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Meridian posted:Okay so can someone help me out with Quickenings here? I'm not really understanding. A warning message pops up when you go to select one saying "Each character can obtain up to three quickening licenses from those available on the board." I've gone over Vaan's entire Bushi board and there's three of the same quickening with different LP costs. I need to get this loving thing out of the way so I can get to a HP and Battle Lore slot but it's vague so I wanted to be sure I wasn't choosing something prematurely. IIRC the other two will go up in cost and change to the next tier once you unlock the first one. I also think (but could be remembering wrong here) there were four for some/all jobs in IZJS and you could only unlock three, but maybe they changed that for TZA. Just keep in mind you'll only get three.
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Jul 13, 2017 00:58
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Meridian posted:Okay so can someone help me out with Quickenings here? I'm not really understanding. A warning message pops up when you go to select one saying "Each character can obtain up to three quickening licenses from those available on the board." I've gone over Vaan's entire Bushi board and there's three of the same quickening with different LP costs. I need to get this loving thing out of the way so I can get to a HP and Battle Lore slot but it's vague so I wanted to be sure I wasn't choosing something prematurely. There's a finite number of quickening slots on the board and only one character can take three of them. This means if Vaan takes a quickening slot on the board, Balthier couldn't take his quickening at that slot. There's enough for everybody on the board but it can effect when characters max out their quickenings. Once a character takes a quickening slot, the next one they take is the level 2, and the third one is level 3, regardless of where it is on the board. I don't know how it is in Zodiac Age, I've only played a couple hours, but everyone used to have the same board in vanilla and didn't have class based ones like in Zodiac Age. I don't know how much overlap there is now but there used to be a lot more. It's ultimately pretty trivial because people used to cheese the LP system and get their full quickenings early on, which makes the game much easier. IZJS and Zodiac Age were pretty much created to make that more difficult but it's still not a system that punishes your quickening choices outside the scarcity I mentioned as far as I know. tl;dr It doesn't really matter since there's enough quickening slots for everyone.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:03
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Ventana posted:Idk if you mean me since I think I brought this up months ago or not, but just to be clear I don't think I ever said that SE should do that if they want FF7r to be popular. Nah I don't think it was you I think it was the usual Bad Opinion Gang I legit never heard anyone complain about the combat except for "too fast/too hard." What were the main complaints?
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Jul 13, 2017 01:15
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Kelp Me! posted:Nah I don't think it was you I think it was the usual Bad Opinion Gang I guess I belong to the bad opinion gang, I think FF7R will be silly with action combat and didn't like 13. That was mostly due to the bad storytelling and acting though, I was getting used to the combat. I think 12 is closer to traditional ATB FF? With some basic if-then statements bolted on. 13 is like flashy ATB. It's close, but I wouldn't call it traditional.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:19
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13 is bad because #ITPLAYSITSELF and yet i still have to press autoattack every time to let it select the skills to use, even 12 didn't do that
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Jul 13, 2017 01:20
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corn in the bible posted:13 is bad because #ITPLAYSITSELF and yet i still have to press autoattack every time to let it select the skills to use, even 12 didn't do that I'm so fuckin' sick of #ITPLAYSITSELF. That's actually a genre now, and, surprise! It ain't JRPGs. Guarantee anyone who uses that argument couldn't finish the game in question.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:23
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I did it, Ray. I made Vaan a Time Mage.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:35
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no you see, final fantasy was much more involved when i had to mash x to attack with everyone, as opposed to everyone attacking on their own until i tell them otherwise
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Jul 13, 2017 01:44
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Decided to restart since I wasn't terribly far into the game to rework some jobs. I was about to get hosed by Garuda because I didn't have enough Ranged action. Why I put Panelo as a uld is beyond me. Is Samurai/Knight essentially the same as Knight/Samurai, it just is different as far as when you gain certain abilities?
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Jul 13, 2017 01:48
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Endorph posted:no you see, final fantasy was much more involved when i had to mash x to attack with everyone, as opposed to everyone attacking on their own until i tell them otherwise 13 has the most involved combat in the series with the amount of paradigm switching you have to do, like did i play a different version then everyone
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Jul 13, 2017 01:51
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Endorph posted:no you see, final fantasy was much more involved when i had to mash x to attack with everyone, as opposed to everyone attacking on their own until i tell them otherwise but you do have to mash x in 13 and thats the problem
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Jul 13, 2017 01:52
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:There's a finite number of quickening slots on the board and only one character can take three of them. This means if Vaan takes a quickening slot on the board, Balthier couldn't take his quickening at that slot. There's enough for everybody on the board but it can effect when characters max out their quickenings. Once a character takes a quickening slot, the next one they take is the level 2, and the third one is level 3, regardless of where it is on the board. I don't know how it is in Zodiac Age, I've only played a couple hours, but everyone used to have the same board in vanilla and didn't have class based ones like in Zodiac Age. I don't know how much overlap there is now but there used to be a lot more. It's ultimately pretty trivial because people used to cheese the LP system and get their full quickenings early on, which makes the game much easier. IZJS and Zodiac Age were pretty much created to make that more difficult but it's still not a system that punishes your quickening choices outside the scarcity I mentioned as far as I know. You're thinking of the Esper slots.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:57
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mandatory lesbian posted:13 has the most involved combat in the series with the amount of paradigm switching you have to do, like did i play a different version then everyone No one knows how to play it for some reason
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Jul 13, 2017 01:58
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Am I correct in assuming FF12 autosaves every room transition? That's awesome, I once had to leave my PS2 on for 8 hours because I couldn't get to a save point in time to get to work. And I had 45 minutes to do it. Forget which area it was, but A Literal Hour to walk to a save spot, I can't believe they didn't figure that might be a problem for anyone.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:58
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Ultimately it's probably a good thing that FF's combat has often been so simplistic and one-note because it enabled stupid kids the world over to beat them and develop fond memories therein instead of being overly complex and thus forgotten.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:59
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corn in the bible posted:but you do have to mash x in 13 and thats the problem yeah i agree but people act like the thing i said, is the problem
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Jul 13, 2017 01:59
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13 has the same issue as the rest of the series, most randoms don't require much effort beyond a couple paradigms if that. Bosses are fine, just like the rest of the series. Otherwise it's a different battle system than usual but still solid. The game's horrible pacing makes it look weaker due to all the two-person segments. Randoms are only threats in 1 and 2, and that's more because dungeons weren't structured around bosses like they were for 3 and up.
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Jul 13, 2017 01:59
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Kelp Me! posted:Nah I don't think it was you I think it was the usual Bad Opinion Gang Dang, clearly I need to post more about FF13 to get into the Bad Opinion club Kelp Me! posted:
Partially that, but unironically it was mostly the automation arguments that I saw. One person I knew in particular hated the fact that the game took away control of your party members, and unlike FF12 you couldn't adjust their AI patterns. I tried to explain to him that FF13 still let you influence the AI in certain ways (spell decisions from Libra Info, Targeting decisions from Paradigm construction), but those are kinda complicated subjects. It was more or less what Endorph was joking with. I also tried to explain to him that Auto-battle was good but manual selection is almost always better so you can't use Auto-battle like a crutch, and then he gave me a "too fast/hard" rebuttal so yeah.
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Jul 13, 2017 02:03
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Help Im Alive posted:No one knows how to play it for some reason It does a poor job of explaining itself, offers no challenge for an incredibly substantial length of time, and then sharply spikes in difficulty in the build towards the end. It's unevenly paced at best, and at worst it's an at-best-decent set of combat mechanics applied poorly to the structure of an RPG. The puzzle battles against the summons were the only interesting part of the game, and I felt like they were trying to teach me lessons about gameplay, but later enemies never utilized those sorts of gimmicks. Making you get game over if the player character dies rather than a party wipe and then adding doom enrage mechanics to boss fights was also annoying. If my strategy to beat a boss involves whittling him down slowly, why punish me for trying that route? Speed isn't even a major element of the combat, not enough to be made so central to certain bosses. The game's story and writing are objectively stupid. I don't think Final Fantasy has produced a more incoherent mess of a plot, not even in FF8.
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Jul 13, 2017 02:03
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"my name is amalia" --ashe
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Jul 13, 2017 02:06
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I think it would be cool to combine the Gambit and Paradigm systems, but use Job Classes instead of the "roles" of the existing Paradigm System. And then have a button that gives you absolute 100% turn-based control for tough/boss fights. Best of all worlds, mostly.
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Jul 13, 2017 02:08
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Oh OH! So we just don’t use loving spoiler tags any more?!
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Jul 13, 2017 02:09
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I want ff14's combat system in a single player game. Playing as a ninja is probably the most fun controlling and doing stuff outside of those occasional infinite Air Dash Noctis moments.
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Jul 13, 2017 02:11
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FF7R would sell great with TB/ATB combat as well, but it's action because that's the direction Square's taken AAA final fantasy based on presently popular design trends as well as the fact that every game that Nomura's directed has been an aRPG.
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Jul 13, 2017 02:14
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Mega64 posted:13 has the same issue as the rest of the series, most randoms don't require much effort beyond a couple paradigms if that. I'm honestly starting to wonder if RPGs having randoms being a threat is a bad thing. Everytime I start off on a game with hard random encounters (like FF4ds, or for me a SMT game/Bravely Second), I usually end up disliking it on my first playthrough. And only when I reflect back on the game and give it another go is when I start to appreciate it. It's a bit boring for random mob fights to mostly be weak but it makes sense when you want people to enjoy themselves. I liked FF13's approach in general where in a lot of areas they would have standard random fights + somewhere introduce some larger tougher enemy like the Boxed Phalanx for you to deal with. FF12 peppers in strong enemies too iirc but it's been a while and I need Zodiac Age. 8-Bit Scholar posted:Speed isn't even a major element of the combat, not enough to be made so central to certain bosses. I disagree with most of this post, but this part is straight up wrong. The game gives you a rank based on time after every battle. I don't get what else devs could shove in players faces to tell them "Hey look we care about how fast you do poo poo here".
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Jul 13, 2017 02:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f1S3etSTAQ i hated how slow ff12 was and this is better. this is much better
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Jul 13, 2017 02:21
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Motto posted:FF7R would sell great with TB/ATB combat as well, but it's action because that's the direction Square's taken AAA final fantasy based on presently popular design trends as well as the fact that every game that Nomura's directed has been an aRPG. A friendly reminder that "more action based" is to date literally the single piece of information we have about the battle system which really isn't saying much considering the systems from the last few games. The big buzzword around 13's combat was "cinematic" (they were trying to make the battles look like the poo poo from Advent Children) and that turned out pretty great IMO.
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Jul 13, 2017 02:36
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I'm not trying to knock it, all things considered Square and Nomura have been pretty good at making accessible aRPG systems.
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Jul 13, 2017 02:44
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FF15 has really really good combat.
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Jul 13, 2017 02:45
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corn in the bible posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f1S3etSTAQ I've played the game entirely in 2x so far and I'll up it to 4x when I get to the Sandsea. It takes longer than I thought to get to the Tomb of Raithwall and therefore unlock the majority of the game, but the game is still fun and better than ever.
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Jul 13, 2017 02:46
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corn in the bible posted:"my name is amalia" --ashe Steiner's name is Adelbert. Ventana posted:I'm honestly starting to wonder if RPGs having randoms being a threat is a bad thing. Makes sense to me. Having randoms to slow you down make better sense than having them possibly wreck your poo poo in a moment's notice if you don't know the game's systems. Of course, why have randoms at all other than "pad out gameplay" and "give opportunities to try out new gear/abilities" but that's a whole other question and I'm about to go to sleep so gently caress that. At least later games let you see what you fight before you fight them. I'm just giving a bit of poo poo at the whole "mash X" thing since you won't win doing that on the battles that matter, just like how you can get away with COM/RAV/RAV or MED for most regular battles but will quickly get wasted or take forever to win if you try it on a boss.
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Jul 13, 2017 02:51
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corn in the bible posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f1S3etSTAQ I just crank the battle speed up to Max. That seems fast enough for me.
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Jul 13, 2017 02:59
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Ventana posted:I disagree with most of this post, but this part is straight up wrong. The game gives you a rank based on time after every battle. I don't get what else devs could shove in players faces to tell them "Hey look we care about how fast you do poo poo here". Okay, it's a factor in determining post-fight exp bonuses. The ranking basically doesn't matter for half the game, since most battles are over pretty quick once you figure out what job combo the game wants you to be using for a certain area. It is in no way so essential as to justify a loving enrage mechanic. If I wanna eat a lovely score and just get a win, that's my loving prerogative.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:22
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Okay, it's a factor in determining post-fight exp bonuses. The ranking basically doesn't matter for half the game, since most battles are over pretty quick once you figure out what job combo the game wants you to be using for a certain area. this is exactly why you were having to deal with the enrage thing, because otherwise you'd never learn and fight orphan for five hours
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Jul 13, 2017 03:25
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Jul 13, 2017 03:27
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Endorph posted:no you see, final fantasy was much more involved when i had to mash x to attack with everyone, as opposed to everyone attacking on their own until i tell them otherwise solution: make the game more difficult so that you have to do things other than attack
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Jul 13, 2017 03:42
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Bongo Bill posted:solution: make the game more difficult so that you have to do things other than attack its a rerelease you idiot
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Jul 13, 2017 03:54
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corn in the bible posted:its a rerelease you idiot what the christ are you babling about corn in the bible
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Jul 13, 2017 04:00
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It's not a matter of raw difficulty, it's a matter of balance and care. It's about considering what enemies are arranged together and how they interact. Persona 5 features reasonably straight-forward turn-based combat but it makes it work by synergizing it perfectly with its customization elements which are themselves merged very well with the story progression and world-building elements. All of the elements of the game feed seamlessly into one another. That was sort of what makes FFV so great is that it's got reasonably diverse and challenging bosses throughout. Even early on you're encountering more puzzling enemies like the ship graveyard. Even the first boss has a tricky gimmick to it. These scenarios can be circumvented in a variety of ways most often, which plays to the strengths of the job system. You usually can't just overwhelm an enemy with pure power -- and late game bosses feature really crazy gimmicks, like casting toad on the whole party right out the gate. FFIV and FFIX are similar but in a different direction, as they're highly linear games that lock your party choices for significant portions of the game. This helps maintain player power, preventing you from getting too strong and just stomping every boss; it also allows the designers to know exactly what skills you can use against what bosses, and build them accordingly.
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Jul 13, 2017 04:03
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This is why I like SMT games so much: random battles will kill you if you just want to spam the X button like a clown. I couldn't tell you the name of a single enemy in FF7/8/9 but I could tell you exactly what demon has what weakness and what their names are for almost every entry of the SMT series because knowing that information is actually important to your success. That being said, FFX and XII are my favorite installments in the series. X I absolutely hate everything about the story and characters but the gameplay has a ton of involvement in building your sphere grids and I've played through it multiple times just because of that fact. Bosses actually have patterns that require you to pick up on them and employ strategies other than "heal when your health gets low." X is one of the more difficult games in the series for that reason alone, just look at how many people have trouble with the Seymour fights. XII is fun because the open world allows for so many game-breaking shenanigans but finding them all required a ton of communication for a very long time. Dustia farming wasn't even discovered until the game had been out for over a year, before that people used to chain werewolves in the desert, but to do that you needed the wind weapon a special enemy dropped after chaining a certain number of wolves and then going to a specific map. The games just so complicated and vast and having a knowledge of all the things you can do and when you can do them feels really good.
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Jul 13, 2017 04:05
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