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Serious question, is this whole Don Jr meeting with a russian civilian lawyer legally prosecutable as or in any way "Treason"? Just from watching Colbert every night, if you made a drinking game of the word you would become a serious alcoholic.
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Jul 14, 2017 13:37
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Wickerman posted:Question about motion for discovery and when it's appropriate to do so. I know that it's appropriate before a criminal trial, but what about after a trial when motioning to seal a dismissal/conviction, but with different representation than what was had during the trial? I thought you were a lawyer.
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Jul 14, 2017 14:18
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Poppyseed Poundcake posted:Serious question, is this whole Don Jr meeting with a russian civilian lawyer legally prosecutable as or in any way "Treason"? Just from watching Colbert every night, if you made a drinking game of the word you would become a serious alcoholic. Legally prosecutable is an open question, but if Don Jr. is having to hope for a first amendment unconstitutionality finding he's not in a good starting place. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/interview-with-robert-bauer-about-donald-trump-jr-s-emails.html http://billmoyers.com/story/violating-certain-campaign-finance-laws-criminal-offenses/ http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/07/donald_trump_jr_s_free_speech_defense_is_as_bogus_as_it_sounds.html This isn't treason by the US Constitutional definition, which is an incredibly high standard: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court." But in the less technical definition, from e.g. Merriam-Webster: "2: the betrayal of a trust : treachery" Could be.
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Jul 14, 2017 14:41
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Poppyseed Poundcake posted:Serious question, is this whole Don Jr meeting with a russian civilian lawyer legally prosecutable as or in any way "Treason"? Just from watching Colbert every night, if you made a drinking game of the word you would become a serious alcoholic. No, not in any way. The law against treason is at 18 USC 2381 What's not here is an "enemy" and no evidence of specific treasonous intent. The founding fathers specifically and intentionally limited the definition of treason because the British often pulled the same "everything I don't like is treason" bullcrap on its people. It you're using 'treason' colloquially and not legally, you can use Merriam-Webster, or whatever definition you want, but don't conflate it with treason as a legal concept. Accepting campaign donations from foreign nationals? Maybe, given additional evidence. Soliciting donations from foreign nationals? Maybe, given additional evidence.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:05
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I love that treason is punishable by death, or, maybe for those little treasons, 5 years in prison and $10,000
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Jul 14, 2017 20:33
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Poppyseed Poundcake posted:Serious question, is this whole Don Jr meeting with a russian civilian lawyer legally prosecutable as or in any way "Treason"? Just from watching Colbert every night, if you made a drinking game of the word you would become a serious alcoholic. Foreign agents seeking to disrupt our election process, the very core of our democracy, are by definition enemies of the United States, and by cooperating with them DTJ gave them aid. Bing bing bong treason. You just need the right judge and I say we stack the courts until we get one.
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Jul 14, 2017 20:51
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Modus Pwnens posted:You just need the right judge and I say we stack the courts until we get one. This line of thinking can only end well.
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Jul 14, 2017 21:05
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Javid posted:This line of thinking can only end well. We're already over the precipice.
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Jul 14, 2017 21:44
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Modus Pwnens posted:Foreign agents seeking to disrupt our election process, the very core of our democracy, are by definition enemies of the United States, and by cooperating with them DTJ gave them aid. Bing bing bong treason. But I was under the impression that it can't be treason unless we at war with the other party? Unless they rewrite the law and retroactively apply it to his previous actions?
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Jul 14, 2017 22:16
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Poppyseed Poundcake posted:But I was under the impression that it can't be treason unless we at war with the other party? Unless they rewrite the law and retroactively apply it to his previous actions? John Brown was executed for Treason if I recall correctly, and we weren't at war with abolitionists. Edit: it looks like it was Treason against the State of Virginia, which is different I guess. William Bruce Mumford was executed for Treason for tearing down an American flag during the Civil War. I don't think we actually ever declared war, as we didn't recognize the existence of a legitimate Confederate nation, just states under the temporary and illegitimate administrative control of rebels. Dr. Arbitrary fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jul 14, 2017 |
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Jul 14, 2017 22:21
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Phil Moscowitz posted:I love that treason is punishable by death, or, maybe for those little treasons, 5 years in prison and $10,000 
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Jul 14, 2017 22:28
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:I thought you were a lawyer. Nope, I am half of an MD though. I think awhile back I made a joke about Valaprasio that I guess might have given off that idea.
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Jul 14, 2017 22:55
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Poppyseed Poundcake posted:But I was under the impression that it can't be treason unless we at war with the other party? Unless they rewrite the law and retroactively apply it to his previous actions? Didn't they killed the rosenburgs or whatever that sold nuke secrets to the commies?
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Jul 14, 2017 23:20
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Poppyseed Poundcake posted:But I was under the impression that it can't be treason unless we at war with the other party? Unless they rewrite the law and retroactively apply it to his previous actions? The law refers to "[The United States'] enemies."
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Jul 14, 2017 23:30
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xxEightxx posted:Didn't they killed the rosenburgs or whatever that sold nuke secrets to the commies? They were the last prisoners to be electrocuted on old sparky for treason in Sing Sing prison.
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Jul 14, 2017 23:34
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exploded mummy posted:They were the last prisoners to be electrocuted on old sparky for treason in Sing Sing prison. The Rosenbergs were convicted of espionage, not treason. Eddie Mays was the last person executed in Sing sing's old sparky, a decade after the Rosenbergs.
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Jul 14, 2017 23:51
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Phil Moscowitz posted:I love that treason is punishable by death, or, maybe for those little treasons, 5 years in prison and $10,000 Like if you planned to overthrow the government of Georgia, but through a Three's Company-esque series of goofs you accidentally invaded the state instead of the country. "Guess we're having peaches instead of borscht tonight!" *Laugh Track*
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Jul 14, 2017 23:52
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GamingHyena posted:Like if you planned to overthrow the government of Georgia, but through a Three's Company-esque series of goofs you accidentally invaded the state instead of the country. That's So Sherman pilot episode.
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Jul 14, 2017 23:55
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Wickerman posted:Nope, I am half of an MD though. I think awhile back I made a joke about Valaprasio that I guess might have given off that idea. I might just recognize your av from the goon doctor then and thought you were our kind of professional, not the bad kind.
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Jul 15, 2017 00:36
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:I might just recognize your av from the goon doctor then and thought you were our kind of professional, not the bad kind. If I go get a JD when I'm finished can we be friends???
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Jul 15, 2017 05:13
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:You don't have enough details for us to tell if you have a legitimate concern or of you're crazy. I'll talk to my parents and get the more detailed story. We've been having trouble getting in contact with our lawyer recently, and some outside expertise from this thread might be helpful.
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Jul 15, 2017 06:34
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^^^^ Our basic answer will be talk to your lawyer. If you're not comfortable with your lawyer anymore, hire a different one. Wickerman posted:If I go get a JD when I'm finished can we be friends??? No, because then you'd be a lawyer and I'm not friends with other lawyers.
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Jul 15, 2017 14:38
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joat mon posted:The Rosenbergs were convicted of espionage, not treason. Does that still exist as a crime? It seems way more applicable to Trump Jr. than treason.
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Jul 15, 2017 20:39
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What are the elements of espionage?
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Jul 15, 2017 21:36
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BgRdMchne posted:What are the elements of espionage? It also mostly has to do with defense information: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-37 Opfor research isn't quite that.
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Jul 15, 2017 22:05
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If what was described in the email happened, there were several violations of Federal election law committed at that meeting. Treason in any legal sense? No.
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Jul 15, 2017 22:17
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AlbieQuirky posted:If what was described in the email happened, there were several violations of Federal election law committed at that meeting. Treason in any legal sense? No. It's more extrapolation because this is the poo poo they were comfortable coming out and talking about with everyone. We don't even know what Mueller has come up with. Just wait until they open up the emoluments can of worms.
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Jul 15, 2017 22:28
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it seems extremely unlikely that anything meeting the legal standard for treason will come out (as opposed to stuff that a normal person might reasonably describe as "treason") *10 seconds later* eric trump admits he was raising an army to install his dad as president if he lost the election, "this is a total fake news nothingburger, the mercenaries never even left their barracks"
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Jul 15, 2017 23:32
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e: nvm
eighty-four merc fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 05:08
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AlbieQuirky posted:If what was described in the email happened, there were several violations of Federal election law committed at that meeting. Treason in any legal sense? No. What violations? Keep in mind the "as described in the email" caveat.
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Jul 16, 2017 07:39
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CarForumPoster posted:Heads up that if you plead guilty you will no longer have a clean driving record so 6 months from now when you get another ticket. Yeah, only a judge can dismiss the charges. I called the cop in hopes that he'll request the careless driving charge is dismissed. No guarantee that'll happen though.
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Jul 16, 2017 10:12
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joat mon posted:What violations? Keep in mind the "as described in the email" caveat. Goldstone said there would be documents from the Russian government that would be of assistance to the campaign. Junior would need much better attorneys than he had to make a case that that isn't a violation of election law. Anyway, they've now moved on to "the Secret Service should have stopped it" like the Secret Service is IRL Clippy. AlbieQuirky fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 16:30
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AlbieQuirky posted:Goldstone said there would be documents from the Russian government that would be of assistance to the campaign. Junior would need much better attorneys than he had to make a case that that isn't a violation of election law. Which election law did Junior violate?
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Jul 16, 2017 17:32
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joat mon posted:Which election law did Junior violate? The claim is that Jr was soliciting an illegal in-kind campaign donation.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:54
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They've been terrible at covering their tracks and I'm assuming Mueller is finding out what they promised the Russians in exchange for their help. It's also not allowed to take ANYTHING of value from another government even for free, which opposition research is.
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Jul 16, 2017 18:03
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I have a hypothetical apartment rental/collections question: Let's say that I rented an apartment, and after eight years I move out. I'm presented with a $2000 bill for carpet replacement, painting, and cleaning and I do not agree with the amount being billed. I'm told that if the $2000 isn't paid it will be sent straight to collections. I tell them it's been eight years and that's normal wear and tear. Question 1: Can I simply pay the $2000 and then take the rental company to court? Does paying a bill that you get presented with act like an admission of guilt or wrongdoing? (Also this is Cuyahoga County, Ohio). Part of what really confuses me, and I might have something mixed up here, is that it sounds like for BOTH nonpayment on a lease as well as damages the landlord can send the amount they say is due straight to a collections agency - that means a nasty ding on ones credit report before you even get a chance to go to court. Question 2: If the tenant/landlord relationship looks like it's going south, would it be worth it to discuss some of these concerns with a lawyer specializing in landlord/tenant law (for a fee, of course) before things go south, even as far as putting the lawyer on retainer for say $1000-$2000? (If this sort of thing did happen unless their claims were legit I'd contact a lawyer.) Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 22:04
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:The claim is that Jr was soliciting an illegal in-kind campaign donation. Does that apply to just anyone though? I understand that JR didn't/doesn't work for the campaign.
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Jul 17, 2017 02:15
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spacetoaster posted:Does that apply to just anyone though? I understand that JR didn't/doesn't work for the campaign. Oh he very clearly did/does though e: I don't think they ever paid him a salary, but they paid his expenses for stuff and the literal campaign manager at the time is on that e-mail thread too and attended the meeting in question e2: To be clear, I'm not saying whether he actually broke the law, or whether the law is unconstitutional, or whatever, just that of the stuff *explicitly described* in that e-mail, that's what he's accused of breaking the law with. But yes, it's arguably less important than the scandalous-but-not-necessarily-illegal stuff explicitly described in the e-mail, and the scandalous-and-maybe-illegal stuff that's implied by the e-mail Jeb Bush 2012 fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 02:22
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Three-Phase posted:I have a hypothetical apartment rental/collections question: 1) I don't know the minutia of Ohio's LTA specifically, but a landlord can't usually roll up and say "looks like about two grand to me". They need to provide an estimate for repair of the damages which you can contend and then they can try to sue you for. They can go to a collections agency without a judgement, though. 2) Call legal aid or a tenants union or somebody like that. If you are genuinely poor ask for a free/low cost consult. If you are not poor then please do not ask for your consult to be free/low cost, those people have enough problems as it is. The fact that they're coming after an eight-year tenant for carpet shows they're either rookies or assholes or both. Also lmao at trying to claim a fee for "cleaning" before you're out. Everyone lives like a slob until the day before they have to hand in the keys, trust me. Unload My Head fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 02:27
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First off, thanks for your feedback on this issue. It's been really troubling me. I did a little more digging and there are also limits about WHEN they can bill for damages - I believe the bill must be sent within 30 days of move-out. So they can't find something a year down the line and send out a bill. Unload My Head posted:They can go to a collections agency without a judgement, though. There's a question that dovetails into this angle - if they contact a collections agency, does that mean that I will immediately see something on my credit reports that basically say "Hey, this ***hole owes us $2000" without it going to small claims (or regular if a bigger amount) court first? The potentially serious ding to my credit score or having the debt passed from shady collection agency to shady collection agency doesn't sit well with me. Unload My Head posted:2) Call legal aid or a tenants union or somebody like that. If you are genuinely poor ask for a free/low cost consult. If you are not poor then please do not ask for your consult to be free/low cost, those people have enough problems as it is. By the grace of God I have enough money to afford a decent attorney that specializes in landlord/tenant law - in fact I'm visiting a law firm for other business later this week and they have someone on their team that specializes in landlord/tenant law. I think the plan of attack I'd like to pursue if push comes to shove is working with the attorney to send them (via the attorney's office of course) a polite but firm "no way am I paying this, and here's why" letter. I figure it may cost a couple hundred bucks but I would be willing to pay that. I think the idea of them selling the debt to a collections agency and immediately tanking my credit scares me a hellofa lot more than, say, taking me directly to small claims court. Seems like I'd have a fairer fight there. ASIDE: Also I'm a bit of a photographer so I intend to take tons of pictures and video before moving out as well. So if it does go to court I can have nice 8x10 glossy color photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph of text on the back of each one. Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 03:01
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