p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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JewKiller 3000: Nov 28, 2006; by Lowtax

when comparing data structures you should consider the implementation as well as the interface. sure, an array basically looks like a map where the index is the key. but the expected implementation of something called "array" in C-derived languages is "a contiguous area of memory so that indexing is just a pointer offset". this kind of guaranteed constant time access is important for many algorithms, where you can't just fake it with a hash of ints and hope the amortization works out

# ? Jul 18, 2017 05:57

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 11:06

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

sarehu posted:

When your keys are, like, non-sparse numbers?

An example would be an array holding info about every block in a database file.

gently caress off shrughes

# ? Jul 18, 2017 06:59

Sweeper: Nov 29, 2007; The Joe Buck of Posting; Dinosaur Gum

sarehu posted:

When your keys are, like, non-sparse numbers?

An example would be an array holding info about every block in a database file.

is this a real post

# ? Jul 18, 2017 12:07

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

is this just fantasy?

# ? Jul 18, 2017 12:24

carry on then: Jul 10, 2010; by VideoGames
(and can't post for 10 years!)

caught in a LAN slide

# ? Jul 18, 2017 13:17

AWWNAW: Dec 30, 2008

no escape from banality

# ? Jul 18, 2017 13:28

Sagacity: May 2, 2003; Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

open your IDEs

# ? Jul 18, 2017 14:13

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

look up the standards for C

# ? Jul 18, 2017 15:00

necrotic: Aug 2, 2005; I owe my brother big time for this!

im just a plang boy

# ? Jul 18, 2017 16:21

AWWNAW: Dec 30, 2008

eventual consistency

# ? Jul 18, 2017 17:04

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

my bugs are easy come, easy go

# ? Jul 18, 2017 17:05

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

round it high, round it low

# ? Jul 18, 2017 17:08

JewKiller 3000: Nov 28, 2006; by Lowtax

macos or windows, doesn't really matter to me

# ? Jul 18, 2017 17:14

motedek: Oct 9, 2012

cinci zoo sniper posted:

im not surprised, if he is anything his programs are then we have radically different opinions on things

i've drifted from anti- to neutral on the hadleyverse. it's very elegant for a subset of workflows that happen to make up a big chunk of day to day analysis, but even if you master the DSL you're still stuck with the language as a whole.

# ? Jul 18, 2017 17:14

JewKiller 3000: Nov 28, 2006; by Lowtax

god dammit motedek.

# ? Jul 18, 2017 17:15

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

i sometimes wish id never been bourne at all

# ? Jul 18, 2017 17:26

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

motedek posted:

i've drifted from anti- to neutral on the hadleyverse. it's very elegant for a subset of workflows that happen to make up a big chunk of day to day analysis, but even if you master the DSL you're still stuck with the language as a whole.

generally speaking im neutral about the hadleyverse, but mainly because im too lame to have strong coding opinions. thatd be like me waltzing in now with a tirade about shortcommings of punctuation in mongolian or something.

nonetheless, its opinionated af, and that i dont really like. ill take any amount of suggestion every day of the week, but not enforcing them in obtuse ways, or making backwardish implementations of your opinions in packages. for how much i heard about ggplot or studio, im fairly disappointed in both.

r itself is a whole another bag of something, but i havent made it far into advanced r stuff, and my new job researcha and learning phase is coming to an end, so i probably wont get until oop and poo poo for a while. hopefuly if ever, since ive heard that one of my coworkers had to write a custom faux-multithreaded implementation of certain popular algorithms for a typical-ish job task. going to try to squeeze a different lang if a time for that comes at some point, even python.

# ? Jul 18, 2017 17:28

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

i sometimes wish id never been bourne at all

Now this one needs no editing to apply to programming

# ? Jul 18, 2017 17:29

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

Mama
Just killed program
Memory usage in the red
Had to C-C now it's dead

# ? Jul 18, 2017 18:57

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

code:

look()
if (self.count("shot") == 1) or (self.count("opportunity") == 1):
    seize(lambda x: x.start(), wanted)

    try: 
        moment.capture()
    except:
        moment.let_slip()

self.palms.sweaty = True
self.knees.weak = True
self.sweater.append("vomit") 
self.arms.heavy = True
spaghetti.owner = self.parent  
self.nervous = True
#TODO:
# set a public property to calm and ready
# to drop bombs
while True:
    del writtenRhymes

# ? Jul 18, 2017 18:59

my new dog: May 7, 2007; by Nyc_Tattoo

Parent spaghetti

# ? Jul 18, 2017 19:03

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

VikingofRock posted:

Nothing really matters
Expressive ADTs
Nothing really matters
Nothing really matters
Nothing really matters
To meeee~~~

# ? Jul 18, 2017 20:54

Plorkyeran: Mar 22, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

sarehu posted:

When your keys are, like, non-sparse numbers?

An example would be an array holding info about every block in a database file.

then you want dictionary semantics, and as an optimization store the values in a contiguous array with implied keys

# ? Jul 18, 2017 21:21

sarehu: Apr 20, 2007; (call/cc call/cc)

Actually you don't want a simple array or vector because it's expensive to grow, come to think of it... but anyway, an array is just a dictionary with mandatory relationships between valid key values combined with algebraic structure. For example, you can make a dictionary whose keys are bit strings with the restriction that every prefix of a bit string is an element of the dictionary, and have append operations where one dictionary's strings get prefixed by an element of the other. So yeah, arrays are just a kind of dictionary.

# ? Jul 18, 2017 21:37

AWWNAW: Dec 30, 2008

sarehu posted:

For example, you can make a dictionary whose keys are bit strings with the restriction that every prefix of a bit string is an element of the dictionary, and have append operations where one dictionary's strings get prefixed by an element of the other.

what why

# ? Jul 18, 2017 22:51

Sweeper: Nov 29, 2007; The Joe Buck of Posting; Dinosaur Gum

sarehu posted:

Actually you don't want a simple array or vector because it's expensive to grow, come to think of it... but anyway, an array is just a dictionary with mandatory relationships between valid key values combined with algebraic structure. For example, you can make a dictionary whose keys are bit strings with the restriction that every prefix of a bit string is an element of the dictionary, and have append operations where one dictionary's strings get prefixed by an element of the other. So yeah, arrays are just a kind of dictionary.

stop triggering me

# ? Jul 18, 2017 23:01

MeruFM: Jul 27, 2010

sarehu posted:

Actually you don't want a simple array or vector because it's expensive to grow, come to think of it... but anyway, an array is just a dictionary with mandatory relationships between valid key values combined with algebraic structure. For example, you can make a dictionary whose keys are bit strings with the restriction that every prefix of a bit string is an element of the dictionary, and have append operations where one dictionary's strings get prefixed by an element of the other. So yeah, arrays are just a kind of dictionary.

in other news
hurrrr

# ? Jul 19, 2017 01:06

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

i like bignums and i cannot lie

# ? Jul 19, 2017 02:23

Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

arrays are after all just a special case of bignums

# ? Jul 19, 2017 11:32

Mr SuperAwesome: Apr 6, 2011; im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

u (stupid): arrays are dictionaries
me (smart): both dictionaries and arrays are a special case of the digits of pi, if u really think about it

Mr SuperAwesome fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Jul 19, 2017

# ? Jul 19, 2017 11:35

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Mr SuperAwesome posted:

u (stupid): arrays are dictionaries
me (smart): both and arrays are a special case of the digits of pi, if u really think about it

arrays are sometimes multidimensional strings

# ? Jul 19, 2017 12:14

DONT THREAD ON ME: Oct 1, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo; Floss Finder

VikingofRock posted:

But don't most interpreted / dynamic languages carry around type information at runtime? I know python does, and I'm pretty sure most flavors of lisp do, too.

Yeah good point. I think the more important issue is probably applying the type checks themselves at runtime. The more complex your type system is, the more costly this becomes.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 13:43

Fergus Mac Roich: Nov 5, 2008; Soiled Meat

I had this really funny notion in my head that an array is a data structure and a dictionary is a data type

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:16

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

there are a lot of languages which call their basic sequence data type an array because arrays are the obviously superior implementation mechanism for sequences unless your language pushes you super hard towards functional-style head/tail construction and decomposition

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:22

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

MALE SHOEGAZE posted:

Yeah good point. I think the more important issue is probably applying the type checks themselves at runtime. The more complex your type system is, the more costly this becomes.

Yeah but I think most dynamic languages also perform type checks at runtime. For example, in both Python 2 and 3 "11" + 1 throws a runtime error, and I'm pretty sure in most lisps (+ "11" 1) is an error as well. So it's gotta be something else.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 19:10

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

reminder that "11" + 1 is valid in java, which completely statically and predictably converts the int to a string and gets on with doing the obvious correct thing

the problem is languages that think the result should be 12, or (god forbid) "12"

# ? Jul 19, 2017 19:18

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

all of these decisions are purely arbitrary automated type casting and conversions and it doesn't matter if it's done at runtime or at compile time, you just gotta learn them.

Like I don't doubt you could have a language or compiler with enough type information at some point to make the decision JS makes, but at compile time. You just gotta go and "well if this is + operator is called with an integer and a string, instead delegate to this method/function instead." There you're done. The compiler knows about the dispatch rules, the branching is not done at run-time, and it is still idiotic.

It just happens that for most of the time, dynamic languages are the ones that do it, but there is nothing asking for this to happen. The behaviour is separate from when the type checking takes place.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 20:07

Doom Mathematic: Sep 2, 2008

"Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this!"

"Then don't do that."

# ? Jul 19, 2017 20:43

Dylan16807: May 12, 2010

concatenation and addition shouldn't use the same operator, at least not in the presence of any coercion

# ? Jul 19, 2017 21:02

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 11:06

MononcQc: May 29, 2007

As long as you can dispatch implementations based on type signatures, nothing keeps you from doing something like

+(Float, Float) => Float
+(Float, Int) => Float
+(Int, Float) => Float
+(Int, Int) => Int
+(String, Int) => String
+(String, String) => String
+(Int, String) => Int
+(Int, Bool) => Float
+(Bool, Bool) => String

Like all these variations of the operators could be dispatched and tolerated fine by any compiler out there. They don't have to make sense, you just have to be able to analyze types at compile time and dispatch.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 21:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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