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OctaMurk posted:But what about the pro That is the question. I mean, its been announced at this meeting that sanctions were discussed, and that help was offered. We know that Trump's campaign and administration has tried to relieve sanctions. We just don't have a piece of paper where Trump signed his name to this agreement. Its kind of like the Beavis and Butthead episode where they meet a policewoman posing as a prostitute and she tries to arrest them but they just keep giggling hysterically and never actually offer her anything. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0844519/ Uh...related, here is Hank Hill's dog: 
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Jul 15, 2017 06:53
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Pembroke Fuse posted:The suburbs: where America goes to die. Not true! Toby Keith lives off the suburbs and he's about as American as burning tires.
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Jul 15, 2017 06:57
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Despera posted:Did we determine if it was ok to mock them or not? Although people here think it is a shtick, I finally got at least some people in the thread to understand the difference between Frontier and Remote areas, areas more than an hour from a metropolitan area, and garden variety rural areas. Like, if you look at West Virginia, it is rural, but something like 5% of the state's population lives more than an hour from a metro area of 50,000 people. If you look at the rural areas in the East, they are all pretty close to urban areas. I mean, parts of West Virginia are literally in the Washington, D.C., metro area. So the "rural poverty" is this an entire cultural attitude that doesn't really match their geographic reality. Most people in West Virginia can reach Washington, D.C., Pittsburgh, Columbus, or another million plus metro area easier than most people in Montana or Wyoming can reach a metro area of over 100,000 people. There were times in United States history when rural populations were truly isolated from mainstream society, when rural areas didn't have electricity, water, and where the roads were so poor that people really could only go into a town to buy shoes every three months. This is no longer the case, and people have forgotten that it ever was, because rural identity is solely cultural. This is vital because Donald Trump became president not with the support of a few farmers huddling around the card table at the local general store and talking about farm prices, but by suburbanites and exurbanites who have been cut off from their communities, had a simulacron community and identity provided by the mass media, and have no idea of what it means to live out of mainstream society.
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Jul 15, 2017 07:06
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sit on my Facebook posted:Literal nothing is going to save small town rural America. Destitution is inevitable as long as survival is contingent on employment.
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Jul 15, 2017 07:12
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glowing-fish posted:Although people here think it is a shtick, I finally got at least some people in the thread to understand the difference between Frontier and Remote areas, areas more than an hour from a metropolitan area, and garden variety rural areas. I think you hit on an important point: most individuals in rural areas really are not that removed from society. They are just committed to this identity, and afraid of having to give in and change themselves to fit in with urban culture. It represents what they most hate, and there is a perception that rural Americans are REAL Americans and thus more patriotic.
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Jul 15, 2017 07:29
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I think this idea that the Republican base consists of the suburbs is overstated. It's a statement that could be interpreted as true, but doesn't really mean that much. The reality I think, is that the greatest concentration of Republican voters are typically areas that Democrats do very well in. To use Pennsylvania as an example, there are 9 counties in the state where Donald Trump received over 100,000 votes, and those counties account for 44% of his total in the state. Hillary won 6 of those 9 counties. Philadelphia County went 85% for Clinton, but that's still over 100,000 Trump votes. Nobody is going to try to claim that downtown Philly makes up a core demographic of the Republican base.
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Jul 15, 2017 07:40
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glowing-fish posted:suburbanites and exurbanites who have been cut off from their communities, had a simulacron community and identity provided by the mass media, and have no idea of what it means to live out of mainstream society.
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Jul 15, 2017 07:42
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i am harry posted:I can tell you truly that this is not a revelation to anyone who has had the misfortune of living in one of these areas while not being one of these people. As a person with parents who fit this exact description, it's terrifying to see how cut off a person can be from their community while being surrounded by people. My folks are the type that go to work, come home, flip on the TV, eat dinner, fall asleep and repeat. Their entire view of the world is shaped by whatever media is on the local news, and they are utterly friendless and sad. They've alienated their neighbors in the middle of suburbia and cut off the outside, and then attribute their life frustrations to issues of race. I'd be horrified if this was actually a common reality for a large segment of the population.
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Jul 15, 2017 08:00
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There Bias Two posted:I'd be horrified if this was actually a common reality for a large segment of the population. Afraid it is, you just described my folks too
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Jul 15, 2017 08:02
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glowing-fish posted:This is vital because Donald Trump became president not with the support of a few farmers huddling around the card table at the local general store and talking about farm prices, but by suburbanites and exurbanites who have been cut off from their communities, had a simulacron community and identity provided by the mass media, and have no idea of what it means to live out of mainstream society. Or he's an unpopular candidate that slipped in from electoral college putting thumb on the scale for sparse states and with the alternative being sleazy thirdway useless liberal trash. Just because Trump is a grotesque joke doesn't absolve Clinton of being a terrible candidate that was too conservative 8 years ago. People keep quoting the southern strategy as if ONLY the republican party was poisoned from it. You realize the modern democrats are less racist old Republicans and modern Republicans are old democrats without the social programs right? The summer DNC convention of parade of minorities advocating cutting taxes and regulations for free market solutions was a cynical ploy of that overtly stated the DNC has absolutely no desire to do anything useful besides court donors who can tell the GOP has gone completely insane. What the gently caress does racism have to do with WV, a 94% white state, who supported the pinko, and then the guy advocating for some sliver of industry they have left? Has the possibility occurred to you that racism is a cynical red herring to describe an ethnically homogeneous state that supports the (theoretically) more populist candidate? Are you not comfortable accepting the democratic party leadership has become a pro-civil rights 1970s Republican party? That Trump is the result of that kind of moral compromise? That celebrating diversity and normalizing every perversion while advocating nothing of material help to people is going to completely erode the system down to the cynical and the violently angry? White people who spend a lot of money to live in all white suburbs and collect property who have no interest in having taxes raised and consider Clinton a good enough candidate if for no reason but not being Trump don't care that much that the destitute and disillusioned they extract rent from see no reason to support the status quo. Terrible as Trump is, if you have as few expectations as the DNC wants you to have, "gently caress You" is good enough response. People keep quoting Steinbeck too about temporarily embarrassed millionaires.That wasn't about Republicans. That's about upwardly mobile liberal yuppies collecting property and decrying societies ills with crocodile tears. Like all middle class people, the ills of society are being projected onto the poor and the destitute, and the problems at hand are uncouth behavior, not things important enough to engage in violence over. The two most white trash things are overt racism, and miscegenation. Despite logically understanding that Trump won the support of "people like you", the thought disgusts you, so you feel the need to push as far away from yourself as possible. Clinton had the support of conservatives, Trump had the support of older conservatives and religious people/fascists. The dye was cast in the primary, Clinton and Trump were varying shades of the ugliness of money power, donor centric platforms and the inherent corruption of a declining empire inevitably trending towards violent breakdown. What stake do people with no expectation of a future have in a system? Kilroy posted:I don't have a problem with subsidizing the rural poor but I think we should do it on condition of relocating them to the cities where they can live alongside all the gays and abortionists. Yes. That's a politically realistic solution, relocate the destitute to the most expensive areas. loving genius. I love it. Oh, wait, that would require massive infrastructure and and social programs. Good thing there's a political party not cynically exploiting the rightward lurch of both parties and willing to raise taxes on the donor class to improve the quality of life of the lower class to... oh poo poo. There isn't. I mean we can get them like a transgender bathroom or something. Problem solved.
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Jul 15, 2017 08:18
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Sneakster posted:That celebrating diversity and normalizing every perversion while advocating nothing of material help to people is going to completely erode the system down to the cynical and the violently angry? What perversions does the Democratic party want to normalize?
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Jul 15, 2017 08:21
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Pakled posted:What perversions does the Democratic party want to normalize? Piss play I think.
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Jul 15, 2017 08:24
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Democrats care more about protecting perverts like trans people than saving steel mills: a right wing Twitter analysis
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Jul 15, 2017 08:25
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Pakled posted:What perversions does the Democratic party want to normalize? That gross thing you project onto the other.
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Jul 15, 2017 08:27
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There Bias Two posted:As a person with parents who fit this exact description, it's terrifying to see how cut off a person can be from their community while being surrounded by people. I'm an older millennial (born in 1986) and I can attest to this with my parents. My dad is a baby boomer (1962) and my mom is from the end of the baby boomers/beginning of Gen X (1966). My dad moved out to the woods, drives 45 mins to work and 45 minutes back home, and does the same thing. My mother lives the exact lifestyle you are describing: does not hang out with neighbors, is very focused on her immediate family and refuses all technology except the local news. I don't know it has anything to do with the whole 'alienated Gen X' thing, and they just love the feeling of independent loneliness, but they avoid interaction.
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Jul 15, 2017 08:34
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Sneakster posted:That gross thing you project onto the other. That's not how normalizing things works, though.
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Jul 15, 2017 08:35
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Oh also, Sneakster posted:Clinton had the support of conservatives lol
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Jul 15, 2017 08:39
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So is Trump golfing somewhere in France tomorrow? Or will he be embarrassing the united states some other, more french way?
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Jul 15, 2017 08:39
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empty whippet box posted:So is Trump golfing somewhere in France tomorrow? Or will he be embarrassing the united states some other, more french way? He's back home by now, isn't he?
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Jul 15, 2017 08:46
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Mustached Demon posted:Piss play I think. DreamShipWrecked posted:Democrats care more about protecting perverts like trans people than saving steel mills: a right wing Twitter analysis Religion is a scam, but the sexual morality that the democratic party has embraced is actually quite extreme considering even Obama didn't support gay marriage. They've gone from being against gay marriage or even adoption to supporting trans people in less than a decade while taking in anti-unionists and declaring tax increases impossible. Religious people are awful, gullible rubes, but its kind of amazing what the democrats can and can't pull off depending on what they care about. After trans people, its gonna be otherkin and bronies getting recognition on IDs. Not privatizing social security is going to become a deluded dream of activists though. eviltastic posted:That's not how normalizing things works, though. Clop, clop. I'm a democrat. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 15, 2017 08:48
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http://taskandpurpose.com/mattis-tr...m_medium=social Mattis might be the least worst of Trump's picks. quote:On July 13, as the House debated an amendment to the 2018 Pentagon budget bill that would have barred the military from funding servicemembers’ gender reassignment surgeries, Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis privately intervened, calling the amendment’s Republican sponsor and asking her to withdraw it from consideration, CNN reports.
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Jul 15, 2017 08:50
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Vahakyla posted:Mattis might be the least worst of Trump's picks. The least worst guy: the war criminal.
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Jul 15, 2017 09:02
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Sneakster posted:If they had time to film it, why didn't they stop it? Makes u think. What a post.
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Jul 15, 2017 09:05
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El Pollo Blanco posted:What a post. Nah he's right, it's a real danger. Hell, last time I was in a unisex bathroom it hit me so hard I totally lost class consciousness. Woke up with a new iPhone bookmarking my place halfway through a Tom Friedman book. Gotta be careful not to dig too deep into those trans issues.
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Jul 15, 2017 09:24
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Sneakster posted:If they had time to film it, why didn't they stop it? Makes u think.
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Jul 15, 2017 09:28
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Hastings posted:I'm an older millennial (born in 1986) and I can attest to this with my parents. My dad is a baby boomer (1962) and my mom is from the end of the baby boomers/beginning of Gen X (1966). My dad moved out to the woods, drives 45 mins to work and 45 minutes back home, and does the same thing. My mother lives the exact lifestyle you are describing: does not hang out with neighbors, is very focused on her immediate family and refuses all technology except the local news. I don't know it has anything to do with the whole 'alienated Gen X' thing, and they just love the feeling of independent loneliness, but they avoid interaction. I think sometimes you guys try too hard to attach things you don't like to generations. I'm not saying there aren't some correlations but it often goes too far and is intellectually lazy. No matter what generation you're in you sound like all the others when you point fingers. Now let me take a moment to apologize for all the horrible Gen Xers that have seeped into politics and are doing terrible things. 
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Jul 15, 2017 09:43
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eviltastic posted:Nah he's right, it's a real danger. Hell, last time I was in a unisex bathroom it hit me so hard I totally lost class consciousness. Woke up with a new iPhone bookmarking my place halfway through a Tom Friedman book. Gotta be careful not to dig too deep into those trans issues. You were shooting for sarcasm, but ended up hitting irony. I'm in struggle with the nazi agents of the fascist governor seizing the DSS office to suppress a peoples liberation movement to get food stamps. Case manager told me that "we're Republican now" so they were kicking people off since "lazy blacks and illegals" were stealing all of them. I tried to explain that doesn't make any sense, but the bourgeois are too boorish and brainwashed by TV and capitalist propaganda to listen to reason. Forgall posted:If you don't stand by most vulnerable and abused people in society you don't deserve anybody to stand by you. Solidarity is for all or it is for nobody. That would be the poor and the destitute, who the democratic party has abandoned. They're also the cross section of the most vulnerable of the groups disproportionately affected by those things. Legalizing gay marriage while neglecting that many are likely to never able to afford to start a family is a farce. That the DNC has elevated politicians who stomped on these people while they were pulling Reagan voters only makes the absurdity stronger. The non-white middle class is also morally bankrupt. Muslims were overwhelmingly Republican until they started getting poo poo on post 9-11. Don't worry, I'm not saying they're bad people, they donated to their friends tax shelters/charities. They had no problem with gently caress you got mine until being on the wrong end of gently caress you. By accepting the primacy of identity over class, we are accepting a society in which market conditions are the principal driving force of determining human value. Under these conditions, solidarity is an impossible contradiction. These aren't accepted because they matter, they're accepted because they don't cost anything, they let middle class people practice moral hygiene. The cost to the lower class is dressed up as a moral failing of merit, and the gentry's vulture behavior is lauded as entrepreneurship. The decay and hopeless this creates makes violence the only and inevitable option. If I'm willing to hook up with non-whites, but not willing to seriously date or have children with, mainly due to financial issues of living in a caste system, am I racist? According to Democrats, no. Thank God, I almost had to consider possibility that I could be a bad person.
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Jul 15, 2017 10:08
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Ah yes the "non-white middle class is morally bankrupt" isn't racist as gently caress or anything.
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Jul 15, 2017 10:14
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I think you are in fact a racist.
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Jul 15, 2017 10:15
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Trabisnikof posted:Ah yes the "non-white middle class is morally bankrupt" isn't racist as gently caress or anything. E: Boris Galerkin posted:I think you are in fact a racist. I am absolutely not going to hesitate to support a racist power structure for financial gain or refuse to support institutions that actively work to dismantle the last of support structures for the most vulnerable. Having said that, I'm an anti-racist ally, and letting everyone know it makes all the difference. Sneakster fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 10:20
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Sneakster posted:That would be the poor and the destitute, who the democratic party has abandoned. They're also the cross section of the most vulnerable of the groups disproportionately affected by those things. your activism is misplaced. the democrats pander to the same people republicans pander to: voters as long as the poor and the destitute and marginalized minorities allow themselves to be cut out of civic life by not voting they will be ignored by politicians. convince them to vote (for third parties or protest spoiled ballots) and you'll see both the democrats and the republicans turn left at breakneck speed
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Jul 15, 2017 10:54
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Sneakster posted:Religion is a scam, but the sexual morality that the democratic party has embraced is actually quite extreme considering even Obama didn't support gay marriage. "Religion is a scam, now give me a minute to clutch my pearls at all this sexy sexy sex sex sex going on, oh heavens it's a sin, a sin!"
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Jul 15, 2017 10:58
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the talent deficit posted:as long as the poor and the destitute and marginalized minorities allow themselves to be cut out of civic life by not voting they will be ignored by politicians. convince them to vote (for third parties or protest spoiled ballots) and you'll see both the democrats and the republicans turn left at breakneck speed Luckily right-wing conservatism has already done an end-run around this by making it extremely difficult or outright impossible to vote if you're destitute or marginalized. Kobach's electoral inquisition commission is already terrifying people into de-registering from voter rolls. They've now gone national with voter suppression.
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Jul 15, 2017 11:04
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the talent deficit posted:your activism is misplaced. the democrats pander to the same people republicans pander to: voters I do not think you have very much here- blaming the marginalized for "allowing themselves" to become marginalized seems kind of circular, don't you think?
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Jul 15, 2017 11:22
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the talent deficit posted:as long as the poor and the destitute and marginalized minorities allow themselves to be cut out of civic life by not voting they will be ignored by politicians. convince them to vote (for third parties or protest spoiled ballots) and you'll see both the democrats and the republicans turn left at breakneck speed Prester Jane posted:I do not think you have very much here- blaming the marginalized for "allowing themselves" to become marginalized seems kind of circular, don't you think? Tried in primary, was crushed by boomers, celebrity and money power, and leadership has done everything it can to purge the taint of left wing pull. Oh but Pelosi promised passing minimum wage increase if we get them back into power though, what a deal! The bigger point I'm trying to make is middle class liberals keep blaming poor people for upper middle class people voting for Trump. Its very clear projection, they're very uncomfortable with the truth that they're a hair off from people too stupid to breathe. Not even cosmopolitan enlightenment can prevent them from projecting their shadow onto an alien other. That it justifies their role in an intolerable status quo high lights the inherent moral contradiction. Look at the WV thing. People voted for the socialist in the primary in WV, and the guy pandering to industry in the general. They just want a means to survive, but now they are that of the middle class liberal that cannot be accepted. That Clinton was offering nothing, that Trump was still largely brought into power by people like them and their neighbors and their parents, they don't want to consider it. Its not racist to disenfranchise anyone for purely political practical purposes. An obvious hollow lie, but that's not going to stop middle class liberals from a ditching a neighborhood when you know... property values start to drop. Its just money. Its the cheap filthy hollowness of these people. They'll shamelessly support attacking the people they pretend to care about for the slightest amount of cash, and act so indignant when the glaring contradiction is mentioned because NOT RACIST, SOCIALLY LIBERAL. Fascists get into power when liberals suppress socialists. Violence is the only avenue the system has left for people not concerned about their property values, and capital is against raising taxes. I'm of the lumpenprole that lived through Clinton's cuts to AFDC. These people are loving scum. As good as it is that society is becoming more tolerant, the transparency of a a cheap giveaway to avoid discussing anything that involves raising taxes is too vile to pretend isn't exactly what it is. The Clintons did incalculably more catastrophic damage to minorities, while spiting on gays than Trump and his cabal of human filth could ever dream of. The southern democrats are dead, how the hell did anyone not guess the coinflip outcome of the two worst candidates in electoral history. A Goldwater conservative vs a fascist, what a choice. Antti posted:They've now gone national with voter suppression. VitalSigns posted:"Religion is a scam, now give me a minute to clutch my pearls at all this sexy sexy sex sex sex going on, oh heavens it's a sin, a sin!" Whatever happened to political capital? Oh, it turns out it doesn't exist and the democrats are never going to raise taxes.
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Jul 15, 2017 11:42
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can you all take this discussion to the Dems are bad thread or CSPAM or Pet Island, idc
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Jul 15, 2017 11:53
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Sneakster posted:The Clintons did incalculably more catastrophic damage to minorities, while spiting on gays than Trump and his cabal of human filth could ever dream of. Ohhhh. So you're just a loving moron. Gotcha.
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Jul 15, 2017 11:54
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NiceGuy posted:Ohhhh. So you're just a loving moron. Gotcha.
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Jul 15, 2017 12:08
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"well identify the 8th person at the meeting shortly" Aka never
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Jul 15, 2017 12:09
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botany posted:can you all take this discussion to the Dems are bad thread or CSPAM or Pet Island, idc
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