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i don't think anyone is talking about them.
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Jul 16, 2017 16:52
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Rex-Goliath posted:Non-competes make it so that companies can't just buy up all of a competitors IP by throwing money at the problem. It's only really enforced once you get to upper level employees There is something called "patent law" that's supposed to protect IP --- if that's an issue, they can take the other company to court. And there has been news stories of non-competes being enforced against basically entry-levelish construction workers
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Jul 16, 2017 16:52
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OctaMurk posted:perhaps you should consider that like everyone else in this thread, I think the Idaho law is lovely for that reason and others, and I have been talking about regular non-compete agreements that tend to be non-enforceable or strictly limited ok regular ol non competes are still poo poo and your desire to argue for them reveals you as insanely out of touch no entry level manager applying to a job for 40k a year is going to lobby the employer for an attorney and risk ending the hiring process right then and there; and having the luxury to turn down an offer because you din't like the non-compete makes you the exception, not the rule.
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Jul 16, 2017 16:53
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Dick Trauma posted:For those of you too young to remember Watergate a 1973 column by Art Buchwald describes pretty much the entire Trump playbook for dealing with his endless shitshow. See how many Trumpista excuses you can spot in this list. Well, that's depressing.
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Jul 16, 2017 16:54
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TheScott2K posted:It's really bizarre how "pay people more" isn't even on the table as an option for so many companies.
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Jul 16, 2017 16:54
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Mystic Mongol posted:Whoah, are 8 tracks and salmon suits back in again? Because if Geno's steaks are any good it must be thirty loving years ago. You think people were listening to 8 tracks thirty years ago you poor old.
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Jul 16, 2017 16:54
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You know, I've been wondering: How many US government agencies are currently without a head?
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Jul 16, 2017 16:55
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TheScott2K posted:It's really bizarre how "pay people more" isn't even on the table as an option for so many companies. there is an entire consulting industry developed around the quest to find ways to reduce turnover that don't involve increasing pay
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Jul 16, 2017 16:57
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tetrapyloctomy posted:I pretty much stopped looking around when I found Delasandro's. 
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Jul 16, 2017 16:57
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OctaMurk posted:Lmao you're being completely disingenuous at this point if you truly think most non competes occur in the kind of liberal-sanitized environments where these are these industry professionals sign agreement between equal parties afforded equal protection under the law with lawyers on retainer to review them, you're either woefully ignorant or an even more insipid kind of disingenuous. like, almost 20 percent of Americans are bound by NBAs, and 40 percent of Americans have signed one in the past Autism Sneaks fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 16:59
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empty whippet box posted:Well, that's depressing. How is that depressing? We know for a fact those excuses didn't actually work or save him.
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Jul 16, 2017 16:59
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cant cook creole bream posted:I too think that CEOs and other high ranking employees earn way to little. They are basically forced to abandon ship to sell trade secrets to the competition. So what you're saying is that labor is not a part of  Free Market Capitalism
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Jul 16, 2017 17:02
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The USA is an ultra right wing country compared to every other democracy except perhaps Australia. "Liberals" in America are basically conservatives who can tolerate blacks and gays. Actual progressives are hard to find.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:05
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OddObserver posted:There is something called "patent law" that's supposed to protect IP --- if that's an issue, they can take the other company to court. And there has been news stories of non-competes being enforced against basically entry-levelish construction workers Source? I haven't heard of that happening. Also it was already brought up the type of intellectual property being defended isn't covered under patent law- it's much softer stuff like client networks or takeaways from having access to restricted sets of data or things like that. Things that solely remain in someone's noggin but are only there because the company put forward the resources to cultivate it. Like I said- as far as I'm aware this legal definition is extremely narrow and I've run into very few cases where a company was able to successfully sue an ex employee for violating one. edit: I'll add that I think the practice of throwing NDAs at everyone and making empty threats with them should be abolished. I was simply pointing out that there IS a niche purpose for NDAs PIZZA.BAT fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 17:07
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TheScott2K posted:It's really bizarre how "pay people more" isn't even on the table as an option for so many companies. Aren't most NCA's about keeping company secrets? Like, if Google is going to hire you away and the company you're at can't make a competitive offer... are they still at least entitled to know their secrets are kept secret? Or that you can't take clients? I've never given a lot of thoughts to NCA's so I'm legit asking.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:08
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empty whippet box posted:Well, that's depressing. Yeah but what about Chappaquiddick?
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Jul 16, 2017 17:09
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Autism Sneaks posted:YOU HAVE THE SPACE TO WRITE "AND" INSTEAD OF "&" YOU FUCKER Maybe Trump is so old he remembers when the letter '&' was still part of the alphabet.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:10
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OddObserver posted:There is something called "patent law" that's supposed to protect IP --- if that's an issue, they can take the other company to court. And there has been news stories of non-competes being enforced against basically entry-levelish construction workers Patents aren't the only type of IP, dude. They're meant to foster design and innovation in technology. When you get to the actual longer term implementation and running of stuff, then it starts going under trade secrets, which is a different kettle of fish, and decided on a state by state basis.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:10
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cant cook creole bream posted:These laws exists so that a large company can't just poach everyone from their competition to ruin them. In a mild form NCA are a reasonable market restriction. If IP protections aren't enough to keep a company's competitive edge in place, then the company's "secrets" aren't as novel as they think they are. Employers that aren't capable of keeping people don't need or deserve the government protecting them from their competition. Again, California.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:11
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Wait we have people in this thread straight up defending Hillary for getting debate questions and claiming that anyone who calls foul is a crybaby? Did I read that post right? I mean that's what the post said - did I interpret it incorrectly? Was it ironic? 
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Jul 16, 2017 17:12
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BonoMan posted:Aren't most NCA's about keeping company secrets? Like, if Google is going to hire you away and the company you're at can't make a competitive offer... are they still at least entitled to know their secrets are kept secret? Or that you can't take clients? Trade secrets are a whole other thing, and can be protected without telling labor "you can't work for X for Y years"
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Jul 16, 2017 17:12
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Kilroy posted:Wait we have people in this thread straight up defending Hillary for getting debate questions and claiming that anyone who calls foul is a crybaby? Did I read that post right? Generally if you want to address a post that exists outside the prevailing discussion of the last page or two it's advisable to quote said post.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:13
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Ague Proof posted:Yeah but what about Chappaquiddick? Slip that list to trump and see how long it takes him to start tweeting that.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:13
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Kilroy posted:Wait we have people in this thread straight up defending Hillary for getting debate questions and claiming that anyone who calls foul is a crybaby? Did I read that post right? Getting debate questions is to conspiring with Russia to steal the election like jaywalking is to armed robbery. They are both bad, but we are more focused on one than the other.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:18
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OctaMurk posted:perhaps you should consider that like everyone else in this thread, I think the Idaho law is lovely for that reason and others, and I have been talking about regular non-compete agreements that tend to be non-enforceable or strictly limited There's still a disturbing trend of "regular" non-competes filtering down from the C-suite and very high level engineering positions to line employees. There is no justification that a Jimmy John's Sandwich Artist or even an entry-level software developer is going to have access to the kind of top-level strategy and trade secrets that would make it worthwhile to lure them away, and those job categories have been seeing more and more noncompetes far from Idaho. It's just a way to lock people into jobs, and provide an end run around any kind of labor law enforceability: "so, your boss refused to give you any work beyond a menial level because 'bitches just get pregnant,' and harassed you constantly. What a shame. Sign this paperwork releasing us from all liability and we'll release you from your noncompete. Or you could take your chances in court; hope you've got a few years of savings!" The Idaho law isn't happening in a vacuum; it's just the extension of that trend. Space Gopher fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 17:18
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Gorilla Salad posted:Maybe Trump is so old he remembers when the letter '&' was still part of the alphabet. Dude always has exactly, EXACTLY enough space in his long-rear end tweets to use proper grammar (Crooked Hillary aside) and he... doesn't! It makes me want to subscribe to the nth dimensional chess theory of Trump, because it's like finding a loving watch on the beach of an island devoid of civilization
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Jul 16, 2017 17:18
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Dick Trauma posted:For those of you too young to remember Watergate a 1973 column by Art Buchwald describes pretty much the entire Trump playbook for dealing with his endless shitshow. See how many Trumpista excuses you can spot in this list. Mods, please rename me to Heterosexual Constitutionalist.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:19
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I was pretty horrified at having to sign a noncompete for my first job out of university. The company *had* used the clause in the recent past when one team up and quit and started making a competing project. They should be illegal for everyone in a company except those paid enough wages to put them in the top 1% of wage earners - i.e. guys who really do have indispensable knowledge and who are senior enough that competing companies are willing to pay them 2 years for them to do nothing if they do decide to switch jobs. CEO's yes. New graduates, no.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:24
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BonoMan posted:Aren't most NCA's about keeping company secrets? Like, if Google is going to hire you away and the company you're at can't make a competitive offer... are they still at least entitled to know their secrets are kept secret? Or that you can't take clients? No, they are just as prevalent in places like sales. I work in alcohol supplier sales and I've had to turn down a job because of a draconian non-disclosure clause to my contract that they sprung on me at the last minute. They tend to have this odd belief that if you do well that there's no loving way you developed those skills yourself and how dare you take your company-owned talents to a rival!?! Overwined fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 17:26
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TheScott2K posted:If IP protections aren't enough to keep a company's competitive edge in place, then the company's "secrets" aren't as novel as they think they are. Employers that aren't capable of keeping people don't need or deserve the government protecting them from their competition. It's not just about secrets. Imagine you are a giant company and some pesky startup starts taking your customers. Sure you coukd just buy them out, but that's a bit more costly then you'd like. Instead you poach most of their employees during an important phase. The competition can't fulfill their contracts, goes bankrupt abd uf you still care you can buy them out for a percentage of the original price. Overwined posted:So what you're saying is that labor is not a part of No I am for a heavily regulated market in general. cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 17:26
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Bishounen Bonanza posted:The USA is an ultra right wing country compared to every other democracy except perhaps Australia. "Liberals" in America are basically conservatives who can tolerate blacks and gays. Actual progressives are hard to find. Well that’s just not true. Social Democratic policies poll very well. We just can’t find politicians to enact them in good faith.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:27
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In a lot of the corporate world I think low level Non competes are just mostly inertia. In my experience nothing is run well enough for someone to twiddle their thumbs thinking "muahaha i will drive their wages down with these moves." I just think poo poo rolls down hill a lot of the time and none of them would ever be enforced. that said it's obviously worthwhile to look back at these things from a distance and see the effects they're having on the workforce.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:29
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:How is that depressing? We know for a fact those excuses didn't actually work or save him. There wasn't a vast right wing media in the early '70s. The world is different now, the oligarchs are much better organized.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:30
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I had a friend who worked part time in a department store threatened to be fired because he took a second job at a shoe store. They said it was a conflict of interest LMAO America is preposterous
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Jul 16, 2017 17:31
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cant cook creole bream posted:It's not just about secrets. Imagine you are a giant company and some pesky startup starts taking your customers. Sure you coukd just buy them out, but that's a bit more costly then you'd like. Instead you poach most of their employees during an important phase. The competition can't fulfill their contracts, goes bankrupt abd uf you still care you can buy them out for a percentage of the original price. The people working at the startup could have gone to work for the big company in the first place for reasons of stability, starting salary, and benefits. They chose the startup because they wanted to be on the ground floor of something they could have equity in. If the startup isn't giving equity, then they're directly competing with the big company on the same terms for employees, which is dumb and bad and they should go out of business. What a bad example that was.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:31
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cant cook creole bream posted:It's not just about secrets. Imagine you are a giant company and some pesky startup starts taking your customers. Sure you coukd just buy them out, but that's a bit more costly then you'd like. Instead you poach most of their employees during an important phase. The competition can't fulfill their contracts, goes bankrupt abd uf you still care you can buy them out for a percentage of the original price. What's the commensurate balance regarding regulation on the employer side to ensure they deserve their indentured servants?
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Jul 16, 2017 17:33
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Dick Trauma posted:For those of you too young to remember Watergate a 1973 column by Art Buchwald describes pretty much the entire Trump playbook for dealing with his endless shitshow. See how many Trumpista excuses you can spot in this list. Somehow I don't think we're going to see 15 trotted out that often this time.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:35
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Atomicated posted:Somehow I don't think we're going to see 15 trotted out that often this time. Just change "fool" to "woman"
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Jul 16, 2017 17:36
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TheScott2K posted:Just change "fool" to "woman" 
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Jul 16, 2017 17:37
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