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MonsterEnvy posted:So far only the Five Eldest Princes have done things. Not quite true. Halkenburg (9th) has resigned, Kacho (10th) proposed an alliance with Fugetsu (11th), and Momoze (12th) had the "are you free?" Nen beast. Tyson (6th), Luzurus (7th), and Sale-sale (8th) haven't really done anything, though, because they're incompetents. I actually had to make an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of the Princes and their Nen beasts and bodyguards. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 05:24
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Silver2195 posted:Not quite true. Halkenburg (9th) has resigned, Kacho (10th) proposed an alliance with Fugetsu (11th), and Momoze (12th) had the "are you free?" Nen beast. Thats not very much. Though you are right about Momoze's Nen Beast having done some stuff.
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Jul 15, 2017 06:56
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Jul 15, 2017 10:30
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Bad Seafood posted:Alternatively, he could be growing older at an accelerated rate, we just haven't picked up on it yet cause the dude's still in his late teens/early twenties. No. I do admit shorter lifespan is a weaker limitation compared to other ideas. I mean, most people don't live until their max potential lifespan anyways.
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Jul 15, 2017 10:54
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Alder posted:No. Shortening one's lifespan due to ability use is a pretty common weakness to the point of being its own trope given how little it ends up coming up in the story. I believe one of Luffy's Gears has a similar restriction (Gear 2nd?). Unless there's some sort of visible effect (like the user ages relative to their lifespan shortening or they visibly deteriorate), it's almost at the level of minmaxing a character.
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Jul 15, 2017 15:24
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The thing about the "shaving off lifespan" trope is that it's so often used as a way to make a power-up or whatever else have no actual tangible consequences. It sounds scary but narratively speaking it almost never comes up afterward. Most shonen authors aren't going to have the main character suddenly drop dead 80% through the story because of it. I think a good writer, like Togashi, uses it differently, as something for the character themselves to come to terms with, rather than as a dramatic narrative device. It doesn't work like that in something like One Piece or Fairy Tail or Bleach because the protagonists of those are either idiots who live in the moment or too concerned with saving the day/their friends to actually care about whatever repercussions it might have. Death Note is a perfect example, I think. Light is unwilling to accept the Shinigami Eyes because to him, halving his lifespan, which is an actual quantifiable number in that story, isn't worth the advantages they give. However, Misa is more than happy to do so, twice even, for his sake, because she's obsessed and also kind of broken, and Light is just like "hell yeah thanks babe". This paints a pretty clear picture of the relationship between them. Meanwhile in HxH, Gon, similarly in a broken state, pretty much throws away his life for his power-up, while Kurapika has likely been making sure every time he uses ET it's absolutely worth it. This also sort of explains why he's been so ice cold since Yorknew, because if he lets his emotions get the best of him he might inadvertently activate ET, which would be a bad thing.
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Jul 15, 2017 15:51
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The lifespan thing also works because it dovetails in with what we already know of Kurapika and how he approaches Nen, i.e., that he's basically overclocked his Hatsu with a number of incredibly harsh restrictions (I can only use this exact power on this extremely specific type of person or I'll loving DIE, etc.) because he's out for blood and has no will to live outside of his revenge. This is a guy who's probably not planning to see his golden years in the first place, a decade or two off the hind end of his lifespan is no biggie.
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Jul 15, 2017 16:16
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God I just realized we have like a dozen or so princes and we're going to have to give all of them at least some character development, introductions to their crew, and explanation of their beasts, and it's going to take a lot of chapters that wont happen before the next hiatus.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:59
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We already know quite a bit about some of the Princes. Benjamin, Tserriednich, Camilla and... Tubepa? (The doctor lady who looks like a dude) They've been explored to a degree. We also know about the twins and Halkenburg. I just hope this doesn't drag on and on like the manga version of the Chimera Ant arc.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:28
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i predict like half are going to bite it when poo poo starts to hits the fan
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Jul 15, 2017 20:04
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Alder posted:No. TriffTshngo posted:This also sort of explains why he's been so ice cold since Yorknew, because if he lets his emotions get the best of him he might inadvertently activate ET, which would be a bad thing.
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Jul 15, 2017 22:34
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Oxxidation posted:The lifespan thing also works because it dovetails in with what we already know of Kurapika and how he approaches Nen, i.e., that he's basically overclocked his Hatsu with a number of incredibly harsh restrictions (I can only use this exact power on this extremely specific type of person or I'll loving DIE, etc.) because he's out for blood and has no will to live outside of his revenge. This is a guy who's probably not planning to see his golden years in the first place, a decade or two off the hind end of his lifespan is no biggie. I mean, the real hell would be living too long for Kurapica if his plan failed  Also, why didn't he visit Gon in the hospital? I know he was busy at his new job but still.
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Jul 15, 2017 23:16
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Bad Seafood posted:Just throwing it out there. Gon aged rapidly to be able to fight Pitou so it's not outside the realm of possibility, but who knows. All that's clear is Kurapika's destroying himself in order to see his mission through to the end, which I definitely wouldn't put past Togashi to bring to the fore in an unpleasant manner. Gon's is quite different because he not only aged but more moved through time to a point where he was strong enough to beat Pitou whereas for Kurapika's it seems his body will just suffer increased apoptosis. Also Gon didn't age to a 150 years of age and die he directly traded his life force for that power and paid for it immediately.
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Jul 15, 2017 23:32
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He needs to have red eyes to activate ET, but does having red eyes means that ET auto activates?
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Jul 15, 2017 23:34
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i think that there may have originally been a difference, but kurapika always goes for the heaviest restrictions so they are now one and the same.
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Jul 15, 2017 23:51
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Alder posted:I mean, the real hell would be living too long for Kurapica if his plan failed Kurapika appears to be trying really really hard to remain a distant loner edgelord because he's afraid of the consequences of having friends again.
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Jul 15, 2017 23:52
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oh jay posted:He needs to have red eyes to activate ET, but does having red eyes means that ET auto activates? He got pissed off at one point during his nen training under Izunabi, who noticed his aura increased when his eyes turned red, so most likely yeah.
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Jul 15, 2017 23:55
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I figured Emperor Time was a genetic thing inherited by everyone in his clan. Uvo remembered them as being particularly tough, and I assumed that was why. Attaching the time limit to it was probably Kurapika's idea though.
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Jul 16, 2017 00:05
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how the gently caress do you even learn that detail though.
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Jul 16, 2017 00:09
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TriffTshngo posted:He got pissed off at one point during his nen training under Izunabi, who noticed his aura increased when his eyes turned red, so most likely yeah. Emperor Time is just the all nen types equally thing though isn't it? That seems distinct than getting generically stronger.
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Jul 16, 2017 00:15
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EmmyOk posted:Gon's is quite different because he not only aged but more moved through time to a point where he was strong enough to beat Pitou whereas for Kurapika's it seems his body will just suffer increased apoptosis. Also Gon didn't age to a 150 years of age and die he directly traded his life force for that power and paid for it immediately. Like I said, I don't have any particular attachment to the idea, I was just suggesting a more impactful take on the idea of spending your life force, since otherwise yeah it's basically just "I die a few days sooner than I would have, whatever." That said, Togashi probably won't go that route. At the very least, it does put some pressure on the guy to solve his problems quickly, since he seems to be doing the math. The queen can't keep the power he's given her forever. Kild posted:how the gently caress do you even learn that detail though. The Phantom Troupe certainly had more than a few uncomfortable ideas as to how to bring out the "Best" in them.
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Jul 16, 2017 00:40
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If I recall (both Nen type relationships and Kurapika's ability), Emperor Time allows him to have dominion of all types of Nen while still taking into account his own natural type (Conjuring) and level of prowess/afinity with regards to other types.
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Jul 16, 2017 00:40
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I still can't get over that abandoning your loved ones seems to be some sort of Freecs family special ability
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Jul 16, 2017 01:03
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oh jay posted:Emperor Time is just the all nen types equally thing though isn't it? That seems distinct than getting generically stronger. removing the restrictions on abilities is also an ability. high level enhancement on demand alone makes it an amazing talent.
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Jul 16, 2017 01:07
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Bad Seafood posted:The Kurta have been feared and hunted into near extinction because of their eyes, so I guess it came out at some point. Well, it wasn't exactly "feared"; their eyes were regarded as beautiful, hence them being a popular flesh collector trophy and the Troupe massacring them; it's how they "stole" their eyes. I don't think their Nen thing was known (I mean, most people don't even know about Nen), but the red eyes have always made them stronger, as Uvo noted while reminiscing. Wark Say posted:If I recall (both Nen type relationships and Kurapika's ability), Emperor Time allows him to have dominion of all types of Nen while still taking into account his own natural type (Conjuring) and level of prowess/afinity with regards to other types. It's a bit weird and confusing, but something like that. Paraphrasing how I remember it going (and using game terms since, hey, the manga itself did too), if he's a level ten Conjurer, then he's also a level eight Transmuter, level six Manipulator and Enhancer, and level four Emitter, and additionally uses those all worse than someone of those particular types would even if they were the "same" level; he'd be somewhat less capable than a level eight Transmuter at transmuting and considerably worse than a level four Emitter, despite having the "same" effective levels. Emperor Time ups his capability in all those to 100%, as if he were a natural person of that category using them, though it doesn't exactly let him do new things. To expand the game metaphor, his cross-class abilities can still be used to their full potential instead of having reduced effectiveness, but which abilities he can use are still capped by his level. So, for example, healing broken bones and lesser damage is level six Enhancement, and while Emperor Time is active he can use it for perfect healing despite being a Conjurer, who, while theoretically capable of such healing abilities, would be considerably worse or slower with it. He'll also be considerably tougher and more durable, because, you know, Enhancement, but in a way equivalent to a level six Enhancer; an equal-level one would be physically more powerful than him, because that's their natural area of expertise. And so on.
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Jul 16, 2017 01:09
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One thing I've never really liked about the restrictions/penalty system with nen is that then a common strategy should be to avoid driving a nen user into a corner, since then they might just give up their life for a massive power boost. Is the idea that only really talented people can do it on command?
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Jul 16, 2017 01:15
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i think that only the combination of gon's broken mind, immaturity and immense latent potential made it possible. he wasn't pulling power out of nowhere and he paid the price for it. most people are either not that crazy or lack the currency to buy similar, last ditch power-ups.
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Jul 16, 2017 01:23
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Shugojin posted:I still can't get over that abandoning your loved ones seems to be some sort of Freecs family special ability Gon's aunt though  Gon's mother mini-arc when? Yeah, yeah I know about the dumb tape reason. Now that I think about it Kurapika is OP but in exchange, he must be the most edgelord-iest of all characters in the cast. Liorio what are you up to now?
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Jul 16, 2017 01:27
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nen becomes more powerful after death, but most people don't do the whole sacrifice thing, because it requires a certain state of mind. like gon.
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Jul 16, 2017 01:27
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Yeah, it requires you wanting power not only more than you want to live, but being willing to stop living for that power. It's not something many people would use because most people, when desperate, specifically want to not die.
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Jul 16, 2017 01:35
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Roland Jones posted:It's a bit weird and confusing, but something like that. Paraphrasing how I remember it going (and using game terms since, hey, the manga itself did too), if he's a level ten Conjurer, then he's also a level eight Transmuter, level six Manipulator and Enhancer, and level four Emitter, and additionally uses those all worse than someone of those particular types would even if they were the "same" level; he'd be somewhat less capable than a level eight Transmuter at transmuting and considerably worse than a level four Emitter, despite having the "same" effective levels. 
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Jul 16, 2017 01:36
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I hope Kurapika doesn't self-destructive himself to death
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Jul 16, 2017 01:41
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Roland Jones posted:Well, it wasn't exactly "feared"; their eyes were regarded as beautiful, hence them being a popular flesh collector trophy and the Troupe massacring them; it's how they "stole" their eyes. I don't think their Nen thing was known (I mean, most people don't even know about Nen), but the red eyes have always made them stronger, as Uvo noted while reminiscing.  
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Jul 16, 2017 01:50
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Bad Seafood posted:
I meant how do you learn that ET is just cutting your lifespan down.
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Jul 16, 2017 01:54
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Kild posted:I meant how do you learn that ET is just cutting your lifespan down. I assume it's the scarlet eyes, not specifically ET that's doing it; and I'd guess that it's a tribal knowledge kind of thing.
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Jul 16, 2017 01:57
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Sarcophallus posted:I assume it's the scarlet eyes, not specifically ET that's doing it; and I'd guess that it's a tribal knowledge kind of thing. No that would be a Kurapika thing.
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Jul 16, 2017 02:00
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Kild posted:I meant how do you learn that ET is just cutting your lifespan down. Emperor Time is just something he invented using Nen, it isn't innate to the Kurta or anything.
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Jul 16, 2017 02:09
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Bad Seafood posted:Because Kurapika designed it to. I don't think you can design 'specialization' at least consciously.
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Jul 16, 2017 02:12
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Kild posted:I don't think you can design 'specialization' at least consciously. You can't design Specialization if your another type. As you need to be a specialist to use them. Kurapika found out when his eyes turned Red he becomes one. And Specialists can pretty much pretty wild with abilities. But there is nothing that makes specialist Nen different from other types in how powers are made, other then the fact they can go a bit wilder.
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Jul 16, 2017 02:17
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MonsterEnvy posted:You can't design Specialization if your another type. As you need to be a specialist to use them. Kurapika found out when his eyes turned Red he becomes one. And Specialists can pretty much pretty wild with abilities. I'm not sure that's true. The only specialists we've seen have just 'had' their specialization.
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Jul 16, 2017 02:22
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