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curufinor posted:30 kids in my 11th grade linear algebra class. I keep up with like 15 of them. Of the 15, 6 use that poo poo in day to day life, including myself A great post made even greater by the edits
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Jul 12, 2017 07:19
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curufinor posted:
I'm glad somebody said it. I've never had a checkbook. Is this the retro term for expense reconciliation?
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Jul 12, 2017 07:23
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yoloer420 posted:I'm glad somebody said it. I've never had a checkbook. Is this the retro term for expense reconciliation? Yeah, although boomers will get really freaked out if you let them know you never got trained on a checkbook specifically. When I got my first debit card my mom expected me to write every single transaction down in the checkbook register. My dad still won't do ATM deposits. There's a lot of superstition about banking.
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Jul 12, 2017 07:38
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Most parents are bad with money, because most people are bad with money (probably myself included). If you leave it up to the parents most kids will be making mistakes they didn't have to. Also, a bunch of people will do stuff because their dad or uncle said something one time and they took it to heart, despite it being totally wrong. This applies to more than just finance, but I find that a lot people seem to have really entrenched ideas about money they they got from some dipshit uncle. And god help you if your Dipshit Uncle owns a business. Then the whole family will take his word as gospel on all matters financial, despite the fact that he has gone bankrupt twice, lost a home and had two businesses fail (my wife's family has this uncle).
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Jul 12, 2017 07:40
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being in a hosed money situation is not like hell they invented hell to describe hosed money situations manichaean religion came like a century after currency was invented count the amount of financial poo poo jesus talks about in the bible there's a lot really really a lot huge amount
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Jul 12, 2017 07:47
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Inescapable Duck posted:Also doesn't help that talking about money seems to be so stigmatised that parents are more likely to give their children an effective sex education than an effective financial education. Do you think this is getting better generationally? Like I've talked about money with my friends but when my girlfriend's patents were complaining about how hard it is to save for retirement and I asked about specifics? They looked at me with actual disgust.
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Jul 12, 2017 08:21
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i think most people subconsciously adopt their parents spending habits anyway, like most things. i know i did! plus lots of studies say that children learn from their parents behaviours way stronger than they do from words/lectures. so having a money talk with your kids when you don't follow those principles is probably going to do jack poo poo. yes it means that lovely parents raise lovely children but hey that's how we as a society decided things should be.
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Jul 12, 2017 08:26
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Well played. 
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Jul 12, 2017 10:44
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My mom has some "Universal Life" policy that has a $100,000 payout when she dies. I looked into these, and apparently they were marketed in the 1980s with 3 benefits: -Low monthly premiums -Retains a cash value (you never lose your money!) -The rise of the stock market will keep your monthly premiums low Unfortunately the last one never happened, and now people with these policies as they push Age 70 are being forced to pay higher monthly premiums to make up for it. I told my mom her premiums were going to skyrocket at some point, suggested she just cash out the policy and throw it in a CD, and she said something like "you're insulting me right now - do you think I don't know how to manage my money?" Baby Boomers have never been told "no" and just trust salesmen blindly. Good luck with that!
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Jul 12, 2017 12:52
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Inept posted:At 9%. With a credit score of 730. There's been a lot of activity on the thread since last night, but in a nutshell: -OP is the wife in this situation, and the one who lost her job. She does NOT drive. -Both vehicles belong to her husband. He drives the car (Prius) to work daily, and the truck is for occasional use. In other words, he's making massive payments on an unnecessary vehicle that he doesn't even use very often. According to OP, selling the truck is "non-negotiable". -The mortgage they are paying is for a house they own in Maryland. They had just bought the place when husband was offered a much better job in Florida, so they moved, but kept the house for rental income. They could sell it, but according to husband, they are at least 25k underwater on it. OP thinks it's more like 10k, but oh well, no point in trying to find anything solid out. I think her best bet would be to find a job & ditch the husband.
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Jul 12, 2017 12:53
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April posted:There's been a lot of activity on the thread since last night, but in a nutshell: I was actually just about to quote the original post and mention that she should either sell the truck or divorce the husband.
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Jul 12, 2017 13:02
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Photex posted:I was actually just about to quote the original post and mention that she should either sell the truck or divorce the husband. Why not both!
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Jul 12, 2017 13:28
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yoloer420 posted:I'm glad somebody said it. I've never had a checkbook. Is this the retro term for expense reconciliation? Obviously that was a time-relevant example specifically from when I was in high school, around the time when a lot of you were born. It's not about the specifics of the thing being taught, it's about the fact that basic household finance with time-and-place-appropriate mechanics was being taught.
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Jul 12, 2017 13:47
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Now it would be churning, managing bitcoin exchange accounts, and fleeing the country under an assumed name when saddled with implausible amounts of medical debt.
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Jul 12, 2017 14:00
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Yeah, all the vocational stuff is taught in a nice modern way in, say, Korea. In America, there is still, i think, a literal plurality who teach kids checkbooks and not anything online and useful. To get to the Korean state of things, you just have to spend as much and get as much as the Koreans. A majority of middle class Korean families with a kid spends more on education for that kid than on food. That, along with enough misogyny such that the smartest women go on directly to the teachers colleges, is what makes that work. The Finnish should probably be copied instead on the teachers colleges front. I mean, they also do the spend more on education than on food thing in NYC, the South bay, Fairfax and environs, and various other upper middle class and rich places, but even lower middle class Koreans spend that much. Some of it is also cultural changes. Delay of gratification is remarkably stable after like the age of 5, or so the Mischel experiment story goes. curufinor fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 14:05
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[quote="“curufinor”" post="“474280074”"] 30 kids in my 11th grade linear algebra class. I keep up with like 15 of them. Of the 15, 6 use that poo poo in day to day life, including myself so you just need to go to like the 30th best school in the nation to see real use out of that hmm e: lol balancing a checkbook like it’s 1999 e, futher: lol the task of making a budget is way the gently caress easier with 10k/mo takehome rather than 3k/mo takehome hmm [/quote] Those odds don’t sound that bad. I work in tech and I don’t even use algebra except for multiples of stuff. Most kids are never going to use 3/4th the stuff they learn in high school and college. Practical info would be better. I learned to be deathly afraid of liability from the small little case studies in my 10th grade Economics textbook.
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Jul 12, 2017 14:35
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Krispy Kareem posted:Those odds don’t sound that bad. I work in tech and I don’t even use algebra except for multiples of stuff. Most kids are never going to use 3/4th the stuff they learn in high school and college.
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Jul 12, 2017 15:07
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I mean a weeklong course on how to spot scams would probably do a shitton of good for everyone.
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Jul 12, 2017 15:09
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silvergoose posted:I mean a weeklong course on how to spot scams would probably do a shitton of good for everyone.
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Jul 12, 2017 15:10
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silvergoose posted:I mean a weeklong course on how to spot scams would probably do a shitton of good for everyone. There was a Rifftrax short a while ago about spotting scammers (On Guard, Bunco!) that was made in like, the 70's I think, and I greatly enjoyed just how many of the scams depicted were not only still done almost exactly the same today but also were ones my idiot dad fell for. e: Here it is without the rifftrax if anyone wants to watch it: https://archive.org/details/OnGuardBunco1970
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Jul 12, 2017 15:11
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Hoodwinker posted:Even better than practical info would be the ability to think critically, which is supposed to be what a lot of the theory is about but gets glossed over to meet testing standards, rushed due to lack of resources, or doesn't connect to the students who are crammed 30 to a teacher. It's a much more complicated problem than making sure kids know how the modern equivalent of checkbook balancing. No critical thinking teaching intervention has ever shown to be of any use for anything, is my reading of the literature, tbh. The grand story about critical thinking dying in this country is mostly about the increased rate of scams generally, which have the same low rate of success that they have had previously but which add up to a higher rate of practical deception because there's so many more of them. Conversion rate on nigerian email (formerly Spanish businessman) scams is best predicted by income inequality, something like that. Of course individuals who exist with higher education are empirically less susceptible but this is not an experiment and the natural experiments have been a little more dire curufinor fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 15:15
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curufinor posted:No critical thinking teaching intervention has ever shown to be of any use for anything, is my reading of the literature, tbh. The grand story about critical thinking dying in this country is mostly about the increased rate of scams generally, which have the same low rate of success that they have had previously but which add up to a higher rate of practical deception because there's so many more of them. I wonder if the income inequality thing is just a higher willingness to find a solution - any solution - to the problems of being poor. To a person with money, "Here's an opportunity to get a slightly higher bank account number" means a lot less than to a person that hears, "Do you want to escape the hell that is poverty in America?"
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Jul 12, 2017 15:34
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Hoodwinker posted:This is really interesting. Can you link to some of the literature? What you say about the prevalence of stories about scams making them seem more effective does jive with just about every other historical account of humanity's foibles though. God, the conversion on nigerian scams thing is in an out of print book in a special purpose psych library somewhere, so that will be a pita I think i can get you a cite for critical thinking intervention tho
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Jul 12, 2017 15:39
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curufinor posted:God, the conversion on nigerian scams thing is in an out of print book in a special purpose psych library somewhere, so that will be a pita
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Jul 12, 2017 15:41
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Hoodwinker posted:Yeah the critical thinking part was what I was interested in. That'd be rad. You're rad. Thanks. citation format's gonna be hosed cuz lol proper citation format in a dead internet forum Sternberg, R. J. and Bhana, K. (1986). “Synthesis of research on the effectiveness of intellectual skills programs: Snake-oil remedies or miracle cures?” Educational Leadership, 44, 60-67 the conclusion is given in that one that these two or three peer reviewed programs might work hint: unreplicable McMillan J "Enhancing college students' critical thinking: A review of studies" Research in Higher Education 1987 Norman GR "Effectiveness of instruction in critical appraisal (evidence based medicine) skills: a critical appraisal" CMAJ 1998 Behar-Horenstein et al "Teaching Critical Thinking Skills In Higher Education: A Review Of The Literature" Journal of College Teaching and Learning 2011 nobody seems to publish a lot about high school, cuz high school teachers don't do research
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Jul 12, 2017 16:18
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curufinor posted:nobody seems to publish a lot about high school, cuz high school teachers don't do research I thought it was also because working with minors was a pain in the rear end.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:18
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IRB's are a pain in the butt in general, so it's a mere incremental increase in pain in the butt but high school teachers can't do research at all, most can barely read papers not that I wish to imply that most ed school students can do research
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Jul 12, 2017 16:21
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Life has (sadly?) not been giving me any good BWM stories recently, but the couple I knew who broke up and decided to buy a house together anyway have been posting more awkward stuff on Facebook. The girl has been spending a couple nights a week at her mom's house, but now stays at their house full-time because she figured out that her ex's high school girlfriend/now current girlfriend was in the house one time she wasn't there. She's now asking friends for advice on how to "get something in writing" about this rule. It's been about 3 months, so they are actually lasting a lot longer than I expected. But I can't see this going much longer without a meltdown. Reminder: The plan is to keep living together (and never let the new GF into the house) for "a couple years." Edit: These were the original posts. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:My friend and her boyfriend (of less than 2 years) decided to buy a house together. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The BWL aspect of this whole situation is that I'm pretty sure she still wants to get back together with him and that the house will help. quote:Ex-BF house girl following up her meltdown post with a string of cryptic messages. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 16:27
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ate all the Oreos posted:There was a Rifftrax short a while ago about spotting scammers (On Guard, Bunco!) that was made in like, the 70's I think, and I greatly enjoyed just how many of the scams depicted were not only still done almost exactly the same today but also were ones my idiot dad fell for. There's an A/T thread about scams that has some nexus to this. Zo posted:yes it means that lovely parents raise lovely children but hey that's how we as a society decided things should be. On one hand I don't like that things are so FYGM, but by virtue of posting in this thread we're probably better off than most so  e. gently caress bbcode is hard, why didn't i learn this in middle school Guest2553 fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 16:30
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One of my favorite scams was in a police blotter from the 1990’s where some ladies met a guy on the street who had a get-rich-quick scheme that somehow involved them giving him all their money, him putting that money in a hankie, walking down the street, and giving them back their money, but now it’s an empty hanky. The answer, is of course always drugs. But I like to believe the 1990’s were a magical time where you and your friends would suddenly break out to a Kinks song in a gas station and mysterious strangers you meet on the street could double your money.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:34
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quote:my inner child wanted to know why math worked and how much money i could get in life and how cooties worked lol
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Jul 12, 2017 16:41
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curufinor posted:No critical thinking teaching intervention has ever shown to be of any use for anything, is my reading of the literature, tbh. The grand story about critical thinking dying in this country is mostly about the increased rate of scams generally, which have the same low rate of success that they have had previously but which add up to a higher rate of practical deception because there's so many more of them. As I understand it your critical thinking skills are mostly a factor of your relationship with authority. Children who are taught to question authority can be taught critical thinking skills more effectively, and most grow them naturally during the process of being taught to ask questions. We have huge cultural obstacles to doing that on a wide scale, unfortunately. In a lot of the country just regular public school education is already seen as poisoning children against their elders.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:55
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:As I understand it your critical thinking skills are mostly a factor of your relationship with authority. Children who are taught to question authority can be taught critical thinking skills more effectively, and most grow them naturally during the process of being taught to ask questions. We have huge cultural obstacles to doing that on a wide scale, unfortunately. In a lot of the country just regular public school education is already seen as poisoning children against their elders. Huh. Thanks, lovely childhood.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:56
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Hoodwinker posted:This is really interesting. Can you link to some of the literature? What you say about the prevalence of stories about scams making them seem more effective does jive with just about every other historical account of humanity's foibles though. Everyone wants more. Look at all the people who fell for Madoff.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:59
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monster on a stick posted:Everyone wants more. Look at all the people who fell for Madoff.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:05
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:As I understand it your critical thinking skills are mostly a factor of your relationship with authority. Children who are taught to question authority can be taught critical thinking skills more effectively, and most grow them naturally during the process of being taught to ask questions. We have huge cultural obstacles to doing that on a wide scale, unfortunately. In a lot of the country just regular public school education is already seen as poisoning children against their elders. At best I can see it as "critical thinkers also question authority" but not "people that question authority are critical thinkers." I know people that question authority but this somehow lead them to paths where they fell wholesale for unconventional ideas that they didn't critically evaluate at the time - becoming randroids, joining MLMs, and in one case joining a cult (the ultimate BWM move).
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Jul 12, 2017 17:05
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Huh. Thanks, lovely childhood. Yeah, if you think about it, critical thinking pretty much boils down to seeing somebody go "you can trust me" and saying "but can I really?" Imagine the hassle if every religious, community, and business leader had to back up their authority with some kind of substance.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:06
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Cold on a Cob posted:At best I can see it as "critical thinkers also question authority" but not "people that question authority are critical thinkers." I know people that question authority but this somehow lead them to paths where they fell wholesale for unconventional ideas that they didn't critically evaluate at the time - becoming randroids, joining MLMs, and in one case joining a cult (the ultimate BWM move). Haha wow yeah, cults are really expensive. What I'm saying is that being able to question authority opens the door to it even being possible to do critical thinking, and practice questioning authority is also practice thinking critically. It's the starting point, and in our culture most people don't get a chance to even go that far. Also, "authority" is a lot more than the obvious. A lot of libertarians might manage some "gently caress you dad I'm not goin' to church" stuff but they would never think to question authority in the forms of white supremacy or "he's rich so he must be smart."
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Jul 12, 2017 17:10
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:As I understand it your critical thinking skills are mostly a factor of your relationship with authority. Children who are taught to question authority can be taught critical thinking skills more effectively, and most grow them naturally during the process of being taught to ask questions. We have huge cultural obstacles to doing that on a wide scale, unfortunately. In a lot of the country just regular public school education is already seen as poisoning children against their elders. Sounds fascinating, what kind of studies back this claim up?
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Jul 12, 2017 17:13
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monster on a stick posted:Sounds fascinating, what kind of studies back this claim up? The ones in my child pedagogy textbook in college v  v Sorry for the useless answer, it's something I found interesting but didn't pursue professionally so I don't have access to any journals about it
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Jul 12, 2017 17:19
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