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Remember all the missing persons flyers you find in the city hubs, comments about people disappearing and reports of missing women on police computers? Yeah. edit: Update on the previous page.
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Jun 19, 2017 17:17
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:
Quotin' for new page. Soooo much hate for those scanning "hidden" load screens.
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Jun 19, 2017 18:55
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Man, Tiffany's accent just feels INCREDIBLY fake.
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Jun 19, 2017 20:02
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You were referring to the Milgram experiments, no? Well, funny thing about the Milgram experiments. The one thing they proved, was not that people were likely to follow orders, but that they were more likely to agree to inflict pain up to a certain point if they were doing it for what the subject felt was moral reasons. When Milgram was giving the last prod, as an order, something like: "The experiment requires you to continue", every single participant flat-out refused to comply. People won't follow orders that go against their sense of morality. 
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Jun 20, 2017 00:51
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Condoleezza Nice! posted:You were referring to the Milgram experiments, no? Well, funny thing about the Milgram experiments. The one thing they proved, was not that people were likely to follow orders, but that they were more likely to agree to inflict pain up to a certain point if they were doing it for what the subject felt was moral reasons. When Milgram was giving the last prod, as an order, something like: "The experiment requires you to continue", every single participant flat-out refused to comply. People won't follow orders that go against their sense of morality. That's not the version of the experiment I remember reading about. In fact, the original version had so many test subjects reach the end without objection that it was distressing and led to ethical changes in experimentation parameters. The key factor, as shown in further experiments, was how much the subject was willing to sublimate their sense of personal responsibility based on the presence and assumed authority of the test giver. Changes like having the test giver not wear a lab coat and having the test giver stand a dozen feet away instead of right behind the subject were enough to cause many more subjects to refuse to complete the test.
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Jun 20, 2017 01:15
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:That's not the version of the experiment I remember reading about. In fact, the original version had so many test subjects reach the end without objection that it was distressing and led to ethical changes in experimentation parameters. The key factor, as shown in further experiments, was how much the subject was willing to sublimate their sense of personal responsibility based on the presence and assumed authority of the test giver. Changes like having the test giver not wear a lab coat and having the test giver stand a dozen feet away instead of right behind the subject were enough to cause many more subjects to refuse to complete the test. Huh. I'll have to dig up my sources.
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Jun 20, 2017 02:26
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DEATH TO LP SUBFORUM LONG LIVE THE NEW
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Jun 20, 2017 05:06
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This one perhaps? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
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Jun 20, 2017 18:50
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I know this corner of the earth, it smiles at me
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:That's not the version of the experiment I remember reading about. In fact, the original version had so many test subjects reach the end without objection that it was distressing and led to ethical changes in experimentation parameters. The key factor, as shown in further experiments, was how much the subject was willing to sublimate their sense of personal responsibility based on the presence and assumed authority of the test giver. Changes like having the test giver not wear a lab coat and having the test giver stand a dozen feet away instead of right behind the subject were enough to cause many more subjects to refuse to complete the test. I seem to recall one variant in which there are two operators, one the test subject and the other another actor, and the actor was directed to voice objection to the test giver upon sufficient escalation of the test. I believe the results were in that scenario, the test subject always refused to continue the test. Really illustrates the importance of having the courage to stand up to immoral authority figures, especially publicly. schnibs posted:This one perhaps? That one's more about people's willingness to assume given roles in a situation, especially if perceived power dynamics, real or not, are involved. And also why we now have strict ethics guidelines for psychological experiments.
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Jun 21, 2017 00:46
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Kerning Chameleon posted:I seem to recall one variant in which there are two operators, one the test subject and the other another actor, and the actor was directed to voice objection to the test giver upon sufficient escalation of the test. I believe the results were in that scenario, the test subject always refused to continue the test. 10% obedience, not 0%. But don't take my word for it.
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Jun 21, 2017 00:55
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:10% obedience, not 0%. But don't take my word for it. That's really interesting. And not at all what dr. David Buss and so on is saying in this Radiolab episode: http://www.radiolab.org/story/180103-whos-bad/ Yes, I know it's not the best source in the world, but still. My original source was a Norwegian book on criminology and I can't be assed to translate it, as I have an exam coming up. Edit: Hang on, now I get it. We're talking past each other, I think? My point was that when Milgram was forced to deliver his fourth prod, "You have no other choice but to continue", none of the "teachers" were comfortable with continuing. That's where I get my 0% figure from. But Milgram did not have to go as far as using his 4th prod on all the "teachers". When milgram was forced to use his fourth prod, obedience fell to 0% across the board. That's what I meant. Your source on simply psychology doesn't really go into the (in my opinion) interesting statistics, like how many of the different prods did each participant get on average? Were there any participants who were not prodded at all? Your source references Milgram's conclusion on "blind obedience" but fails to bring up the fact that once a participant was given a direct order, I.E. "you have no choice", they were unlikely to go through with it. The article literally only says: " 65% (two-thirds) of participants (i.e. teachers) continued to the highest level of 450 volts. All the participants continued to 300 volts." And then concludes. What the gently caress? Condoleezza Nice! fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Jun 21, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 09:12
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How much longer is the DLC content? I'm having a hard time getting into it and I can't figure out why.
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Jun 26, 2017 05:32
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Lord Zedd-Repulsa posted:How much longer is the DLC content? I'm having a hard time getting into it and I can't figure out why. There's this and one more video.      Book: The Intelligence Circuit News: Biotech Industry Debate Book: Nano-Augmentation Book: Synthetic Thought: Can a Machine?
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Jun 26, 2017 18:11
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The trauma kit has morphine, which can be used to put someone out of their misery *cough*
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Jun 26, 2017 19:20
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What baffled me was how they got a pallet lifter into the elevator shaft. There's no way to get it in, no way to get it out, even with a ladder. Goddamn. I also want to know what the hell is up with Quinn's cybernetic modifications. Why would you have a face aug/prosthetic that literally only involves a circular part of the center of the face?
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Jun 27, 2017 07:28
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Just to remind people: the strange white clothing the victims / O-C-M humans-as-parts are wearing ? You've seen it before, in the office/workspace of a certain CEO. It's kind of weird seeing the DLC reveal at this point in time, since it reverses the order in which some stuff gets shown in the original game + standalone DLC.
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Jun 27, 2017 16:11
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Considering the abundance of Praxis kits you have, I'm surprised you didn't use the 'Speech' one, who real name escapes me, on Quin in the shop there. Also useful later on when you speak to Quin again. He'll make reference to your previous attempts of doing so.
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Jun 27, 2017 21:13
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CASIS.
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Jun 28, 2017 13:30
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Well, CASIE - I remember because characters pronounce it like the name "Casey" when mentioning it. You know I've never heard of The Giver before - maybe it's not a big thing in Australia? The story summary reminded me of Equilibrium though, in which everyone is legally required to take drugs to inhibit emotion - because emotion is apparently the sole cause of war, conflict, crime, etc. Also everyone dresses like they're doing The Matrix cosplay and "gun kata" features heavily - it's a pretty silly movie. Anyway, I'm currently playing Mankind Divided through for the first time, and Bobbin, if you ever do an LP of it, I don't know how you'd manage your usual thing of talking to everyone and listening in on all/most of the conversations. In certain parts there are literal crowds of people all talking and holding their own conversations at once, it's nuts.
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Jun 29, 2017 02:05
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  Email: RE: RE: Oi Email: Loading Bay 1 Turret Email: Orion Insta-Messaging Autosave Email: Exfiltration ASAP Email: RE: RE: Heads Email: FW: Adam Jensen PS: *** Addendum: Serpent Crash *** Email: Orion Insta-Messaging Autosave Email: RE: RE: Confirmation of Shipment
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Jul 3, 2017 17:01
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So another Irishman turned out to have ulterior motives and be a mole for another organization after all. Was Quinn talking to Daedalus at the end there?
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Jul 3, 2017 18:24
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I would guess that he's talking to a character that's a big plot point in Mankind Divided but who I did not recall even being hinted at in Human Revolution. Because I never played the DLC. I could be wrong, but that's my guess. The leader of the Juggernaut Collective, Janus. The organization Quinn describes very much sounds like them. Of course, Janus' identity is mysterious so it could be a mask for some character we're already familiar with. We'll probably never know now since there won't be any more Deus Ex anytime soon.
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Jul 5, 2017 01:06
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Actually, the identity of the character you mentioned got (accidentally?) spoiled through the DXMD artbook and guide - if you piece together some stuff from each. Also, this DLC has a special place in my heart. Not only did I enjoy the mission a lot (aside from the loading scans) , but after finishing it the day it came out, at 7 am or something like that, and skipping the credits and crashing to get some sleep since I was really tired, I woke up finding messages from multiple people about actually being in the credits. Hah. 
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Jul 9, 2017 21:44
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  PS: Dorm Code PS: Radar Tower Repairs Email: rumors Email: PRIORITY: Loading Bay-C Cleanup PS: New Hardware Email: (no subject) Email: RE: (no subject) Email: A simple favor (you should read this one)
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Jul 10, 2017 17:10
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I have a bookshelf full of books that sort of fit the description of your hint, but I can't for the life of me think of which one could be the one that started the genre. If I even have it.
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Jul 10, 2017 22:01
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malkav11 posted:I would guess that he's talking to a character that's a big plot point in Mankind Divided but who I did not recall even being hinted at in Human Revolution. Because I never played the DLC. I could be wrong, but that's my guess. The leader of the Juggernaut Collective, Janus. The organization Quinn describes very much sounds like them. Of course, Janus' identity is mysterious so it could be a mask for some character we're already familiar with. We'll probably never know now since there won't be any more Deus Ex anytime soon. The ending of Mankind Divided made the identity of Janus very obvious. Ometeotl fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 22:37
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It did?
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Jul 10, 2017 22:49
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pun pundit posted:I have a bookshelf full of books that sort of fit the description of your hint, but I can't for the life of me think of which one could be the one that started the genre. If I even have it.
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Jul 11, 2017 00:01
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Ometeotl posted:The ending of Mankind Divided made the identity of Janus very obvious. I beat Mankind Divided and I have no idea, so I think "very obvious" is stretching it. Possibly there's some leading hint that I missed.
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Jul 11, 2017 00:44
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one of the Illuminati guys mentions the name and the other Illuminati guy, the one the camera is solely focused on, makes a shifty face. It couldn't be more obvious without a flashback detailing they guy doing all the things Janus did.
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Jul 11, 2017 01:19
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I love the triumphant music during the talk about alcohol.  
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Jul 11, 2017 03:00
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Left the 2 chatty hallway guards alive and sleeping. Angel will have witnesses!
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Jul 17, 2017 19:13
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Edit:Nvm.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:33
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I feel like this was one of the harder parts of the game - at least until the DLC came along. Those early parts where you've been stripped of your equipment and augmentations can be brutal.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:00
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Re: prisons - whether storage makes sense as a prison alternative depends on your perspective on their purpose. You apparently feel they're there to inculcate remorse and rehabilitation. But in real life there are a lot of ways that prison doesn't actually achieve those sorts of goals with any consistency. So personally, I think the main purpose to which prison is actually suited is to keep that person out of general society, which sticking someone into storage achieves remarkably well. Too, while there are people in the world of Altered Carbon that live much longer than we do now (the Methuselahs that so drive the story), they are relatively rare and tend to be very wealthy. For everyone else, being taken out of the world for 50-100 years will quite possibly take you away from everyone you have ever known. So that's a pretty big gut punch there, if punishment is your aim. Otherwise...I mean, I can understand wanting to know more about the things you mention but I'm not convinced that elaborating on them would have helped with the twisty cybernoir tale being told, and Morgan does riff further on the setting's ideas with the two sequels. (As well as exploring other genres. The concept is so flexible I would have liked him to keep doing different flavors of SF with Kovacs indefinitely but apparently he's not interested in doing any more.)
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Jul 22, 2017 04:20
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Whether prisons are effective is irrelevant; the stated purpose of imprisonment is to punish the guilty and time displacement is a much lighter and more pointless punishment than our current system. Plus it doesn't make sense even if you go full cynic, because you can't get any forced labor out of prisoners in storage, either.
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Jul 22, 2017 05:16
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Whether prisons are effective is irrelevant; the stated purpose of imprisonment is to punish the guilty and time displacement is a much lighter and more pointless punishment than our current system. Plus it doesn't make sense even if you go full cynic, because you can't get any forced labor out of prisoners in storage, either. Maybe it's like the original version of the Matrix and the prisoners' brains are used for extra processing power?
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Jul 22, 2017 05:43
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White Coke posted:Maybe it's like the original version of the Matrix and the prisoners' brains are used for extra processing power? Definitely not, since the only thing that's being stored is their digital consciousness - the actual bodies are rented out. And data != processing power. Edit: Which incidentally does basically equate to or better forced labor.
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Jul 22, 2017 05:53
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The American prison system has a stated purpose of rehabilitation. It's terrible at it. The stated purpose is not what needs to change, it's the system. The system in altered carbon is probably even less effective at that goal. Which makes me think it's deliberately set up that way by the author. The real goal of the system is probably time-displacing criminals out of the living memory of the crime in question. If the corporation that runs the prison can make some extra bucks out of bidding wars over sleeves, so much the better. Time displacement is terrible at even keeping criminals out of society, because life expectancy doesn't change and so after the first sentences are completed all it does is swap past criminals in for current ones.
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Jul 22, 2017 06:00
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