House-buying thread - Why is everyone involved in this process so deeply stupid?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > House-buying thread - Why is everyone involved in this process so deeply stupid?

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Tricky Ed: Aug 18, 2010; It is important to avoid confusion. This is the one that's okay to lick.

thekeeshman posted:

Who wants to talk me out of putting in an offer on a house that was built in 1925 and has been maintained but not updated since then? It's right at the limit of what we were planning on spending, but it seems to be perfectly inhabitable and has a newish roof.

Hello there, I just spent a year renovating a house that was built in 1927 as a hunting cabin. It was "inhabitable" in the sense that it didn't really leak much and was a contiguous set of walls. I thought it would take 3-4 months to update it. I got to that number by doubling the estimates I had for updating it.

It had a relatively new 200 Amp service and breaker box! 50% of the wiring was still knob and tube. All of it came out.
I was expecting dimensional 2x4 construction on 18" centers, since they overbuilt everything back then. Nope! 2x3s at 24" or more, wherever they felt like putting them. Essentially had to reframe every wall.
The floorboards were in great shape. Tongue and groove, crossnailed every 4", solid as hell, weren't going anywhere. The previous resident had let their animals piss all over them, ruining the wood, and it cost me thousands of dollars to remove those crossnailed floorboards.
The plumbing was all galvanized and was corroded to hell. All of it came out.
The windows were handmade. And warped, and single paned, and largely inoperable. All of them came out.
There was only siding, no sheathing. Essentially the house required us to remove the siding, put up sheathing, and then put new siding back on.
There was no insulation anywhere. Fortunately (heh) we were rebuilding all of the walls, so we could insulate it to modern standards.
The foundation felt solid, but was essentially piers sitting on rocks. It took a lot of concrete and a lot of work to fix it so it's secure.
Nothing was square or level. This made the kitchen and bathrooms interesting.
Its septic system was too small and had also failed completely. Required a complete decommission and new system installation.
It had a woodburning stove as its only heat source. It was sitting on a concrete pad that had been poured over the carpeting present at the time. It exited through an asbestos chimney. It was mounted too close to the wall. Dug it out and had to pay $money to get the asbestos hauled away before I could patch the hole in the living room ceiling and put in more modern heating. Had planned to go with a ductless heat pump so it could have AC too, but all the other budget holes precluded that.

Some of this we knew about going in and were prepared for. Some of it was a costly surprise. None of it could have been avoided with better planning. For instance, the inspector found romex in every outlet and box he could get to or see from the attic/crawlspace. This is because the last person to do electrical work cut back the knob and tube and connected it in hidden junctions to the romex so it would look like it had been modernized. No documentation of the work, no way to pursue any recourse.

I was fortunate enough to be able to cover the extra costs, but it was scary realizing that I didn't have any option but to finish the work. A mid-renovation home isn't going to sell for anything like what you paid for it, even if you've technically added value with what you've done.

tl;dr: Don't buy a fixer-upper at the upper end of your spending ability. Your renovation budget could easily double and you need to be able to handle that.

# ? Jul 13, 2017 08:28

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# ? May 30, 2024 03:53

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Tricky Ed posted:

This is because the last person to do electrical work cut back the knob and tube and connected it in hidden junctions to the romex so it would look like it had been modernized.

Some utter rear end in a top hat did this at my first house, it's so infuriating.

# ? Jul 13, 2017 10:19

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

Subjunctive posted:

Some utter rear end in a top hat did this at my first house, it's so infuriating.

I wonder if it was an electrician getting paid for a rewire and just doing the bare minimum to create the appearance of a rewire, or if it was a seller directing an electrician to create the appearance of a rewire

# ? Jul 13, 2017 12:35

Pryor on Fire: May 14, 2013; they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary

Tricky Ed posted:

It had a woodburning stove as its only heat source. It was sitting on a concrete pad that had been poured over the carpeting present at the time

This is possibly my favorite thing in this thread

# ? Jul 13, 2017 14:12

Dwight Eisenhower: Jan 24, 2006; Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.

QuarkJets posted:

I wonder if it was an electrician getting paid for a rewire and just doing the bare minimum to create the appearance of a rewire, or if it was a seller directing an electrician to create the appearance of a rewire

I wish this was short enough to be the thread title

# ? Jul 13, 2017 16:32

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

I doubt there was an electrician involved at all. That place had tons of DIY surprises.

# ? Jul 13, 2017 16:41

minivanmegafun: Jul 27, 2004

I bought an 1885 cottage but as far as I can tell the electrical work was done in the 40s. Everything is BX, but it's got some shaaaaady splices and other questionable stuff, it's all coming out as well.

# ? Jul 13, 2017 17:09

Neon Belly: Feb 12, 2008; I need something stronger.

Woof Blitzer posted:

Am I correct in the understanding that you can get a pre-approval letter for ~$ and then just look around for a property that fits the amount you can finance?

In some markets, a realtor won't even talk to you without a pre-approval letter for the exact budget you want.

# ? Jul 13, 2017 17:19

Ashcans: Jan 2, 2006; Let's do the space-time warp again!

Tricky Ed posted:

tl;dr: Don't buy a fixer-upper at the upper end of your spending ability. Your renovation budget could easily double and you need to be able to handle that.

Well, at least the roof was ok?

:stare:

# ? Jul 13, 2017 21:14

Twerk from Home: Jan 17, 2009; This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Does anybody here own a house with a 2 story garage apartment on the property? I've found myself owning a house in a housing market that's completely on fire, and my area has a bunch of 2-story garages of various types on the back of people's lots. Right now I have just a paved parking pad on the back of my lot, but it looks to me like I could build a pretty nice garage apartment and then rent it out for more than 10% annual return on investment for the incremental cost of building the garage apartment, given that I already own the house and lot.

# ? Jul 15, 2017 03:56

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

How are all of these on-fire houses getting sold? Are people just buying the land on the cheap and clearing away the rubble after the flames die down, or are they like... marshmallow enthusiasts?

# ? Jul 15, 2017 04:20

Tricky Ed: Aug 18, 2010; It is important to avoid confusion. This is the one that's okay to lick.

Pryor on Fire posted:

This is possibly my favorite thing in this thread

Subjunctive posted:

I doubt there was an electrician involved at all. That place had tons of DIY surprises.

Likewise. There was obviously some malice involved because it was hidden, but mostly I suspect the previous owner was a terrible person who cared about nothing but money.

# ? Jul 15, 2017 07:13

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

House-buying thread - the previous owner was a terrible person who cared about nothing but money

# ? Jul 15, 2017 07:27

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

Twerk from Home posted:

Does anybody here own a house with a 2 story garage apartment on the property? I've found myself owning a house in a housing market that's completely on fire, and my area has a bunch of 2-story garages of various types on the back of people's lots. Right now I have just a paved parking pad on the back of my lot, but it looks to me like I could build a pretty nice garage apartment and then rent it out for more than 10% annual return on investment for the incremental cost of building the garage apartment, given that I already own the house and lot.

Having a back house is my dream. We have friends who use them for rec rooms now that they've had kids, and when the kids go off to college they will go back to being rentals. Construction is dead simple, just insulate it and make sure there are smoke and monoxide detectors in it. Run the apartment off a subpanel.

# ? Jul 15, 2017 18:00

Spermy Smurf: Jul 2, 2004

How do you get water and power out there if the pad is already poured? Jack out a small section and put in drainage, power, and water and then repour?

# ? Jul 15, 2017 18:16

LogisticEarth: Mar 28, 2004; Someone once told me, "Time is a flat circle".

Spermy Smurf posted:

How do you get water and power out there if the pad is already poured? Jack out a small section and put in drainage, power, and water and then repour?

Power is dead simple to bring in from overhead. Water would probably need to be trenched and jacked in.

But I think he just has a simple paved parking pad, not a slab that would be suitable for a two story structure. I'm assuming he's going to remove whatever is there and start over.

# ? Jul 15, 2017 18:28

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

Spermy Smurf posted:

How do you get water and power out there if the pad is already poured? Jack out a small section and put in drainage, power, and water and then repour?

Money or sweat, choose. You can get a trench dug very cheaply, jacking out the concrete is a bit harder, but if you're smart you can probably get around actually putting drains into the concrete. When you have the trench open run power, water, and ethernet.

# ? Jul 15, 2017 19:36

Spermy Smurf: Jul 2, 2004

LogisticEarth posted:

Power is dead simple to bring in from overhead.

Eeeew overhead power going to your backyard? Trench that poo poo.

Didn't realize it said paved parking space. My mistake.

# ? Jul 15, 2017 22:13

Snowy: Oct 6, 2010; A man whose blood
Is very snow-broth;
One who never feels
The wanton stings and
Motions of the sense

This is a house selling question but I didn't see a more appropriate thread, so here goes:

I'm helping a friend sell her place but she's extremely cautious and afraid the realtor's contract is going to scam her. From everything I can see the contract is completely standard.

The line she's worried about is "in the event that you become legally entitled to retain any deposit paid to you by a person introduced to you during the term of this agreement, pursuant to a signed contract of sale, we will be entitled to 10% of said retained deposit"

I don't think that's going to apply to her at all but she doesn't trust the realtor and wants someone else to explain it. My googling is failing, does anyone know what that clause means?

If there's a better thread I'd love to be pointed in the right direction.

# ? Jul 17, 2017 01:11

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

Tell her to talk to a real estate attorney, this is why real estate attorneys exist

# ? Jul 17, 2017 01:13

Snowy: Oct 6, 2010; A man whose blood
Is very snow-broth;
One who never feels
The wanton stings and
Motions of the sense

Thanks yeah that's the smart thing to do, she's just broke until her place sells and trying to avoid lawyer fees until the closing.

# ? Jul 17, 2017 01:25

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

I had a similar clause in my contract (at 7.5% IIRC), and the explanation was that it was for a buyer breaking the P&S and forfeiting their deposit. Without that clause, the agent wouldn't get anything because there was no sale.

# ? Jul 17, 2017 01:27

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Subjunctive posted:

I had a similar clause in my contract (at 7.5% IIRC), and the explanation was that it was for a buyer breaking the P&S and forfeiting their deposit. Without that clause, the agent wouldn't get anything because there was no sale.

IANAREA, but yes, at least in my state, this would be the scenario outlined. If the buyer forfeits the deposit, the agent contract usually allows for the agent to get some of that deposit, too- not 100% to the sellers.

# ? Jul 17, 2017 01:38

Snowy: Oct 6, 2010; A man whose blood
Is very snow-broth;
One who never feels
The wanton stings and
Motions of the sense

That makes sense thank you very much

# ? Jul 17, 2017 01:42

Twerk from Home: Jan 17, 2009; This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Spermy Smurf posted:

Eeeew overhead power going to your backyard? Trench that poo poo.

Didn't realize it said paved parking space. My mistake.

My power already comes in overhead from the back. Fiber internet too!

The back house would get overhead utilities just like the main house.

Edit: Yeah, my current parking pad is concrete, but it's nowhere near a foundation appropriate to build something on. Think more like driveway or sidewalk. The whole thing would have to go, but this build wouldn't cheap anyway. I still think a garage apartment would be worth it over just building a detatched garage.

Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jul 17, 2017

# ? Jul 17, 2017 01:52

Arkane: Dec 19, 2006; by R. Guyovich

Realtor is selling her own house.

I'm not signed with a realtor, have visited the house twice, love the house, and have done a fairly rigorous analysis of comps in the neighborhood and know exactly what I want to pay (more precisely, what the house is worth).

What's the play here for contacting her directly, bidding with her, and trying to get the 3% off that she would otherwise pay to the buyer's agent? Do you think she would be amenable? How would the formalized bidding actually take place, with contingencies, etc. I've bought homes before, but with agents.

# ? Jul 17, 2017 02:21

halokiller: Dec 28, 2008; Sisters Are Doin' It For Themselves

Just got my pre-approval letter. One of my hard requirements is a fiber line to the house. So it basically boiled down my choices to either lovely quality townhomes near downtown or master-planned communities that may as well be in another town with how far the commutes are (and the main access road is a freakin' toll road :argh:

). Luckily I found one neighborhood that I really like and focusing it there.

# ? Jul 17, 2017 13:19

AntennaGeek: May 30, 2011

I openly commented to my wife that I thought our basement would benefit from another floor drain.

Thanks to an absurd amount of rainfall and an undersized combined storm/sanitary sewer in my neighborhood, I discovered that we already had another floor drain... under the carpet in the half-finished basement. 4.5" of water later, I'm having a great morning.

# ? Jul 17, 2017 13:56

On Terra Firma: Feb 12, 2008

Snowy posted:

This is a house selling question but I didn't see a more appropriate thread, so here goes:

I'm helping a friend sell her place but she's extremely cautious and afraid the realtor's contract is going to scam her. From everything I can see the contract is completely standard.

The line she's worried about is "in the event that you become legally entitled to retain any deposit paid to you by a person introduced to you during the term of this agreement, pursuant to a signed contract of sale, we will be entitled to 10% of said retained deposit"

I don't think that's going to apply to her at all but she doesn't trust the realtor and wants someone else to explain it. My googling is failing, does anyone know what that clause means?

If there's a better thread I'd love to be pointed in the right direction.

I dunno how it is elsewhere but in my office we give it all back because we're not petty as gently caress.

# ? Jul 17, 2017 15:58

On Terra Firma: Feb 12, 2008

Arkane posted:

Realtor is selling her own house.

I'm not signed with a realtor, have visited the house twice, love the house, and have done a fairly rigorous analysis of comps in the neighborhood and know exactly what I want to pay (more precisely, what the house is worth).

What's the play here for contacting her directly, bidding with her, and trying to get the 3% off that she would otherwise pay to the buyer's agent? Do you think she would be amenable? How would the formalized bidding actually take place, with contingencies, etc. I've bought homes before, but with agents.

You'd be sending her a purchase agreement that's similar to what the local MLS uses. Not sure if you'd have access to it but most of what you'd need is spelled out in there. You also want a real estate attorney ready to answer any questions you might have, but the agent will probably find a way to get more money out of you and most likely won't want to deal with you if it's an option because of the chances something may fall through without an agent on the other end of things.

You'll also need some type of letter from a lender or proof of funds available to make the deal happen. I know you were against that earlier in the thread so I'm not sure if that's changed. Just don't be surprised if they don't want to deal with you if you don't have that and for the reasons above.

# ? Jul 17, 2017 16:06

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

Arkane posted:

Realtor is selling her own house.

I'm not signed with a realtor, have visited the house twice, love the house, and have done a fairly rigorous analysis of comps in the neighborhood and know exactly what I want to pay (more precisely, what the house is worth).

What's the play here for contacting her directly, bidding with her, and trying to get the 3% off that she would otherwise pay to the buyer's agent? Do you think she would be amenable? How would the formalized bidding actually take place, with contingencies, etc. I've bought homes before, but with agents.

Hire a real estate attorney, tell them your plan, judge their reaction. Try doing it while they are taking a sip of a drink. What you're proposing is completely doable just uncommon. As a seller I wouldn't deal with you without someone who knows the process on the other end. The realtor should be willing to at least split the commission with you, netting you 1-2% after attorney fees.

You should bring a bank statement with you showing the cash on hand. Your real estate attorney will help you with that.

# ? Jul 17, 2017 17:28

Arkane: Dec 19, 2006; by R. Guyovich

On Terra Firma posted:

You'd be sending her a purchase agreement that's similar to what the local MLS uses. Not sure if you'd have access to it but most of what you'd need is spelled out in there. You also want a real estate attorney ready to answer any questions you might have, but the agent will probably find a way to get more money out of you and most likely won't want to deal with you if it's an option because of the chances something may fall through without an agent on the other end of things.

You'll also need some type of letter from a lender or proof of funds available to make the deal happen. I know you were against that earlier in the thread so I'm not sure if that's changed. Just don't be surprised if they don't want to deal with you if you don't have that and for the reasons above.

Have the letter from lender as we're planning on bidding now....proof of funds can be done easily enough. I think hiring an attorney is the way to go here to make sure I have some representation.

But....I can essentially finance the buyer's agents fees as it would be built into the mortgage (and would be getting a rebate in cash through Redfin), but can't finance the attorney fees. That is something to mull over.

H110Hawk posted:

Hire a real estate attorney, tell them your plan, judge their reaction. Try doing it while they are taking a sip of a drink. What you're proposing is completely doable just uncommon. As a seller I wouldn't deal with you without someone who knows the process on the other end. The realtor should be willing to at least split the commission with you, netting you 1-2% after attorney fees.

You should bring a bank statement with you showing the cash on hand. Your real estate attorney will help you with that.

Why would there be any commission at all in this hypothetical transaction? She is selling her own house, and she owns the realty company. Seems kinda silly to take taxable income out instead of non-taxable capital gains...?

# ? Jul 17, 2017 17:53

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

Arkane posted:

Why would there be any commission at all in this hypothetical transaction? She is selling her own house, and she owns the realty company. Seems kinda silly to take taxable income out instead of non-taxable capital gains...?

There wouldn't be, but the bar is set around 5-6%. Split that and it's what I would anticipate you seeing as the discount on the sale price.

# ? Jul 17, 2017 18:38

Ixian: Oct 9, 2001; Many machines on Ix....new machines; Pillbug

On Terra Firma posted:

I dunno how it is elsewhere but in my office we give it all back because we're not petty as gently caress.

Seriously. I've had a couple buyers back out over the years and the earnest money was just compensation to the seller (me) for taking the house off the market for weeks/month, having to re-show it, etc. Any realtor tried to put that they deserved a percentage of that (and with earnest money, we're talking a fairly small amount, so this is indeed petty as gently caress) in a contract with me would get told to go gently caress themselves. Whether it is legal is one thing, whether you should put up with that nonsense is another.

# ? Jul 17, 2017 23:28

Arkane: Dec 19, 2006; by R. Guyovich

Only quasi house buying related, but Zillow has a new Instant Offer feature (in some markets). I just submitted my house to see what investors will offer. Will report back!

# ? Jul 18, 2017 23:22

Higgy: Jul 6, 2005; Grimey Drawer

Arkane posted:

Only quasi house buying related, but Zillow has a new Instant Offer feature (in some markets). I just submitted my house to see what investors will offer. Will report back!

If it's got zillow's name attached to it you can assume it's dogshit and pretty inaccurate, in my experience.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 00:26

On Terra Firma: Feb 12, 2008

Higgy posted:

If it's got zillow's name attached to it you can assume it's dogshit and pretty inaccurate, in my experience.

This is very true.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 00:30

DR FRASIER KRANG: Feb 4, 2005; "Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?

Zillow thinks my house is worth $250k more than the one down the street that is literally actually for sale right now. Zillow is dog poo poo.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 03:43

Higgy: Jul 6, 2005; Grimey Drawer

HEY NONG MAN posted:

Zillow thinks my house is worth $250k more than the one down the street that is literally actually for sale right now. Zillow is dog poo poo.

Apparently my house has appreciated by $100K in 2 years. No I'm not in SF or DC or NYC. I wouldn't trust Zillow for anything other than driving a few eyeballs to my For Sale house.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 03:46

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# ? May 30, 2024 03:53

DR FRASIER KRANG: Feb 4, 2005; "Are you forgetting that just this afternoon I was punched in the face by a turtle now dead?

My favorite part of their database of home prices is how the Zestimate magically lines back up with the sale price after it goes on the market.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 04:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > House-buying thread - Why is everyone involved in this process so deeply stupid?

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