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The Bee posted:And even then, that aesthetic varies heavily between studios and eras. I mean, that's my point - there's an insane amount of different styles out there and even though they might share some aspects in common, it's incredibly dumb to suggest that there's a single "anime aesthetic." FMguru posted:Weirdly, when you say "I like anime" or "I'm a big fan of anime", no one comes boiling out of the woodwork to explain how anime isn't just a single thing for you to like and that it's so broad and diverse that it's meaningless to say you 'like' it. Yeah, funny how saying "I like [genre]" doesn't make you sound nearly as idiotic as "[genre] is like autism." 
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Jul 12, 2017 20:33
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people join "anime club" or "board game club" or even "theater" or whatever even when there are huge differences between examples of those mediums, because they're small groups and it's an opportunity to find some solidarity. you're a lot more likely to run into someone irl who likes The Tatami Galaxy in an anime club or Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead in a theater group than in a random bar or cafe, even if most people there don't, and odds are most people there have some amount of overlap with you. i figured this owuld be obvious but whoever asked that probably wasn't actually asking in good faith.
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Jul 12, 2017 20:58
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FMguru posted:Weirdly, when you say "I like rpgs" or "I'm a big fan of rpgs", no one comes boiling out of the woodwork to explain how rpgs aren't just a single thing for you to like and that it's so broad and diverse that it's meaningless to say you 'like' it.
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Jul 12, 2017 21:09
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I'd definitely make an effort to differentiate TTRPGs from Videogame RPGs and from the latter, WRPGs from JRPGs.
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Jul 12, 2017 21:21
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Plutonis posted:I'd definitely make an effort to differentiate TTRPGs from Videogame RPGs and from the latter, WRPGs from JRPGs. To what end? A further atomized nerd culture?
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Jul 12, 2017 21:23
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Ewen Cluney posted:We're going to kickstart the first Japanese Golden Sky Stories supplement (Mononoke Koyake/Twilight Tales) first, but then comes Dragon World. The cover art is done and it is extremely 90s anime: I'm down for that! Who's the artist?
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Jul 12, 2017 21:45
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Rand Brittain posted:I'm down for that! Who's the artist? https://twitter.com/dreamsbell https://www.patreon.com/DreamsBell
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Jul 12, 2017 21:56
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Zephirum posted:To what end? A further atomized nerd culture? Because it's a differentiation that's actually useful unlike trying to define what animes are or aren't anime enough.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:29
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Covok posted:Going back to the KS, here is a question: should I get some draft layout down on the doc before I start showing it off or should I wait till after the KS? I have no skills with indesign and do not own a copy. I could take some time to learn it, however. But, I could also try to hire a layout artist. Which would make it more prudent to do it all after the KS. For a text-complete draft to show to backers, a Google Doc or RTF should be just fine. If you create a "draft layout" before you have anyone doing "real" layout, it'll look jankier than just a text file that is clearly a preview draft. If you do a text-complete layout job with spaces cut out for the art, that will be impressive, reassuring and more attractive to backers, but that's a lot of work to do or money to spend before you even have any backers. Ettin posted:IIRC whoever does your layout will also need to make a PoD-ready version of your PDF with bleed space etc. but I don't know how that works. Yeah. And be ready to encounter weird obstacles that DTRPG doesn't explain in any of their tutorials or FAQs, and which may be document specific, like ink density color management issues. EDIT: Actually it looks like they've created a new FAQ/tutorial section (at least, new in the years since I looked) which has some stuff about ink coverage. It also has some stuff about crowdsourcing fulfillment. Check it out, if you haven't already. That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 22:33
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Kai Tave posted:Because it's a differentiation that's actually useful unlike trying to define what animes are or aren't anime enough. I mean, why am I even typing this? I have no doubt they are, and I obviously just do not know about them, but MAYBE THIS WILL SOMEHOW BE RELEVANT TO COVOK'S KICKSTARTER!
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Jul 12, 2017 22:33
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Dr. Quarex posted:Are divides in anime fandom that deep, though (not that you, specifically, are saying they are)? I have seen some pretty angry exchanges over the merits of CRPGs versus JRPGs, though I think they get less heated the farther we get from Final Fantasy VII's release. In Japan there's been bomb threats over a basketball anime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuroko%27s_Basketball#Controversies
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Jul 12, 2017 22:49
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Flavivirus posted:Somewhat relevant to current discussion, I was wondering if people would like to give feedback on the page for my next Kickstarter? I'm extremely unlikely to be paying DTRPG in GBP; you probably ought to dual-currency cite the DTRPG costs for printing. Deluxe hardbacks are nice but complicate your fulfillment. (If you were to add such a thing, the signed tier ought to be the deluxe edition.) I backed to get both the deluxe and regular editions of Blue Rose and Blades in the Dark. That said I bought 1st edition on dtrpg or bundle of holding or something and never got to play it, but I'm still interested in this new version off the "what's new" (and the Stranded Starfarers) so that's well done of you.
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Jul 12, 2017 22:50
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I've always liked the comparison to anime as a genre to metal as a music genre. There's a couple dozen different subsets that nerds put on these giant flowcharts. I don't think this is a green eggs and ham situation where someone who says they don't like anime or metal just needs to be introduced to the RIGHT subgenre in order to enjoy or appreciate it. It's OK to not like things.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:04
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That Old Tree posted:For a text-complete draft to show to backers, a Google Doc or RTF should be just fine. If you create a "draft layout" before you have anyone doing "real" layout, it'll look jankier than just a text file that is clearly a preview draft. If you do a text-complete layout job with spaces cut out for the art, that will be impressive, reassuring and more attractive to backers, but that's a lot of work to do or money to spend before you even have any backers. The plan I currently have is to use a copy of Adobe indesign to make an inprogress draft with boxes throughout with "X"s in them and the words "Placeholder" in the middle. It will be all the text from the draft, bookmarked, no index. If I'm going to take some time to market before the KS, I might be able to knock this out. Unreasonable? I have LITERALLY no Indesign experience.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:13
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Dr. Quarex posted:Are divides in anime fandom that deep, though (not that you, specifically, are saying they are)? I have seen some pretty angry exchanges over the merits of CRPGs versus JRPGs, though I think they get less heated the farther we get from Final Fantasy VII's release. Don't ask about subs vs dubs, people get hurt that way.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:18
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All I'm saying is that it isn't really "further atomizing nerd culture" to make it clear when you say "yeah I like RPGs" whether you're talking about Final Fantasy, Skyrim, or D&D.
Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 23:31
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Covok posted:I'm just going to go out and say that I think this is kind of a lovely comparison to make. Mors Rattus posted:Liiiiiiitle bit, yeah. Nuns with Guns posted:Hahaha now diagnose exactly what the gently caress is wrong with you in the most clinically dry way so we can understand why you thought that would be an appropriate thing to say I'm sorry. While it's no secret I'm not a fan of anime, I did not intend to suggest that people who like anime are autistic, nor to use autism as a pejorative (something which is often and inaccurately said of me, on these forums, even). I was intending to draw an analogy and those (autism, pornography) were the examples that came to mind: of categories of thing where you cannot reductively create a definition that is both sufficiently inclusive and not wildly inaccurate for many items within the category. I chose poor examples and I'm sorry. Now, I'd like to take a moment as an aside to say this: my mother is a speech pathologist and she specialized in working with children with autism. Growing up I spent several summers as a volunteer in special education summer classes, working with disabled children, some of whom were autistic. As a young adult while in college I worked at the private practice she co-ran, which included several speech therapists working with austistic children, for whom I did medical billing. I have at least one family member who is on the spectrum. To me, autism is a fascinating and challenging medical subject; autistic people are frequently and tragically misunderstood, and I find it somewhat repellent the degree to which people online - and especially on SA - enjoy using an accusation of autism as a pejorative. So having said that, I feel particularly embarrassed to have created the impression that I was doing exactly that. I don't like anime and I hate the way discussions about anime seem to infect virtually every other topic of discussion, eventually. I'm tired of these conversations and would like them to go away. But no, liking anime is not a symptom of autism, and even if it were, that would not be a reason for disliking someone who liked anime, or treating them differently or (especially) with disrespect. I could not off the top of my head think of another simple and well-known analogy of a category defined by a set of attributes with the expectation that members of the category would fit only a random subset of attributes; but what I should have done is thought of some other case, or else not said anything at all. So what the gently caress is wrong with me is that I have a tendency to make posts incautiously and without sufficient restraint. I'll try to work on that.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:32
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Covok posted:The plan I currently have is to use a copy of Adobe indesign to make an inprogress draft with boxes throughout with "X"s in them and the words "Placeholder" in the middle. It will be all the text from the draft, bookmarked, no index. If I'm going to take some time to market before the KS, I might be able to knock this out. Unreasonable? I have LITERALLY no Indesign experience. The more finished your product, the better you will be able to convince others they will actually receive something for their money. The more finished your product, the greater the ease of use in playtesting, the more buzz you can get, and the less work needs to be done later. The more you learn about layout and editing, the less you will have to pay others to produce your products, the better you will be able to speak to others about your desires should you subcontract those tasks out, and the more easily you will be able to bring products to market. The main reason to forgo doing the job right the first time is that you can't wait to make those tens of Kickstarter dollars, for whatever reason.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:37
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Dr. Quarex posted:Are divides in anime fandom that deep, though (not that you, specifically, are saying they are)? I have seen some pretty angry exchanges over the merits of CRPGs versus JRPGs, though I think they get less heated the farther we get from Final Fantasy VII's release. The Saimoe x SaiGAR war of a decade ago was perhaps one of the greatest conflicts on Earth.
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Jul 12, 2017 23:55
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Leperflesh posted:I don't like anime and I hate the way discussions about anime seem to infect virtually every other topic of discussion, eventually. This is a thread about tabletop rpgs in a forum about tabletop rpgs and board games, which in theory can cover literally any genre, storytelling technique, or culture. This thread spent four pages talking about fallout and batman vs superman a week ago. I get that anime as a fandom is insufferable and infested with the worst people but this is such a weird thing to give a poo poo about on the modern internet. Like flying into a rage that people are talking about pop music or football. e- also someone make a football ttrpg
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Jul 13, 2017 01:42
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Covok posted:The plan I currently have is to use a copy of Adobe indesign to make an inprogress draft with boxes throughout with "X"s in them and the words "Placeholder" in the middle. It will be all the text from the draft, bookmarked, no index. If I'm going to take some time to market before the KS, I might be able to knock this out. Unreasonable? I have LITERALLY no Indesign experience. It depends on how well you take to InDesign. It's a complex tool that can take a lot to get what you want out of it. Be completely unafraid to ask questions. Make sure you start with the DTRPG print templates in mind, because trying to work backwards into that would be terrible.
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Jul 13, 2017 02:10
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That Old Tree posted:It depends on how well you take to InDesign. It's a complex tool that can take a lot to get what you want out of it. Be completely unafraid to ask questions. I gave up trying to figure how to start a new document and just starting using their 8.5x11 template as the basis. lol What a fine start. What is the right Creative Commons license for "don't steal my book but you can make perphieals for it because lol I don't care"? Or, could I literally just saw that in the inside cover: "The author, My Name Here, gives explicit permission to any purchasers of this book to produce third party accessories to this game as long as the game and My Name Here is attributed"?
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Jul 13, 2017 02:54
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Kai Tave posted:All I'm saying is that it isn't really "further atomizing nerd culture" to make it clear when you say "yeah I like RPGs" whether you're talking about Final Fantasy, Skyrim, or D&D. There are people who want to say that certain board games (Descent, Mice & Mystics, etc.) are "RPGs", and feel they should be entitled to recommending them without caveat when someone asks for an RPG recommendation. I want to fistfight those people.
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Jul 13, 2017 03:21
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Scyther posted:There are people who want to say that certain board games (Descent, Mice & Mystics, etc.) are "RPGs", and feel they should be entitled to recommending them without caveat when someone asks for an RPG recommendation. I want to fistfight those people. 
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Jul 13, 2017 03:37
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Halloween Jack posted:Yeah, like 4e! I don't think we're talking about MMOs right now.
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Jul 13, 2017 04:12
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I should also mention that it's worth posting your KS draft(s) to the KS thread; I'd bet there are goons who could help you but don't read the industry thread as often.
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Jul 13, 2017 04:12
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Covok posted:I gave up trying to figure how to start a new document and just starting using their 8.5x11 template as the basis. lol What a fine start. Nothing wrong with that. Keep in mind, though, that depending on what you're doing with your game, a 6"x9" book might be better. Digest size can be more attractive if you're putting out less than 50k words, especially if it's a "core" book. (And then any further supplements should be the same size, because of course.) quote:What is the right Creative Commons license for "don't steal my book but you can make perphieals for it because lol I don't care"? Or, could I literally just saw that in the inside cover: "The author, My Name Here, gives explicit permission to any purchasers of this book to produce third party accessories to this game as long as the game and My Name Here is attributed"? Here's a basic rundown. It's super easy to include. For what you seem to want, I'd suggest Attribution ShareAlike (CC BY-SA), which allows people to create derivative commercial work, but they must distribute it under the same license. Just as an example, here's how Eclipse Phase did theirs:  This only allows non-commercial derivatives, but it's as easy as the above to include this or a similar license in your book.
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Jul 13, 2017 04:48
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The podcast group I'm in, Six Feats Under, just did an episode on how to run a kickstarter: http://www.sixfeatsunder.com/episode/kickstarter-podchat/ It's got me, 3 time kickstarter runner, and James D'Amato from One Shot RPG, so if you're looking for advice, hey. Give that a listen. That Old Tree posted:Nothing wrong with that. Keep in mind, though, that depending on what you're doing with your game, a 6"x9" book might be better. Digest size can be more attractive if you're putting out less than 50k words, especially if it's a "core" book. (And then any further supplements should be the same size, because of course.) Also, personally, I find 8.5x11 is an unwieldy size for a book. Just a bit too big. I've been using 6x9 for Fellowship, and its a great size for a book to be, I highly recommend it.
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Jul 13, 2017 05:05
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Note that all Creative Commons licenses, including the one Eclipse Phase uses, allow someone to distribute your work verbatim; that's why it's completely fine to "pirate" Eclipse Phase books. It would be difficult to properly word a license that lets you make derivative works without allowing direct copies, because it is technically a derivative work to take your book, search-replace "Mangaka" for "Weeaboo", and publish it; it would then be a derivative work for someone else to take that and change it back to "Mangaka". I believe this is why Apocalypse World doesn't have a license that explicitly allows derivative works, but if you email Vincent with what you have in mind he'll generally say "yeah cool". (Of course, if you're using any resource published with Sharealike CC license variant, you don't really have a choice.)
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Jul 13, 2017 05:50
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inklesspen posted:Note that all Creative Commons licenses, including the one Eclipse Phase uses, allow someone to distribute your work verbatim; that's why it's completely fine to "pirate" Eclipse Phase books. Then can I just do that? You feel me? Just put in a hey send me an email and it's cool by me? Do I have to email Vincent about this? I didn't think about that.
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Jul 13, 2017 06:01
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Nuns with Guns posted:This is a thread about tabletop rpgs in a forum about tabletop rpgs and board games, which in theory can cover literally any genre, storytelling technique, or culture. This thread spent four pages talking about fallout and batman vs superman a week ago. I get that anime as a fandom is insufferable and infested with the worst people but this is such a weird thing to give a poo poo about on the modern internet. Nah, lots of things irritate different people, and that's pretty normal. Nobody is flying into a rage, either. inklesspen posted:It would be difficult to properly word a license that lets you make derivative works without allowing direct copies, because it is technically a derivative work to take your book, search-replace "Mangaka" for "Weeaboo", and publish it; it would then be a derivative work for someone else to take that and change it back to "Mangaka". That is incorrect. The term "derivative work" has a very specific legal meaning. Wikipedia says "The transformation, modification or adaptation of the work must be substantial and bear its author's personality to be original and thus protected by copyright." The words "substantial" and "original" are critically important; you would definitely still be violating an ordinary copyright, and would not be creating a copyrightable derivitive work, if you simply did a search/replace for a single word. Furthermore, according to the USPTO: quote:The copyright in a derivative work covers only the additions, So, even if changing one word throughout another text were permitted - such as by a license permitting the creation of derivative works - the new authorial copyright would only extend to that single word in the new work. The owner of that new copyright would only be able to grant a follow-on license to modify that one word - the third person in the chain would have to alter only that one word throughout the text, and definitely could not create their own derivitive work by replacing the word back with the one in the original work: they would effectively be reproducing the original work. The USPTO, and courts, are not that stupid, and you cannot weasel your way around intellectual property laws with this sort of trickery. Consequently, it is not "trivial" to properly word a license that lets someone make derivative works without allowing direct copies: in fact, that happens all the time, and all of the creative commons licenses on this page that do not contain the words "NoDerivs" do exactly that! None of the Creative Commons licenses cause the copyright holder to lose their copyright: they are all licenses, that is, permission granted for others to use the work in some way, and only the NoDerivs ones forbid others from creating derivative works. Distribution is thus completely separate from creation of derivative works, and a license granting free distribution does not, on its own, create a defacto license to modify. The CreativeCommons "NoDerivs" license do exactly that: they grant permission to freely copy and distribute, while preventing someone from (legally) making modifications to the work (although of course no license can remove people's rights to fair use, which can include limited copying and modification for specific, protected purposes). Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 06:12
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Nuns with Guns posted:e- also someone make a football ttrpg It's weird that no one's ever made one, not even a terrible one in the 90s.
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Jul 13, 2017 07:29
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Fantasy football still counts as fantasy.
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Jul 13, 2017 07:34
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The traditional RPG model seems like a really weird choice for football, or any team sport. Meanwhile, I mean, Blood Bowl exists.
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Jul 13, 2017 07:34
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I rolled all 1s on my character sheet and got drafted to the Cleveland Browns
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Jul 13, 2017 07:37
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wait i take it back, run a sports team in Reign, it would totally work
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Jul 13, 2017 07:38
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there's a baseball trpg though. Payoff Pitch Baseball models the pitcher batter duel through percentile roll tables to represent hits and where they go.
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Jul 13, 2017 07:40
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I feel like there's a parallel universe where someone right now is saying,Tuxedo Catfish posted:The traditional RPG model seems like a really weird choice for magical combat, or any sort of fighting. and where their gamer zeitgeist revolves around various models of sports via dice and cards.
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Jul 13, 2017 07:56
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The traditional RPG model seems like a really weird choice for football, or any team sport. I made a one-shot RPG about a team going to the space olympics, though that's at least as much about trying to understand weird alien sports and doing backroom diplomacy as it is about the sports themselves. e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TICjEsvC8o
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Jul 13, 2017 08:23
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Leperflesh posted:Nah, lots of things irritate different people, and that's pretty normal. Nobody is flying into a rage, either. I don't disagree that the world is filled with petty people who get mad at the most inane things (which is why I joked about people flying into a rage at the most inane things), but you were way more than irritated because you went on a small tear comparing anime to autism despite your intimate secondhand contact with autistic people. Tuxedo Catfish posted:The traditional RPG model seems like a really weird choice for football, or any team sport. there wouldn't be much stopping you from having an rpg based around one other than finding a way to handle how most modern sports teams are significantly larger than a regular player group
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Jul 13, 2017 12:24
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