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01011001 posted:What I'm getting from this is that Vampire stole all the good terminology for what they're trying to do. Yeah vampires are terminally lame unless you start counting every kind of Slavic or Nordic undead that feeds on the living as a vampire, and VtR came first as a game line, so... 
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Jul 17, 2017 17:01
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Rand Brittain posted:I don't really think that's an improvement. I feel like the "base" name of a splat needs to be something they might conceivably use in casual conversation among themselves, not a Capitalized Letter Word. Honestly, there's not gonna be a good resolution to this one, because the game was named poorly from the start. There's no getting around the fact that the main characters of a CofD gameline are going to get called by the name of the gameline, and while catchy, "geist" isn't great as a generic term for a type of being when it's just German for "ghost," which is a different (if related) type of being. Best compromise I can come up with, which won't happen, is to a) rename it Ghast, which is also not the proper name of a thing but is similar to the old name without just being another language's "ghost," and b) have the Bound be the titular ghasts, say their synergy with the bargaining death-god combines them into one material superghost, revenant-style. The Bound being the ramshackle types they are, in practice they probably get called about every synonym for "ghost" that isn't just plain old "ghost," as often spooks, spectres and phantasms as ghasts or whatever, but it needs a title that people won't get super confused about. Maybe just only do b) and keep it Geist, and come up with some goofy reason why Bound in the colonized Americas got influenced by some early German immigrant Bound and that's why they call them geister as opposed to ghosts. Outside the Americas, it's probably a less common moniker, but still recognized just through cultural dissemination.
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Jul 17, 2017 18:19
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It's not uncommon to call people by things they carry or wear, and there are few accessories more distinct that your own death-wraith. The German name catching on over the English could just be one of those quirks of language and history.
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Jul 17, 2017 18:26
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It's also not uncommon to use loanwords for a thing to refer to specific instances of a thing. "Chai" just means tea, but since English already uses "tea" as the general term, chai has come to refer to a specific kind of Indian tea blend. The German "geist" coming to refer to the specific subset of ghosts that inhabit Sin-Eaters is perfectly in line with this tendency.
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Jul 17, 2017 18:32
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So a friend of mine is running a M20 game pretty soon, I've skimmed through the book and it seems that the mechanical changes are pretty big. Would anyone mine giving a very condensed overview of how the system changed for M20?
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Jul 17, 2017 18:35
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Geist should be about playing as a Geist and possessing a once-dead body should be one of several strategies for interacting with the corporeal world!!!
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Jul 17, 2017 18:55
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Ferrinus posted:Geist should be about playing as a Geist and possessing a once-dead body should be one of several strategies for interacting with the corporeal world!!! this sounds like yet another sneaky attempt to make Wraith: Chronicles of Darkness Edition i approve wholeheartedly
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Jul 17, 2017 18:55
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Speaking of which, I'm still waiting for Wraith 20.
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Jul 17, 2017 19:54
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hangedman1984 posted:a very condensed overview of how the system changed for M20 "Satyros" and "MtAw 2e instead" (not intending to sound smug or anything, it's just that M20 is sort of a sore spot for me). MonsieurChoc posted:Speaking of which, I'm still waiting for Wraith 20. The W20 which, as it has been promised, would have a bit of Orpheus in it. 
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Jul 17, 2017 21:52
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Ironslave posted:A future veteran of the psychic wars. Well SOMEONE has to do it...
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Jul 17, 2017 22:53
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I'd been looking more closely at running a through-the-years game of VtR 2E in Lima, and I figured I'd check out my options for material. And after finally reading through Blood Sorcery, it sounds like the issue with rituals being able to get horrendous power with enough successes has been toned down a bit with 2E's limit on how many times you can roll on an extended action. That said, I'm guessing that you can still get a bit wild by pumping up your original dice pool to the pre-elder cap of 11? Or imagine that with a rote action from Professional Training 5? So it sounds like I'll still have to scrutinize anything my players might come up with, but at least they don't have the old issue of "keep rolling until you hit an arbitrarily high target because there's no limit on how many times you can roll".
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Jul 17, 2017 22:57
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Ironslave posted:A future veteran of the psychic wars. sure, fine, i guess i'm listening to BOC tonight.
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Jul 17, 2017 23:08
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MonsieurChoc posted:Speaking of which, I'm still waiting for Wraith 20.
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Jul 17, 2017 23:32
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Ferrinus posted:Geist should be about playing as a Geist and possessing a once-dead body should be one of several strategies for interacting with the corporeal world!!! All this ghost chat has got me really excited about Wraith again. 
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Jul 17, 2017 23:38
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Lord_Hambrose posted:All this ghost chat has got me really excited about Wraith again. Me too. Apparently Rose's been working with the guy and it looks like things are moving faster.
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Jul 17, 2017 23:41
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Nessus posted:I gather it is comin' along, despite the literal evil ghost curse on it. Notably it is well outpacing Exalted 3E which had far fewer evil ghosts. I'm not angry, just impatient. 
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Jul 18, 2017 00:00
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Do werewolves consider sin-eaters to be spirit-hosts or claimed? Geist doesn't show up a lot in cross-media so I don't remember if that was ever a thing. Geists are still a ghost that got more conceptual and turned part spirit, right? Like how in the Britain back during the turn of the 1700s 'Jack Ketch' was both literally a guy who was an executioner, as well as becoming a generalised term for executioners and the death penalty, so Jack Ketch is totally a Geist.
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Jul 18, 2017 01:20
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bewilderment posted:Do werewolves consider sin-eaters to be spirit-hosts or claimed? Geist doesn't show up a lot in cross-media so I don't remember if that was ever a thing. The Pack, as is customary for 2e material, says that it varies. From werewolf to werewolf obviously, but it also notes that as a rule Storm Lords are suspicious of them and consider them Claimed but Bone Shadows are more accepting as they have a greater understanding of the realms and nuances of death. It also makes the observation the werewolves and sin-eaters actually have fairly compatible philosophies, as they fill essentially the same role but for the realms of spirits and ghosts respectively. Their ideas of "krewe" and "pack" also translate fairly well.
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Jul 18, 2017 01:30
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Geists are ghosts but it's wod so events must transpire so that they look exactly like normal people the majority of the time. Just like how Beasts totally have a soul of a kraken or whatever but are actually just a dude.
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Jul 18, 2017 01:35
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ZeroCount posted:Geists are ghosts but it's wod so events must transpire so that they look exactly like normal people the majority of the time. Just like how Beasts totally have a soul of a kraken or whatever but are actually just a dude. I remember reading the kickstarter preview thing and being disappointed that they had all these neat monster powers like clawing the gently caress out of folks and thrashing tentacles, except they were all invisible "phantom limb" deals. That still a thing?
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Jul 18, 2017 01:41
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ZeroCount posted:Geists are ghosts but it's wod so events must transpire so that they look exactly like normal people the majority of the time. Just like how Beasts totally have a soul of a kraken or whatever but are actually just a dude. Geist takes cues from the more lighthearted end of things, like the Frighteners. Geists don't have to look like normal people, some of the example ones are pretty freaky, but Sin-Eaters basically are normal humans, they just share their soul with a ghost. I always got pushback for saying so but it's like first edition werewolf but with ghosts instead of spirits. quote:Dregs’ geist is something he calls the Ravenous Storm, a personification of constantly moving, bitterly cold and ever-hungry wind. It appears as a translucent figure with a great, gaping maw and is always accompanied by inexplicably bitter gusts of wind. Ravenous Storm is easily half-again as tall as a mortal man, nearly two-dimensional, and covered in a tattered shroud that whips and snaps with each icy gust. And yeah, Terrorforge, the Beast thing being subtle is still in.
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Jul 18, 2017 02:51
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ZeroCount posted:Geists are ghosts but it's wod so events must transpire so that they look exactly like normal people the majority of the time. Just like how Beasts totally have a soul of a kraken or whatever but are actually just a dude.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:10
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Nessus posted:Well obviously. If the situation isn't visually similar to modern-day reality with maybe a couple of close touches, how can we get that ineffable urban fantasy je ne sais quoi? The urban fantasy part is currently tripping me up. I'm planning a Demon game in a small town and trying to figure out how to integrate my players into the setting without an ex-policeman, a priest, and an off-duty military doctor all moving to town at once and poking their noses into things being too weird for the locals. And that's just the half of the players who have submitted character sheets so far. I'm sure I'll come up with something, but it's interesting how the World of Darkness games tend to automatically assume the anonymity of a large city.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:15
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The urban fantasy part is currently tripping me up. I'm planning a Demon game in a small town and trying to figure out how to integrate my players into the setting without an ex-policeman, a priest, and an off-duty military doctor all moving to town at once and poking their noses into things being too weird for the locals. And that's just the half of the players who have submitted character sheets so far.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:24
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The priest is a local, so is the cop. Local projects! The Machine likes this rural area, for reasons. Their covers have been around since they were angels. Remember, the Machine loses track when you Fall because the part that knew who you were was you.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:26
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The urban fantasy part is currently tripping me up. I'm planning a Demon game in a small town and trying to figure out how to integrate my players into the setting without an ex-policeman, a priest, and an off-duty military doctor all moving to town at once and poking their noses into things being too weird for the locals. And that's just the half of the players who have submitted character sheets so far. Really this seems like it writes itself if you just make them mostly all a part of the town, talk to your players about it and see if they can work it into their backstory. Priest: already the local priest. Recently acquired cover or long-term, who knows? Off-duty military doctor: there's a military base nearby for whatever reason, mildoc got reassigned after their tour to somewhere meant to be more boring. Having the cover being taken early in their military career, just before the transfer, or en-route to the transfer can all be interesting. Then you can have your ex-policeman being another fish out of water and can probably leave it as is.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:27
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Nessus posted:I'm not an up to date Demonhead but could they not acquire local covers? Alternately, assume that their local covers are for the most part already integrated in that community. If it's like one new guy that's different from if it's six. They're newbies, most of 'em only have Primum 1, and thus can only have one Cover. Making some of them locals is probably what I'll go with. It wasn't my original plan but it's definitely the most natural solution.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:30
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You can also have the priest getting transferred him, Father Ted style.
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Jul 18, 2017 03:33
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nofather posted:Geist takes cues from the more lighthearted end of things, like the Frighteners. Geists don't have to look like normal people, some of the example ones are pretty freaky, but Sin-Eaters basically are normal humans, they just share their soul with a ghost. I always got pushback for saying so but it's like first edition werewolf but with ghosts instead of spirits. Yeah I meant Sin-Eaters, not Geists. The fact that the name of the splat isn't the name of the splat is another weird little issue Geist has.
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Jul 18, 2017 04:22
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:They're newbies, most of 'em only have Primum 1, and thus can only have one Cover. They don't have to be using their first Cover, though. Depending on how badly they want to be in this new place and how attached they were to their original Cover they could have ditched it in favor of a soul pact with some local. Or (and this is some advanced demon poo poo, the rules for which can be found in Interface) they could entrust their beloved initial Cover to an associate for safekeeping. Bonus drama point if said associate is another PC or their ally, or if another PC at least helped facilitate the deal. Demon is a game a of favors, blackmail and distrust after all.
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Jul 18, 2017 12:49
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Can someone please explain to me how the Lucifuge fits with the rest of the setting? I love the idea of them but they just don't make sense to me. How am I supposed to be able to use them?
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Jul 18, 2017 14:38
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Xinder posted:Can someone please explain to me how the Lucifuge fits with the rest of the setting? I love the idea of them but they just don't make sense to me. How am I supposed to be able to use them? They are a group of occultist decended from demons that deny their evil heritage and use their dark powers to defend the world from evil, especially demons? What's the problem?
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Jul 18, 2017 15:04
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Xinder posted:Can someone please explain to me how the Lucifuge fits with the rest of the setting? I love the idea of them but they just don't make sense to me. How am I supposed to be able to use them? They have a very extensive bloodline that grants them supernatural powers. They believe they get their powers from some catholic demon, but what actually is granting that power is up to you.
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Jul 18, 2017 15:08
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Xinder posted:Can someone please explain to me how the Lucifuge fits with the rest of the setting? I love the idea of them but they just don't make sense to me. How am I supposed to be able to use them? They represent what is by now a fairly venerable fantasy version of what is itself an age-old philosophical question - when, if ever, is it morally acceptable to do wrong to prevent wrong? In this case, is it acceptable to use supernatural powers with indisputably evil origin in the pursuit of good? And because it's the world of darkness, are they even pursuing good, or are they unwitting pawns of the very infernal forces they claim to oppose? In the context of a Hunter story, their purpose is to ask the PCs "how far are you willing to go?" Both in the sense of "would you deal with hell and its demons if it gave you the strength to do what you must?" and "is a good person with the same agenda as you who uses the weapons of the enemy friend or foe?" Which of course leads to the bigger Hunter questions of whether it's the actions or the powers of supernatural beings that make them monsters.
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Jul 18, 2017 15:16
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Yawgmoth posted:They have a very extensive bloodline that grants them supernatural powers. They believe they get their powers from some catholic demon, but what actually is granting that power is up to you. "Demon" is a term that once got thrown around in a different way before Demon was released and it does have a blurb regarding it. I think, at one point, it was meant to be assumed that the demons of the Lucifuge were the same as the ones in Inferno, but I can't recall.
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Jul 18, 2017 15:24
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Xelkelvos posted:"Demon" is a term that once got thrown around in a different way before Demon was released and it does have a blurb regarding it. I think, at one point, it was meant to be assumed that the demons of the Lucifuge were the same as the ones in Inferno, but I can't recall. That's probably true, but there's also a note stating that for the purposes of Castigation rites (and the limited metaphysical understanding of most hunters), "demon" is a catchall term for any entity that does not originate from the material plane.
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Jul 18, 2017 15:38
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One of Hunter's themes that I love and am trying to get into my game is simply "Do the ends justify the means?" Some of my players have expressed an interest in developing supernatural abilities. One Hunter is obsessed with vampires to the point he's thinking of becoming one if the opportunity presents itself. Another is seeking a way to channel what he feels as his "inner light" into actual manifestations of photokinesis. Whether that will come from God, the devil or psychic phenomena is yet to be explored. I told them the pursuit of power will change their characters. They're down with it.
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Jul 18, 2017 16:05
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crime fighting hog posted:One of Hunter's themes that I love and am trying to get into my game is simply "Do the ends justify the means?" I've always felt Cheiron would work well as the Mephistopheles in that situation. On the surface they look like a good option because they sidestep the whole "eternal damnation" issue you get with most other sources of supernatural power, but in truth they're far more predatory than even the most rapacious vampire. Sure, a demon will take your sister in exchange for the ability to throw lightning bolts and a vampire will force you to do its bidding for centuries, but Cheiron owns you. Count Vladislav may not have your best interests in mind, but at least you're a valuable piece in his game; to the Cheiron brass you're just post #11629 on a cost/benefit spreadsheet. When it comes to your vampire aficionado, I'd suggest making him a ghoul. It's a logical step on the path to getting a vampire to
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Jul 18, 2017 16:35
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The Lucifuge are also where you can make Hellboy, and not having a Hellboy variety of Hunters would be the worst kind of failure.
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Jul 18, 2017 17:22
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Btw, I heartily support Age of Piracy Geist since it allows you and your Krewe to sail the high seas and do whatever it is that Geists do like avenge/make more dead people. If it's meant to take place primarily around the Atlantic and largely at the various islands and ports Hunter or even Changeling or Demon would be good as the second splat due to the major currents of Colonialism influencing the whole thing mixed with trade and politics. I really cannot see Mages being so affected in that part of the world unless it focuses on the interactions between Colonial and Tribal mages. That'd be it's own little Dark Era though. i'd really be interested (if they could hit a second Stretch Goal) if they did The Great Game in Central Asia with Demon and maybe Vampire. A period where Russia and the British Empire vied to stem the other and add India to its crown. Maybe post-occupation Japan with Deviant and possibly Changeling from the late 50s to the bubble period. The period where Japan went from just another country in East Asia to a technological and economic leader as well as a period of major Westernization, student rebellions, and the flourishing of anime, manga, and tokusatsu.
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Jul 18, 2017 20:36
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