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Truga posted:that's less of an android problem and more of a vendor problem though imo. i'm about five pages late, but that seems like a good reason to poo poo on windows the oem model is totally hosed, and that has horrendous security implications for users
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Jul 12, 2017 23:02
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i'm about five pages late, but that seems like a good reason to poo poo on windows what would be a better model? making users install a fresh copy when they get their new laptop?
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Jul 12, 2017 23:07
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i assume he means a lack of centralized updates leading to orphaned insecure peripherals? lol if you think Linux is better though
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Jul 12, 2017 23:08
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hobbesmaster posted:i assume he means a lack of centralized updates leading to orphaned insecure peripherals? I figured he meant OEM preinstalls, because it was in reference to superfish
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Jul 12, 2017 23:10
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Subjunctive posted:what would be a better model? making users install a fresh copy when they get their new laptop? well, that would work, i guess or microsoft could just insist that OEMs not gently caress with the operating system in their contracts. but they don't. because microsoft doesn't really care if OEMs are fuckups.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:11
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:well, that would work, i guess Because they could do that
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Jul 12, 2017 23:17
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OEMs often have to add drivers that aren't part of the OS, and software to update them. (Plus people GE deals on bundled software.) I'm not sure MSFT could really draw that line without thoroughly reviewing every version of the relevant programs. we went through this with Firefox and distributors, it never worked well.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:18
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Mr.Radar posted:the developers of the pvs studio static analyzer ran it on about 3% of the tizen codebase and discovered over 900 coding errors (note: not static analysis warnings, actual, needed to be fixed, programming errors). extrapolating, they estimate that if this was a representative sample of the tizen codebase they would have found over 27k errors if they had analyzed all of tizen. quote:One of the developers, who has looked through our presentation and did not really think it through, commented something like "27 000 analyzer warnings isn't really an achievement, it's really not that much". So again, let me emphasize that we are talking about real errors. During the research, I was noting down and counting only errors, not just all the analyzer warnings.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:18
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apseudonym posted:Because they could do that this p. much, would be an antitrust tarpit. unfortunately, since we really are moving beyond the point where it makes sense to have the unnamed chinese oem meddle in the software you as a user trusts with a lot of your stuff
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Jul 12, 2017 23:20
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Subjunctive posted:OEMs often have to add drivers that aren't part of the OS, and software to update them. no they *really* don't. don't use a shitshow proprietary wifi solution that does everything wrong, windows already supports all the ones that work correctly out of the box. hell, windows even supports the many many lovely ones, but it's still better to go with that if you insist on bad, at least it'll update correctly.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:32
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why do you think OEMs choose those wifi/bluetooth/Optimus/sound/Ethernet devices? to make their lives difficult? I have straight up Intel wifi and Bluetooth that need drivers when I pave over an install. what should I use instead?
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Jul 12, 2017 23:40
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mail intel to get their head out of their rear end and mail the driver to microsoft so they include it in update already. these things should happen *before* your thing is on the market, not after.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:44
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Subjunctive posted:why do you think OEMs choose those wifi/bluetooth/Optimus/sound/Ethernet devices? to make their lives difficult? to save a nickel per ten thousand units microsoft could very easily demand oems ship un-altered microsoft software as a condition of their sweet, sweet discounts. odds are it would be cheaper for OEMs to stick to devices with pre-existing WHQL drivers than pay full price for windows. but microsoft doesn't really care if they have a security story that makes sense
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Jul 13, 2017 00:03
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if Microsoft was saying oems cant ship with non-Microsoft software installed, even if its subpar and detrimental to the user like MacAfee or firefox, they'd get hit w/ some bullshit by the ftc so fuckin fast. w/ drivers Microsoft doesn't want to be responsible for updates cause who knows what kind of untested configurations are out there that are working fine on their oem release drivers but will break when given the latest stuff. not to mention, how much related software should they bundle w/ the driver?
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Jul 13, 2017 01:15
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I'm pretty sure shovelware is the only thing that makes consumer pcs remotely profitable
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Jul 13, 2017 02:35
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hackbunny posted:I'm pretty sure shovelware is the only thing that makes consumer pcs remotely profitable
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Jul 13, 2017 03:01
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hackbunny posted:I'm pretty sure shovelware is the only thing that makes consumer pcs remotely profitable it's this. even with the shovelware they're only netting something like $15 profit per pc
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Jul 13, 2017 03:07
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isn't that the manufacturer's own drat fault for setting price points so low for so long that people expect that? if they want to be profitable they need to bite the bullet and raise prices.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:39
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cis autodrag posted:isn't that the manufacturer's own drat fault for setting price points so low for so long that people expect that? if they want to be profitable they need to bite the bullet and raise prices. The problem with a race to the bottom is that once you get there, you are stuck.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:41
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yospol
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Jul 13, 2017 03:44
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that's what those "signature" edition pcs were all about, idk if they sold all that well and of course you can buy macs to avoid shovelware too if you want to compete in the low-end on price though, you're going to lose out to the ones coming with bloatware if you price your pc $15 more expensive to make up the loss, people really are that cheap
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Jul 13, 2017 03:45
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Jimmy Carter posted:my girlfriend just started as IT person #1 at an office of like 60 and they are apparently freaking out that they don't 'have a firewall' yet late, but have her take a look at the log on the ap and do a quick audit of what's allowed to connect and what connected recently. if the number of recent unique clients is anything above a rounding error of authorized laptops + phones + whatever stupid iot poo poo's in the office, burn everything down and re-issue, then have management make it an actionable offence to share creds to visitors or whatever if you have any significant amount of visitors that require conectivity, you're already well into outsourcing asap territory, especially if you're running a flat network have management green light funds for contractors & gear yesterday
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Jul 13, 2017 03:53
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:The problem with a race to the bottom is that once you get there, you are stuck. introduce more expensive, durable lines and slowly phase out the chinesium garbage that they sell now. Apple has a lot of computer models but compared to HP or whatever they have very very few. they could reduce their operating costs by only needing to make 12 different models of higher cost, sell them as competitors to Apple for $300 less and still make quite a bit of money
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Jul 13, 2017 03:57
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the main issue would be all the smaller Chinese and Korean companies that are super ok with only making $5-$15/unit to Americans who don't understand that buying a $200 piece of poo poo every two years is more expensive than buying a $600 computer every six years the politics of the poor generally being unable to do this but still needing a computer aside I guess
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Jul 13, 2017 04:01
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re: unaltered windows, there's a bunch of stuff on my precision that's not handled natively and requires dell spec drivers. just off the top of my head my quadro outright rejects stock nvidia drivers & ddp stuff i'm not sure i can even talk with my biometrics oems providing drivers installed is fine even if a reference copy of windows can make sense of the hardware imho, as long as the extra content is of actual use and not bullshit bloatware. in my ideal world, a new machine would submit a manifest of what's been hosed with by the oem, with clear this is a driver & this is ~bonus additional content~ that requires a user to opt into. i mean i do use a couple non-critical things from dell like their more granular (wrt hardware options) power manager & their precision optimizer thing, had i had the choice i would've opted in to at least check them out running on an opt-in system wouldn't even be a financial hit for oems, since even if you lose 10-20% of the user yield they can still look advertisers right in the eye and say "this is the deal now, get hosed if you don't like it". they get paid for delivery, maybe with a bonus for conversion, but the same people that would opt out are already uninstalling anyway re: users installing windows on arrival, at this point installing windows is literal child's play, but as a consumer i'd expect my thing to arrive at my door ready to run out of the box, even as a weirdo that'll still do a clean install and re-image regularly i'm also 90% sure you have to ship systems with the os installed to qualify for the massive oem discount, ms stopped issuing actual serials for oem licences somewhere around win7 or 8
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Jul 13, 2017 04:19
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40583718
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Jul 13, 2017 04:24
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:the main issue would be all the smaller Chinese and Korean companies that are super ok with only making $5-$15/unit to Americans who don't understand that buying a $200 piece of poo poo every two years is more expensive than buying a $600 computer every six years there's a non trivial amount of people that'll buy $1000 cars (if even), $200 laptops and $50 prepaid phones; i can't say what the ratio of "straight up poverty" to "doesn't care/understand" is, but those $200 computers allow a whole bunch of people who would otherwise be priced out to have access to basic internet & computing. $600 is out of reach for a whole bunch of people, even if it's the superior choice per any other metric imaginable. the cheap, quickly replaced hardware market is also good money because of the volume & velocity, i don't see oems getting out of it any time soon because that would just be giving the market to china/used sales agreed that anyone else able to spend a bit more should, i spent a fair amount of time in 2015-2016 successfully arguing with family members & friends for who i run computer janitor services to double up on their expected spend for their next replacement, and if by magic the number of calls i had to field in 2017 dropped by 80%, plus they get to actually run stuff released in the 2010s
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Jul 13, 2017 04:50
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yosmas 2017 suggestion: http://enigmamuseum.com/replica/
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Jul 13, 2017 04:51
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surebet posted:re: unaltered windows, there's a bunch of stuff on my precision that's not handled natively and requires dell spec drivers. just off the top of my head my quadro outright rejects stock nvidia drivers & ddp stuff i'm not sure i can even talk with my biometrics signature edition laptops are good like that and litterrally the same price as direct from the oem. its weird.
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Jul 13, 2017 04:56
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surebet posted:late, but have her take a look at the log on the ap and do a quick audit of what's allowed to connect and what connected recently. if the number of recent unique clients is anything above a rounding error of authorized laptops + phones + whatever stupid iot poo poo's in the office, burn everything down and re-issue, then have management make it an actionable offence to share creds to visitors or whatever The current wifi solution for the office has been discovered: they're using the combo router/AP that FiOS comes with 
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Jul 13, 2017 05:11
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:the main issue would be all the smaller Chinese and Korean companies that are super ok with only making $5-$15/unit to Americans who don't understand that buying a $200 piece of poo poo every two years is more expensive than buying a $600 computer every six years catering to americans who still have money is not a growth strategy
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Jul 13, 2017 05:18
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surebet posted:re: unaltered windows, there's a bunch of stuff on my precision that's not handled natively and requires dell spec drivers. just off the top of my head my quadro outright rejects stock nvidia drivers & ddp stuff i'm not sure i can even talk with my biometrics this all reminds me of the amazon kindle system of having a discounted adware model and a non-discounted real model except pcs just skip the real model and go with letting third parties completely put whatever software they want on there who cares
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Jul 13, 2017 05:21
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The irony is that they originally always showed ads, but so many people complained about how they spent money for a thing that was going to advertise at them, that Amazon relented and added a no-ads model afterwards for $10 extra.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:27
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oh is that why my kindle lockscreen is always ads for lovely books? i didn't buy it so i assumed that was normal. they don't show up anywhere else so who gives a gently caress.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:33
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Or like how windows 10 shows ads on the lock screen
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Jul 13, 2017 05:42
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cis autodrag posted:oh is that why my kindle lockscreen is always ads for lovely books? i didn't buy it so i assumed that was normal. they don't show up anywhere else so who gives a gently caress. it shows even fewer ads once you root it and put something else on there 
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Jul 13, 2017 05:59
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BiohazrD posted:Or like how windows 10 shows ads on the lock screen it doesn't if you turn it off
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Jul 13, 2017 06:05
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Jimmy Carter posted:The current wifi solution for the office has been discovered: they're using the combo router/AP that FiOS comes with lemme guess, there's nothing between that and the server that stores all the proprietary, financial & hr stuff? lol time to show up at the office and smash that ap with a fire extinguisher, it's the only way to make sure they put out that garbage fire your gf needs to immediately  with these responsibilities if management isn't game to throw money at this right now
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Jul 13, 2017 06:56
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surebet posted:yosmas 2017 suggestion: http://enigmamuseum.com/replica/ Any idea how much that would cost? i'm guessing "way too much for a toy" just because of the sheer amount of labour required, but man i'd love to have an enigma machine
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Jul 13, 2017 07:11
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i've never seen an ad on my kindle and i just have the standard paperwhite no special editions or anything
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Jul 13, 2017 07:40
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