|
Somewhat relevant to current discussion, I was wondering if people would like to give feedback on the page for my next Kickstarter? It's the second edition of Legacy: Life Among the Ruins, a game birthed from this own forum's PbtA design competition way back in the mists of time... I'm planning on pressing the launch button around the 20th, so there's plenty of time to fix things if something looks off.
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 07:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 01:20 |
|
|
Covok posted:How does DTRPG print on demand system works? I'm still in the absolute basic planning stages. Haven't got the quotes yet. The 1000 USD is just a starting price as I start to consider what I need. Trying to keep costs around there somewhat since, well, I'm risk averse and don't know if I could get more for that on KS. I believe he's talking about how when someone backs for PoD on Kickstarter, they're (usually) paying for a coupon to buy the book on DTRPG for a discount. They'll still have to pay at least the minimum print cost plus shipping, but all that plus their pledge to your Kickstarter should work out to less than buying the book without the coupon. That can throw some people off if they're unfamiliar. Covok posted:[*]Borrow my brother's HD camera for a KS video Unless you're really confident in your screen presence, I'd suggest voice over some preview art, instead of video of yourself. Buy/borrow a good microphone and do sound tests in your available spaces, tape up egg carton halves if you have to, and just make something that sounds good. It's easier to edit, and harder to screw up.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 10:07
|
|
|
Covok posted:You know, on this subject, everyone should read Kevin Crawford's Sandbox #1. He really goes into details about how to setup a kickstarter and all the decisions you need to make first. This is pretty good, but I can't help quibbling that for maximum possible utility, you want art in both TIFF and source format, which should usually be PSD (Photoshop) or AI (Illustrator).
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 10:22
|
|
|
blackmongoose posted:Anyone who can give you a detailed and accurate answer to this question probably won't do so without being paid. In terms of general non-legal advice, you should probably err on the side of caution since regardless of the actual legality, if a company goes through the effort to send you nasty messages it's unlikely you'll have the money to do anything but shut down your project. As a general hint, I'd suggest looking at other products that use similar elements and see how genericized they went in order to be 'safe'. Covok, you mention anime, so BESM is probably worth a look.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 10:50
|
|
|
Eurogamer did a profile piece on Mike Pondsmith, which is a pretty good read: http://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2017-07-12-making-cyberpunk-when-mike-pondsmith-met-cd-projekt-red Though I laughed at that second paragraph.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 12:57
|
|
|
That Old Tree posted:I believe he's talking about how when someone backs for PoD on Kickstarter, they're (usually) paying for a coupon to buy the book on DTRPG for a discount. They'll still have to pay at least the minimum print cost plus shipping, but all that plus their pledge to your Kickstarter should work out to less than buying the book without the coupon. That can throw some people off if they're unfamiliar. Yeah, pretty much this. Here is a print cost calculator; backers will have to pay print cost plus shipping even with a DTRPG coupon, so take that into account. IIRC whoever does your layout will also need to make a PoD-ready version of your PDF with bleed space etc. but I don't know how that works.  Covok posted:What would you say, since you've run three, are the chances of people deciding they need an anime rpg in their life?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 14:26
|
|
|
Well, blaming a delayed game on 9/11 is definitely original.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 15:13
|
|
|
ravenkult posted:Well, blaming a delayed game on 9/11 is definitely original. Man that's some delay.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 15:16
|
|
|
The same thing sorta happened to white wolf. New York By Night was coming back from the publishers right when 9/11 happened, so they had to do a quick read-through to make sure that they didn't do anything regarding the twin towers in the book.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 15:33
|
|
|
It could have been worse- he could have published an adventure where a terrorist is trying to ascend mystically by crashing a passenger plane into a landmark building years before 9/11 and then felt awkward about it ever since.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 16:26
|
|
|
There's a whole thing that anime is crazy popular--it's in every Barnes & Noble and Hot Topic and on TV and so on--but a lot of RPG people don't get it, and in some cases are weirdly proud of not getting it. People who have some clue about Japanese pop culture and can do stuff with it without being overly imitative (BESM) have started making neat games, but we're a long way off from oversaturation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 17:58
|
|
|
Ewen Cluney posted:There's a whole thing that anime is crazy popular--it's in every Barnes & Noble and Hot Topic and on TV and so on--but a lot of RPG people don't get it, and in some cases are weirdly proud of not getting it. People who have some clue about Japanese pop culture and can do stuff with it without being overly imitative (BESM) have started making neat games, but we're a long way off from oversaturation. I had a blast playing Tenra Bansho Zero (thanks Covok, you the man) but I'm afraid I'm so unexposed to anime that I can't really engage with most of the tropes that would otherwise be familiar to other people. I mean, the most anime I've watched is Ghost Fighter, Voltes V, the original Macross, and Ninja Robots.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 18:02
|
|
|
The thing about anime is that it's an aesthetic, not really a genre. It contains genres.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 18:03
|
|
|
Mors Rattus posted:The thing about anime is that it's an aesthetic, not really a genre. It contains genres. I have a friend whose objection is actually the aesthetic. He will not play games that are anime, no matter how good. He has little to no experience with actual anime cinematic products, just the drawing style, and he very strongly dislikes it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 18:08
|
|
|
Get the electronic copies of the TBZ rulebook, use the simple formatted ones without pictures, and play it off as a period drama with supernatural elements.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 18:10
|
|
|
But that is to people who like the aesthetic. Speaking as a daywalker (I tried to get into anime in the late 1990s, but after buying the three tapes we found at the local Musicland we ran out of ideas and I gave up...and now I tolerate it at best) the very fact of something being anime is (usually) enough to put non-fans off of it, because of the specific prioritization of the aesthetic. If you took everything from some specific genre of anime and changed the art style to be completely different, it would have a much better chance of being investigated by people who are not interested in anime. BY THE WAY THAT SAID I am not arguing you should not do your project, anime is obviously huge and why would you care what non-anime-fans think about your system, and if you have a cool idea you should go for it. This subforum mostly utterly loathes my favorite gaming, uh, genre? (play-as-yourself-but-in-alternate-realities), and I do not begrudge them that. I like gaming and I like it when people succeed  Edit: Welp beaten to this homullus posted:I have a friend whose objection is actually the aesthetic. He will not play games that are anime, no matter how good. He has little to no experience with actual anime cinematic products, just the drawing style, and he very strongly dislikes it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 18:11
|
|
|
Ettin posted:Yeah, pretty much this. Here is a print cost calculator; backers will have to pay print cost plus shipping even with a DTRPG coupon, so take that into account. IIRC whoever does your layout will also need to make a PoD-ready version of your PDF with bleed space etc. but I don't know how that works. Why did you show me that last one? Why do you horrify me with terrible moeblob garbage? I should probably refrain from making jokes like this in the future to avoid alienating my audience, huh? Wait, are maids moe? I swear, the last harem anime I watched was from the 90s (I don't count Jitsu Wa Watashi Wa because most of the female cast is not trying to get into the main character's pants and he made his choice from issue one) so I forget what is and is not moe. Ewen Cluney posted:There's a whole thing that anime is crazy popular--it's in every Barnes & Noble and Hot Topic and on TV and so on--but a lot of RPG people don't get it, and in some cases are weirdly proud of not getting it. People who have some clue about Japanese pop culture and can do stuff with it without being overly imitative (BESM) have started making neat games, but we're a long way off from oversaturation. Define overly imitative? I have been thinking of finally replacing those placeholder example NPC names as they are just plays off famous characters and, for some reason, that came to mind when you said it. Mors Rattus posted:The thing about anime is that it's an aesthetic, not really a genre. It contains genres. Well, it's not really like I went out to make an anime game. I made a shueisha battle comics game. Like, I'll risk being explicit here because few people read this and I can delete it later, but the game is, hopefully, a distillation of the themes, motiffs, and archetypes present in series like Naruto, One Piece, Boko no Hero Academia, and a little bit from Dragonball Z (I actually feel I'll need to make a different game to really hit that note and plan to at some point in the future). Like Teenagers From Outer Space, I chose a genre, some example series, and some model characters and storylines and just tried to emulate that than do an entire medium that contains stories ranging from Ursei Yatsuri to Neon Gensis Evangelion. God, I have no modern references. gradenko_2000 posted:I had a blast playing Tenra Bansho Zero (thanks Covok, you the man) but I'm afraid I'm so unexposed to anime that I can't really engage with most of the tropes that would otherwise be familiar to other people. Dude, I'll run Tenra Bansho Zero again...if I wasn't already trying to find time to run playtests of this game to drum up interest. But, later, I totally would. Say the word, dude, because that game is sicknasty. Liquid Communism posted:As a general hint, I'd suggest looking at other products that use similar elements and see how genericized they went in order to be 'safe'. Covok, you mention anime, so BESM is probably worth a look. The problem with that idea is that BESM actually had a lot of licenses ranging from Sailor Moon to Tenchi Muyo (but not Dragonball Z, as R. Tailson got that one and used his Fuzion engine) so they had a lot more leeway. When you got permission from the content creators (and or local license holders) you can do anything within your agreement. Might be better suited giving OVA a look for that. But, it was a good train of thought to consider and help me realize that. Thank you!
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 18:30
|
|
|
 at people trying to argue that "anime" is a single aesthetic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 18:37
|
|
|
Lemon-Lime posted:
I think there's a clear aesthetic that is common for anime, but at the same time not all anime has that aesthetic. And even then, that aesthetic varies heavily between studios and eras.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 18:43
|
|
|
Lemon-Lime posted:
     I agree, I personally don't feel they're all the same aesthetic. I think it follows the same line of argument that American comics all have the same style. And, while it's certainly true that each era of American comics had a predominant artist who style was heavily influential (for better and worse), it would be inaccurate to say all the artists drew in the same style and aesthetic. Covok fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jul 12, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 18:53
|
|
|
Anime is like autism, in that it is a spectrum disorder with a long list of symptoms; an individual autistic person must have several symptoms to be deemed autistic, but two different autistic persons could have no specific symptoms in common. Nevertheless, to quote famous supreme court justice Potter Stewart, quote:I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it... ...and that means that like the pornography Stewart was addressing, it is a "single aesthetic" in that it is a consistently identifiable category and the categorization is based on aesthetic attributes, even though reasonable, well-educated people could find it impossible to agree on a specific set of attributes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 18:56
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:Anime is like autism, in that it is a spectrum disorder with a long list of symptoms; an individual autistic person must have several symptoms to be deemed autistic, but two different autistic persons could have no specific symptoms in common. I'm just going to go out and say that I think this is kind of a lovely comparison to make.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:02
|
|
|
Liiiiiiitle bit, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:12
|
|
|
Antivehicular posted:You'd really think the RPG industry would have learned by now that if content is even theoretically PC-accessible, some player will want their PC to use it, and even if it's completely PC-inaccessible, it sets the tone for the game that the players will follow, so the tone of a game line is often set by its lowest point. quote:That's a moot point for Carcosa and LotFP, where the lowest points are clearly the intended tone no matter how much people claim otherwise, but it's done terrible things to games like Exalted. (Although it's not like the Exalted team didn't just keep digging this hole for itself, edition after edition.) There is a sketchy homebrew setting on this forum right now that does Exalted better than Exalted.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:12
|
|
|
Covok posted:I agree, I personally don't feel they're all the same aesthetic. I think it follows the same line of argument that American comics all have the same style. And, while it's certainly true that each era of American comics had a predominant artist who style was heavily influential (for better and worse), it would be inaccurate to say all the artists drew in the same style and aesthetic. What I am saying is, reboot Maid as a Mad Max-influenced artistic endeavor
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:23
|
|
|
Weirdly, when you say "I like anime" or "I'm a big fan of anime", no one comes boiling out of the woodwork to explain how anime isn't just a single thing for you to like and that it's so broad and diverse that it's meaningless to say you 'like' it. Say you don't like anime, on the other hand... Anime as a thing exists, and people can react positively or negatively to it as they like. Unless all those people at the campus anime club and attending anime cons and posting in anime forums are all fools who don't realize they have absolutely nothing in common with each other.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:32
|
|
|
Dr. Quarex posted:But are you arguing that someone who said "eh, I am not interested in playing a comic-book game" would be somehow making an illegitimate statement? I think it is disingenuous to claim that anime does not have some fundamental shared set of characteristics (even if obviously you do not have to think Sailor Moon looks like, uh, uhh, VAMPIRE HUNTER D there I remembered a thing) and that those characteristics can rub someone the wrong way or just not be someone's thing. And even if someone might be all about playing a gritty game about future soldiers fighting an alien menace, wrapping it in a comic book art style might make people disinterested (however unjustifiably). Huh? I don't follow. All I'm saying is I don't think all the shows lookalike. You can like what you want, I'm not going to force you or judge you on it. If you don't like stuff in a comic book art style, that's your perfectly valid preference. I was going more for storytelling style in the game design than art styles, but it is still your preference, at the end of the day. I'm not going to fault you for anything. I guess what I'm saying is that, going in, I recognized FEV was not going to be for everyone and I was okay with that. I tried my best to make a game that emulated some comic books I liked when I was a teenager and understood not everyone likes those comics. I made it with the intent of pleasing me and people like me so, if you don't like it, that's cool. We don't all have to like the same things and it's perfectly valid to not like shonen battle manga or things in that story or art style. If that's a deal breaker for you, I respect that. I can understand, frankly, since chainmail bikinis or overly generic D&D fantasy is generally a deal breaker for me (I prefer eastern fantasy and don't like cheesecake-y art). However, I have a demographic in mind, fans of comics like those Naruto, One Piece, and the such, and feel that trying to appeal to everyone will only hurt the product by diluting it. That doesn't mean it's perfect, it doesn't mean it can't improve, but it does mean I don't feel I need to get every single person on board, just those who I think will like the title and have fun with it. Does that make sense? Also, as for rebooting Maid, you might want to ask Ewen Clueny about that. He knows that engine a lot better than I do.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:36
|
|
|
FMguru posted:Unless all those people at the campus anime club and attending anime cons and posting in anime forums are all fools who don't realize they have absolutely nothing in common with each other. A little bit, though?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:37
|
|
|
FMguru posted:Weirdly, when you say "I like anime" or "I'm a big fan of anime", no one comes boiling out of the woodwork to explain how anime isn't just a single thing for you to like and that it's so broad and diverse that it's meaningless to say you 'like' it. i agree, petty tribalism is good
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:38
|
|
|
FMguru posted:Weirdly, when you say "I like anime" or "I'm a big fan of anime", no one comes boiling out of the woodwork to explain how anime isn't just a single thing for you to like and that it's so broad and diverse that it's meaningless to say you 'like' it. it is
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:39
|
|
|
I have done extensive research and concluded that anime is not for me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:41
|
|
|
Dr. Quarex posted:Basically my point though. I DO have experience with actual anime and still dislike it. I just do not understand how you can take it seriously with grim subject matter. And I do not much care for the opposite sexy-fun-flirty subject matter either because of the unfortunate overtones involved. I guess I would be open to playing, like, some sort of ordinary businessman anime game?!?! Covok posted:Define overly imitative? I have been thinking of finally replacing those placeholder example NPC names as they are just plays off famous characters and, for some reason, that came to mind when you said it. Covok posted:Also, as for rebooting Maid, you might want to ask Ewen Clueny about that. He knows that engine a lot better than I do.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:43
|
|
|
Ewen Cluney posted:I'm thinking of stuff like RandomAnime and BESM that try to copy a surface-level understanding of anime and aren't really even trying to do anything original. Compare that to something like Steven Universe or Breakfast Cult where someone is both drawing on Japanese pop culture as a source of inspiration and being really original. In the foreword to the first Flight anthology Scott McCloud had a great line about how there were artists who'd "metabolized" manga, so that they show its influence without slavishly copying. Now I'm just worried that I might be slavishly copying. Not sure how to check. Also, as an owner of Kagegami High, it's pretty legit. He also rebooted it as School Girls which was pretty fun when I played it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:47
|
|
|
Covok posted:Now I'm just worried that I might be slavishly copying. Not sure how to check. And thanks for checking out my game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 19:52
|
|
|
Ewen Cluney posted:I wouldn't sweat it too much. Just broaden your inspirations beyond anime if you haven't already. Most of the better Japanese creators do that, and not just Araki's obsession with classical sculpture and American pop music for JoJo. Oh, I have inspiration outside of the field. It's just more of "I'm trying to turn X stories into games so I mostly focus on getting their experience and might have had a bit of the ol' tunnel vision", if you catch my drift. I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it. And, no problem, they're fun. Oh, are you still going forward with finishing Dragon World, by the by?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 20:00
|
|
|
Covok posted:Oh, I have inspiration outside of the field. It's just more of "I'm trying to turn X stories into games so I mostly focus on getting their experience and might have had a bit of the ol' tunnel vision", if you catch my drift. I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it. https://twitter.com/nekoewen/status/876571012770316288
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 20:08
|
|
|
Ewen Cluney posted:We're going to kickstart the first Japanese Golden Sky Stories supplement (Mononoke Koyake/Twilight Tales) first, but then comes Dragon World. The cover art is done and it is extremely 90s anime: That cover is perfect! You got a backer from me already!
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 20:09
|
|
|
Going back to the KS, here is a question: should I get some draft layout down on the doc before I start showing it off or should I wait till after the KS? I have no skills with indesign and do not own a copy. I could take some time to learn it, however. But, I could also try to hire a layout artist. Which would make it more prudent to do it all after the KS. What would y'all suggest?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 20:16
|
|
|
Sometimes you forget just how stupid certain posters are, and then Leperflesh comes along to remind you just how dumb he is. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 20:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 01:20 |
|
|
Leperflesh posted:Anime is like autism Hahaha now diagnose exactly what the gently caress is wrong with you in the most clinically dry way so we can understand why you thought that would be an appropriate thing to say
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 20:19
|
|
