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I would also like to note that basically all the things that Bob le Moche said were repeated almost word by word by Russia. So much about being "anti-intervention".
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Jul 14, 2017 18:25
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Bob le Moche posted:Uh oh looks like the commies aren't getting properly silenced by the authorities anymore, time to call for foreign intervention. Oh shut the gently caress up you pathetic little rat. Don't make me force you to live the rest of your life in Venezuela eating from a trash can like the loving tankie pig you are while rich "socialist" oligarchs drink the blood of oil profits from their chalices of greed. JailTrump fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jul 14, 2017 |
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Jul 14, 2017 18:43
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I've been thinking about it and many of you appear to be really intent on me going to Venezuela. I actually really like the idea! If I set up a crowdfunding page for the plane tickets, how many of you would donate to it? I'm due to visit family in Ecuador anyway, I could stop 2 weeks in Caracas on the way there, and report back in this thread with all the ways I get kidnapped by thugs for a ransom or whatever.
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Jul 15, 2017 00:12
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May I suggest that instead of paying for Bob's fantasy trip to Venezuela, you spend your hard-earned money supporting a good cause (i.e., virtually anything else?). Caracas Chronicles has a list of three NGOs that do work in Venezuela that could use your help. Here's the link to the article with the list of NGOs, and a description of how to donate money to them. Apropos of nothing, the National Bolivarian Police got new uniforms today. They're much more militaristic now: https://twitter.com/RCamachoVzla/status/885983582484824068 Also, this video has been making a splash on Twitter today. It was recorded in Lecheria, Anzoategui either today or yesterday. It shows a man getting brutally beaten and arrested by a mixed unit of police/National Guard: https://twitter.com/MariaAlesiaSosa/status/885970345089478656 madeintaipei posted:Goddamn, dude. That's well put. Do you mind if I share this post around, at least in SA? Sure. And yeah, we've got someone in Venezuela in the thread who we haven't heard from in a long time, too. Negrostrike posted:You don't have to apologize for anything. You're doing a huge service by letting us know what's going on. Thank you so much. I've been in Canada for 20 years, and I guess it shows  EDIT: Caracas Chronicles has just published an article in the same series. Here they tell you how to donate money to a Venezuelan NGO that provides meals to homeless children and adults. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 00:32
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I'd be willing to set up a crowdfunding page to buy plane tickets for people to get out of Venezuela. I can think of a couple hundred people more worthy of having someone donate a plane ticket to them than Bob. Bonus, here's Maduro saying that he looks like Saddam Hussein. I'm gonna love to hear this clip again when he's ousted in a couple of weeks. https://twitter.com/HRinforma/status/886006652415213568 fnox fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 08:21
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fnox posted:Bonus, here's Maduro saying that he looks like Saddam Hussein. I'm gonna love to hear this clip again when he's ousted in a couple of weeks. Iraq was invaded on completely fabricated premises with the collaboration of the media repeating propaganda about WMDs. The war lasted more than 10 years killing about 100 people DAILY. A third of the population now lives in poverty. The conflict led to the displacement of more than 4 million people. IMF-imposed reforms led to unemployment around 60% and iraqi-owned assets appropriation by foreign profiteers. The country's land was contaminated by cancer-inducing depleted uranium. The conflict also led to the formation of ISIS with all the bloody consequences that this had for the region. Bob le Moche fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 13:25
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Of course Bob is a Ba'ath loyalist
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Jul 15, 2017 13:51
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:Of course Bob is a Ba'ath loyalist Ah yes everyone who thinks invading Iraq was a mistake obviously is a Ba'ath loyalist. Classic move. So basically anyone reading this thread can safely assume that it's the same people calling for intervention again Maduro today who defend the invasion of Iraq. Correct?
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Jul 15, 2017 14:03
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Bob le Moche posted:Ah yes everyone who thinks invading Iraq was a mistake obviously is a Ba'ath loyalist. Classic move. No, but thanks for jumping to conclusions and displaying the same amount of thought when replying to fnox's post. Do please point out where he noted that he endorsed the Iraq war. As always, you do nothing but a disservice to this thread but make a great showing for unimaginative trolls worldwide. I must say that the ticket crowd funding was particularly inspired.
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Jul 15, 2017 14:15
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In case anyone's following the Odebrecht corruption scandal news out of Brazil, there's a bit of a tie-in to Venezuela. Odebrecht allegedly paid $98 million in bribes to Venezuelan officials in exchange for contracts for a few years. Three days ago, the Public Ministry formally charged the mother-in-law and wife of former Minister of Transport and Public Works Haiman El Troudi with corruption-related offences in the Odebrect case. El Troudi's wife acted as his personal assistant while he was a cabinet member, and it looks like she may have handled the bribery side of the business. This morning, news broke that the government of Switzerland had frozen three bank accounts under the name of Elita Del Valle Zacarias Diaz, El Troudi's mother-in-law. The frozen accounts contain a total of $42 million: one account hold $28 million, the other holds $4 million, and the last holds $10 million. In another bit of news, today looks like it might get really dumb really soon given that tomorrow is the plebiscite. El Nacional is already reporting that a colectivo armado has set up camp right by a voting centre in the city of Maturin, Monagas state. I expect that we'll continue to see this type of intimidation throughout the day: https://twitter.com/MariaGMonagas/status/886196341340332032 https://twitter.com/MariaGMonagas/status/886201881168666626 If you told me 10 years ago that one day the opposition would organize a grassroots electoral process in defense of the 1999 Constitution (which is the one that Chavez wrote) I would have thought you were insane. EDIT: I also wanted to stress that the new National Bolivarian Police force uniforms are really messed up. They're straight-up military camouflage: https://twitter.com/DolarToday/status/886210361606713344 For reference, here is a picture of the old uniforms, which as you can see were much more civilian-y: https://twitter.com/2RADl0/status/882850570545098752 The National Bolivarian Police was created in 2010 for a number of reasons, but one of them was the need to have a professional civilian police force at the national jurisdictional level. For years and years Chavez and Maduro talked about how the NBP was a "humanist" force that lived socialist values of equality, compassion, etc. This uniform change tells me that Maduro is not worried about appearing more and more authoritarian. This is a bit of a tangent, but a few months ago the Chief of Police at the Toronto Police Service decided to unilaterally approve a change in the force's cruiser colour scheme. Police cars went from being painted blue, red and white to being all-black, with gray letters that are a bit hard to read. People lost their minds over the change. Hardly anyone liked the militaristic, authoritarian new look for the cars, and the Chief eventually relented and put a halt to the new cars. These sort of optics really matter. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 14:30
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Bob le Moche posted:Ah yes everyone who thinks invading Iraq was a mistake obviously is a Ba'ath loyalist. Classic move. You're a loving idiot, he's just saying he looks like Saddam Hussein because he has a mustache and was wearing camo and a red beret. Why can't you ask what you don't know instead of jumping to conclusions?
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Jul 15, 2017 17:30
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bob why are you even posting here I mean it's clear no one agrees with or is going to be convinced all the dumb tankie.txt stuff you keep spouting, and you clearly arn't interested in having a genuine conversation about venezuela
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Jul 15, 2017 17:45
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Two members of the Venezuelan Army killed a Colombian citizen on the Colombian-Venezuelan border . We'll see if this sparks a major international internet.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:33
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But the internet is already international, how else are we all communicating on this forum?
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Jul 15, 2017 20:40
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Chuck Boone posted:This morning, news broke that the government of Switzerland had frozen three bank accounts under the name of Elita Del Valle Zacarias Diaz, El Troudi's mother-in-law. The frozen accounts contain a total of $42 million: one account hold $28 million, the other holds $4 million, and the last holds $10 million. Hurray, more money we in Switzerland get to appropriate from awful dictators and then never return to the legal owners (since that's so hard to prove) and keep for ourselves! Tunisia/Tunisians have so far gotten back like a tiny percentage of the frozen Ben Ali money in banks here, 7 years on and after two free elections and stable regime changes. /s, just in case Saladman fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 21:42
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I slapped together two Twitter lists, one in Spanish and one (mostly) in English, of journalists and media outlets covering events in the country. Tomorrow's going to be a busy day, so if you're into the Twitter thing you might find the lists helpful.JailTrump posted:Two members of the Venezuelan Army killed a Colombian citizen on the Colombian-Venezuelan border . It looks like the man who was killed may have been trying to sneak in to/out of Venezuela. Sadly these types of events aren't uncommon. I think that the media reports on border shootings/killings at least two or three times a year. Who knows how many other cases don't make national headlines.
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Jul 15, 2017 23:13
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Chuck Boone posted:In another bit of news, today looks like it might get really dumb really soon given that tomorrow is the plebiscite. El Nacional is already reporting that a colectivo armado has set up camp right by a voting centre in the city of Maturin, Monagas state. I expect that we'll continue to see this type of intimidation throughout the day: I look forward to similar results as Saddam Hussein's two Presidential 'elections' or, worst case, Bashar al-Assad's.
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Jul 16, 2017 03:11
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Serious question: how do people become allowed to join up with a collectivo anyway? Is there a formal government/PSUV application process?
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Jul 16, 2017 03:19
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fnox posted:I doubt he could mobilize an entire army, not only because I don't see any officers backing his very improvised plans, but because the members of the military who aren't brainwashed, for the most part, actually believe they shouldn't get involved in civilian affairs. I knew a Venezuelan Special Forces soldier, and he told me precisely that, that he and the rest of his division only do as they're told, they choose for the most part to forget about politics while they're in the service. My late Air Force Captain uncle told me the same many years ago. Maybe some have had a change of heart now but I doubt any important portion of them actually believe they will make things better by starting an armed coup. I agree, but I don't think he's trying to appeal to the army really, which is why he had to desert in the first place. Since the unrest started this year I've been hearing increasingly aggressive noises. Last week there was a fellow on the radio who had been shot in the gut with a marble. Asked if he had any regrets his just said that he wished he and his fellow protesters had been armed so they could have defended themselves. It sometimes comes up in this thread how people are frustrated with the opposition for going so slowly, or seeming corrupt themselves. Among some at least I get the impression there's a thirst for more dramatic and radical action. That desire to overthrow the PSUV by any means nessary. Now obviously Oscar Perez hasn't really done anything of consequence besides trend on twitter. However, whenever anyone thinks to themselves "I want to fight to overthrow Maduro but the PSUV will sell us out again, what do I do?" They'll think of Perez and seek him out. His putting his face out there in these videos, showing himself armed, an outlaw and making himself a magnet for the most radical and impatient opponents of the government. If he can avoid getting killed and the army doesn't coup Maduro soon, it seems likely he'll be able to build a group capable of organized violent resistance.
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Jul 16, 2017 04:29
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fishmech posted:Serious question: how do people become allowed to join up with a collectivo anyway? Is there a formal government/PSUV application process? I would assume not since the whole point of having semi-sanctioned militias is to let them do dirty work while giving the government plausible deniability to their actions. That said I don't actually know.
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Jul 16, 2017 04:57
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I dont know posted:I would assume not since the whole point of having semi-sanctioned militias is to let them do dirty work while giving the government plausible deniability to their actions. That said I don't actually know. Excellent username / post combination here. I would guess that joining a colectivo is just "you're friends with someone already in one," though I don't know either.
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Jul 16, 2017 08:12
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Chuck Boone posted:Apropos of nothing, the National Bolivarian Police got new uniforms today. They're much more militaristic now: For those who don't read Spanish, the first tweet reads: "Narrator: In the 4th republic, the police was used for repression, thanks to the vision of the comandante eterno and Maduro this has been eliminated" Also, the guy who got the everliving crap beaten out of him for no apparent reason is now awaiting court martial. beer_war fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 08:16
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This isn't intended to be political, but I just found this old film that was intended to prepare American Oil workers for jobs in Venezuela in 1956. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaVEKcpUQe8 Question for Venegoons- When did Venezuela nationalize the oil industry? MullardEL34 fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 08:27
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ISIS CURES TROONS posted:bob why are you even posting here He continues posting here because his brain is broken. Why he is allowed to post here is a testament of quality of D&D moderation.
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Jul 16, 2017 09:18
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MullardEL34 posted:Question for Venegoons- When did Venezuela nationalize the oil industry? After the creation of PDVSA in the 70s, during Carlos Andres Perez's first government.
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Jul 16, 2017 09:35
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MullardEL34 posted:This isn't intended to be political, but I just found this old film that was intended to prepare American Oil workers for jobs in Venezuela in 1956. And just for fun, the MST3k version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJY2S_brQbQ
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Jul 16, 2017 10:13
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Today is the big day. I'm sure more than one Venezuelan had difficulty sleeping through the night. Even though the government has called today's plebiscite illegal and of no consequence, it's important to realize that it is actually entrenched in the Constitution. Article 70 of the document states (emphasis mine): quote:Article 70: Participation and involvement of people in the exercise of their sovereignty in political affairs can be manifested by: voting to fill public offices, referendum, consultation of public opinion, mandate revocation, legislative, constitutional and constituent initiative, open forums and meetings of citizens* whose decisions shall be binding among others; and in social and economic affairs: citizen service organs, selfmanagement, co-management, cooperatives in all forms, including those of a financial nature, savings funds, community enterprises, and other forms of association guided by the values of mutual cooperation and solidarity. The law shall establish conditions for the effective functioning of the means of participation provided for under the present article. This is yet another example of the  reversal in the legal and political struggle that is taking place in Venezuela today. What we're seeing today is a majority of Venezuelans, spearheaded by the opposition, participating in a vote entrenched in the 1999 Constitution in defense of that same document, and a government that is once again ignoring Chavez's "perfect" constitution in order to remain in power. In short, don't let anyone tell you that today's vote is meaningless, or that it's illegal. It is a mechanism that is entrenched in the constitution, and it is every Venezuelan's right to vote in today's proceedings. Whether the regime wants to accept that is another matter entirely. It's just about 8:30 AM in Venezuela and already voting centres around the country have lines with hundreds of people in them. There are voting centres all around the world since the process is open to every Venezuelan citizen over the age of 18. Here are some pictures from the day so far: From Barquisimeto, Lara state: https://twitter.com/ReporteYa/status/886560429425782786 In the Gato Negro sector of Catia, Caracas. Once a chavista stronghold, this is one of the poorer areas of the city and therefore one of the worst affected by the collapse of governance: https://twitter.com/alcaldeledezma/status/886557864994537473 El Junquito and Chacaito, Caracas: https://twitter.com/VotoPorVzla/status/886547096224006144 Venezuelans even voted in Hungary: https://twitter.com/EfectoCocuyo/status/886553616752009216 Depending on a couple of things I may approach one of the voting centres here in Mexico City later on. Unfortunately, I won't be able to vote. I've been in Mexico City since mid-June, and the MUD announced the plebiscite on July 3. In order to vote abroad, you have to show your Venezuelan passport (or I.D card), but I left mine at home because I always travel with my Canadian passport. The voting centre near where I'm staying is actually a Venezuelan restaurant, so I might still go grab an arepa! fishmech posted:Serious question: how do people become allowed to join up with a collectivo anyway? Is there a formal government/PSUV application process? I think that it's important to think about colectivos as existing on a continuum of organizations that vary from a common, ordinary street gang to a formal, state-sanctioned militia. One one extreme you have colectivos that are essentially criminal gangs. You would join these as you might join a gang anywhere else in the world. You've lived in your neighbourhood X number of years, you happen to know a couple of guys who are into some shady business and you want in, and they also happen to go out and intimidate/threaten/attack people during anti-regime protests. Other groups (like the Unidad de Batalla Bolivar-Chavez) are official state militias that, at least on paper, do things like community organizing and lobbying as well as the vanguard of the revolution and their first line of defense. The process for joining these groups is more formal and would involve registering with the government. Having said that, one of the chapters in my dissertation is likely going to be on the colectivos armados, so if you wait around two years or so I might be able to get back to you on this with a better answer!
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Jul 16, 2017 13:26
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I've already voted, there were a shocking 80 voters in Lund, Sweden. I had expected less than 20. The process is way faster than with elections, and nobody is locked to specific poll centres, so expect anywhere with long queues to have massive turnouts.
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Jul 16, 2017 14:53
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The turnout so far appears to be pretty big. It's hard to project from pictures and videos what the end of the day will look like, but I think people are generally surprised by how many have gone out to vote so far. This is in La Candelaria, Caracas: https://twitter.com/MariaCorinaYA/status/886577003381616641 https://twitter.com/RCamachoVzla/status/886580602736181248 And Catia, once a stronghold of chavismo: https://twitter.com/RCTVenlinea/status/886577579435716609 https://twitter.com/DiarioTalCual/status/886564840617193473 Parque Carabobo, also in Caracas: https://twitter.com/hispanopost/status/886575333159432194 The town of Carora in Lara state: https://twitter.com/alcaldeledezma/status/886570352150802432 Turnout abroad has also been impressive. The video below is from London, England: https://twitter.com/resistechamo/status/886575450213974021 Tenerife, Spain: https://twitter.com/AlbertoRT51/status/886533029887442944 fnox posted:I've already voted, there were a shocking 80 voters in Lund, Sweden. I had expected less than 20. The process is way faster than with elections, and nobody is locked to specific poll centres, so expect anywhere with long queues to have massive turnouts. We're everywhere! These people voted in Almaty, Kazakhstan: https://twitter.com/Sinmordaza/status/886586465349767168
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Jul 16, 2017 15:09
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I just started dating a girl from Venezuela. I have to use this thread to educate myself. Thanks in advance!
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Jul 16, 2017 16:10
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Venezuelan restaurant across from me in Santiago is a voting station, and there seems to have been a pretty constant stream of people and a permanent crowd of around 30 people.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:41
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TeleSur's English website is reporting that there is "unexpectedly high turnout" for the "dry run" of the July 30th constituent assembly. http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Unexpectedly-High-Turn-Out-for-Venezuelas-Dry-Run-Vote-for-Constituent-Assembly-20170715-0018.html E: Wait, after reading the full article twice I'm more confused. Does the Maduro regime also have its own thing going on at the same time?  This article about the PDVSA selling itself to an unnamed American oil company is also pretty http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Venezuela-Signs-Deal-With-US-Company-to-Improve-Oil-Production-20170715-0011.html"'I invite all U.S. capital in all areas of economy and energy to come to Venezuela.' Maduro said." Literally the only difference between a late 1900s Latin American fascist right-wing dictator and Maduro seems to be that Maduro pays lip service bullshit to "the people" and "social justice" Saladman fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 18:48
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Saladman posted:E: Wait, after reading the full article twice I'm more confused. Does the Maduro regime also have its own thing going on at the same time? Yes there is a link in the first sentence: http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Venezuela-Prepares-Dry-Run-for-Constituent-Assembly-Vote-20170714-0014.html
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Jul 16, 2017 18:56
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Med School posted:I just started dating a girl from Venezuela. I have to use this thread to educate myself. Thanks in advance! Surprise her by learning how to make arepas and she'll love you forever.  Just got back from voting in Chacao because my mom and cousin didn't want to risk voting near our home just in case. It took us about an hour to get through the line but the entire process felt much quicker than regular elections since there weren't any people fumbling with electronic voting machines. As for the turnout, it felt a bit more congested than usual, but that's to be expected since there are less voting centers and more people to each of them. I read a tweet from Carlos Ocariz saying they had a projection of one million votes by 10AM and if those figures are true and they hold up, we might be seeing around 4-5 million votes by the end of the day, I think. Of course, that's just a number I'm pulling out of my rear end. All things considered, I'd love to see more than 7 million votes since that would put us in the ballpark of the last 'official' elections and it would lend much more legitimacy to the opposition moving forward. Surprisingly, there's been only a handful of minor incidents in voting centers around the country so far and by incidents I mean colectivos loving things up. The only major event so far is that a colectivo stormed a voting center in Western Caracas, beat up a bunch of people and stole a ballot box, but that seems to be an outlier. On a different note, let's not gently caress up the thread today by paying attention to the troll. It's a really interesting day and it's not worth derailing the conversation.
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Jul 16, 2017 19:09
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Saladman posted:Wait, after reading the full article twice I'm more confused. Does the Maduro regime also have its own thing going on at the same time? A constant reminder about Local Politics is that whenever the opposition propposes to make a big event like previous marches, the government loves to create a parallel one on the same day to pretend things are going their way. That said, I'm delurking to say I managed to vote for the plebiscite and the proccess has been fast in Valencia and with a constantly strong turnout.
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Jul 16, 2017 19:16
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Madrid had two voting points, and both were completely full and well organized. Took like 20 minutes to vote but the woman writing down my information told me they've been at it non stop since it begun. There're lots of us here!Med School posted:I just started dating a girl from Venezuela. I have to use this thread to educate myself. Thanks in advance! I wish you luck. Venezuelan women have character, son! That said find a venezuelan restaurant and take her to get some pabellón.
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Jul 16, 2017 19:49
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I'm really surprised by how well this has been going so far, and by how many people have participated. Voting centres are scheduled to close in about 2 hours, but it's not unusual for them to remain open as long as there are people in line so as to allow everyone who wants to vote to do so. I'll have a full write up before I go to bed tonight, but here's a video of a shooting at a voting centre in Catia, Caracas. Apparently a colectivo armado showed up and started shooting in the air to disperse the voters: https://twitter.com/CaraotaDigital/status/886657140802367489 Saladman posted:E: Wait, after reading the full article twice I'm more confused. Does the Maduro regime also have its own thing going on at the same time? Yes, like AstraSage said, the government will almost always schedule a co-event on the same day that the opposition scheduled something. The PSUV is holding a "practice vote" for the Constituent Assembly election on July 30. This allows them to make sure that their people are at their voting centres and not the opposition ones, and it lets them try to steal the headline. As TeleSur will tell you, the headline for today is "PSUV holds successful practice run for July 30 vote; opposition holds smaller, not-as-good event no one really attended". EDIT: I may have spoken too soon about the whole "it's going well!" thing. It looks like two people were killed and several were injured at the shooting in Catia. The initial reports say that men on motorcycle drove by the voting centre and shot at the crowd of voters. https://twitter.com/RCamachoVzla/status/886659514237415424 Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 19:50
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Chuck Boone posted:
Ha, I hadn't thought about that. Assholes.
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Jul 16, 2017 20:21
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Ha, I hadn't thought about that. Assholes. During the 2015 elections they went as far as making a fake political party that had an almost identical name and logo as the opposition so that it would dilute the opposition vote.
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Jul 16, 2017 22:03
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Saladman posted:This article about the PDVSA selling itself to an unnamed American oil company is also pretty The only thing I can imagine going on here is some sort of weird thing where they have PDVSA become a subsidiary of Citgo, rather than Citgo being the subsidiary as it is now. Normally you do this for purposes of performing a tax inversion with a large multinational, but I can't imagine where that'd give any benefits here, really.
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Jul 16, 2017 22:11
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