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Dias posted:basically the smash community hasn't so much stuck to their guns as they got handed a jammed trebuchet to replace it, rightfully threw it away and 15 years later got a new gun but they have no incentive to change by now i was just saying that even if you switched games around Brawl is Still Bad and what would've happened is that people would've likely just stuck to the previous game. so now Smash 3 is the new Melee and we're now arguing about why aren't people moving onto Smash 5 after Brawl came out
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Jul 16, 2017 08:13
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FZeroRacer posted:and i was never disagreeing with that correct notion and i'm not saying the games get switched around i'm saying if brawl was smash 4 instead of being, y'know, brawl, people would've probably played it and dropped melee as in, smash 4 is not melee but back in the day people would probably have accepted the changes as "it's just how it is" instead of it being too late with both games getting pretty much the same amount of competitive support
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Jul 16, 2017 08:14
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Despite all its problems Brawl pretty much did kill Melee, hardly anyone played it following Brawl's release. RoM was touted as the last major Melee tournament and if that had gone differently everyone probably would have moved on and there would be far less whining in this thread. Smash 4 definitely would have killed Melee.
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Jul 16, 2017 08:16
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Dias posted:and i'm not saying the games get switched around i'm saying if brawl was smash 4 instead of being, y'know, brawl, people would've probably played it and dropped melee my bad!
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Jul 16, 2017 08:17
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To be fair people going "i don't like melee" and people going "i don't like melee because they don't play the new game" are pretty distinct groups here, considering how the old farts here keep longing for the good old days of karate champ or whatever
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Jul 16, 2017 08:18
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Melee -> Brawl -> 4 is like if Marvel went 2 -> Infinite -> 3
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Jul 16, 2017 08:24
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KOF Stream is back up https://www.twitch.tv/on_vicio JPN 7 - 6 MEX, nobody's stopping the Koukou train e: violent kain finally put koukou to rest, 8-7 Ignis fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 08:25
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Melee, and melee players, are bad
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Jul 16, 2017 08:33
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shine choked before getting into top 64 and he's gonna choke in the exhibition
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Jul 16, 2017 08:56
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theGrooseofLegend posted:As a guy who plays Melee, I'm honestly curious: what are Melee's problems as a competitive game? What annoys you as a spectator or, if you were making a competitive platform fighter of your own, what would you fix about it? 1. Games are 7 minutes long. A single game can last longer than an entire best of 5 set is literally any non Smash game. 2. The same 4 characters (and players for that matter) are used and win everything out of what, 30+ characters? Obviously games will have tiers, but if the tier is that small it's problematic. 3. You have to use a made up rule set to play the game competitively. No items and like 5 out of 20 stages. If I want to play Street Fighter, it's plug and play. If I want to play Melee, I have to have The Discussion about whether or not items are used and what stages and all of that stuff. If you have to house rule the game, it intrinsically is competitively weak. 4. Players have to find Literal Broken controllers just to play the game 'competitively.' Your literal Evo Champion had to sit out a tournament recently because he couldn't find a controller that was sufficiently malfunctioning. If you have to play the game on a broken controller, your game isn't competitive. 5. Armada, Hungrybox, and M2K (maybe others I don't keep up with the scene) win like everything so it gets boring. Koop covered this pretty well, so read that post. 6. Community is a bunch of babies. Reread my point 3, then pair that with the knowledge that the kid who won EVO Brawl as ROB was shunned by the community for... playing the game by the rules the game shipped with and the tournament was formed under. Imagine a bunch of adults bullying a 14 year old kid because he didn't play the game the One True Way because internet bushido or something. 7. The characters are chosen for their mobility basically. Special attacks are only used if they jump, parry, chip, or throw items. Nothing exciting of captivating about the characters chosen or the way they are played. 8. I just don't enjoy the game of poking neutrals. The ledge dances are kind of cool, but not worth all of the other problems. It's technically sound if you ignore the fact that you have to play with like an 8th of the game that shipped, but it's so boring. In closing, Melee is trash that was formed by kids who grew up from environments where they could house rule checkers until they could win. However, it makes EVO a lot of money because there are a lot of people who watch it for whatever reason. I'm cool with EVO making money, so whatever, just keep it off Sunday.
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Jul 16, 2017 08:57
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I'm not familiar with Melee's intricacies, what's with the broken controller thing?
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Jul 16, 2017 09:10
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the looseness of the spring(s) in the analogue stick affects how far the stick does or doesn't bounce back when you flick it.
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Jul 16, 2017 09:13
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@happystupendous was hosting a Twitch showing the Barfights stuff going on. Team Wnf ended up winning out, this some good poo poo.
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Jul 16, 2017 09:21
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mango sentinel posted:Melee -> Brawl -> 4 is like if Marvel went 2 -> Infinite -> 3 this but also if capcom didn't put any money into any mvc tournaments. that's a really important detail to remember, nintendo doesn't add any pot bonuses or do much of anything, they're support of the scene is pretty much just them retweeting that an event is happening
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Jul 16, 2017 09:37
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Was the bar fights thing suppose to be streamed or what? E: ISDD vs Smug money match starting lamentable dustman fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 09:38
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It's being streamed on crosscounter.tv only (not on twitch), but the stream is reportedly highly unstable and constantly breaking. Stu's breaks sometimes but much less frequently.
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Jul 16, 2017 09:46
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Currently ongoing: SFV salty suite https://www.twitch.tv/rentahamster KOF salty suite https://www.twitch.tv/on_vicio Marvel salty suite https://www.twitch.tv/kevin_ha Tekken 7 salty suite https://www.twitch.tv/sbgcofficial Rewatch top 8: Guilty Gear Xrd Rev2 Aquaman the Injustice 2 Smash Melee Dias posted:Anyway, I like EVO because it equalizes legends and man. One thing both JWong and me have in common: we're watching EVO finals from a distance. Saoshyant fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 11:43
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It seems like Smash 4 corrects almost all of the issues you posted, except the time thing. If they replaced melee with Smash 4, and managed to get the match time down, do you think it would be accepted by the community? Edit: What happened with the ROB brawl thing? Megasabin fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 12:45
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Shadow225 posted:In closing, Melee is trash because I say so. That's nice, but Melee is a good game that lots of people enjoy, or have enjoyed, in basically every possible capacity. Pretending melee isn't "competitive" is basically you screeching "NUH UH" while burying your head in the sand so you don't have to acknowledge over 15 years of people playing it competitively or otherwise. Megasabin posted:If they replaced melee with Smash 4, and managed to get the match time down, do you think it would be accepted by the community? Smash will never be fully accepted by a certain group of people, because there will always be something for them to complain about. If it isn't the game, it's the people playing it. If it isn't the people playing it, then it's their inability to accept that some folks just like playing a game they don't like. When you're dealing with people who spend more time whining about fighting games they don't like, rather than actually playing the ones they do, that's what you can expect. That's okay because there's still a ton of people playing a ton of fighting games, Melee included, and they're still having fun. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 12:57
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Countblanc posted:because the non-melee smash games are completely different. the closest modern melee-esque game, Project: M, actually had a ton of crossover between modern and classic smash players and had bigger turnout than Melee at some major tournaments before it got... cancelled? C&D'd? they were actually completely tight-lipped about it, but either way the game is now basically the purview of locals. There's a Smash game on Wii U
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Jul 16, 2017 13:43
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I grew up playing smash and I had a bunch of people close to me that played it competitively when I was in college but that doesn't mean I cant acknowledge that melee is absolute trash and extremely unfun to watch.
Cao Ni Ma fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 13:44
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Are there supposed to be any announcements today other than the final fight guy they're probably putting in SFV Weren't people saying something about a Guilty Gear character in Tekken
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Jul 16, 2017 13:48
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sharrrk posted:this but also if capcom didn't put any money into any mvc tournaments. that's a really important detail to remember, nintendo doesn't add any pot bonuses or do much of anything, they're support of the scene is pretty much just them retweeting that an event is happening Oh no!!! gently caress I love corporate sponsorship!!!!!!
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Jul 16, 2017 13:49
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I hope I can get home in time to catch BB today, I recently bought that game on deep discount and quickly realized I'll never actually learn it but I wanna see what top players look like at the game
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Jul 16, 2017 13:51
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In Training posted:There's a Smash game on Wii U It was kinda late to the Wii U party, and did nothing to reinvigorate interest in the system. It's a fine game, but people have preferences and stuff.
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Jul 16, 2017 13:53
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I do agree with the people saying that at least the Melee folks stick to their guns and just agreed to keep playing the game they love, in a just world the top billed event at Evo would be Super Turbo, forever and ever
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Jul 16, 2017 13:55
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Shadow225 posted:1. Games are 7 minutes long. A single game can last longer than an entire best of 5 set is literally any non Smash game. I can't believe I used to think this way.
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Jul 16, 2017 14:21
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I can't believe four years later people still feel a need to wax poetry for or against Melee. Nobody cares at this stage if it's a fighting game or not, if it's good or not, or even if you watch it or not. Any sane adult who doesn't like it just tunes into any of the other main events or side tournaments. Life is too short, have fun, etc.In Training posted:in a just world the top billed event at Evo would be Vampire Savior, forever and ever Took the words out of my mouth, brother.
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Jul 16, 2017 14:30
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Shadow225 posted:3. You have to use a made up rule set to play the game competitively. No items and like 5 out of 20 stages. If I want to play Street Fighter, it's plug and play. If I want to play Melee, I have to have The Discussion about whether or not items are used and what stages and all of that stuff. If you have to house rule the game, it intrinsically is competitively weak. This stuff is funny because the reason I don't like melee was that my first real experience with it was in college with a bunch of neck beards who set it up in a common area and threw fits whenever they lost or people didn't play it 'right'. #6 is especially hosed up but it also makes sense considering the kind of people who really got into it.
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Jul 16, 2017 14:36
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Smash 4 is fun to watch, looking forward to that today
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Jul 16, 2017 14:50
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 Smash 4 is pretty good and doesn't come with a lot of the Melee baggage so i'm always pretty up on it. Putting Melee at the end of Saturday was a pretty smart move since the stubborn bullshit about how long each match should take doesn't get in the way of any other games also trying to run. Plus I know a guy who plays upper level Smash 4 and he showers at least twice a month whether he needs to or not so that puts him a step above those top 5 Melee guys. Commissar Ken fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 14:59
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Hungrybox is a cool guy and he plays Jigglypuff of all things in the face of a thousand Foxes.
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Jul 16, 2017 15:05
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45min to Mahvel, luckily it airs almost at noon here so no early Sunday morning for me.
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Jul 16, 2017 15:06
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Saoshyant posted:I can't believe four years later people still feel a need to wax poetry for or against Melee. Nobody cares at this stage if it's a fighting game or not, if it's good or not, or even if you watch it or not. Any sane adult who doesn't like it just tunes into any of the other main events or side tournaments. Life is too short, have fun, etc. Nah the community being bitchmade about their lifestyle game seeps into every other aspect of melee
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Jul 16, 2017 15:08
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RBX posted:One is a million years old and pretty figured out and the other isn't? How is that hard to understand. I played Pokemon Red however many years ago. It was a great game but I never want to see or play it again. This is really dumb. ST and 3S are much more interesting games to watch than USF4 and SF5. This includes the dumbshit that those old games had. Shadow225 posted:I'm cool with EVO making money, so whatever, just keep it off Sunday. They did, and everyone is still complaining. And I bet these same guys are gonna complain when Smash 4 is on today. Smash 4 doesn't have any of the other things you said (other than the time thing) but still gets the same hate. It's the thing fivergears4reverse said.
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Jul 16, 2017 15:29
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There's supposed to be an Infinite exhibition match after top 8 for UMVC3. Not that anyone cares, really. Actually, why the gently caress didn't they do the DBFZ thing and run beta tournaments? Capcom be dumb as gently caress.
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Jul 16, 2017 15:36
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So the Injustice 2 finals sucked? Isn't that what happens to every NRS game, any hype and goodwill the games have accumulated just deflate due to lovely EVO debut, and then no one gives a poo poo until the next game
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Jul 16, 2017 15:39
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I hope this isn't the last time I hear Shuma's theme
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Jul 16, 2017 15:39
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Dias posted:There's supposed to be an Infinite exhibition match after top 8 for UMVC3. Not that anyone cares, really. Actually, why the gently caress didn't they do the DBFZ thing and run beta tournaments? Capcom be dumb as gently caress. Because they knew they wouldn't get the numbers.
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Jul 16, 2017 15:40
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Doorknob Slobber posted:This stuff is funny because the reason I don't like melee was that my first real experience with it was in college with a bunch of neck beards who set it up in a common area and threw fits whenever they lost or people didn't play it 'right'. #6 is especially hosed up but it also makes sense considering the kind of people who really got into it. Yeah Melee came out when I was in college, and a little community sprung up around it. My friends and I were obsessed with Smash 64, we played it constantly and were curious about the new game. But we were dirty fun-havers who played 2 v 2 or 4-player free-or-all, using any and all stages, often with items on. The Melee people only played 1 v 1 no items and were really anal about it so we stuck with 64. Personally I'd be way more into competitive Smash if they'd embrace the craziness more. In Smash-specific tourneys you'll see 2v2 team tournaments and stuff, which is a lot of fun to watch.
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