stuff up occasionally
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Jul 12, 2017 00:08
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wit posted:You're poo pooing the idea as if its that of a whiny baby, but zarya already has a similar gimmick and makes for interesting fights when she's around. Blizzard has pretty much consistently been pushing the game to be tankier and tankier. It's what made Heroes of the Storm complete poo poo and isn't doing Overwatch any favors. I'm fine with a slower fps, however I'm not as fine with no one dying ever. Every time something needs balancing the answer seems to be less damage maybe make the class tankier. D.va, Bastion, Roadhog, Mcree, Soldier etc.
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Jul 12, 2017 00:41
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Roadhog will be given a deployable barrier. He spins his hook and chain like a propellor, wildly deflecting all projectiles.
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Jul 12, 2017 00:44
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mcbexx posted:He spins his hook and chain like a propellor, Slime fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 00:56
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Duck and Cover posted:Blizzard has pretty much consistently been pushing the game to be tankier and tankier. Uh what. Dive comp is literally all about annihilating a target before they can even react. The game hasn't been this bursty since the closed beta.
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Jul 12, 2017 00:59
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