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TheManSeries posted:So I'm researching into Gundam production information for something I want to write. Are there any good articles that verify that Turn A Gundam was a financial failure and almost killed Gundam. I know that SEED is known for being such a success in the Japanese market that it revitalized the franchise, but I want to verify both of those instead of relying on poo poo spread on /m/ You might try to contact Mark Simmons and see what he knows. At the least I suspect he could point you in the right direction. http://ultimatemark.com/info/
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Jul 11, 2017 02:01
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A more Turn-A specific analysis: -Bandai's media area lost roughly 5 million dollars in the year Turn A aired, so we have to figure out how much of that is related to Turn A itself. -Bandai media that year was composed of Sunrise, Bandai Visual, Bandai Entertainment, and Bandai Music Entertainment. -Bandai Visual and Bandai Entertainment are mostly licensing, sales, and distribution, so going out on a limb I will assume they didn't gain or lose massive amounts of money. -Sunrise made something like a dozen shows/films/OVAs in the year Turn A aired; I culled this list down to a few bigger productions/full series: Betterman (26 ep), Turn A Gundam (50 ep), Seraphim Call (12 ep), The Big O (12 ep), Infinite Ryvius (26 ep). Assuming 100k per episode in 1999 dollars, that's 2.5 mil, 5 mil, 1.25 mil, 1.25 mil, 2.5 mil. We know Big O did badly enough that its original run of 24 episodes got halved, so we can assume some losses there. I have no concrete information on how the others did, but to the best of my knowledge none were breakout successes or disasters, and assuming they more or less averaged out, there is room there for Turn A (at an estimated budget of 5 mil) to have lost most but not all of its production budget and been responsible for the balance of that 5 million dollar loss in Bandai Media, which is the kind of disaster I believe most people are thinking of when they talk about a franchise-killing level of failure. -But the big culprit is Bandai Music Entertainment. It was doing so badly the year Turn A aired that the next year Bandai had liquidated the entire business, which by their own words resulted in a "dramatic turn around in operating income"; Bandai is clearly pointing to this as the major reason for that 5 million dollar loss. They could be lying so that their investors don't freak out about their big piggybank franchise being a disaster, but even so I don't think they would liquidate an entire group for that reason alone. So, assuming average numbers for all the places where we don't have any data, and assuming Bandai itself are giving us a more or less truthful accounting, there does not appear to be much room in the numbers for Turn A to have been a disaster considering its estimated budget (plus marketing on top); Bandai media would have had to show much greater losses for that to be a reality. It's possible the rumors started because someone saw how much money Bandai media lost that year and connected it to the controversial Turn A rather than Bandai Music. The more amusing theory is that it really did do horrible, but Bandai protected the franchise, Sunrise, and Tomino from displeased shareholders by tacking the blame on another ship that was already sinking; stranger things have happened in the corporate world.
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Jul 11, 2017 03:06
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Midjack posted:You might try to contact Mark Simmons and see what he knows. At the least I suspect he could point you in the right direction. Thank you for giving me this. Hopefully he's cool answering questions for an article that may or may not be published.
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Jul 11, 2017 04:48
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Wait a minute, is the new Versus game getting an actual release in the states? Or is it another english version import like SRW and GB3?
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Jul 11, 2017 12:20
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Kingtheninja posted:Wait a minute, is the new Versus game getting an actual release in the states? Or is it another english version import like SRW and GB3? Yes, actual US release.
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Jul 11, 2017 12:29
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Dropping September 29th to be exact.
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Jul 11, 2017 15:14
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Jesus Yamato wept.
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Jul 12, 2017 15:20
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Also, it's at EVO (the Anime EVO side) this weekend https://twitter.com/Anime_EVO/status/884519729574039552 https://twitter.com/BandaiNamcoUS/status/884849819117690881
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Jul 12, 2017 22:16
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The life size Unicorn is gonna be able to switch between green and red psyco-frame
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Jul 13, 2017 13:00
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Can it switch to being from a good series?
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Jul 13, 2017 15:49
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Can it switch to having a good villain and protagonist?
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Jul 13, 2017 15:53
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Waffleman_ posted:Can it switch to being from a good series? Gundam Unicorn was good. I wonder if they'll do like the Empire State Building and light it up different colors for holidays.
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Jul 13, 2017 16:26
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Arcsquad12 posted:Can it switch to having a good villain and protagonist? You didn't like Full Frontal?
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Jul 13, 2017 16:28
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Pureauthor posted:You didn't like Full Frontal? Not really. The idea of a man giving up his identity to become a symbol is interesting, but it doesn't stop him from being a boring antagonist compared to someone as hosed in the head as Char was. The secondary cast and antagonists are really good though. The stuff with Banagher and Frontal is a waste of ideological sparring time when you have stuff like the last stand of the Zeon remnants, the Sleeves followers and how they look up to Frontal, or the backstabbing going on with the Marcenas and Vist families. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 16:42
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Guy Goodbody posted:Gundam Unicorn was good. I am willing to admit my opinion is colored by me watching Re:0096, but also it was so bad that I have literally no desire to watch the actual OVA series.
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Jul 13, 2017 20:54
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What was it like watching ten minutes of footage sandwiched between recaps and previews?
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Jul 13, 2017 20:58
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the unicorn ova's are alright but that's about it. very nice looking tho
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Jul 13, 2017 20:59
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Arcsquad12 posted:What was it like watching ten minutes of footage sandwiched between recaps and previews? I legitimately stopped watching like a third of the way in.
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Jul 13, 2017 21:04
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Guy Goodbody posted:Gundam Unicorn was good. Wronger words have never been spoken.
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Jul 13, 2017 21:09
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Controversial opinion: There were more good Gundam OVAs made after 1999 than before.
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Jul 13, 2017 22:06
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Gundam Unicorn is mostly good with a mediocre ending and a bad protagonist. RE 96 is trash.
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Jul 13, 2017 22:11
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The only cool thing about full frontal was that Ikeda was voicing him and the Sinanju is probably one of the best antagonist suits ever made.
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Jul 13, 2017 22:17
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Raxivace posted:Controversial opinion: There were more good Gundam OVAs made after 1999 than before. Is this counting online short series as well? Because I'll admit I like Stargazer better than what I've seen of 8th. (That said, nothing's matched up to good old 0080)
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Jul 13, 2017 22:42
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https://twitter.com/Oishimodeler/status/885297026446917634 poo poo like this is so loving tight and almost tempts me to put in the time/effort to become good at Gunpla.
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Jul 13, 2017 22:47
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Guy Goodbody posted:It was three years between X and Turn A, with only Endless Waltz between them. That is shocking only when considering the last few shows (Victory through to X) but fairly normal when looking at Gundam overall. There were 5 years between 0079 and Zeta (1979 to 1985), though Zeta lead immediately in to ZZ and then another 4 years between the end of ZZ and the release of F91 as a movie (1987 and 1991), though it was originally envisioned as a possible TV show. The next actual TV animation was another 2 years (1993), meaning there was 6 years between TV entries at the time. After Turn-A there was another 2 years before SEED (2000 to 2002), another year till Destiny (2003 to 2004) and another 2 till Gundam 00 (2005 till 2007) while there was a gap of a two years between Gundam 00 and Gundam Age (2009 to 2011) despite 00 being seen as a success. The gaps since then have been fairly small, often only 6 months but historically 2 to 3 years is pretty normal on average. Guy Goodbody posted:dang, I'd forgotten how long that show took. But still, the Gundam Rut explanation for why X failed makes sense, because it came at the end of an unprecedented back to back to back to back run of Gundam shows. Personally, I think that Gundam X not being very good was at least as big of a factor. But Gundam had been off the air for three years before Turn A started. I don't buy the explanation personally. Sure, it was unprecedented for Gundam to have several shows on air in a row, but there were several other toy heavy franchises that had them without any such fatigue; Super Sentai especially, which was running for something like 30 years before it began to falter. Kamen Rider, Yuusha and probably at least a few others ran for longer without any such fatigue too. I don't doubt that franchise fatigue played some part in events, but I don't buy that it was solely, or even mainly responsible personally when other franchise go longer without issue. The fact that ratings for X were fairly average for the period until it was shifted to an earlier, and much more notoriously difficult timeslot doesn't help in painting fatigue as a minor cause for it's cancellation. The fact that the Gundam designs in show were pretty similar to those in G and Wing seems more likely to be a problem to me, and together with the fact X designs get so little love in Gunpla, even compared to those in G or Wing seems to indicate those as the source of the issue. I would personally posit that continually low model sales despite efforts to revamp them prompted a move to a weaker time slot, a move that killed the ratings and signed the show's death warrant. Guy Goodbody posted:The life size Unicorn is gonna be able to switch between green and red psyco-frame Not really a surprise. Even with old light bulbs it'd just mean installing two in each place, but newer ones (LED based I assume) can just switch colors to any hue with a simple piece of code. Still, it'd be cool to see in action. I remember vaguely hoping the explanation for the psycoframe switching colors in the narrative would just be an anti-climactic "we ran out of red bulbs and only had some green ones to hand". Guy Goodbody posted:Gundam Unicorn was good. It's actually kind of rare to see someone espouse that opinion here, though I agree personally and while I think Char's Counterattack has by far the stronger and more memorable finale, I still prefer Unicorn overall for instance (I compare since those two are often held against each other). 0080 and Stargazer are probably the only other Gundam OVAs I even like, though to be fair I haven't actually seen several ones like MS Igloo and Thunderbolt. I also just don't really like Char's Counterattack conceptually, since I think Zeta makes for a stronger, more interesting and relatable climax to Amuro and Char's relationship, with both trying to work through their past and becoming begrudging allies of circumstance, even friendly but never able to entirely overcome what happened to them even if they recognize it was just a consequence of war. tsob fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 22:49
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You know, it's come up before, and it almost feels unfair when I've only gotten 2 episodes in, but I really wasn't impressed with 08th. I mean, I'd heard the grit was only surface deep, but it barely had that. I mean, military disciple seems tighter on Turn A. The whole "Mechs need upkeep" thing is more prominent on IBO as well. There, the Gundam gets fueled up for a scrap, trashes the hostiles, and then trundles back to Tekkadan's current field HQ because fuel, ammo, and armor all need some attention after even if you're a one man army. In 08th, you can just stop in the middle of a forest to go swimming.
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Jul 14, 2017 00:10
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The first couple episodes of 08th aren't that great to be honest. The first one has the good Ball vs Zaku fight, but then gets pretty slow, and the second one really makes Shiro an unlikable rear end in a top hat for rushing off into combat like a glory hound and pointless teenager tits. The show is less about grit and more about idealism versus harsh reality. The best episode comes after the worst one (hot springs on everest ffs), where Shiro finally has to come to grips with the fact that he cannot solve all his problems with pacifism and some people can't be reasoned with.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jul 14, 2017 |
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Jul 14, 2017 00:15
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tsob posted:That is shocking only when considering the last few shows (Victory through to X) but fairly normal when looking at Gundam overall. There were 5 years between 0079 and Zeta (1979 to 1985), though Zeta lead immediately in to ZZ and then another 4 years between the end of ZZ and the release of F91 as a movie (1987 and 1991), though it was originally envisioned as a possible TV show. The next actual TV animation was another 2 years (1993), meaning there was 6 years between TV entries at the time. After Turn-A there was another 2 years before SEED (2000 to 2002), another year till Destiny (2003 to 2004) and another 2 till Gundam 00 (2005 till 2007) while there was a gap of a two years between Gundam 00 and Gundam Age (2009 to 2011) despite 00 being seen as a success. The gaps since then have been fairly small, often only 6 months but historically 2 to 3 years is pretty normal on average. Yeah, I was just pointing out that the idea that Turn A Gundam was a failure because Gundam was over-exposed doesn't make sense. And I really doubt that explanation for Gundam X's failure too. X was the most difficult Gundam series to watch for me, it was just so loving dull. I was going to make a joke about the fights in X being boring, but I literally don't remember a single fight in the entire show. I know that the main good good guy suit had a final attack that was to stand in one place and fire a screen-filling laser. And the main bad guy suit had a final attack that was to stand in one place and fire a screen-filling laser. But beyond that the actual fights in X were so uninteresting I can't remember them at all. I like a lot of the characters in Gundam X. And I liked the thing about the moon Newtype and the message about that. But the animation and direction in Gundam X are so lifeless and dull it's just not fun to watch
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Jul 14, 2017 00:27
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Can we talk about protagonists? I've wanted to explain why I dislike Banagher and I've realized that, for myself at least, it has to do with the difference between an active and passive protagonist. Active ones push the plot with their actions, while passive ones have the plot happen to them. Banagher starts off looking like he'll be an active protagonist when he first spies Mineva and leaps into action, but from thereon he loses his agency as Mineva pushes him aside to deal with Vist, and then Banagher gets shoved into the Unicorn and told where to go and what to do for the next four episodes. It's only after accidentally killing the sleeves pilot and listening to Daguza and Zinnerman's life lessons does Banagher finally break out of his helplessness and make a choice to engage the zeon remnants and start fighting for his beliefs. He does become a better lead in episodes 5 and 6, before 7 shits the bed, but I only started to empathize with him after he nutted up and stopped letting other people make decisions for him. Using this comparison of active and passive leads, compare Banagher to Kamille or Judau and you'll see immediately why these two are more engaging. Kamille throws off authority at every turn and pretty much goes on a self made rampage from the first episode. You immediately get a sense of his independence and his personal drive, and the plot is forged by his actions. Even Amuro, who gets pretty whiny at times, still made an active choice to start up the Gundam and defend the colony. He wasn't strapped in at the last second by his dad and then imprinted on the machine with a predetermined destiny. The same can be said about the ova protagonists as well. Shiro and Burnie have something to prove and chase after their goals, while Kou struggles with his inferiority complex and makes really awful decisions. Kou is still more active than Banagher, but he's also a colossal idiot. But at least he makes his own choices rather than have somebody tell him what to do.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:37
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Al is the primary protagonist of 0080, not Bernie.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:40
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tsob posted:Al is the primary protagonist of 0080, not Bernie. True, but I see them as deuteragonists since their relationship is the driving force of the plot. Even then, Al himself fits into the same mould by seeking out the crashed zaku and forcing himself into the story.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:51
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Passive protagonists can be cool because when they finally do something of their own accord it gives that moment more weight. It's very much a case by case sorta deal, I don't find active protagonists inherently more compelling.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:59
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Anyway, Thunderbolt 8 is up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SKo7Lxy4x8
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Jul 14, 2017 20:02
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Also true, but a passive protagonist needs to be interesting to be engaging and I don't find that in banagher. He's very much an audience surrogate since most of his scenes prior to episode 4 are people dumping exposition on him. When he finally does act it's refreshing and he keeps it up for the next two hours of showtime which is nice.
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Jul 14, 2017 20:03
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chiasaur11 posted:Is this counting online short series as well? 08th MS Team has never really worked for me tbh.
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Jul 14, 2017 20:04
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08th is better than Stardust but way worse than 0080 which puts it at like a 6.5 out of 10. It's got pretty animation, some decent ideas(a protagonist who finds humanity in the enemy and wants to be a pacifist but his own failings and the demands of reality prevent him from always living up to that ideal), and an okay main plot but it's got a lot of dumb cruft like the aforementioned teenager boobs and some really eh fight choreography. I think it's worth a watch but it's not going to change anyone's life.
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Jul 14, 2017 21:15
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Darth Walrus posted:Anyway, Thunderbolt 8 is up: solid episode and the music is still good daryl you need better friends
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Jul 14, 2017 21:22
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these new thunderbolt episodes are suppose to take place shortly after the OYW, in 0081 or something right?
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Jul 14, 2017 21:48
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Most protagonist, if they're good, you can imagine outside the boundaries of their own plots. They've got stuff to do, goals, tastes, etc. They've got a personality. Banagher has none of that. He does not exist outside his own plot.
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Jul 14, 2017 21:54
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Kuvo posted:these new thunderbolt episodes are suppose to take place shortly after the OYW, in 0081 or something right? Pretty much, yeah. After the One Year War, but before the Titans would be brought in for poo poo like this.
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Jul 14, 2017 23:34
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