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same, but irl
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Jul 11, 2017 22:45
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Most stealth games are just Frogger with more visual bells and whistles.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:01
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:You should wait to purchase games, until those games exist. You should wait for those games to be released, and maybe wait for reviews and word-of-mouth because sixty united states dollars is a lot for most people, probably you included. Eh the Battlefield 1 platinum pass has been worth it. The new levels are very good and add some more depth to the game. Granted the argument could very well be 'why weren't these levels in the game originally' but even the game as originally made is satisfying. It's only one of two games I ever bought dlc for though, the other (SFV) was an absolute waste.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:04
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Complaining about games with Assassin's Creed/Batman combat is kind of like complaining that other FPS ripped off mouse look/WASD from Doom or whatever. There are only so any ways you can make a 3rd person combat system, and if you aren't a Devil May Cry/Bayonetta game where every single button and mechanic is combat oriented, then you'll need a streamlined system, and honestly, the system in SoM/Arkham/AC is probably the best we can do, because they are all aping the good parts of Mark of Kri's combat, who almost perfected it last gen. Unpopular Opinion: Nintendo Switch will be seen as a failure due to poor launch support and being viewed as a handheld instead of a console by idiots, and it deserves it because releasing a console with two games, even if one of them is a supposed perfect 10, is just a dumb greedy bullshit move. If Nintendo Switc launched with Breath of the Wild, Metroid Prime 4, and Mario Odyssey it'd be hitting PS2 numbers, but Japanese executives have been losing touch with the western market for over 10 years and show no signs of reform so they just sell a $400 Zelda game.
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Jul 12, 2017 00:10
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A $400 zelda game which can be had for $200 on the wii u, where it performs just as well as on the switch
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Jul 12, 2017 00:25
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Vegetable posted:I've played RPGs on cheatmode by basically getting all the cool stuff from the get-go. It's no fun. I'm not saying there should be no progression. I'm saying that you should be able to start with a relatively fully developed character, and "progression" should come in other forms, like getting awesome gear, making numbers go up, completing quests, discovering the world, etc. Even in Diablo, where the entire game is about nothing but progression, I think the game would benefit from giving players the option of creating a new character instantly at level 70. A lot of people who play that game even literally say it doesn't start until level 70 anyway. This is what I'm talking about. I think it's entirely possible to remove the "ramping up to fun" part of RPGs. This goes doubly so in a game like Morrowind where the character development system is bullshit anyway while the world is itself very interesting. Just let me start as a fully fleshed out necromancer or paladin or mercantile archer or whatever, each class leaving the gate with at least five or six action abilities to make combat interesting. I don't know when it happened, but somewhere along the way, both people who play these games and the developers that make them have just accepted and internalized that the player has to start the game as a totally mechanically useless, totally mechanically boring player character. Let's just skip that. Let's skip the five classic RPG hours of having to be a lovely uninteresting character before the fun can actually start.
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Jul 12, 2017 00:35
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Not everyone who plays a given RPG is a genre veteran. For those people (and for some RPGs) there's a learning curve to be climbed and having everything available to you right off the bat would feel downright overwhelming.
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Jul 12, 2017 01:00
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baldurs gate 2 starts you with a mid level AD&D character and i promise you, starting in medias res isn't gonna make that game playable for you. making numbers go up, marking off achievements, and that poo poo is a real basic elemental rpg feature set that is doled out to you at a pace that's probably for your own good tbh
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Jul 12, 2017 01:10
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Read this if you want to have thoughts about levels. https://www.raphkoster.com/2005/12/16/do-levels-suck/
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Jul 12, 2017 01:49
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GreatGreen posted:I'm not saying there should be no progression. I'm saying that you should be able to start with a relatively fully developed character, and "progression" should come in other forms, like getting awesome gear, making numbers go up, completing quests, discovering the world, etc. I get what you're saying, especially for CRPGs where you just want to have a good melee build or a decent necro at the start of the game but you can't even raise a zombie
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Jul 12, 2017 02:24
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SuperSlacker posted:Quick time events are lazy game design and they're essentially glorified cutscenes. except heavy rain. that game did them pretty well imo Do doom 4 glory kills count as qtes? Because...I won't say those are good but they aren't terrible. That game takes everything that sucks in modern fpses and makes it barely suck at all.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:48
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VideoTapir posted:Do doom 4 glory kills count as qtes? Because...I won't say those are good but they aren't terrible. That game takes everything that sucks in modern fpses and makes it barely suck at all. No ,glory kills are Good
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Jul 12, 2017 03:54
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VideoTapir posted:Do doom 4 glory kills count as qtes? Because...I won't say those are good but they aren't terrible. That game takes everything that sucks in modern fpses and makes it barely suck at all. If glory kills are QTEs then so is putting someone in a headlock in Double Dragon, and that'd be super dumb to say
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Jul 12, 2017 05:03
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I think stealth games should entirely do away with exploring or highly involved levels with hidden goodies. The problem with stealth is that you can never feel like a cool infiltrator because it feels like playing it "right" is watching patterns for 2 minutes and then slowly disappearing every guard and threat before running around to find goodies in a now empty level for 20 minutes. e: I know this is an 'unpopular opinions' thread and you're probably already aware of some of the examples I make here, but I like discussions. Most of the comments are just general and not directed at you personally. I disagree, a lot of stealth gameplay involves taking advantage of enemy routine. A big part of that is having a highly involved level that you need to explore so that you can see that routine being played out e.g 'The chief officer has a safe in his room but keeps the code in his journal which he has with him at all times' (so you need to explore and find where he goes), or 'Security staff have a sensor on their uniforms which disables security lasers, but only if they are conscious' (so you need to follow one without them knowing, which means knowing how they patrol and behave). Games like Metal Gear Solid allow you to learn very quickly how to deal with enemies and environments for a streamlined experience, they literally show you enemy locations on a small minimap, and even which direction they are facing. How 'streamlined' it is, is entirely up to you and your approach. The first video shows someone on a low difficulty using the minimap and various items to clear the guards and collect items very slowly, the second video shows someone taking advantage of game mechanics (like guards who were alerted get reset after leaving the zone, as long as they don't set an alarm) for a streamlined run. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPm33XiTVv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eClP1JcX-Sk Usually the punishment for being caught in stealth games is that you have to use resources like healing items or escape tools (smoke bombs, stun grenades, magic, time spent hiding, whatever) some of which tend to become more useful as the game progresses, so the reason people clear out a level before exploring is to remove the risk associated with exploring, which is being discovered. The fact that you mentioned Hitman is weird, because that game is entirely about standing around watching how people act and behave before making any decisions, because being discovered just once can completely ruin the mission. The advantage of the latest Hitman game is that it rewards you by giving you an incentive to play the level again from a new starting point with different equipment etc, but now you know what to expect, so you can be more confident in trying a new approach. If you want a fast paced stealth game which requires minimal previous experience, try something like Warframe, which has its own spy/infiltration game mode. You have several stealth classes which can be 100% invisible and silent even while killing enemies, and there is no penalty for general alarms (alarms in spy missions lower the value of rewards), just more enemies appear which is great because they drop the resources you need to build items. Fast killing and fast stealth go together in this game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spmpqr8ruGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pKGQ_JmI-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BzDcjbS3JE Here is a 100% stealth run of Dishonoured. Again, it shows that once you know how things work you can do things very quickly and very efficiently without having to explore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BskfgYtT4dY&t=1057s It sounds like you want a stealth game where you can succeed quickly on the first try, without previous knowledge of the game, without exploring, and still get a high score/reward. Stuff like the reward quality is up to the developers, but generally speaking a game like that is not really possible when you consider that almost all stealth games use one or more similar mechanics (slow movement makes you quiet, silenced weapons don't alert enemies, knocked out/dead enemies raise suspicion when discovered, staying in the dark makes you harder to detect, etc). What I mean is that you are likely to have encountered several of these mechanics in other games, and your ability to take advantage of them will affect your success in similar games. It sounds like you want some kind of stealth/time trial genre, which you might find in something like Mirrors Edge, Assassins Creed, or (to some extent) Hitman as you mentioned - but once again, efficiency relies on knowing what to expect and how to deal with it. You should try to play some of these stealth games differently, see if you can improvise solutions and try to challenge yourself with things like 'fastest run with no alarms' or 'find all items without knocking anyone out' or try to see how well you can play while ignoring the stealth mechanics, like try to kill everyone in a Hitman level with the biggest guns you can use. Heres a video of Mirrors Edge where the player goes out of their way to beat up every guard they find. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtKrs7j7g0Y TheMostFrench fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 05:28
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Bust Rodd posted:Nintendo Switch will be seen as a failure due to poor launch support, and it deserves it because releasing a console with two games, even if one of them is a supposed perfect 10, is just a dumb greedy bullshit move. different unpopular opinion: FIFA and other EA sports games on the Switch need to be good in order for the system to truly thrive. a fully functional version of those games that you can play on the go is something that will sell units SuperSlacker posted:Quick time events are lazy game design and they're essentially glorified cutscenes. except heavy rain. that game did them pretty well imo
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Jul 12, 2017 06:43
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I made a Top 100 Games Of All-Time list. Some controversial opinions I'm sure.
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Jul 12, 2017 07:37
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punk rebel ecks posted:I made a Top 100 Games Of All-Time list. Some controversial opinions I'm sure. Wow you like some anime-rear end poo poo huh? You should probably repress those urges rather than telling everyone in medium articles.
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Jul 12, 2017 07:48
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Jeza posted:I hate stealth games because apparently I can't deal with the sense that I'm failing by getting caught, so I inevitably make myself suffer through hours of tortuously slow, boring gameplay until I give up halfway through the game. If more games did it Hitman style, where it was actually fun to cut loose and still win, then they might be good. Instead of LEVEL GRADE D- NO BONUS ALARM POINTS NO BONUS UNDETECTED NO SPECIAL ITEM REWARDS blah blah. same but as for why Platinum games are real bad eye em oh
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Jul 12, 2017 08:21
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punk rebel ecks posted:I made a Top 100 Games Of All-Time list. Some controversial opinions I'm sure. I think the controversial opinions you have are that anyone else genuinely cares about 100 different games enough to make a list of them, and that anyone will read yours
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Jul 12, 2017 09:38
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punk rebel ecks posted:I made a Top 100 Games Of All-Time list. Some controversial opinions I'm sure. the best game is whichever one stops you from posting
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Jul 12, 2017 09:58
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The difference to me here is that Dishonored hides things from you. Cool lore bits, absolutely unmissable skills and charms or whatever they are, and I have to search every nook and cranny to find them. Hitman, sure there's exploring and observation, but it's all immediately related to a single and sole goal. You're in a world and you have a task and sure you can find new ways to do it with a little exploration, but I'm not worried about missing a room here or there. I think I just find it boring and unbelievable that you can slowly whittle away guards and no one notices or enters an area for an hour while you pick apart the level to find gold and tchotchkes. I'm supposed to be a super fast, crazy stealthy supernatural assassin. I shouldn't have to quietly and slowly not kill everyone and then search their bedrooms for the full experience. I know that I don't "have" to, but you're missing out on a lot of stuff that you should be finding otherwise. If I had to fix Dishonored without uprooting it, it would be to give me the skill upgrades and charms at the end of the level without having to find them and removing money entirely. Refill my ammo and everything at the start of every level. Put skills on individual cooldowns or make mana recharge over time without the lowering the little "max" bar if you use too much. An initial scan of the area and making a plan is fine, but I hate sitting in each new room for 2 minutes to get everything understood and on top of that hunt for secrets. The TLDR is probably its own unpopular opinion: exploration should be core to the game or not exist at all. Backtracking in FPS levels or stealth games or poo poo for secret rooms isn't fun, and knowing they exist but willingly not looking often leaves you feeling stupid because you might have missed good poo poo. Wolfenstein TNO/The Old Blood gets a pass on this, because the hidden areas are usually like a 2 second departure from the path and I find 60% of them by mistake, and they don't count for anything but cheevos, if I recall.
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Jul 12, 2017 14:25
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Yeah I never liked Dishonored much. Stealthing in that game wasn't fun because the AI is loving retarded. What's fun about it? Killing poo poo was fun because you had a bunch of ways to kill people. So I did At the end of the game the story told me the world basically ended... ok game, whatever, gently caress you
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Jul 12, 2017 14:43
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Dishonored sucks but I thought this was a popular opinion ???
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Jul 12, 2017 15:28
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Anime Store Adventure posted:The difference to me here is that Dishonored hides things from you. Cool lore bits, absolutely unmissable skills and charms or whatever they are, and I have to search every nook and cranny to find them. Hitman, sure there's exploring and observation, but it's all immediately related to a single and sole goal. You're in a world and you have a task and sure you can find new ways to do it with a little exploration, but I'm not worried about missing a room here or there. I think the problem with it is that as you say, being detected is like 'failing'. I just wish that either they'd come up with a way for you to move about where you don't have to worry about being detected (and somehow have the game still be interesting) OR have it such that when you are detected, murdering your way out is a perfectly reasonable solution that isn't penalized. I think its a bit of a leap to say that you 'have to backtrack through the level' because you have an item that literally lets you see the relevant 'secrets' through walls and makes a heartbeat sound when you're near them. I always find it super frustrating in any stealth games though, the way that any evidence of you doing anything is cause for the ENTIRE map to suddenly become lethally hostile in a way that just ramps up exponentially unless you can ... not do anything for a long time. Like that's not a fun game mechanic, and yet its in every stealth game ever. "Dont play the game for 5 minutes, and you'll be rewarded with being able to play the game again". Maybe if they just made it so your abilities were absolutely broken as gently caress and fights were just a crazy blood ballet where you murder the poo poo out of everyone without any hope of them doing anything to you, but you only have so much ammo / mana, so you have to sneak around to conserve it. That way you never feel like being detected is a failure, its just another resource to watch. The tension comes from not knowing how long you can go before finding more. !Klams fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 15:38
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http://i.imgur.com/MySWPmb.mp4
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Jul 12, 2017 15:41
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!Klams posted:Maybe if they just made it so your abilities were absolutely broken as gently caress and fights were just a crazy blood ballet where you murder the poo poo out of everyone without any hope of them doing anything to you, but you only have so much ammo / mana, so you have to sneak around to conserve it. That way you never feel like being detected is a failure, its just another resource to watch. The tension comes from not knowing how long you can go before finding more. Yeah this is definitely Warframe - The main bullshit enemy is called a nullifier, who stops you being able to use abilities within its radius, but you can still kill the poo poo out of everything in seconds. TheMostFrench fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 16:33
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punk rebel ecks posted:I made a Top 100 Games Of All-Time list. Some controversial opinions I'm sure.  your controversial opinion is that you think anyone will spend over six hours reading this
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Jul 12, 2017 17:39
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punk rebel ecks posted:I made a Top 100 Games Of All-Time list. Some controversial opinions I'm sure. i'm going to read your entire inter-dimensional time traveller series and make fun of you https://medium.com/@MegaMix/inter-dimensional-time-travelers-act-i-movement-iv-f5712f368d3a
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Jul 12, 2017 17:52
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new phone who dis posted:Most stealth games are just Frogger with more visual bells and whistles. Agreed. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 17:54
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also half life 2 is really good and for a 13 year old game it has aged superbly well but im not going to pretend that it's the best game of all time and that other games haven't done some of the things hl2 did but better in the 13 years since. in terms of being a crafted experience i don't think many games come close to the effort they put into level design but the core mechanics they utilize to that end have not aged great - the shooting is mediocre AF and the AI and scripting look more and more artificial and janky as time goes on which hurts since that's kind of the crux of the entire hl2 experience it just happens to be an eclectic mix of things and presented in the context of being a video game from 2004 which makes people consider it to be untouchable. its got a lot of problems to go with the things they executed well but if you were to fix them you would make people mad for changing a perfect experience or whatever
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Jul 12, 2017 18:02
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ar3NwhcCms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQrA7OyTJV4 Pictured: a "strategy" game.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:03
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Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:Dishonored sucks but I thought this was a popular opinion ??? dishonored is a lovely game but it is so close to being a spectacular game if they had only not hosed up the reward mechanics. it is so obvious that even people that dont even think about game design see this flaw and its the one thing people repeatedly bitch about in the game but it is very clear that it was released half baked and if they had spend the time to smooth over the contradictory gameplay mechanics it would be a modern classic. but its not, and it's a bad game. a shame, really.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:05
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i love xcom and xcom 2 but they really are total horseshit
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Jul 12, 2017 18:07
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a bone to pick posted:i'm going to read your entire inter-dimensional time traveller series and make fun of you
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Jul 12, 2017 18:08
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get that OUT of my face posted:a mere 25 minutes of reading compared to 6 hours of a top 100 video games list that's half weeb poo poo  That's only the 4th part of the first act this one is a pretty funny read though https://medium.com/@MegaMix/a-look-in-the-mirror-77f191409652
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Jul 12, 2017 18:09
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basic hitler posted:i love xcom and xcom 2 but they really are total horseshit tbf XCOM 2 fixed a lot of bullshit but EU I find to just be genuinely awful.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:11
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nigga crab pollock posted:also half life 2 is really good and for a 13 year old game it has aged superbly well but im not going to pretend that it's the best game of all time and that other games haven't done some of the things hl2 did but better in the 13 years since. in terms of being a crafted experience i don't think many games come close to the effort they put into level design but the core mechanics they utilize to that end have not aged great - the shooting is mediocre AF and the AI and scripting look more and more artificial and janky as time goes on which hurts since that's kind of the crux of the entire hl2 experience Going through and playing it with dev commentary is awesome. Literally every inch of their level design was completely intentional and the result of play testing things like crazy. Little things like "players kept trying to open this one door so we changed the color of the door and the lighting. 80% of people skipped the door after that." Really cool stuff.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:11
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Skullgirls as the second best game of all time? lol it's not even close to the best fighting game. I don't know what the best fighting game is but it definitely has "street fighter 2" in the name.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:22
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It's me I'm the guy that enjoys quick time events. Not ones that mean a game over, but like missing it means you don't look as cool or a miss a thing or whatever Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Skullgirls as the second best game of all time? lol it's not even close to the best fighting game. I don't know what the best fighting game is but it definitely has "street fighter 2" in the name. I didn't know Digimon Rumble Arena was a street fighter 2 spinoff!
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Jul 12, 2017 18:24
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fruit on the bottom posted:It's me I'm the guy that enjoys quick time events. I'll make an allowance for tmnt tournament fighters.
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Jul 12, 2017 18:26
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