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The three rings of power are obviously magical "technology" and still present at the time of the book. The effects and powers of Galadriels ring in particular are described in great detail . They were made by Celebrimbor who was the grandson of feanor.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:40
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Also the dwarfs have all sorts of technology and industry and are neither absolutely evil or good.
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Jul 7, 2017 01:41
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sunday at work posted:Sure it's technobable but so is magic bread. No that's magic.
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Jul 7, 2017 03:18
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The difference between elven high tech and orcish high tech is that elves get their technological roots from angels who made the world and understand all the ways in which it works, allowing the elves to skip all that tiresome poo poo like pollution, the discovery of sustainability, the early stages of experimentation and iffy ethics, and the problem of early-automation industry with its attending exploitation and high death toll. Orcs, on the other hand, have their divine technological inspiration from a dude whose boss wanted the floor to be lava and doesn't like all these gross organics loving the place up. Their DNA has been altered to tolerate deep places with toxic gases and monocultured food sources and foul surroundings-- they were literally made for a society that was expected to dead-end at carbon-steel metallurgy and strip mining. They were built to create a world so stripped-down that even they can't survive. Thus the future of Men in Arda: no divine jump-start for their tech, but no built-in drive to self-destruction by industry, either. Destructive, unsustainable tech is orcish; enlightened, unobtainable tech is elvish; and I guess humans get to muddle through with horses and swords or whatever. I actually kinda hate that it's just gears and levers vs hymns and herbs. Elves and their tech are leaving, right? So like... what are humans supposed to do if they want to move forward, as their species is supposedly destined to do? Are we, thematically, just gonna be forced to adopt orcish ways and hope we grow through them? Are we supposed to, metaphorically speaking, built boats and sail to Valinor for answers? Like, what was Tolkien's endgame for humanity?
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Jul 7, 2017 04:07
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Becomes hobbits.
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Jul 7, 2017 04:09
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I'm down for this.
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Jul 7, 2017 05:30
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Aren't hobbits also oddly technologically advanced for a race that claims not to like technology that much, at least in comparison to humans? That's the impression I got, maybe I'm wrong. 
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Jul 7, 2017 12:47
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euphronius posted:Also the dwarfs have all sorts of technology and industry and are neither absolutely evil or good. Dwarves, please. Or Dwarrows I believe Tolkien says is the more proper term.
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Jul 7, 2017 14:42
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Steamhead Duardin.
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Jul 7, 2017 14:43
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EvilTaytoMan posted:Aren't hobbits also oddly technologically advanced for a race that claims not to like technology that much, at least in comparison to humans? That's the impression I got, maybe I'm wrong. Not especially, they like most western men don't have anything beyond wind and water power and completely lack organized industry or finance (though they do have coinage) or even an effectual governmental authority. Like most Men, they possessed things that we would consider forms of technology but were not a technological society.
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Jul 7, 2017 14:44
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Also the hobbits did at one time have more advanced technology but had gone backwards and viewed most machines as useless mathoms to be stuck in a museum.
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Jul 7, 2017 19:34
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The hobbitses had what I guess you could call an idealized rural 18th-century Englishman's set of cottage industries and so on. There probably wasn't a major difference between a blacksmith shop in the Shire and one in Gondor beyond the former being smaller and probably purely agricultural.
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Jul 7, 2017 21:16
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elise the great posted:Like, what was Tolkien's endgame for humanity? For us to die, since Humans and Hobbits are the only race to experience True Death
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Jul 8, 2017 07:04
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elise the great posted:The difference between elven high tech and orcish high tech is that elves get their technological roots from angels who made the world and understand all the ways in which it works, allowing the elves to skip all that tiresome poo poo like pollution, the discovery of sustainability, the early stages of experimentation and iffy ethics, and the problem of early-automation industry with its attending exploitation and high death toll. What's more important to tolkien was using power to force people to do poo poo, to force your will onto them. He used the industry of war and rapid growth as visual metaphors for this in LotR, given his experiences in life. Men, or the numenoreans more specifically, did plenty of big-time works, such as Minas Tirith, Minas Ithil, Orthanc, etc. At the time of LotR the kingdoms of men are in decline, and can't make things like that anymore. Also they made lots of boats and sailed the seven seas and were great at it, which would have taken a huge maritime industry.
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Jul 8, 2017 09:24
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Bilbo totally didn't beat the Old Took's age record, he cheated by using a magical ring. I demand at least an asterisk.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:07
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Okay so this is only semi-related to the current conversation, but I was at an event hosted by Peter Jackson last night and my god the man looks more and more like a Hobbit with every passing year.
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Jul 10, 2017 05:17
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Sort of... stretched, like too much butter on bread
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Jul 12, 2017 01:46
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Tree Bucket posted:Sort of... stretched, like too much butter on bread
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Jul 12, 2017 02:02
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Maybe he's stretching the bread.
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Jul 12, 2017 05:04
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butter isn't stretchy idiot
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Jul 12, 2017 05:09
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It's not? ...I should probably go see a doctor.
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Jul 13, 2017 10:57
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https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tolkien-professor/id320513707?mt=2 Tolkien prof doing a close read of the lord of the rings . Close as in close . It may take years . It's pretty amazing so far, I'm 17 episodes in.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:38
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God drat those are some long rear end episodes.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:41
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Yeah I'm on episode 17 we just left Farmer Maggot
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Jul 17, 2017 23:43
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Iirc two entire episodes were just on the meeting with Gildor et al
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Jul 17, 2017 23:44
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loving iTunes. Is there any way to get that to work in Android?
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Jul 18, 2017 02:23
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Man this guy is just unbearable to listen to
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Jul 18, 2017 02:48
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Kilson posted:loving iTunes. Is there any way to get that to work in Android? I use PlayerFM and found "Tolkien Professor" using the search function in that app, but I haven't tried to actually play any of them yet.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:03
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euphronius posted:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tolkien-professor/id320513707?mt=2
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Jul 18, 2017 03:39
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Data Graham posted:Man this guy is just unbearable to listen to Really? haha. I've probably listened to 200+ hours with no problem. He used to put his students on the mic which was unbearable. That was years ago tho.
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Jul 18, 2017 14:55
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I mean I'm probably oversensitive to certain things (lord knows there are vocal tics that have grated on me for decades) but the constant TSK sound he makes, good lord. And UHH UHH UHH UHH UHH At least he has a good vocabulary and he's not afraid to use it. Come to think of it he's head and shoulders above most of the actual professors I had. We all should be so lucky.
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Jul 18, 2017 14:59
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While we're being critical, he reminds me of that character from Goodfellas who says everything twice, says it twice, y'know
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Jul 18, 2017 15:16
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webmeister posted:While we're being critical, he reminds me of that character from Goodfellas who says everything twice, says it twice, y'know Well he's no wizard, to be sure.
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Jul 18, 2017 15:28
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You guys listen to a lot of edited pods lol.
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Jul 18, 2017 15:28
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euphronius posted:Iirc two entire episodes were just on the meeting with Gildor et al It's a very interesting part and way more important than side-story filler like Moria and Helm's Deep.
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Jul 22, 2017 00:04
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sassassin posted:It's a very interesting part and way more important than side-story filler like Moria and Helm's Deep. ok, why?
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Jul 22, 2017 01:44
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Gonna guess (from 5 episodes so far) that it's because the Gildor scene has a ton of interesting little dialogue intricacies that the podcast takes its time ferreting out, whereas Moria is just an action scene without much to analyze for meaning the way this guy likes to do.
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Jul 22, 2017 01:47
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The Moria sequence contains some of Tolkien's most effective action writing and sustained tension so I'd be surprised if podman can't make at least half a dozen episodes out of it. When he gets to it in mid-2019, I mean. But it's still good that he really picked over the Gildor scene because it's extremely important to understanding 1) Frodo as a character 2) the Noldor as a people and 3) the Quest as a quest, and also because the adaptations have systematically ignored it because nobody kills any orcs in it.
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Jul 22, 2017 02:01
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That guy is gonna die of old age before he gets to the balrog but yeah I want to hear his opinion on balrog wings
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Jul 22, 2017 02:07
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That guy is gonna die of old age before he gets to the balrog but yeah I want to hear his opinion on balrog wings I've gone back to the beginning of the whole podcast - 7 years or so ago - and he dedicated a whole episode to this question and "What is Tom Bombadil". His opinion: Balrog wings: No...... What's Tom: Ainur.... As an aside he started out super-analyzing The Hobbit and he mentions that Peter Jackson's upcoming movie (singular, hah) would probably fail for pretty much the exact reason it did - rock and a hard place trying to make it epic like LotR or being true to the light-hearted tone of the book. Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 02:32
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