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I think I'm a bit late in posting this, but I just want to appreciate this lets play. More seriously, I wanted to ask: With two characters being the embodiment of two authors who happened to have a set of rules for mystery novels and a third set mentioned elsewhere in the thread, are there any other famous sets collections of rules for mystery novels?
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Jul 15, 2017 22:46
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Raymond Chandler had a set:Raymond Chandler posted:1) It must be credibly motivated, both as to the original situation and the dénouement.
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Jul 15, 2017 22:50
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lobster22221 posted:More seriously, I wanted to ask: With two characters being the embodiment of two authors who happened to have a set of rules for mystery novels and a third set mentioned elsewhere in the thread, are there any other famous sets collections of rules for mystery novels? There's John Dickson Carr's "four golden maxims of Do's and Don't's". (Edit: oh wait, this probably was the third set you already mentioned) quote:1. The criminal shall never turn out to be the detective, or any servant, or any character whose thoughts we have been allowed to share, Carr mentions that a lot of people have written lists of rules, apparently including (aside from the ones we know from Umineko) Carolyn Wells, Douglas Thomson, Basil Hogarth, Howard Haycraft, and Dorothy L. Sayers. It seems he thought Knox and Sayers had wise approaches. Van Dine fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 22:56
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John Dickson Carr posted:Those are four golden maxims. In each one I believe. And each one you will find shattered-shattered admirably; shattered to bits, shattered by a mighty hammer-in the "best" detective novels, while the reader wishes to do nothing but applaud. Because they are not really rules; they are only prejudices. I love this quote. Even with referencing Knox and Van Dine's rules, Umineko doesn't fully follow them, and the rejection of these as absolute rules is a great attitude. Thanks for the information
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Jul 15, 2017 23:10
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Happy Birthday, Ziegdame! 
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Jul 16, 2017 06:44
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ZiegeDame posted:It's me. Thanks for noticing. Happy birthday! 
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Jul 16, 2017 13:13
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Happy belated birthday, Ziegedame!
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Jul 16, 2017 16:40
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yeah, happy bday, mine's only a couple days off yours (tomorrow)
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Jul 16, 2017 18:41
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Van Dine posted:Carr mentions that a lot of people have written lists of rules, apparently including (aside from the ones we know from Umineko) Carolyn Wells, Douglas Thomson, Basil Hogarth, Howard Haycraft, and Dorothy L. Sayers. It seems he thought Knox and Sayers had wise approaches. I was curious what Sayers' were, since I hadn't seen them, but it might be that he's just referring to the Detection Club Oath, which she might have written. (There seems to be some discussion as to whether it was written by her, G.K. Chesterton, or both jointly.) It might be worth noting that several writers from that era, including Carr, Knox, Sayers, Chesterton, and Agatha Christie, were members of that club, an organization which still exists today. The oath is something like the following: Detection Club Oath posted:The Ruler shall say to the Candidate: (from https://cburrell.wordpress.com/2007/09/10/oath-of-detection/ since lord knows I can't remember the entire thing)
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Jul 16, 2017 19:09
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It occurred to me this series can be interpreted as an allegory or didactic. Denying witches is a lot like denying the belief in higher powers that religious people have. A scientific determinist believes that every phenomenon has an explanation based on laws of nature, even if it is not understood, while a religious person might attribute these phenomena to gods and call them proof that gods exist. Using science to explain these phenomena debunks these proofs of god's existence. The existence of a scientific explanation for phenomena is akin to each Game Master having to make mysteries that can be explained by the detective side. This series asks, is it right to deny these beliefs? Belief can be positive. To Maria and Ange it gave comfort and allowed them to be happy even when facing the worst of life. Maria's belief that her father is the Holy Ghost made her feel normal, and even more that that, special. Ange's belief in the demon girls and Maria made her feel as if she had friends she could talk to and have fun with. The belief in the afterlife (the golden land?) means that the dead (of the Rokkenjima incident) live on. Religious people when sick take comfort in knowing that others are praying for them, and that god loves them. I propose that the love referred to in this game is respecting the beliefs of others and not challenging them needlessly. It's similar in intent to a white lie or the lies we tell children, like not revealing to Maria how the candy got under the cup. Will has this love, though the intellectual rapist certainly doesn't. However, beliefs can be harmful and sometimes they must be denied. In this series explanations are beliefs. Beato's explanations of magic are gruesome at times and I think Battler gives good reasons for denying them in the first 3 about disrespecting the dead, but it's been a while so I've forgotten. The detective who no longer exists made an explanation about an affair between Natsuhi and Kinzo which was harmful to their characters. Battler's motivation for denying them is not just because they are false, but because they are hurtful. In reality, the belief that homosexuality is unnatural is harmful, to the point that people kill others for it. Cults lead people into a web of false beliefs that entraps them, stranding them from reality. The belief that alternative medicine can cure all leads to needless death. But alternative medicine does provide comfort to those who believe in it (even if it is placebo). If they use alternative medicine alongside actual medicine, they are causing no harm, but if they can afford only one and choose the alternative, that is when they must be denied. Every didactic contains a message. The message is to deny with love. Deny the harmful, and permit the good. Witches are real.
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Jul 16, 2017 19:53
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I love you unreal witches.
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Jul 16, 2017 19:55
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An addendum: it seems like Battler's achieved this love at some point, I mean have you seen him denying witches lately? Well, it could also just be his incompetence.
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Jul 16, 2017 21:03
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Arbitrary Number posted:An addendum: it seems like Battler's achieved this love at some point, I mean have you seen him denying witches lately? Well, it could also just be his incompetence. He took "love thy enemies" and applied it wrong. Incompetence.
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Jul 16, 2017 21:20
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ZiegeDame posted:
As do I! Which was why I wasn't in the thread yesterday. I was busy with birthday things.
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Jul 16, 2017 22:06
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 BGM: Le 4 Octobre  "It's not going to leave a mark, is it? Talk about merciless." "...Did you say something, Jessica?" "O, of course not...! I've already, uh, learned my lesson, okay?!"Lion, who had apparently been chatting with the adult siblings, spun around with a smile and stared at Jessica. Looks like the older sibling's firmly in control around here.  "...Those are some sharp ears. I think I finally get this Lion person." "Yeah, yeah, yeah! Those strangely keen instincts have always been there! And on top of that, adults always seem to love our Successor-sama! I'm always compared against this kid, at home and at school!" "Come to think of it, Lion was the student council president for both middle school and high school. And the head of the badminton team too." "So everywhere you go, you get compared to Lion, and it doesn't match up too well for you." "I said it as soon as I got into middle school. Our Successor-sama was already the vice-president of the student council. I said 'if you're planning to become council president next year, that'll just put more pressure on me, so stop it!' But the next year rolls around, and here comes the announcement of candidacy followed by a landslide election! Same thing happened in high school! I said 'please, just give it a rest this time' when our Successor-sama was already the vice-president! And again, our Successor-sama becomes the council president and a senior at that same time! Dad was oh so proud! Mom kept saying 'now you make sure you do your best as the little sister', over and over and over again!! Nngyaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!" "But even so, you were still proud to be Lion's little sister, weren't you?" "I, i, it's not like I ever thought of it that way! Nope, never...!!" "It can be tough to be compared against perfection. Still, other people are other people, and you are you. There's no need to feel dwarfed. You should live the way you want to with all you've got." "Of course! But Mom and the others are always going on about how I need to follow in Ushiromiya Lion's footsteps as the younger sibling. They keep telling me to go join the student council, to go play badminton..." "You don't play in a band, do you?" Apparently, she's keeping it a secret from her family. Interesting. People often like to place the blame for various things on their family and how they were raised, but this girl called Jessica always likes doing the same thing, even in a different world and a different family. It's admirable that she has such a true and constant interest in something. "I loved it. That 'pettan, pettan' song. That 'tsui, tsui' song." "Wah, wah, wah!! Shh, shh, shh!!"Nothing wrong with the extraordinarily accomplished sort, like Lion, but kids who act their age do have their charms. "That's the best way to go through life. Enjoy your youth to the fullest." "Th, thanks."Apparently, no one had ever told Jessica that they approved of how she lived, and the direct way Will had put it made her turn red and hang her head in embarrassment. "I want to ask you two now." "The same thing you just asked Maria-chan?" "...Well, you can see how much Maria-chan likes witches and the occult. For her, Beatrice is a symbol to be admired, like an anime heroine. She believes every little thing is some sort of prank caused by a witch's magic." "You are an adult. And the fact that you never say this to Maria is also very adult of you." "Of course. Childhood dreams only happen when you're a kid. I think respecting that precious experience is an adult's responsibility." "Looks like the two of us will get along well."George's position was that Beatrice was nothing more than a fairy tale. However, that phrase...'respecting a child's dreams is the adult thing to do'... That might be worthy of further scrutiny. When she got a candy from Beatrice by magic, Maria probably got excited and told George and the others. Then, the adults followed his lead and positively went along with her story 'as adults should'. However, there's another way this sort of reaction could occur, other than an adult's response to a child's claims. For example, it could be an inferior's response to the claims by someone of superior rank. If Kinzo, tyrant of the Ushiromiya family, claimed that Beatrice existed and had revived, perhaps the other members of the family would positively go along with his story 'as his inferiors should'. Though Beatrice only appeared directly in front of a limited number of people, it's probably safe to say that the concept of her existence penetrated deeply within the Ushiromiya family, even among those who had never seen her.  It would be necessary to transform the concept of that character from an imaginary fairy tale into reality. So, a person attempting to do this would need to perform something that could only conceivably be done by magic. And that something... was the series of witch incidents, starting with the window-opening pranks played by Beatrice the Elder... and ending with the final closed room murder. Beatrice the Elder referred to this, saying that the anti-magic power filling the mansion would be weakened bit by bit the more she made her existence known. Beatrice. Why are you willing to go so far to make all others accept your existence? Because the imaginary becomes the truth if everyone acknowledges it? Because at that moment, the being called Beatrice will be acknowledged and will become human? In that case, before Beatrice is acknowledged by all people, she's less than human. She's furniture. Why would furniture want to become human? It feels like this was the theme of the previous game. Because they want to gain the right.  ...It really is quite simple. It's directly connected to the reason the chick Beato was born in the first place. "...I see. I do understand, but it's complicated."  "I feel bad for saying this at Beatrice's funeral, but, truth be told, I don't know enough about Beatrice to explain her. My apologies." "As far as that goes, Jessica-chan does live here, so she might know a little more than I do. Speaking of which, have you introduced yourself to this gentleman yet, Jessica-chan?" "Nah, not yet. There's this idiot going around pinching people's butts, so I didn't really have the chance yet... ehehe..."A bit late, Jessica looked embarrassed for acting rudely in front of an unfamiliar guest. She cleared her throat and made a beautiful bow that didn't fit well with her normal attitude. She even lifted the corners of her skirt in a curtsy. "P, pleased to meet you. My name is Jessica. Allow me to welcome you to the Ushiromiya family on this splendid day... umm, I mean, please enjoy our hospitality... and..." "...Willard. Call me Will." "Huh? Huh? Wah-" "Wah, wah... waah..."Not expecting her greeting to be returned in such an old-fashioned and formal way, Jessica turned red and was unable to speak. However, Will had returned the greeting in what he thought was a perfectly serious way, so he didn't understand what was making Jessica's face glow. "Have I done something strange?" "No, no, I just didn't... ah, ahahaha..." "I want to hear what you know about Beatrice... Nn."A sparkle leaked around the edges of Will's right hand, which was grasping Jessica's hand. Looks like the theatergoing power is having its effect on Jessica. Didn't mean for that to happen. Oh well... "Beatrice, is it...? Well, I can tell you, but will you promise me something? Promise you won't laugh. Thinking about it now, it sounds more than a little crazy." "What is it you know? I won't laugh. Tell me." "S, sure... Umm, where should I start..." BGM: White Shadow You've heard of those, right? Almost all schools have a set of tall tales or ghost stories that get passed down. Like 'on some days, the piano in the music room will start playing by itself', or 'the skeleton in the science room dances around at night'. Everyone's heard of them. But of course, that doesn't mean they believe in them. The stories about Beatrice were the same. It was just one of those strange tales about our way-too-big mansion. The servants would sometimes talk about seeing things during their night patrols. Sometimes, I felt a bit annoyed about them turning my home into a place for ghost stories, but I didn't pay it any more attention than that. That's how little it mattered to me. So, during my normal, everyday life, I would completely forget about the name 'Beatrice'. Of course, when that huge portrait was first hung, it definitely felt creepy. Even I'd try not to meet her eyes after dark, so it's no surprise that the servants found it eerie. But that only lasted for a short while. We all walked by the portrait every day. We gradually got used to it, and eventually bored of it. I didn't really care anymore about the portrait of the mistress from Grandfather's delusions.   "Exactly. That's why every time the family came for a family conference, they'd always stand in front of that portrait and talk about Beatrice. So, I was reminded of it every year." "You really do like Beatrice, don't you? You've been in such high spirits ever since Grandfather had this portrait hung." "Huh? Where's Ange?" "She went back with Aunt Kyrie to take some medicine." "Her body really is frail. Totally the opposite of Battler." "She's the sort that gets sick whenever she's stressed. I also used to get sick on big holidays or trips." "Maria's really tough by comparison. She's been talking about Beatrice non-stop since we left Niijima. Don't you think she's taking this a bit too far?" "It's not so bad, right? It's normal for kids to have an active imagination. If a kid told you that she'd met Santa Claus, would you tell her she's a liar?" "...Well, of course I wouldn't go that far."Maria kept talking to the portrait as though it was an old friend. She promised to play with it later, as if she was talking to a living human. George, a man, seemed to think that this behavior from a younger member of the opposite sex was cute. But, to be perfectly frank... Jessica, who was the same sex as Maria, found this behavior a bit unpleasant, even though she realized that the other girl was younger. At one time, even I was fascinated by anime heroines and other fictional characters. However, Maria's behavior seems to signify something more direct than mere fascination. It's something more definite... more vivid. Am I the only one who notices something odd about her? I'll bet the others all notice too, but try to ignore it because of that adult dignity George nii-san is always talking about.  BGM: Steady Pace Until a second ago, Kinzo's children were complaining that eating lunch with their father would give them indigestion. But now that they knew he wasn't coming, they started grumbling about how he should at least spare the time to come down during the annual family conferences.  "Then let us begin lunch, everyone. I, Gohda, have made use of all my talent and experience to make sure that you guests, who have come from so far away, will be entirely satisfied with your meal..."No one's stomach would fail to rumble after hearing that from the Great Chef Gohda. By the time the splendid dishes were laid out, everyone had stopped talking about Kinzo's absence... It was now Ange's absence that was being discussed. Apparently, her stomachache had gotten so bad that both she and Kyrie could not make it to lunch.  "Poor thing. Gohda. Make sure you talk to Kyrie-san later and have some porridge made." "Thanks a bunch for the concern. Really sorry about this. Seems she just can't handle much stress." "That's how it is when they're young. They're cute, at least when they're not regurgitatin'." "George used to do that all the time. He really was frail, way back then. Right?" "Let's not talk about the past... It's not exactly a mealtime topic." "Uu-. Poor Ange. She doesn't get to eat this yummy food." "Yeah, poor girl. Let's make sure we play with her a lot when she gets better." "Uu-, can't. She can't play with me." "Wh, what are you talking about? Why?" "Because I'm gonna play with Beatrice, of course. So I can't play with Ange." "Play with Beatrice... You mean you're gonna go off on your own again to mumble to yourself and read some book?"Jessica slightly regretted that she hadn't been more tactful. However, she couldn't wipe away that uncomfortable feeling she got every time Maria talked about Beatrice, and that feeling slipped out through her words...  BGM: Witch in Gold (cembalo) Maria may be young, but she does know how to read a person's tone. She immediately burst out in anger, drawing the attention of everyone in the room... Normally, Rosa would have stopped her at this point. However, she happened to have gone to the bathroom at that moment. So, there was no one to calm Maria down... "Kihihihihi!! Poor Jessica, you're just a clump of the toxin! With Beato's weak magical power now, she'd burn to a crisp if she ever appeared in front of you! But she will appear before you eventually. Yes, in front of everyone else too!! Kihihihi, and then the door to the Golden Land will open!! But who knows if you'll be invited in? Of course, she will take me there, to the Golden Land! But not Jessica, not Jessica!! Not someone who makes fun of Beatrice, not an unenlightened, stupid, confused, filthy, toxin-stained human!! Kihihihihihihihihihihhihhihhihhi!!" "There was a theory about Maria having multiple personalities, wasn't there?" "Multiple personalities! Yeah, that probably describes it perfectly. Or else, maybe that was Maria's idea of an ideal personality." "You mean that thing about 'creating another self', the way you want to be...?" "Huh? How'd you know my motto?" "Don't think too hard on it. You'll just get a headache."That was something Jessica had once told Kanon. She had been talking about how anyone can create another 'self' in the image of the person they want to be. I think we heard those words somewhere near the beginning of the second game. Now that I think about it, some very interesting stuff's been around since very early on...  "True. Changing yourself means changing your environment. That's not easy to do." "So, my idea was to leave 'who I am now' be... and to create another 'self' to be the person I want to be." "You felt suffocated, forced to live the life of a rich family's daughter, and you thought up a 'self' that you wanted to be." "But I couldn't do anything outlandish at home, of course. Nothing fun about getting Mom to yell at me all the time. So, I made my plan. At home, I would obediently do as my parents said, but I would also create a second 'self' to do what I wanted." "At home, you did everything your parents told you, and outside, you did what you wanted. That's a good way to live. You should be proud." "Heheh, thanks... And, well, if there's something you really want to be, and you really work for it, it's easier to do than you'd think. I figured Maria was pretty much the same." "Sometimes, I think that's the person Maria really wants to be." "...As the youngest member of the family, she is adored, but not respected." "Every time she learns something, there's always someone in the family who already knows it. She doesn't get to show off her knowledge about anything. Whenever she does learn something new, we try to smile and praise her, but that might actually have hurt her." "So, Maria wanted to become an authority on something?"It's something that all young boys and girls, who want to shake off their childhood, think. It's not a bad feeling when you learn something new and your parents praise you. But when you realize that your parents already knew that thing, it sometimes feels like they're talking down to you. When a kid learns their one-digit times table, their parents will probably praise them. However, inconsiderate parents will sometimes ask mean questions, like 'then what is 11 times 11?' or 'what is 16 times 16?' or something similar. If that happens, the kid will lose his feeling of accomplishment and will start to feel as though he could never surpass his parents... "So, it's easy to guess why Maria got interested in the occult, something no one else knew about, and started learning more and more about it. I think the person Maria wants to be is an authority, on the occult who is respected by everyone." "And if she talked about the occult all the time during her everyday life, Rosa'd smack her. So, like you, she's been hiding this other 'self' most of the time." "That's what I think she's doing at times like this. Maybe I should say that this is her real self slipping through the cracks to cover up her normal self." "Actually, I've had some experience with that myself. I've thought at times it'd be nice to become a frail, secluded lady... so I'd pretend to cough a lot, and it sort of became a bad habit." "Because everyone would be nice to you if you started having coughing fits?" "Haha, no... Whenever the conversation turned to something I didn't like, or something that made me feel uncomfortable, I could do that to change the subject." "I see. And that's another 'self' you wanted to become." "Haha, I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell anyone about that."Then, just what is the 'other self' in Maria's case? An authority on the occult who can out-argue even adults? Or else, does it have to do with her relationship with witches? Either way, denying Beatrice in front of Maria is clearly taboo. In her search for something more than her everyday life, Maria had found it in Beatrice and inside herself. Then, is going to the Golden Land with Beatrice... Maria's wish? ...  "And you said there was no way Beatrice could exist?" "Something like that. 'If she exists, then just let me see her'. Of course, once Maria started crying, I realized I'd gone too far." "And then?" "At the end of the family conference, I was the only one still upset. Maria acted as though nothing had happened. Instead, she went off somewhere on her own, and came back talking happily about how she had played with Beatrice again." "Everyone, me included, decided not to contradict her. By that time, it was best to just accept it and ignore it." "Is that all you have to say about the family conference?" "About the conference, yes. What I wanted to talk about was what happened after the conference was over and everyone left." BGM: None If Maria had just stayed mad, we'd have made up with each other and I could've put it all behind me. But since Maria got over it, it felt like I was the only one unsatisfied...  "Oh, Milady. Why the gloomy face?" "...Oh, it's you. It's nothing important. Did everyone make it back okay?" "If they're still on schedule, they should have reached the Niijima airport by now. You've done your part well, Milady." "I haven't done anything. It's you servants who've done a great job." "...Are you still upset over that fight you had with Maria-sama yesterday?" "Nn, sorta." "She's just a kid, right? It's not something you need to worry about, all grown up and in high school." "You think that's just a kid's nonsense?" BGM: Minute Darkness "See, even you call her 'sama'."Beatrice is the name of Grandfather's mistress, the person he's still infatuated with. I realize that, as a servant, Kumasawa-san can't speak of her indiscreetly. Still, that's now become the name of the fictitious witch who lives in the mansion, and it's almost normal for people to call her 'sama'. "Beatrice is just a ghost story created by the adults to stop us from wandering into the forest. Maria just thought it was interesting one day and decided to pretend it was true." "Hohoho... You'll end up cursed if you say such things. After all, Beatrice-sama 'exists'." "Come on, we both know that isn't true. I don't need George nii-san to tell me not to make a fuss about Santa not existing. But that doesn't mean Santa actually exists." "...You'll find you're wrong there, Milady." "Wrong...?" "Oh yes. The gods do dwell in all things. In the same way, Beatrice-sama dwells in this mansion. Like the gods, Beatrice-sama will do you no harm if you respect her. As you say, it'll be as though she doesn't exist... However, if you ever fail to show proper respect, her curse will descend upon you. Of course, this doesn't apply only to Beatrice-sama." "Heh, if there's a curse, let's see it. I'd just love to meet her." "M, Milady...! You mustn't say such things...!" BGM: None  "You were splendid today..." "Shannon, Gohda-san. You guys know about Beatrice, right?" "...Huh?" "W, well, I do know of her, of course. Why do you ask?"The two looked at each other. They looked like a pair who had just heard a clueless person suddenly utter a forbidden word...  "Let's have it straight. Does she exist? That ghost?!" "...If it's a question of whether she exists or not, I would have to say she doesn't... probably." BGM: Lure  "And why do you say she 'exists'?! Have you ever met her?" "I, I've never met her directly, but..."Shannon talked in detail about how she would sometimes feel a strange presence or see a silhouette while doing the midnight rounds. And each time she started, Jessica would cut her off, saying she must have seen it wrong or been mistaken. "You haven't met her either, right, Gohda-san?!" "O, of course... well..."He was being very evasive. Even a man as big as Gohda was apparently unable to deny the existence of someone he'd never met. This really didn't sit well with Jessica. She was herself a resident of this mansion. They were acting as though someone else, someone she didn't know, was living here. Of course she didn't like it. "Nn, wait a sec. Tell me that one more time." "Huh? Y, you mean...?" "Th, the story about the VIP room...?"Gohda and Shannon had been recounting several ghost stories about Beatrice. One of those drew a reaction from Jessica... "Yeah, that one. Sounds pretty cool...!"Gohda and Shannon glanced at each other. They hadn't been trying to talk about anything 'cool'.   "The one about how Beatrice-sama returns to the VIP room every morning at 2:00, so you mustn't go near it?" "Yeah, that's it. Pretty cool. All the other stories are about people saying they heard or saw something they thought was Beatrice, but this one isn't. This one says that, if you go to the VIP room at 2:00, you can actually meet Beatrice-sama...!" "W, well, I, I wonder..." "Milady... They say that a servant who spoke ill of Beatrice-sama was cursed. Furthermore, the VIP room is Beatrice-sama's room..." "...Even you, Milady, should probably reconsider..." "The VIP room is locked now, right? Where's the key?" "Was that key... in the key box...?" "I, I think Genji-sama keeps that key by his own chair." "The master key can open it, right? Let me borrow yours." "Th, that... I cannot do that...!" "Milady, you mustn't approach an ill-omened place without reason..." "Hold it, don't you go calling my house ill-omened. Anyway, I've made up my mind. If you can't give me your master key, there's still that key for the VIP room, right? Let me borrow it." "...M, Milady..."To Jessica, the expressions worn by the pair felt more like an ill omen than anything else did. To Jessica, the ill-omened thing wasn't the witch or the VIP room. It was 'them', Maria and the others who believed in witches. In the end, Jessica forced them to agree, and she made them bring her the key to the VIP room...  BGM: None "Pretty much. Still, I wonder why I was so stubborn about it. It must have been because of my fight with such a little girl."...Of course, the weather just had to be terrible on that particular night. To be honest, I slightly regretted sticking my nose into something so pointless. But I'd already said so much, and even borrowed the key from them. I couldn't just go to Shannon the next day, let her ask me how it went, and answer 'well, I got scared so I gave up, tehehe...' Normally, I go to sleep long before 2:00 AM. If Mom found me wandering the corridors at that time of night, she'd definitely yell at me. So, I waited in my room, staring at the hands of my clock as it ticked closer to 2:00. Outside, the rain was incredible, and the wind strong. The swaying, rustling trees were particularly eerie.  BGM: At Death's Door ...The Ushiromiya mansion is huge. Honestly, I can't think of the entire mansion as my own house. As Mom says, the hallways of the Ushiromiya mansion should be treated like public roads. In other words, my own room is part of my home, but the hallways and the rooms I don't usually enter are 'outside'. So, while part of me felt that this VIP room ghost story was ridiculous, the other part of me was so creeped out that it kept trying to convince itself that the first part of me was right. Only 10 minutes left 'til 2:00. If I want to be inside the VIP room at 2:00, I need to go in there before then.  Nothing's going to happen. I know that. It'll just be a stupid waste of time for a few minutes. I touched the doorknob to the door of my room, and was startled by how unpleasantly cold it was. As long as I stayed in this room, I could laugh off anything. After all, this was MY room. But it wouldn't be like that in the hallway. That's... outside my territory. And the doorknob, the barrier between the two, is ice-cold... ...Idiot... What are you so scared of, me? You aren't taking Shannon's, Gohda-san's, or maybe Kumasawa-san's gossip seriously, are you...? 
Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 12:45
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I want to marry Will. Or at least keep him in a secret house in the backyard.
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Jul 17, 2017 15:36
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It really quite sad to see characters come so close to getting Maria, but not quire making it. Jessica's points about creating "another self" (I don't really think "true self" is correct here as that's a knotty psychological question) and of latching on to something no one else knows about in order to feel special or not so inferior are really on point, but Jess is too weirded out by the witch persona to make the next leap in solving a problem like Maria: getting that a lot of that other self is based in the seething resentment at her situation- at being alone, at being left alone by her mom and being beaten if she makes a fuss, and in this episode, at people trashing on the one point of stability and unambiguous happiness in Maria's life (her visits with Beatrice). That Beatrice visits is really important to Maria, in ways she cannot articulate- it's far, far more than an infatuation with a cartoon character, it's equivalent to religious fervor- but Maria can't articulate that, due to, well, being a kid (and the abuse and implications of neurodivergency don't help). It's just "I believe in Beatrice, and if you don't believe in her too, forget you." Which brings us to the other really good point made:ProfessorProf posted:
It's "adult" to let a kid be a kid- it's a sentiment you don't see put in such plain and fair terms, but it's really kinda true, isn't it? Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny- all dreams, but most of us have fond memories attached to them, and so we attempt to keep those memories alive for our own kids as much as we can; this is why it's so viscerally uncomfortable to see Erika go after Maria's belief in Beatrice last episode, under the auspice that "it's a lie, and all lies are bad"- it might be a lie, but so what? It makes Maria happy, and isn't really hurting anyone, at least in that room. (The greater issue of Beatrice being a belief that's uncomfortable for other people is only a discussion that can be had on a level of respect for both parties that only adults are capable of... or should be.) But Kids don't really do that, at least not most of them- did you catch that Erika's defense at being called out for her behavior is "But I'm a kid too"? And yeah- making GBS threads on other people's beliefs because it's not a carbon copy of their own is what kids* do, you see it all the time in the playgrounds. You see it here, in Ange's rejection of Beatrice because "her mama says it ain't so", and Maria's reaction by just pretty much severing all ties- it's not something you can blame either party for happening, because neither one is grown up enough to see that what they're doing is hurtful to the other. A telling (and somewhat  ) observation of that is that the Maria that Teen Ange sees in her mind, 12 years later and with the benefit of having read the diary in which Maria articulated all her stuff, is much more open-hearted, communicative, and supportive than the "real" Maria likely ever was.*Although, for the amount of alleged adults both on and off the internet who have the same problem, perhaps I should say what the "immature" do 
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Jul 17, 2017 16:05
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ProfessorProf posted:That was something Jessica had once told Kanon. She had been talking about how anyone can create another 'self' in the image of the person they want to be. I think we heard those words somewhere near the beginning of the second game. Now that I think about it, some very interesting stuff's been around since very early on... "Hello, readers! I, Ryukishi07, the author of this story, would like to remind you that I actually did put a bunch of foreshadowing in. In fact, you may want to go back and check that at this point! Thank you for reading Umineko." OK, hands up, everyone who thinks there will be nothing strange in the VIP room.
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Jul 17, 2017 16:23
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idonotlikepeas posted:OK, hands up, everyone who thinks there will be nothing strange in the VIP room. I think something's gonna go down. She told Shannon, after all.
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Jul 17, 2017 17:08
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I'd just like to be the first the point out the obvious that Lion doesn't appear anywhere in any of Jessica's flashback, so that should really be the final answer on what world these exposition zone stories come from. Of course, there's also no mention of Kanon from Jessica so far and if that continues there's gotta be something up. This has got to be the 1985 conference, right? Since Kinzo is conveniently not making any appearances, and if I recall from episode 5 Kanon would have been on duty that weekend. Also, did Jessica just admit that her asthma from episode 2 was complete bullshit?
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Jul 17, 2017 17:45
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Jessica's asthma, in my opinion, isn't entirely fake. She definitely has medicine for it that Nanjo gives her in the earlier episodes. I think the comment is more that she fakes it from time to time to get her way in certain situations.
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Jul 17, 2017 19:05
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idonotlikepeas posted:OK, hands up, everyone who thinks there will be nothing strange in the VIP room. It's me. I'm in the VIP room.
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Jul 17, 2017 23:29
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bman in 2288 posted:It's me. I'm in the VIP room. Nah man it's one of us witches instead.
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Jul 17, 2017 23:47
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she's gonna get locked in and ahaha.wav'd at.
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Jul 18, 2017 00:22
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bman in 2288 posted:It's me. I'm in the VIP room. Be nice to Jessica when she gets in. She's had a disappointing life and she's going to blow up soon.
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Jul 18, 2017 00:37
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Jessica's life is suffering. She's stuck being compared to an ideal successor regardless whether or not they exist.
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Jul 18, 2017 00:39
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George, you're OK. Thank you for being the only alleged adult that doesn't try to tell a little kid that
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Jul 18, 2017 00:54
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There's a gigantic mackerel in there. Tired Moritz posted:Jessica's life is suffering. She's stuck being compared to an ideal successor regardless whether or not they exist. A female successor with all the socially desirable characteristics typically assigned to male heads of household. Lion's androgyny could even be interpreted as sexless or neutered, rendering them unthreatening to whomever has invented this fantasy. Lion and whoever caused their creation bring up a lot of conflicting and ugly feelings for me. I really struggled with my gender identity when I was their age and Jessica's. A lot of it was from misogyny and homophobia in my everyday life. To some extent, I internalized a lot of those ugly messages and really hated myself for being born a woman. I tried to suppress the traits both physical and mental that signified the "weak" parts of femininity. Of course, taking on any typically masculine behaviors, including dress, really only made fitting in harder. After all, the same people who hate women and anyone not straight enough will also feel threatened by someone "encroaching" on their territory, as though my posture and dress could've ever let me share in the power and authority held by men in the community. Lion's gender hasn't been given, but given all that I went through back then, I can't help but read them as a girl stuck in the same place I was. Are they questioning? Are they nonbinary or male? Or are they unhappily self-loathing and female and trying to efface all those female parts of themselves that Kinzo and their parents hate? Lion must be a clear mirror for anyone who has struggled with this particular identity question.
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Jul 18, 2017 01:03
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You make a good point, we don't really know how Lion feels about being head of this lovely family. I also think that the ambiguity of Lion's gender is meant so symbolize something within the Ushiromiya family, but I can't put my finger on it. For the record, I'm willing to believe that Lion's male, and the entirety of my argument is "Kinzo". idonotlikepeas posted:Be nice to Jessica when she gets in. She's had a disappointing life and she's going to blow up soon. It was me, I blow up the entire house by dropping the mother of all Stone Cold Stunners on Jessica as soon as she walks through the door.
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Jul 18, 2017 01:18
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I feel you, Pool. 
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Jul 18, 2017 01:48
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Lion's gender hasn't been given, but given all that I went through back then, I can't help but read them as a girl stuck in the same place I was. Are they questioning? Are they nonbinary or male? Or are they unhappily self-loathing and female and trying to efface all those female parts of themselves that Kinzo and their parents hate? I'm right there with you. When I was a kid, I used to sit in the park after school and stealthily imitate the guys that I saw walking past me, taking mental notes on how they carried themselves, down to minute gestures. Back then I didn't know what to call myself, and I let my self-hate guide the process because that was all I could understand. I think it's even more confusing for Lion during their time period: there really are no visible, positive models for being gender nonconforming, or even the vocabulary to describe that experience. And I think in a lot of ways, that why we got Shannon and Kanon in the other versions of this world. I've been both of those archetypes at times, too.
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Jul 18, 2017 02:01
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Lion's gender hasn't been given, but given all that I went through back then, I can't help but read them as a girl stuck in the same place I was. Are they questioning? Are they nonbinary or male? Or are they unhappily self-loathing and female and trying to efface all those female parts of themselves that Kinzo and their parents hate? The feeling I get from Lion is that they're totally comfortable with who they are. And, somehow, have made everyone else around them comfortable with it, too. In other words, one of those lucky jerks who actually got away with bucking the gender binary instead of being relentlessly crushed by society. Yamada, though, is more likely to be in the position you're describing. Look at all this poo poo, even right in this update, about how "furniture" can't love. We've had this theme over and over again of people striving to view themselves as whole individuals... and failing. When something that seems to come so naturally to everyone around you completely eludes you, what other conclusion can you draw? Everyone else gets this and I don't, so there must be something wrong with me. I must be the one who's hosed up. Even the most introverted individuals require some point of contact with other people, and if you're totally cut off from that, what is there for you? Stories about witches and explosives, I guess. 
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Jul 18, 2017 02:21
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The other characters have engaged in varying levels of deception to shield their insecurities. I don't really read Lion as on the same level of "real" with the rest of the cast. Even the meta and pieces are more "real." Lion is totally someone's projection in my book, and as such, represents a gaping wound in someone's sense of identity and security.
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Jul 18, 2017 02:28
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I'm reading them as a kind of what-if story. Like, "what if Natsuhi hadn't been a horrible murderer and instead sucked it up and just raised a baby", maybe we have a different Rokkenjima with like 100% less murder in it. I don't know that we have enough data to say what interpretation is correct, though; your way of looking at it is totally valid. Hell, maybe it's both things at the same time. (I have a whole theory about that that I need to write up sometime.)
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Jul 18, 2017 02:42
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To me, Lion is a lot like the stories that people tell about how their life could have gone, if only XYZ. That's why the particulars of their relationships don't feel very fleshed out and why they exist so precariously, so obviously absent from their relative's most vivid memories. That's why there's nothing about how Kinzo's notorious toughness or misogyny affected them. The only thing that matters is that the most traumatic thing that happened to the Cliff Baby never happened, so everything is happy and good forever. I think they're totally that kind of projection that comes from wanting to escape from an identity you never wanted to have thrust upon you.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:27
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There will be an update tomorrow, but it won't be until afternoon. I have a video I need to record for it.
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Jul 19, 2017 05:47
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I was kinda hoping that Lion might be a fellow nonbinary person, but the excellent posts by Pool and others brings up the more likely interpretation of what's going on here. Intersectionality being what it is, these discussions on gender and self-loathing hit close to home... I appreciate that this story can bring up complex issues like these, and I find myself becoming more and more grateful at how personal this game gets. It's good stuff and I'm glad that this story exists.
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Jul 19, 2017 07:52
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  Video: The VIP RoomBGM: Lure Before we started that 'lights out' time, the hallways were brighter. But to avoid wasting energy or something like that, we'd started keeping the lights at night to a minimum. So, even though I was inside my own house, it was very obviously 'the middle of the night' here. If Mom found out that I was wandering around at a time like this to do a test of courage in the VIP room, which I'm not supposed to go in, I'd get in a lot of trouble. To make sure she didn't find out, I tried to hide my breathing and my footsteps. ...So, the silence felt unbelievably loud. Even though it was so quiet, that eerie sound of the wind was noisy. The sound of twigs rustling. The sound of some pillar in this old mansion creaking. What's that sound like a beak tapping against glass? Though it was so quiet, all of the little, suspicious sounds made it seem noisy. drat, I'm an idiot. Why couldn't I have brought a flashlight, at least? A flashlight to use inside my own home? Hah, that's even more idiotic... I mumbled this to myself, hoping it would drown out the sound of the wind just a little...  BGM: Eternal Chains The door to the VIP room. This was the VIP room, the room for important guests. However, as far as I knew, it had never been used before. None of the guests who came to this mansion... were important enough to be given use of this room. Though I'd been clutching the key all this time, it didn't feel warm at all. It still ruthlessly and icily tormented me. Or maybe that was a warning. 'If you go back to your comfortable room and hide in your bed, this night will pass like any other...' "...Don't mess with me. I can't give up after coming this far."Even though the key was freezing in my hand, telling me to go back... It slipped into the keyhole quite easily. All that's left... is to turn the knob... open it... and I'll be inside the VIP room. It's not like I've never been in the VIP room. Long ago, when I would often play hide-and-seek or go exploring, this room that I rarely entered had seemed unusual and exciting. However, I got in trouble for going in, and was told that this room was important, so one mustn't enter without reason. After that, they made a rule of locking up unused rooms, and I couldn't go in anymore. So, it's probably been several years since I've gone into the VIP room. In fact, it might be more than ten years since the last time. The inside of the room is probably different from how it was when I knew of it. Come to think of it, even then, I felt that there was something unsettling about this room... Slowly, I pushed the door open. It was light, and even after I let go of it, it kept opening by itself, as though beckoning me in... Beyond it... was a darkness as thick and heavy as ink... Even the dim light that peeked in from the corridor seemed bright in contrast. ...*gulp*. I stuck my head in, feeling about for the light switch next to the doorway. This was a horribly awkward and uncomfortable way to do it. All I really had to do was step inside and search for the switch from there. Unwilling to take even a single step into the room, I timidly stuck just my arm into the darkness and felt along the wall... "...There..."*click*  BGM: Lure However, once the light turned on, the darkness vanished in an instant. And there, exactly as it had been... as though not a thing had changed in all these years... was the VIP room. ...The curtain and bed cover might have been slightly different, and maybe the chairs and the like had changed too. Still, if I had to put it in words, I'd call it the feel. The stiff, lifeless feel of this room hadn't changed. If I hang around here, someone might find me. I'd rather not have Mom find me here. I readied myself, and though I couldn't even bring myself to enter this room with the lights out, I finally entered. As soon as I closed the door, I felt an oppressive, suffocating sensation. Alright, I've shut myself in the VIP room. Come out, Beatrice. "...What time is it now...?"I looked around the room, but I couldn't see any clock. I'm not in the habit of wearing a watch around the house. drat. Now I'm not sure what time it is. Still, I know it's only a few minutes at most. I tried to suppress my desire to use 'going to get a clock' as an excuse to run away from this place... ...Even so, just standing around like this was boring. When I looked around again, searching for something to sit on, I found something strange. "...What's this?" BGM: At Death's Door ...If this room had been used often by someone, I'd have thought it was just one of their personal belongings. But there is no one living in this room. So, it's impossible for this to belong to the room's owner. "...What is this, an offering or something? Creepy..."It did look like an offering. A small French doll was sitting on the side table. The doll's hair... was gold. It was wearing a black dress. Just who managed to find this doll, and where? There's no doubt that someone placed the doll here to symbolize Beatrice. Does that mean... this doll is supposed to be the owner of this room, or something...? And, as though it was an offering to that owner, there sat a small plate with several cookies and wrapped chocolates. It was all set out neatly, and there was no dust piled up on the doll. In other words, both the doll and the offering were taken care of on a regular basis by the servants, and kept in good condition along with the rest of the room. Taken care of? No, it's more than that. It looked like an offering... no, like some sort of worship, a prayer saying 'please don't curse us'... So, while the doll was eerie enough by itself, psychologically, it was even more unnerving to think about how it must have been kept safe and worshiped in a place like this. "Stupid. Am I supposed to clap my hands together and say 'please don't curse me'?"Jessica forced herself to look away from the bizarre doll. She couldn't bring herself to sit on a bed that wasn't hers. Then again, she didn't really feel like sitting down on a chair either. She had lost any desire to sit on anything in this room.  BGM: None ...What the hell am I doing? Hanging about in the VIP room this late just because that fight with Maria is still eating at me... This is totally pointless... Beatrice. Just when did that strange witch start living in this mansion...? Grandfather's always yelling about Beatrice. Since it's apparently the name of his dead mistress, people started talking about how her ghost must haunt this mansion. There's that kids' horror story about the witch in the forest, which might be a ghost story made by the adults to stop the kids from going in there. The portrait Grandfather had hung in April was really striking. And there was also that weird epitaph. The creepy words on that, which sounded like some sort of ceremony with human sacrifices, made the name of Beatrice seem all the more unnerving. At some point, those stories mixed together, and they now say that the witch Beatrice exists. ...I don't believe in Beatrice... because I know she's just a fictional person made by the fusion of a few horror stories. The Beatrice who was Grandfather's mistress probably did exist. But she wasn't a witch.  In fact, I've heard that kids were once threatened about wolves living in the forest. Apparently, the kids realized that wolves couldn't exist on the island, so it was changed to the witch. When the portrait was hung, that once-vague character suddenly had a face, and people acted as though she'd been around since long ago. ...That's right, it's all a ghost story someone made, a fiction. And Maria calls Beatrice her best friend, and the servants worship her like a household shrine. I just don't get it, and it creeps me out... "...!" There was a phone on the bedside table across from the one with the doll, and it was ringing noisily. However, I was only surprised by the first ring. By the time it had rung three times, I'd regained my cool enough to grumble about this being a prank done by someone trying to scare me. ...If I rush to pick it up, I'll probably hear someone laughing at me, saying 'were you scared?' I thought about ignoring it instead, but it kept on ringing incessantly. It was a pretty loud sound to have going on and on this late at night. If Mom somehow manages to hear it from her room, I'm screwed. "...Okay, okay, I've got it, I've got it. Might as well say 'ya scared me' or whatever..."I decided to pick up the receiver. I'll just say 'that surprised me, wahahaha', and maybe follow that up with 'looks like Beatrice didn't show up after all'. After all, this is my victory, in a sense. "...Hello?" BGM: Happy Maria! (instrumental) "Huh? M, Maria...?!"I don't get it. Did I hear that wrong...? Why would Maria be calling here...?! "H, hello...?!" "Thanks for teaching me that fun song last time. In return, I'm gonna sing you a song, Beatrice. I just learned this one! Uu-!"The voice, the intonation, the manner of speech... all of it clearly belonged to Maria. But... what's she talking about, all by herself...? Maria just kept on talking happily as I stood there, stunned and unable to interrupt. Eventually, Maria started singing an old, familiar kids' song that even I knew. I don't... get it. "...Maria? Hello...? Wait a sec, stop singing...! What's going on? I don't get it...! Hello?! Ah-" BGM: None "What... the hell... was that...?"Does being in darkness really slow us humans down so much...? I know it's dark, but I really do have absolutely no idea what just happened. What was that shuffling sound just now? I, I'm not sure... I can't explain it. It was an incredible slithering sound of someone crawling out of a bed. It wasn't 'like' that sort of sound. It wasn't that vague. I definitely heard that, right next to me, clearly. However, there was no change to the bed. No one had been sleeping there in the first place, and the sheets were still perfectly straight. Someone had crawled out of the bed, and had laughed in a creepy voice before leaving the room... That's... what it felt like. Felt like? I'm here, and the bed's right there. I'm not only in the same room, I'm right next to it. So, why am I so unsure about what happened just a few seconds ago?! I gripped the receiver, which had gone completely silent, and waited there alone, unable to move, in a quiet room that seemed exactly identical to the one I had first entered... ...Huh? What...? If nothing's changed since the beginning, I can just pretend that the last minute or so didn't happen. And yet, if something has changed, that would be proof that something really did happen...  Did it fall to the floor...? No, it's not there. No matter where I look, from whatever angle, it's not there. Though the offering plate with the cookies and chocolate is still here, the thing they were being offered to, the doll, is gone. "...No way..."Then, what just happened...? Is the Beatrice-sama doll supposed to have cackled out loud and left the room...? No, that crawling sound was too loud to have been made by a doll. It was a noisy sort of sound, like a kid playing with a blanket and using it as a cape. Then, what...? Is that Beatrice-sama doll... supposed to have turned into a human... and then run cackling from the room...? "No... way..."After that, nothing happened. The doll alone disappeared, and nothing else changed. In a VIP room that had remained completely unchanged and was filled only with the sound of wind and rain, I stood there, too shocked to move...  "...I looked everywhere, even under the bed. But I didn't find it." "Just what did you think had happened in that room?" "I don't think it was actually Beatrice-sama's curse. It might have been a prank done by the servants." "A prank?" "Maybe they'd recorded Maria's voice previously. They then called at exactly 2:00 and pushed the play button. They could've cut the power at the switchboard or something." "...Then, someone who had been hiding in the VIP room beforehand would make a creepy laugh, take the doll, and leave. If that was how it happened, everything fits." "Doesn't sound like you're really convinced." BGM: Minute Darkness They made Maria sing beforehand and recorded it. Then, someone called the VIP room and replayed that recording. Then, someone waited until exactly the right time and tripped the breaker for the VIP room. To turn off the power to the VIP room, you'd have to go down to the basement. There's a switchboard booth down in the boiler room. There's no phone line down there, so you'd need a different person to play back Maria's tape. And you'd need another person to hide in the VIP room and cackle before leaving. And, just how long would this last person have to hide in the VIP room beforehand...? How long would they have to hide in the pitch-black VIP room--under the bed, for example--waiting to scare Jessica, who might or might not come...? "...There's no way it could be a witch's curse. But still. To me, it's even creepier to imagine that many people planning everything down, to the slightest detail... and waiting for several hours in the darkness just to scare me..." "I agree. A curse would be better. Did you ask the servants about that later on?" "What's the point? They'd just play dumb, of course. And there had to have been at least three of them... On that day, only Genji-san, Gohda-san, Kumasawa-san, and Shannon stayed the night. So three of those four helped out with that creepy prank? It doesn't make sense...! That's why... I couldn't ask about it." "..."True, it had been a strange experience for her, but it wasn't something completely impossible for humans to do. Even so, it really must have been more unnerving to imagine a large number of people planning so carefully just to scare Jessica. It's no surprise that Jessica found this scarier than Beatrice's curse.  "...No. I was probably scared and mistook what I saw and heard. The doll probably just fell somewhere, and I just had trouble finding it." "Are you trying to say you imagined the whole thing...?" "Other than the doll disappearing, there was no other proof that anything had changed. Later on, I talked to Maria, and she said she didn't know anything about that song or the phone call. I don't know if she was lying or not, of course. Anyway, what happened that night... is just something I thought happened... and there's no proof of any kind." "That's ironic. Even if you had met Beatrice directly, you wouldn't have been able to prove that either." "The shock lasted for a while, but as time passed, I began to think that lightning or something had shut off the power for a second, and maybe one of the trees in the garden had fallen, which I mistook for that slithering sound." "And the laugh?" "Maybe some strange bird. Anyway, I might have misheard something to get that sound... I act tough, but I'm actually a real coward. That's why I let my imagination get ahold of me. I tried to use that as an excuse to help me forget everything that happened that night." "To let everything be wrapped in darkness..." "...People are actually pretty good at forgetting things if they try. After that night, I'd feel uncomfortable every time I heard the word 'Beatrice'. But I tried hard to not let it show on my face." "..." "...That's all. I can't tell you any more than that." BGM: Le 4 Octobre "You got it. I have one last question." "About the VIP room?" "No. About the dining hall." "The dining hall?" "On the day of the family conference, just before your ghost story, all of the relatives were gathered in the dining hall, right?" "Yeah. Except Battler hadn't come back to the family yet. Everyone else was there. Everyone except Grandfather, of course." "And Ange wasn't in the room because of her stomachache. Her seat was next to yours, wasn't it?" "Yep." "Was that the seat to your right?" "That's enough. Try not to think. You'll just get a headache." "What's up, Jessica? Why the confused look...?" "...Well, uh... right... left... ???" "Hahah, you're so weird. How is it going, Will? Have George nii-san and Jessica told you anything useful?" "A bit. That ghost story about Beatrice was pretty fun." "Ghost story? What are you talking about?" "The one about Beatrice's ghost appearing in the VIP room at 2:00 in the morning. Pretty scary story." "I've never heard of that. I don't know who put that out there, but that'd be really rude, making up ghost stories about the women our Head is indebted to." "A model answer..." "...? What?" "Do you know about the epitaph, Lion?" "That epitaph by Beatrice's portrait." "...My apologies, but I have no idea what you mean." "'Behold the sweetfish river running through my beloved hometown'." "...Just what... are you talking about?" "So, in your world, no, in this world, the portrait exists, but not the epitaph." "Of course, I know about the large portrait of Beatrice hanging in the entrance hall. But I haven't heard of this epitaph. What is it?" "...That's a very interesting difference. You've lived on Rokkenjima all your life, right?" "Of course. What's your point?" "When you were a little kid, you were told not to go near the woods, Threatened about it." "Yes. They always said to stay away, since it would be dangerous if we got lost." "Because a witch lives in the forest?" "A witch? What witch?" "The Golden Witch, ruler of Rokkenjima's night. Beatrice." "...Beatrice is a woman to whom Grandfather owes a great debt. Don't you think it's a bit rude to treat her like a witch or a ghost?" "...You don't know about the witch Beatrice?" "I know about the Beatrice who came here in a submarine along with the gold, and about her daughter, who was raised in the hidden mansion. We just learned about those two together a short while ago, right? Where does the witch come in?" "...I see, so that's it. Then how did they scare you... to keep you from going into the woods?" "They said that wolves lived in the forest." "...Wolves, not a witch... Of course. Very interesting." "It isn't interesting to me. What are you talking about? What is this witch?" "I'm just talking to myself. I have one more question." "Please, go ahead." "During the family conference, who sits to your right at the dining table?" "My little sister, Jessica, sits across from me. The next in rank is Aunt Eva's son. So, George nii-san is the one on my right... What's your point?" "I get it. It's all mashed together in a confusing mess. But it is interesting." "Well, I don't have a clue."
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Jul 19, 2017 14:48
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Hey, Will noticed the seating arrangement too, good job whoever called that. And no witch either, which means in Lion's world there was no need for a witch, and Lion is definitely of ambiguous existence as well as gender. wrt that I come down on the self loathing, internalised misogyny/misandry/homophobia etc side, mainly metagaming, Japanese media tends to do that more as they have stricter gender roles and more need to point out that they're bullshit than the west. Graylien fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 15:02
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| # ? May 15, 2024 06:25 |
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Wow, that VIP room story actually gave me chills. And Jessica's hesitance to believe it was humans who did it reminds me so much of Battler in the early games. But for her, magic is the more comfortable explanation.
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Jul 19, 2017 15:29
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