|
Testekill posted:Jeez, I wonder what the gently caress happened to Green? It reportedly was almost overnight and such a dramatic shift in her attitude. Well they decided it'd be super good and cool to shack up with a "MUH REDPEEL" moron, so some part of it could easily have been insidious influence.
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 06:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 21:41 |
|
|
Testekill posted:Jeez, I wonder what the gently caress happened to Green? It reportedly was almost overnight and such a dramatic shift in her attitude. I seem to recall (if the D&D YouTuber thread is anything approaching accurate) it was something like she started dating a guy and he very quickly turned out to be an alt-right shithead. And instead of going "oh, okay, I don't think I want you in my life any more," she went "this is intriguing, tell me more of your secrets" and she just fell down the rabbit hole and has been hitting every piece of furniture on the way down. E: beaten, but yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 06:43
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:I seem to recall (if the D&D YouTuber thread is anything approaching accurate) it was something like she started dating a guy and he very quickly turned out to be an alt-right shithead. And instead of going "oh, okay, I don't think I want you in my life any more," she went "this is intriguing, tell me more of your secrets" and she just fell down the rabbit hole and has been hitting every piece of furniture on the way down. Love is a hell of a drug.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 06:47
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Love is a hell of a drug. Love + Mormonism brainwashing apparently, since she's ex-that. I hate her equally to how much I feel bad for her. Actually maybe a bit less than that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 07:05
|
|
|
I think it's a combination of love and the dude telling her that she'll be rolling in MRA welfare money if she pretends (or actually becomes) a "convert" to their cause.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 07:15
|
|
|
In other news, in a video to probably be available to non-patrons soon, Lindsay Ellis, never one to shy from controversy, tackles cultural appropriation. Edit: https://twitter.com/thelindsayellis/status/886471577956528129 Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Jul 16, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 07:15
|
|
|
I think I never heard of Laci Green until this thread and the D&D thread. Before Googling, I first thought she was some apolitical gamer personality who then decided to pivot to the red pill crowd by pretending she's a real life Vivian or something. After Googling what she was originally famous for, her fall seems more tragic. Christ.Absurd Alhazred posted:In other news, in a video to probably be available to non-patrons soon, Lindsay Ellis, never one to shy from controversy, tackles cultural appropriation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 07:38
|
|
|
Echo Chamber posted:I think I never heard of Laci Green until this thread and the D&D thread. Before Googling, I first thought she was some apolitical gamer personality who then decided to pivot to the red pill crowd by pretending she's a real life Vivian or something. After Googling what she was originally famous for, her fall seems more tragic. Christ. I think you might be mistaken: https://twitter.com/thelindsayellis/status/261874857048961025
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 07:41
|
|
|
Genocyber posted:Love + Mormonism brainwashing apparently, since she's ex-that. I hate her equally to how much I feel bad for her. Actually maybe a bit less than that. This is not as far off as it maybe sounds. A strict gender binary is baked into LDS eschatology, being a key feature of their conceptualization of the soul and the afterlife. It's not just a hazy social construct, it's a fundamental building block of the universe. In the way that Laci talks about her relationship with the church (in the few times she does discuss it) it's pretty clear that it's a part of her life that she's very much Not Over, and the simple fact is that pretty much everyone retains a fairly substantial amount of their childhood philosophies for the rest of their lives. Chris is a turd, but he's a mainstream turd. "There are only two genders" and "trans women are liars" are (sadly) mainstream opinions. The alchemy of this is a social environment where a hypothetical person in this situation moves "to the middle" and still feels like they've retained a substantial degree of liberality because they're still left of their childhood reference point. I'm reluctant to say she's doing it for the money, though. Outrage may be where a lot of the YouTube bucks are, but there's a lot more bucks in MTV and public speaking, two bridges that I'm sure are almost pure ash and cinder by now. Add to that the fact that her new audience is in it for the drama, they're not hanging around to watch her back catalogue, and the stats indicate this. She's seen a spike in traffic relative to her almost entire year of low activity, but it's a drop compared to the traffic during her conflict with Sam Pepper, where there was pretty clearly a new audience coming in and, for the most part, staying. New subs for the last 28 days are not negative, but down substantially despite the fact that she's been putting out videos pretty regularly in that time. Also 5k subs in a high-activity month is sad for a channel with 1.5 million subs. It might as well be stagnant. She's had two videos over 1 million hits in the last two months, but only grown by 12k subs? All of that growth was during VidCon, by the way, since then she's barely maintaining replacement on any given day. Hell, she released her "How Many Freakin Genders Part 2" video this week and has been losing subs ever since. It's not good. I'm keeping an eye on it, because I'm a nerd like that, but the signs are pointing towards a small drama wave that's already crested, and now her "new" edgelord audience does not care. They're not watching and subbing, because she's too soft for them. They want Blaire White and Carl screaming about how trans people are mentally ill, not mealy mouthed mainstream "boys wear blue, girls wear pink" pablum. They love-bombed her when she hugged Carl, but the honeymoon is already over.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 08:21
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Ross's Game Dungeon has a double feature out on a title called Armed and Delirious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qRCzIj9QEo What the hell did I just witness.  Not only is this one of the weirdest adventure game I've ever seen, it might well be one of worst designed. This is the kind of thing where I want to see someone track down one of the developers to ask what went on behind the scenes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 08:25
|
|
|
FoldableHuman posted:I'm reluctant to say she's doing it for the money, though. Outrage may be where a lot of the YouTube bucks are, but there's a lot more bucks in MTV and public speaking, two bridges that I'm sure are almost pure ash and cinder by now. Add to that the fact that her new audience is in it for the drama, they're not hanging around to watch her back catalogue, and the stats indicate this. She's seen a spike in traffic relative to her almost entire year of low activity, but it's a drop compared to the traffic during her conflict with Sam Pepper, where there was pretty clearly a new audience coming in and, for the most part, staying. New subs for the last 28 days are not negative, but down substantially despite the fact that she's been putting out videos pretty regularly in that time. Also 5k subs in a high-activity month is sad for a channel with 1.5 million subs. It might as well be stagnant. She's had two videos over 1 million hits in the last two months, but only grown by 12k subs? All of that growth was during VidCon, by the way, since then she's barely maintaining replacement on any given day. Hell, she released her "How Many Freakin Genders Part 2" video this week and has been losing subs ever since. It's not good. I'm keeping an eye on it, because I'm a nerd like that, but the signs are pointing towards a small drama wave that's already crested, and now her "new" edgelord audience does not care. They're not watching and subbing, because she's too soft for them. They want Blaire White and Carl screaming about how trans people are mentally ill, not mealy mouthed mainstream "boys wear blue, girls wear pink" pablum. They love-bombed her when she hugged Carl, but the honeymoon is already over. Interesting stuff. Chris may have just oversold her on the idea of how much actual money/support "converting" would get her.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 08:27
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Just because they are sequels to games with less than stellar writing shouldn't be a mark against the product itself. You rarely see people complain about the writing in obsidian games, while you can quite easily and rightfully criticize their gameplay and stability. This is a good point I hadn't considered. I'm relatively new to WRPGs (Dragon Age: Origins having been my first back at the end of 2014) and so I'm not too caught up on Obsidian's reputation in the media. As someone who liked playing FO3 far more than playing NV, but who found NV's story infinitely superior, it was strange playing the two games back-to-back a couple years ago. I also tried playing Planescape: Torment because I was assured it was the best written game of all time but holy poo poo I hated the gameplay. Arcsquad12 posted:I direct you to HBomb's Fallout 3 video, where morality is displayed in a video review by attacking a friendly super mutant upon seeing him, or an entire town turning hostile because you pick up a fork. I like Bethesda's TES writing. It's not revolutionary but it works. Honestly, Morrowind was far more fun to read than to play and all the debate about Imperials or Stormcloaks shows Bethesda did something right. I know it's popular to poo poo on Skyrim for some well-deserved reasons but the fact it has maintained its huge popularity over all these years is quite impressive to me. My point being, Fallout 3 just seems like it was a low point, even for Bethesda. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Jul 16, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 08:48
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:I think you might be mistaken: Nah, it was deleted beforehand but there was totally a period where Todd constantly was brought up to defend Cloud Atlas's YellowFace and also "This movie can't possibly be criticized on cultural appropriation backgrounds because a transwoman wrote it".
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 09:08
|
|
|
Kunster posted:Nah, it was deleted beforehand but there was totally a period where Todd constantly was brought up to defend Cloud Atlas's YellowFace and also "This movie can't possibly be criticized on cultural appropriation backgrounds because a transwoman wrote it". If you say so. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 09:16
|
|
|
Given it was deleted there may be a chance that same path might not be rethreaded on this vid.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 09:32
|
|
|
Kunster posted:Given it was deleted there may be a chance that same path might not be rethreaded on this vid. I don't think it is. I'd be interested in seeing what that original discussion was actually like, to compare and contrast Lindsay then to Lindsay now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 09:36
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:Interesting stuff. Chris may have just oversold her on the idea of how much actual money/support "converting" would get her. It seems possible that eventually people will begin to recognize the reasonably high risk of youtube celebrity causing legit mental breakdowns. All that unstructured time alone plus direct contact with roiling hordes of internet people plus a pressing need to produce regular content seems really bad for the long-term health of video producers. Laci Green might be making a cynical decision, but I think she's breaking under the pressure of constant criticism from all directions, as in her recent "debate" video she basically confesses to being really upset that she can't come up with sex-specific vocabulary that pleases an internet audience informed on trans issues while remaining transparent to naive teens who want to know about birth control and g-spots. She seems like a people-pleaser who can't handle not being able to make peace with everyone (which seems like another very mormon sort of expectation for women). Add that to her making up with sargon and feeling good about it, and it seems like she likes the pepes because they feed her need for a conciliatory center where people can disagree and concede points without being rude. What she really needs is a psychiatrist.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 13:49
|
|
|
The thing is that you can outright ask or even hire transgender consultants to take a peek on your script. At some point it just becomes easier to step down as an authority on such but still go "Ok I admit I hosed up a lot and will work on it. Hopefully the next time I work on it I can come across better on it." Specially someone with as big of a name as her.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 14:34
|
|
|
Looking forward to HBomb's take about the latest Doctor being a woman, and Moffat being replaced as showrunner.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 17:48
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Looking forward to HBomb's take about the latest Doctor being a woman, and Moffat being replaced as showrunner. Both those things should have happened years ago.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 18:11
|
|
|
Moffat rules and this casting would never have happened without his literal years of pushing for it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 18:15
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:Moffat rules and this casting would never have happened without his literal years of pushing for it. Hahaha what the gently caress are you talking about he did the exact opposite. Steven Moffat posted:I like that Helen Mirren has been saying the next doctor should be a woman. I would like to go on record and say that the Queen should be played by a man. https://stillnotshakespeare.wordpress.com/2013/08/06/moffat-mocks-female-doctor-who/ E: even better link showing his history with this issue
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 18:19
|
|
|
THE neweesssst hit has drooooppped. Posted that only after I'm done watching it, since I wanted to be fair. Well, it's certainly better than her takes on that years ago, but that would be damning by faint praise so gently caress that. It's good! It's not this weird "Gonna go scream at kids and use odd examples" that a lot of critics and internet famous folk did back then and it was certainly more mature, explaining the nuance on how cultural appropriation isn't necessarily a negative thing. I also liked that it wasn't the front and center on the title so it didn't shat out several vids with internet atheists at me. Hoping more vids are like this and I'm happy about my pleasant surprise.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 18:22
|
|
|
TheMaestroso posted:Hahaha what the gently caress are you talking about he did the exact opposite. The past three seasons of Doctor Who have: repeatedly positioned Clara, the companion for S8/S9, in the "Doctor" role, including putting her face in the title sequence and giving her her own TARDIS and companion for her exit, and repeatedly established that Time Lords can, and often do, change gender during regeneration. The idea that Moffat was opposed to this is absurd.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 18:33
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:The past three seasons of Doctor Who have: repeatedly positioned Clara, the companion for S8/S9, in the "Doctor" role, including putting her face in the title sequence and giving her her own TARDIS and companion for her exit, and repeatedly established that Time Lords can, and often do, change gender during regeneration. The idea that Moffat was opposed to this is absurd. Wow, impressive - seven years as showrunner and he hinted at female time lords in the past, what two years? Give the man a medal! And now that he's gone there's going to be a woman time lord? Couldn't possibly be that he was the only person preventing that from happening, nope.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 18:48
|
|
|
Not hinted. The Master regenerates into a woman explicitly and so does a Time Lord General in the s9 finale. He doesn't deserve a medal but he doesn't deserve to be slandered either.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 18:51
|
|
|
"Cultural appropriation", as I understand it, is using another culture as artistic raw materials without giving the original creators the proper respect and credit. I've mostly seen it contrasted with 'cultural exchange', where that level of respect exists. Given that it's a pejorative, I'm not sure that there can, be definition, be 'good' appropriation - indeed, most of the stuff I've seen saying 'no use of stuff from anyone else's culture ever' seems to come from racists trying to muddy the waters and discredit a useful term.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 18:56
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:"Cultural appropriation", as I understand it, is using another culture as artistic raw materials without giving the original creators the proper respect and credit. I've mostly seen it contrasted with 'cultural exchange', where that level of respect exists. Given that it's a pejorative, I'm not sure that there can, be definition, be 'good' appropriation - indeed, most of the stuff I've seen saying 'no use of stuff from anyone else's culture ever' seems to come from racists trying to muddy the waters and discredit a useful term. The analogies I like to use for this topic are War Bonnets for Appropriation and Tikka Masala for Cultural Exchange. It really comes down to "Ask a person of that culture if it's okay to use/modify *thing* and don't act like a gross tourist about it/try to claim it as your own."
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 19:11
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:"Cultural appropriation", as I understand it, is using another culture as artistic raw materials without giving the original creators the proper respect and credit. I've mostly seen it contrasted with 'cultural exchange', where that level of respect exists. Given that it's a pejorative, I'm not sure that there can, be definition, be 'good' appropriation - indeed, most of the stuff I've seen saying 'no use of stuff from anyone else's culture ever' seems to come from racists trying to muddy the waters and discredit a useful term. I am not a social scientist myself but the general sense I get is that appropriation is itself a neutral term in the literature or one not used at all, as it's interested in how and why particular instances are harmful or dangerous. As is usual, the internet has somewhat gone off in its own direction without proper supervision.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 19:40
|
|
|
Man Hbomb doesn't even need to make a video about doctor who if people will just willingly go at each other at the drop of a hat
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 19:41
|
|
|
business hammocks posted:I am not a social scientist myself but the general sense I get is that appropriation is itself a neutral term in the literature or one not used at all, as it's interested in how and why particular instances are harmful or dangerous. As is usual, the internet has somewhat gone off in its own direction without proper supervision. which, having just watched lindsay's video on it, is exactly what she describes it as, and she's right, I thought the same but I hadn't quite put it in such an ordered way, it can be a difficult concept to grasp I think the reason it can be so difficult to grasp is you see people whining about appropriation and a lot of it feels kind of hollow, like ok maybe it's bad but it's often arguable and kind of an abstract idea until you're confronted with how ugly it can be I think most people will misunderstand the term, which living in australia and seeing appropriation of their art compared how loving awful they were treated, I was confronted with it pretty early on edit: which, to clarify what I mean, it's somewhat of a moral whiplash to see your grandparents going around saying poo poo like "loving boongs" and other racist horseshit while having a house filled with artifacts of that culture, their lack of self awareness was truly shocking cat doter fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jul 16, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 20:07
|
|
|
Basically it's something like that: Sane people: cultural appropriation is a thing that exists, sadly often taking form that could rightfully cause offence. Let's discuss and list these mistakes to hopefully be more mindful in the future. Example: this Indian-themed shirt may look nice, but I think it's kind of wrong to use someone's religious symbolism as mere designer aesthetic. Internet people: cultural appropriation is hitler. Example: holy gently caress did a white guy just buy tacos, let's tweet about it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 21:25
|
|
|
Wasn't there something a while ago where the UN or some other organization was working to make cultural appropriation illegal?
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 21:31
|
|
|
Max Wilco posted:Wasn't there something a while ago where the UN or some other organization was working to make cultural appropriation illegal? Not exactly, but sort of? A committee of delegates in the UN have been working on legislation to bring to their member nations to protect the cultural heritage of indigenous people, that would make people outside indigenous culture claiming elements of it and selling it for a profit illegal. So specifically situations like, as in the example they cited, Urban Outfitters selling "Navajo hipster panties". It's specifically pointed at products that are using elements of indigenous cultures and that are being promoted as or named to imply that they were either created by or endorsed by those cultures. But they've been working on it since 2001 and haven't had much progress. http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/indigenous-advocates-call-on-un-to-make-cultural-appropriation-illegal-a7791851.html Idran fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jul 16, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 21:41
|
|
|
Lichtenstein posted:Basically it's something like that: Fat, bearded English youtube reactionary: now the left wants to make it ILLEGAL for anyone who isn't an ethnic mexican to enjoy tacos!
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2017 22:13
|
|
|
WampaLord posted:Interesting stuff. Chris may have just oversold her on the idea of how much actual money/support "converting" would get her. A better takeaway, for me, is non-financial motives, or just a generally far more complex series of background events than just "dating new dude who told her she could make stacks by trashing feminism on YouTube" because as well as that pays it doesn't pay MTV money, or even public speaking money.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2017 01:10
|
|
|
I think she just may be stupid and kinda hateful.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2017 01:12
|
|
|
sexpig by night posted:I think she just may be stupid and kinda hateful. The YouTuber Dick Coughlan made a great video about Laci and thunderf00t a month or so ago. Laci's whole "now let me sit you all down and talk these things out" is very similar to Mason's "I'M LEAVING THE SKEPTIC COMMUNITY." They both have this clear "it's all about me" approach to their ideologies, viewing themselves as invaluable to their "sides." Laci thinks herself some messiah who can bridge the gap between racists and non-racists or misogynistis and feminists because she has an inflated sense of her own importance. And while it's true, she was probably the most popular feminist on YT for a while, something that escapes her and her new friends' attention is that YT is largely a cesspool that does not at all reflect reality. Then again, going by Lilly Singh's video calling out racist shitheads getting hundreds of thousands of Likes, it's probably more like YT is just home to a particularly well-organized right wing that makes them seem bigger than they are.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2017 03:09
|
|
|
Laci got cut by MTV last year.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2017 04:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 21:41 |
|
|
The issue is that there's something baked into the way white people control culture that means that white people really really hate not being able to be the authoritative voice on something. I'm half Native but I pass as white 99% of the time and this is a thing I've often had to deal with in my personal life. Like you just don't get to be able to say "no this complex racial thing works this way" even if you've studied it and been involved with it for years and years because it's just not something you get to cast an opinion on, and there's some kind of trigger switch in mainstream hetero white people culture that causes them to immediately go THIS IS CENSORSHIP AND YOU ARE TRYING TO CENSOR ME LOOK WHO'S THE FASCISTS NOWWWWWWWWWWW. Also yeah being ex-Mormon fucks your brain. Like super bad. The church maintains this control over things where they build every part of your life and identity around how if you prove your loyalty you gain more truths and eventually you know everything. It separates everything into black and white, good and bad, those who know and who don't. Even withing the structure of the church there's the groups who know the secret god handshakes, and the ones who know the really secret god handshakes, ones who go to heaven and ones who go to the best part of heaven. There's this idea that if you work hard enough at the thing the end result is total knowledge and total control. If you master the steps and the secrets, and memorize and follow the liturgy, you eventually rule a planet (or are married to someone who does). The entire cosmology of not just Earth but the entire universe is set as a battle between right and wrong and it's HEAVILY (as people have said) informed by strict gender norms. Male members of the line can become gods once they ascend to the highest part of heaven, as a woman your duty is to make as many men who can do this as possible and to train all your daughters to do the same. You're literally the loving barracks of the WC3 game that is the battle for all souls. My experiences among ex-Mormons is that many of them just cant take the idea that in the real rear end world of real thinking when you get to the highest levels of studying the things you like you don't gain any sort of mastery, you just gain the ability to ask harder questions with few answers. They get drawn to other types of systems that imitate that, which is one of the reasons (IMHO at least) so many of the young ex-Mormons become ultra hardcore MMO addicts or end up in the military. Also the church is really big on censorship in really scary ways. Their idea of continuing revelation (as they call it), while often used to realign the church with the times and remove things that they no longer believe, also is often used to whitewash and scrub the church history of all kinds of bad poo poo. A lot lot of ex-Mormons have this very violent knee jerk reaction to any form of censorship because they associate the act of telling people what's appropriate to say/do with the way the church used to treat them. To tie this around to internet critics this is why I hate Shad. Every time he talks about historical poo poo or how some people in some part of history actually did things as opposed to how people think they did them my reaction is always. "Motherfucker you're a part of a religion that literally made up a incredibly racists and false history of my people and then spent piles of money buying false historical artifacts and training lovely not-real historians to continually erase my history and tell me it doesn't exist and that I'm also Jewish."
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2017 04:59
|
|
