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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:To be fair not one but two Galaxy-class starships went charging into the Neutral Zone on a gambit to swipe lost technology from a dead civilization, and also Captain Kirk straight-up charged into Romulan space, punched out a Romulan guard, and stole a cloaking device. The Federation has not been pure as the driven snow on this matter either.
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Jul 12, 2017 14:59
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Angry Salami posted:I imagine the Klingons are big on hunting and have lots of big game reserves on their homeworld. Klingon environmentalists would probably be a bit more Teddy Rosevelt than hippies, but probably not that rare... We must keep them alive, so in the future we may kill their children!
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Jul 12, 2017 15:23
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Cojawfee posted:That would be an interesting plan. Send someone on a suicide mission with a ship that has some bad technology that appears to be superior but has a hidden flaw. This was the plot of Into Darkness.
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Jul 12, 2017 17:19
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Actually I think you'll find the plot of Into Darkness wa- 
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Jul 12, 2017 17:46
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Next DS9 episode: oh christ, the lounge singer
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Jul 12, 2017 21:56
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The_Doctor posted:Next DS9 episode: oh christ, the lounge singer Oh boy, here come all the Vic apologists. Vic is bad, y'all. Deal with it.
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Jul 12, 2017 21:57
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WampaLord posted:Oh boy, here come all the Vic apologists. Sounds like you have a lot of growing up to do
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Jul 12, 2017 21:58
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Vic is really good gently caress the haters
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Jul 12, 2017 22:00
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Vic is good. Vic's backdrop is ugly and bad. Some Vic scenes are too long because they are not the Defiant blowing things up or Garak being a plain simple tailor or the Sisko saying BASEball. I hated and resented Vic when DS9 first aired. Now I like Vic. Vic is good.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:01
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Vic is the best. It's Only A Paper Moon is one of the best DS9 episodes.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:01
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The first Vic episode was kinda dumb but his role in It's Only A Paper Moon makes him good forever in my mind.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:02
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Badda Bing Badda Bang is real good too
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Jul 12, 2017 22:03
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Vic is a more effective councilor than any ever seen in starfleet.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:03
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I've never really taken to the 60s rat pack thing, and this is more of the same.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:03
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The_Doctor posted:I've never really taken to the 60s rat pack thing, and this is more of the same. Hell, I like lounge singing and I still hate Vic. He's just not Star Trek, he sticks out like a sore thumb, like how Joe Piscopo did.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:05
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Vic would have been okay if he was a one- or two-episode thing, or if his appearances were way more infrequent. He suffers from the same problem as Ezri, where they add her to the mix so late in the game that just to get you familiar with her they basically have to jam her down your throat every other episode. However Ezri is at least cute and her character is interesting. Mirror Vic being inexplicably real is a good joke though
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Jul 12, 2017 22:06
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skasion posted:Ezri, where they add her to the mix so late in the game that just to get you familiar with her they basically have to jam her down your throat every other episode It's not that the producers thought "we have to make the audience like Ezri, let's tell fifty Ezri stories." It's that when you throw a new character into a show on its 7th season, the writers are like those old nature documentaries where they throw a dead cow into a river full of piranha: "OH THANK GOD SOMETHING NEW TO WRITE ABOUT PLEASE LET ME WRITE AN EZRI STORY." Same thing happened on Voyager when Seven was introduced.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:17
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Inescapable Duck posted:More or less what I was thinking. And they are carnivores (or at least lean far more towards it than humans) who prefer raw meat, so a healthy environment is even more key for their quality of life. Klingons would probably be all about healthy ecosystems even if their focus might be more on making it so that you can max out the number of huntables in a jungle space. There are certainly klingon farmers. Someone has to grow the gagh.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:22
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I hate Voyager but I've been selectively watching a few Voyager episodes just to see what it was like, I was young when it was on. What bothers me the most about it is actually how dark it is, literally. The sets are all poorly lit and the ship looks like a ghost house, some of the episodes are oogie boogie stuff too so it all feels like fantasy horror more than scifi. I would love to visit Deep Space Nine but I would probably kill myself if I had to be stuck on this dark depressing ship with these idiot characters. Most of the species aren't cool or have some horrifying racial trait like harvesting organs or whatever. I liked the Demon episode and Blink of an Eye because I like episodes about wonky planets.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:29
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Oh my god this is painful to watch and I've still got 26 minutes to go. Is it all 'Odo learns to lighten up with the help of his annoying pal Vic?'
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Jul 12, 2017 22:35
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The_Doctor posted:Oh my god this is painful to watch and I've still got 26 minutes to go. Is it all 'Odo learns to lighten up with the help of his annoying pal Vic?' Not really but that's a significant component
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Jul 12, 2017 22:35
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You know this is probably kind of a big strength of the Federation. If some alien gangsters made it so Sol was going to go supernova in ten years or twenty years, or blew up the Moon, or something, it seems likely that Federation governance could shift to Vulcan or Andor or something without a massive upheaval or the collapse of the entire system. If they had enough warning they could probably evacuate Earth in an orderly manner! Meanwhile losing Cardassia, Romulus, Qonos, Ferenginar, that'd basically be the end of those cultures as space-powers, even if it wouldn't mean there were no more Ferengis or Klingons around. I assume this may have happened to the Orions.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:54
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Nessus posted:Someone has to grow the gagh. Sure: slaves. The Klingon Empire isn't just the Klingon homeworld and Klingon colonies, it's all the slave species on tributary worlds within the Klingon borders. Kirk describes it thusly: quote:Gentlemen, I have seen what the Klingons do to planets like yours. They are organised into vast slave labour camps. No freedoms whatsoever. Your goods will be confiscated. Hostages taken and killed, your leaders confined. You'd be far better off on a penal planet. Infinitely better off.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:09
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Vic the character is good, lounge singing is loving awful
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Jul 12, 2017 23:16
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shadok posted:Sure: slaves. The Klingon Empire isn't just the Klingon homeworld and Klingon colonies, it's all the slave species on tributary worlds within the Klingon borders. Kirk describes it thusly: I've always wondered how the various non-federation states work. Either they have a bunch of slave/subject species we never see, or the Klingon population must be much much much larger than the Human population, because it has to rival the combined efforts of all Federation member species.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:19
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Tsaedje posted:Vic the character is good, lounge singing is loving awful I'll somewhat agree with this. Vic is ok, if annoying, but god the singing. Coming right after In the Pale Moonlight, this was such a jarring shift. gently caress that took an age to finish.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:25
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Trekmovie has been digging up Roddenberry's post-trek projects and the latest one is, drum-roll please, a 70's sex comedy.  It's based on a novel Gene didn't write, but he did his best to stuff it full of the Rod and Berries greatest hits.There's also this gem regarding the TMP novelization: quote:The novelization of The Motion Picture, written by the Great Bird himself, gets even more raunchy with Gene actually addressing (and refuting) Kirk/Spock slash fiction. At the same time he makes their relationship so intense that it seems weird that they’re not having sex (look up “T’hy’la” some time). There are regular status reports on the state of Kirk’s genitals, with the good captain getting a chubby in a meeting with his ex-wife and upon seeing his new Deltan navigator for the first time. Spock describes the Enterprise as having private rooms where he overhears couples boinking. Decker actually bones the Ilia-probe with V’Ger listening in. And, of course, there’s so much more discussion of Deltan promiscuity. And what the heck was Kirk’s mom doing with a “love instructor”? That one is mentioned on page one!
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Jul 12, 2017 23:27
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I just looked it up and Vic appears in 8 episodes, 2 in season 6 and 6 in season 7. 1 of those in season 7 is the mirror universe episode so that doesn't really count. He legitimately stars in 3 episodes, His Way, Paper Moon, and Badda Bing. I'll agree that His Way isn't really good and doesn't come in a good place tonally but Paper Moon and Badda Bing are legitimately some of the best episodes of Star Trek drama and comedy, respectively. The rest of those episodes he's on screen for a few minutes at most. Even if you don't like Vic - also if you don't like Vic you're wrong - he's barely a part of the show outside of his guest starring episodes. Plus if he wasn't a lounge singer how could we have gotten https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hPrxYRzuAg ? Spoilers for Badda Bing.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:28
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The Vic scene in the finale is really top notch, aside from some odd blocking.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:30
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I always assumed that the Klingons/Romulans had other species nominally aligned (like Naussicans, are they Klingon affiliated? They wear similar uniforms IIRC.) But I honestly never gave it too much thought.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:36
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Tsaedje posted:Vic the character is good, lounge singing is loving awful I find your analysis logical and compelling.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:37
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Trekmovie has been digging up Roddenberry's post-trek projects and the latest one is, drum-roll please, a 70's sex comedy. Yeah, Pretty Maids All in a Row was an expensive disaster and basically destroyed Roddenberry's non-Trek writing career.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:38
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Moriatti posted:Naussicans, are they Klingon affiliated? They wear similar uniforms IIRC. No, they're from somewhere in non-aligned space. They show up as pirates, or as mercs working for the Ferengi or the Orions.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:55
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Timby posted:This was the plot of Into Darkness. I thought for a second that maybe Into Darkness was so bad that I forgot some big plot element, but there doesn't seem to be anything similar in it.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:56
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shadok posted:Sure: slaves. The Klingon Empire isn't just the Klingon homeworld and Klingon colonies, it's all the slave species on tributary worlds within the Klingon borders. Kirk describes it thusly: To be fair, Kirk's description of Klingon Slave Worlds reads a lot like what an American in 1968 would say to a propective Soviet satellite state, and that was pretty much the 1:1 allegory--the Feds were the
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Jul 13, 2017 00:07
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For that matter, Ferengi probably don't eat the people they do business with
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Jul 13, 2017 00:23
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Trekmovie has been digging up Roddenberry's post-trek projects and the latest one is, drum-roll please, a 70's sex comedy. I actually owned a copy of the TMP novelization. Yeah, it's pretty out there. My favorite part was Kirk observing that, while he wasn't opposed to homosexuality, he had a decided preference for A) women B) lovers he could have sex with more than once every seven years Also I took the "love instructor" to be some Roddenberry-esque reference to "first dude my mom hosed." Who, apparently, he was named for and for some reason that was okay with his dad. Though, poo poo, it's Roddenberry. He probably genuinely meant "love instructor."
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Jul 13, 2017 02:28
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vermin posted:For that matter, Ferengi probably don't eat the people they do business with 
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Jul 13, 2017 02:55
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The Ferengi take consumerism very seriously
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Jul 13, 2017 04:25
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Shibawanko posted:I hate Voyager but I've been selectively watching a few Voyager episodes just to see what it was like, I was young when it was on. I've seen every episode and I don't think I would recognize the bridge if I saw a picture of it, it was always dark and poorly shot vs say the D bridge which had a very distinct look and feel.
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Jul 13, 2017 04:29
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