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Imola would be great. Nurburgring for Germany since new Hockenheim sucks or use some other DTM track.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:35
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Minto Took posted:Imola would be great. Nurburgring for Germany since new Hockenheim sucks or use some other DTM track. I loving love Imola so much.
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Jul 11, 2017 22:41
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Minto Took posted:or use some other DTM track. Norisring
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Jul 11, 2017 22:51
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Norns posted:The Indy circuit is a loving joke It owns.
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Jul 11, 2017 23:12
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Human Grand Prix posted:It owns. You are very wrong rn
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Jul 11, 2017 23:23
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I think the key short term for indycar is to make sure they can keep adding "classic" venues like Portland, Cleveland. etc. They're doing a good job of it to their credit.
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Jul 12, 2017 06:59
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Brands Hatch Indy absolutely owns, but not for 240mph single seaters.gret posted:gently caress NIMBYs! I don't think Rockingham has SAFER barriers, so it's unlikely IndyCar would race there. Well I guess they could always install them, and if they were using the roval might not even need them.
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Jul 12, 2017 08:53
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Dudley posted:Brands Hatch Indy absolutely owns, but not for 240mph single seaters. Ding ding ding Also, how many races happen at Rockingham anymore? In a vacuum it'd be great to see SAFER barriers added (...'cause who argues against safety?) but if it helps any other series too it might be a good investment. But that depends on the use cases.
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Jul 12, 2017 11:52
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harperdc posted:Ding ding ding Rockingham gets basically nothing on the oval any more, the road course has been the focus for a long time and the only major thing there is the BTCC. Everything else is club racing and track days. They're probably not going to spend money on SAFER barriers on the off chance Indycar comes calling given there was never great attendance when CART went to Rockingham.
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Jul 12, 2017 12:44
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   Honda Indy Toronto Fast Facts Race Weekend: Friday, July 14 - Sunday, July 16 Track: Streets of Toronto's Exhibition Place, an 11-turn, 1.786-mile temporary street course Race Distance: 85 laps / 151.81 miles Entry List: Honda Indy Toronto (PDF) Push-to-Pass Parameters: 200 seconds of total time with a maximum time of 20 seconds per activation. (for each race) Firestone Tire Allotment: Six sets primary, four sets alternate. Teams must use one set of primary and one new set of alternate tires in the race. Twitter: @HondaIndy, @IndyCar, #IndyTO, #IndyCar Event Website: https://www.hondaindytoronto.com 2016 Race Winner: Will Power (No. 12 Verizon Team Penske Chevrolet) 2016 Verizon P1 Award Winner: Scott Dixon (No. 9 Target Chip Ganassi Racing Chevrolet), 59.9073 seconds, 107.326 mph Qualifying Record: Gil de Ferran, 57.143 seconds, 110.565 mph, July 17, 1999 (Note: Will Power set a qualifying mark of 59.7747 seconds, 107.564 mph for the current layout in 2016.) NBCSN Broadcasts: Qualifying, 6:30 p.m. ET Saturday, July 15 (same-day delay); Race, 3 p.m. ET Sunday, July 16, CNBC/Sportsnet 360 (live); 7 p.m. ET Sunday, July 17, NBCSN (re-air) quote:Kevin Lee is the lead announcer for the NBCSN broadcasts this weekend alongside analysts Townsend Bell and Paul Tracy. Pit reporters are Jon Beekhuis, Katie Hargitt, Anders Krohn and Robin Miller. Advance Auto Parts INDYCAR Radio Network Broadcasts: The Advance Auto Parts INDYCAR Radio Network is led by chief announcer Mark Jaynes, with analyst Davey Hamilton. Turn reporters are Jake Query and Nick Yeoman, with Rob Howden and Michael Young reporting from the pits. All Verizon IndyCar Series races are broadcast live on the Advance Auto Parts INDYCAR Radio Network, Sirius 212, XM 209, IndyCar.com, indycarradio.com and on the INDYCAR Mobile app. Video Streaming: All practice sessions and qualifying for the Honda Indy Toronto will stream live on RaceControl.IndyCar.com and on the INDYCAR YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/indycar).
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Jul 12, 2017 15:25
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njsykora posted:Rockingham gets basically nothing on the oval any more, the road course has been the focus for a long time and the only major thing there is the BTCC. Everything else is club racing and track days. They're probably not going to spend money on SAFER barriers on the off chance Indycar comes calling given there was never great attendance when CART went to Rockingham. I saw a video of youtube of some really slow, tiny "trucks" running on the oval and it kicked rear end. I actually really like the oval. A wide, high speed non-symetrical flat banked square rear end thing. Rules.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:38
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I'll be at the race this weekend. Let's not hang out.
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Jul 12, 2017 16:58
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Cygni posted:I saw a video of youtube of some really slow, tiny "trucks" running on the oval and it kicked rear end. I actually really like the oval. A wide, high speed non-symetrical flat banked square rear end thing. Rules. I support any oval that isn't flat out all the way around, the more lifting/braking the better
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Jul 12, 2017 17:02
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harperdc posted:Ding ding ding On the oval, literally just EuroNascar I think (which incidentally also runs Brands Hatch Indy) although of course it could be argued as a benefit for anything running the roval too.
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Jul 12, 2017 19:15
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Dudley posted:Brands Hatch Indy absolutely owns, but not for 240mph single seaters. The USAC clips I've seen were cool. It's unique in how short it is.
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Jul 12, 2017 20:22
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Dudley posted:On the oval, literally just EuroNascar I think (which incidentally also runs Brands Hatch Indy) although of course it could be argued as a benefit for anything running the roval too. Euro Nascar doesn't go to Rockingham, it's effectively late models and those around a 1.5m oval probably isn't the best idea. I think the only oval race Euro Nascar does now is Venray in the Netherlands.
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Jul 12, 2017 21:04
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https://twitter.com/CGRTeams/status/885219743652827136 e: https://twitter.com/racewithinsulin/status/884858490669457408 (Has to be done because Canada prohibits direct advertising of Rx drugs) iospace fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 21:56
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iospace posted:(Has to be done because Canada prohibits direct advertising of Rx drugs) they are a better country than us
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Jul 12, 2017 22:13
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Dumb question. How does having more chassis options and such lead to higher costs in IndyCar? I always found that argument confusing. I ask because it feels like it was a lot easier back in the day for some rando team to get a year old chassis from an older team, try to run it and such then it is now.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:22
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Cygni posted:they are a better country than us The only two that allow it? US and New Zealand.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:27
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FuzzySkinner posted:Dumb question. Slight tangent, it would be nice if ICS set up a rule for Indy that as long as whatever you made has a properly sized safety tub, passes tests results and spec in May, you are allowed to run the car in the 500. This would a) give a test environment to see if more chassis means more cash and b) would bring back some of Indy's relevance. iirc, everybody stopped using the Panoz because it was poo poo and the company was dying anyway. </theorycrafting>
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Jul 12, 2017 22:36
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Minto Took posted:Slight tangent, it would be nice if ICS set up a rule for Indy that as long as whatever you made has a properly sized safety tub, passes tests results and spec in May, you are allowed to run the car in the 500. This would a) give a test environment to see if more chassis means more cash and b) would bring back some of Indy's relevance. Yeah I think it's time you kinda opened up the rule book for Indy. I'd also love for more Alonso's and the like to happen again like the old days. Is there any lessons that can be taken away from LeMans and how it's been run in that regard? I kinda almost wanna turn back the clock to pre-1995 in how Indy was run.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:43
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FuzzySkinner posted:Dumb question. If I'm supplying 21 cars with parts and I know I will be for a while, I'll make big molds for my CF parts so I run the autoclave less per part, I'll place bulk orders from mcmaster for my fasteners and get a discount, I'll make high quality jigs, buy any needed machinery, train well, and crank big runs of parts out at once which decreases the likelihood that stuff will get made wrong or damaged, and I know I can amortize my R&D+engineering costs out over hundreds of parts, so I can bid at a lower cost per part. If I'm supplying 2 cars, I'll essentially make every part by hand fresh every time, because I can't risk making a big investment in any one part, which means that each part takes a ton more time each. I also probably have to use highly paid, experienced master machiners due to the lack of jigs/training etc. Can't just give it to the high school shop sweepers to do, they will break too many or take way too long per part. Since I can't spread the R&D+engineering costs, and because of the manufacturing effort, price per part will be comparatively high. Someones gotta eat that cost, be they the teams, a manufacturer, somebody, cause my machine shop sure aint. Especially if the team I'm supplying may just switch next year anyway. Think of how many torn up racecars there were at Texas, and the estimate was $1.8m in damage. Thats actually... pretty drat good, honestly. For comparison to another series that has multiple chassis, a P2 "roller" costs $550k a pop. Oh by the way, that doesn't include electronics (the loom, the displays, the ECU boxes, steering wheel, sensors, trackside support, software), shocks, shock mounts, the engine, setup support, spares, wheels, driver AC or ducting (mandatory), engine ducting or mounting parts, gearbox mounting parts, and any other optional aeroparts and bits, and by the way, you need all of that. Realistically, they are pretty drat expensive per unit, and 1 of the 4 manufacturers is already making noise about not selling enough units to recoup their costs. Cygni fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 22:59
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FuzzySkinner posted:Yeah I think it's time you kinda opened up the rule book for Indy. I'd also love for more Alonso's and the like to happen again like the old days. Is there any lessons that can be taken away from LeMans and how it's been run in that regard? I kinda almost wanna turn back the clock to pre-1995 in how Indy was run. Cost capping and locking development for X number of years. The current (new for 2017) P2 rules cost capped the four chassis makers, who were also selected by tender and are the only four eligible. And they aren't able to freely develop for a period of time, so owners are guaranteed stability. That includes the engines. Any changes done would impact the whole grid (e.g. if they decided to slow the cars down again by reducing revs or horsepower, for example). Every make was allowed a Le Mans spec aero kit. Draconian rules? Sure. But look at the numbers they've gotten to for WEC P2, ELMS P2, and IMSA* in year one. 20-plus cars in P2 at Le Mans, all new (because nothing was grandfathered in from the old rules). *DPi is its own offshoot but those count as chassis sold I would suggest partnering with another series to reach scale and allow for others to share development and provide scale (ala P2), but who? Super Formula? Maybe, but they're also a single-chassis series. F2? Nah. And neither run ovals, which would mean either IndyCar has less safety or those series get tubbier tubs than needed to allow for ICS going to high-speed ovals. If safety standards are high and chassis are made of carbon fiber, and if only one series with a small pool of teams is going to use that chassis, it does not make sense in 2017 to have "run what ya brung" rules sets anymore. And without yearly updates (like in the 1980s/90s) there will be no natural secondhand market for chassis. But if the racing in ICS remains good, and the teams are able to expand and the series adds new teams, I'm happy. Diversity in engines will be easier to add. Let the old people grumble. But the world has moved on from those circumstances.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:09
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Way to ruin the fun. 
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Jul 12, 2017 23:10
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Minto Took posted:Way to ruin the fun. The technical fun, maybe. Then look further afield - Super Formula runs crazy downforce and are awesome but not built for ovals. P2, P3 are doing incredible things at scale. GT3/4 as well. But IndyCar needs what they do now to match their business model. At least it ain't the old car - ugly, unsafe, uninspiring. Just think of how good a pack of DW12s with the 2018 aero will look charging into turn one to start The 500 next year.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:15
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I finished watching most of the late CART era (1996-2002) and even when second hand chassis were available (they were updated yearly until mid-2002, and teams were also allowed to create their own aero parts for said chassis) it was pretty uncommon to run an old chassis, and the teams that did usually only ran them at the beginning of the year. In addition, until the 2000 season 1 chassis (in this case, the Reynard) was usually massively superior to all else.
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Jul 13, 2017 00:04
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Yeah the whole model is dependent on negotiated supply. You'd have to roll back winners circle program, team's swapping manufacturers etc. Probably in the future the engine is going to have to align with some other series.
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Jul 13, 2017 00:07
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Running old cars was generally more for Indy 500-only teams iirc.
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Jul 13, 2017 00:13
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Fernandez ran a Frankenstein car in early 1999. It was decent too.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:18
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Feels Villeneuve posted:Running old cars was generally more for Indy 500-only teams iirc. Kinda what I was getting at, and I'm saying this within reason. Obviously the IR-05 needed to be retired and should never see a race track again. I think this would be dependent on their being "works" teams again (ie Penske, Eagle, Coyote, McLaren) and then for there to also be the ability to buy up chassis from those teams when they'd get a new one. I think having strict rules in the series proper and then being more "loose" in the 500 could potentially help, but I'm unsure how you'd accomplish that in the year 2017. As odd as it sounds? F1 and IndyCar have the opposite problems. It feels like IndyCar could benefit from a few "works" teams, where as F1 needs customer cars. I am excited about the new car fwiw. This is just me wishing we could have "bump" day again. Uncle Jam posted:Yeah the whole model is dependent on negotiated supply. You'd have to roll back winners circle program, team's swapping manufacturers etc. I kinda wonder if IMSA, WEC, Indy, (Super Formula?) and F1 sharing some sort of common engine would help with the problems facing the series. btw thanks Harper, Cygni.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:22
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One of the bigger problems with bump day is that you'd have to solely rely on privateers bankrolling their own entry into the race. Car sponsors are going to be pretty bearish on the possibility of someone not making the race.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:27
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FuzzySkinner posted:I think this would be dependent on their being "works" teams again (ie Penske, Eagle, Coyote, McLaren) For what? For who? Penske and Ganassi may be losing major sponsors within 12 months of each other (Verizon scaling back, Target last year leaving after 20-plus years). When those two teams (plus Andretti having a revolving door and a driver paid for by Honda) rely on B2B and less on B2C advertising, it's a tough road and not a place to introduce "let's throw money at it" plans for the sake of old traditions or the amusement of a shrinking market. To mix sports metaphors together - Tobacco money is not walking through that door. quote:This is just me wishing we could have "bump" day again. It's a large investment to make for this, when you also consider running a team for The 500 involves so much more than it used to back in the day. When you're in the era of professional pit crews, it's hard to bring back two guys and a dog team support. When it's this expensive to go to the race - and the purse isn't seven digits, only six - the reward isn't high enough. quote:I kinda wonder if IMSA, WEC, Indy, (Super Formula?) and F1 sharing some sort of common engine would help with the problems facing the series. IIRC Super Formula leverages a lot from the Super GT engines, using the Toyota and Honda engines produced for the GT500 cars (currently 2.0 liter turbo fours). Fun fact, according to Wikipedia they used to base the engines off the old IndyCar V8s when Honda and Toyota both were in the IRL. I know the comment of using GT3 engines or some other engines has been made before, but those are too big and heavy for single seaters. Wonder if Chevy/Ilmor could be convinced to go to that turbo four, or if they'd survive a 500 mile oval race...
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Jul 13, 2017 01:46
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Instead of wishingg bump day comes back you need to prepare yourself for the days of not having 33 cars
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Jul 13, 2017 01:53
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Proud Christian Mom posted:Instead of wishingg bump day comes back you need to prepare yourself for the days of not having 33 cars I think 33 is still doable even in the face of the big teams losing sponsors and cars. The series is still positive about the car count increasing in the next year or two with new full-time teams and additional possibilities for expanding teams for Indy. (Didn't Lazier say he wanted to work towards having two cars in May?) A 24-car full time field is still within the realm of possibility within three or four years, though that might be the maximum without a third engine manufacturer. Finding 9 extra cars is nowhere near the stretch that has been finding 11-13.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:59
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harperdc posted:For what? For who? Yeah I hope I wasn't coming across as making GBS threads on the series in it's current form. I go to Indy and I'm beyond thrilled that there's still the sort of crowd we're getting. Same with Mid Ohio, etc. Just I get kinda sad we're not going to see something insane like "The Beast" and other parts of Indy lore making a come back. WindyMan posted:I think 33 is still doable even in the face of the big teams losing sponsors and cars. The series is still positive about the car count increasing in the next year or two with new full-time teams and additional possibilities for expanding teams for Indy. (Didn't Lazier say he wanted to work towards having two cars in May?) A 24-car full time field is still within the realm of possibility within three or four years, though that might be the maximum without a third engine manufacturer. Finding 9 extra cars is nowhere near the stretch that has been finding 11-13. The Hulman family will pitch in for another dallara or two to simply keep up traditions. That family catches a lot of poo poo, but I don't know if the "500" would even be around had Tony Sr. and co didn't buy the track, start USAC, etc.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:01
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FuzzySkinner posted:Yeah I hope I wasn't coming across as making GBS threads on the series in it's current form. Oh I understand - I spaced on joking about being the Fun Police, so that's on me. I'm not trying to be too harsh, just realistic. I want to see more teams and drivers, and would love a return to the days of four chassis, four engines, two tires, and a never-ending money fountain teams dip from. Plus it would probably be on a reasonably priced app now that we're in The Future, right? Right. But it's hard to see where that money and interest comes from. As for innovation - look at the LMP1s over the last five years since the adoption of hybrid rules. Massive power and efficiency improvements without losing anything on track. Between series regulations tightening and technical Evolution coming to a fine point, if you want to see real crazy ideas and revolutions vs evolution in powertrains and racing, it'll be non-ICE engines. I can't wait to see battery tech improve through racing.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:31
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harperdc posted:Oh I understand - I spaced on joking about being the Fun Police, so that's on me. I'm not trying to be too harsh, just realistic. I want to see more teams and drivers, and would love a return to the days of four chassis, four engines, two tires, and a never-ending money fountain teams dip from. Plus it would probably be on a reasonably priced app now that we're in The Future, right? Right. But it's hard to see where that money and interest comes from. Yeah it just saddens me that the sport couldn't find a way to keep the engine manufacturers happy. Chevy being back is great. The history of the GM/Chevy brand in the series, at IMS is impressive. I mean the namesake RACED AND WON the race. Not to mention wins by titans of the sport in terms of Mears, Fittipaldi, Luyendyk, Unser Jr., and such pre-2012. It's also great that Honda has stuck by the sport for what...24+ now? (even earlier if you count the efforts in 87 by Brabham-Judd). They're a part of IndyCar/Indy 500 lore now. Dallara has been a great help with the DW-12, and Firestone is another one of those of with an insane level of lore attached to the speedway/aowr. But it does break my heart when I see Ford not interested any more in spite of the great history they have attached the speedway, aowr. Same could be said about other things of that notre. I'm always optimistic though. It feels like the series is accomplishing great things in spite of some of the struggles they've had. You can't beat the talent that is in the sport right now, and the fans seem very loyal to it. A lot of the trackforum/crapwagon types think this sport is on it's deathbed, but I don't see that.
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Jul 13, 2017 06:38
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Aleshin out for Toronto, replaced by Saavedra. Aleshin is in Canada and with the team. Sounds like it might be issues with his funding source (Putin cronies banks used to smuggle kleptocracy funds) being under sanctions by the Canadian Govt.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:16
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Would've loved to see Wickens in that car, given that it's a home race for him, but I guess Saavedra's got that AFS money.
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Jul 13, 2017 17:42
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