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So the new Wrinkle to Nen this arc is abilities that can only be perceived by specific individuals. Before it was just hiding abilities with 'In' but now it's full on selective visibility with how these Nen Beasts, and Kurapika's dolphin function. I'm also loving the information warfare going on this arc. Benjamin and his right hand man have quickly become the more interesting parts of the last two chapters (not like the rest is bad or anything) as they work through the logic of what is going on. They are both competent and I like that. Contrast this with Chrollo and his group trying to figure out the identity and methods of the Chain Guy and this is a nice parallel to York Shin. I'm also surprised nobody has mentioned the latest function of the magical dolphin. I have always hesitated to say that Kurapika's power set is "broken" or "OP" because I think it balances out by only really working optimally in a 1v1 scenario with ET. But now not only can he attach an ability onto a second target, even if they do not know Nen and freely steal another ability. He also can retain an ability after the death of the user (and I highly doubt Yessir man triggers the Nen after Death phenomenon). Even with the realization that Emperor Time shortens his life, and I judge Togashi to be the kind of author to make that a meaningful drawback, that's pretty much OP by this world's standards. He can steal your ability and only needs to stab you, he doesn't even need to learn it's name or function because his dolphin can perform the analysis which is unlike the previous two theft abilities shown. Then he can give it to anyone, maybe consent is needed as a requirement, and then steal again. It's not Broken since it still relies on his opponent letting themselves get stabbed, but man if this isn't something that feels a little too powerful. I also have noticed that since the Chrollo vs Hisoka fight Togashi has really started to front load explaining the specific rules and functions of how all the nen abilities at play function. I expect that for the cruise, the two rules that govern the Nen Beasts, and any rules regarding the Steal Chain are going to be thoroughly toyed with and maybe even bent as the series goes on. I think given that we know that the parasites feed off Aura, and learning Nen allows you to control the flow, it might be possible that a prince that is quick on the uptake could compel his beast to operate more directly under his control through the use of Zetsu to "starve" it and Ren to "Feed" it more. There is a lot going on this arc and I'm loving it.
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Jul 18, 2017 04:55
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Kurapika can however only use the ability once.
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Jul 18, 2017 04:59
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Yeah, it's more like borrowing it a la Leol than a complete theft the way Chrollo does it. It does, of course, steal it away for a while, but he only gets one shot, which then gives him the problem of how to use that one shot, both to make it effective and, depending on the ability, how to use it at all so he doesn't just kill himself with his ability.
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Jul 18, 2017 07:06
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i'm not sure if kurapika has to use a nen he steals or if he can get rid of it in some other way. if it isn't the latter, then it is downright suicidal to use that chain indiscriminately. for example, the nen remover from greed island. he had to do a lengthy ritual, the specifics of which might not be transferred via theft, after which it was constantly active until whatever weird creature the removed effect was transformed into dissipated. kurapika might simply die of old age before that process completed, because emperor time would be active the entire time until he used it once. and yet, kurapika is using as a means of disabling people he knows nothing about.
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Jul 18, 2017 07:24
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It's a good thing for Chrollo Kurapika didn't have this during the Yorknew Arc. I'm pretty sure 'one use' of Chrollo's book could include using it to permanently steal Chrollo's book.
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Jul 18, 2017 08:49
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Tunicate posted:It's a good thing for Chrollo Kurapika didn't have this during the Yorknew Arc. I'm pretty sure 'one use' of Chrollo's book could include using it to permanently steal Chrollo's book. No because as soon as he used it Chrollo would get it back and if he didn't use it holding it for a week or more it's literal suicide
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Jul 18, 2017 08:53
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Jesus christ I hate when there are "shortens the users life span" limitations on poo poo. It feels like such lazy writing.
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Jul 18, 2017 09:02
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Man with Hat posted:Jesus christ I hate when there are "shortens the users life span" limitations on poo poo. It feels like such lazy writing. I thought the same thing until I read this chapter. Having such specific and severe limitations on it sets it apart from the usual "YOU'RE VAGUELY SHORTENING YOUR LIFE" shonen exclamations. Kurapika doing the math until the banquet and realizing "I would absolutely loving die before then, I need to lose this and fast" was great.
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Jul 18, 2017 09:23
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Except in this case we have a solid number on how much his lifespan is reduced, to the point of the above: Kurapika will just straight up die if he spends over a week total in Emperor Time. Given how long they will be on the boat, the Nen beasts and everything else about the succession war, how his stealing chain works (forced ET until he successfully uses or transfers what he stole), and that the Spiders and Hisoka are almost certainly on board, this is an actual huge drawback. Written this way, it adds another layer to the insane tactical plots and mindgames in this arc, instead of just being a nebulous penalty with no real stakes.
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Jul 18, 2017 09:23
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Schubalts posted:Except in this case we have a solid number on how much his lifespan is reduced, to the point of the above: Kurapika will just straight up die if he spends over a week total in Emperor Time. Given how long they will be on the boat, the Nen beasts and everything else about the succession war, how his stealing chain works (forced ET until he successfully uses or transfers what he stole), and that the Spiders and Hisoka are almost certainly on board, this is an actual huge drawback. Written this way, it adds another layer to the insane tactical plots and mindgames in this arc, instead of just being a nebulous penalty with no real stakes. Actually it appears he is forced into ET if the person he transfers it into uses it as well, unless I misunderstood.
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Jul 18, 2017 14:07
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He can use the Steal Chain without Emperor Time, though, right? It's only the dolphin thing and the ability to use the stolen Hatsu that requires ET? Because he still can deprive the enemy of their ability with seemingly no limitation whatsoever.
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Jul 18, 2017 14:30
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So would a valid Kurapika counter be to trick him into stealing an ability he can't use? Like, say, some vengeance ability conditioned to only work on one specific person in the world who just happens to not be around at the moment.
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Jul 18, 2017 15:15
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Bisse posted:So would a valid Kurapika counter be to trick him into stealing an ability he can't use? Like, say, some vengeance ability conditioned to only work on one specific person in the world who just happens to not be around at the moment. Yep. If he happened to steal an ability similar to his chain jail he's hosed.
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Jul 18, 2017 16:30
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Bisse posted:So would a valid Kurapika counter be to trick him into stealing an ability he can't use? Like, say, some vengeance ability conditioned to only work on one specific person in the world who just happens to not be around at the moment. Yes, but he isn't stupid. Last chapter he outright states that he didn't want to risk stealing the other guy's ability because he had no idea how it worked, so it could end up being dangerous to himself. You'd need to first outsmart him, convince him that your ability is useful at any given time so he can get rid of it.
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Jul 18, 2017 16:40
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And you can ascribe a lot of things to Kurapika, but stupid ain't one of them.
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Jul 18, 2017 17:58
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If he gets one of those highly dangerous abilities, transferring it to a normal person would probably be the best choice. Still risky as they would be much easier to coerce into turning it on. I'm not clear on whether or not Kurapika's aura is powering the power when used by others.
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Jul 18, 2017 19:29
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TurkeyFried posted:If he gets one of those highly dangerous abilities, transferring it to a normal person would probably be the best choice. Still risky as they would be much easier to coerce into turning it on. I think it is, so that is still dangerous to him.
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Jul 18, 2017 19:35
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EmmyOk posted:No because as soon as he used it Chrollo would get it back and if he didn't use it holding it for a week or more it's literal suicide Kurapika's chain is one use of Skill Hunter. Skill Hunter's power is 'if you meet these conditions, permanently steal an ability'. If Kurapika used Skill Hunter to steal Skill Hunter, Chrollo wouldn't get it back because it's not his power anymore.
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Jul 18, 2017 19:43
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He'd be effectively signing his own death warrent. Even if he kept skill hunter without ET being active permanently, it'd only be a matter of time before a certain murder clown came after him.
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Jul 18, 2017 19:48
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Chrollo also knows the rules of his ability so he'd refuse to answer questions about it or place his hand on the cover. If Kurapika is in a position to promise chain Chrollo to compel him to do those Chrollo would choose death anyway
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Jul 18, 2017 20:33
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Assuming it could even steal itself
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Jul 18, 2017 20:33
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The whole explanation of how 1 second in Emperor Time is 1 hour less for him and how he has to take care of not being in a situation where he cannot use the stolen power to finish ET is suspicious. It gives me the impression is all setup done by Togashi, and there will be an unexpected problem in some moment later (maybe a nen ability from someone whose effect he couldn't predict?) that will cause precisely that, he won't be able to 'turn off' ET directly.
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Jul 18, 2017 20:46
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EmmyOk posted:Assuming it could even steal itself I doubt it would be able to, myself. Not because of anything said before, though, but because it wouldn't be there to steal while Kurapika has it. Chrollo wouldn't have the ability then, so Skill Hunter wouldn't have anything to take. I could be wrong, mind, but, it seems like a simple enough thing to stop it to me.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:08
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Roland Jones posted:I doubt it would be able to, myself. Not because of anything said before, though, but because it wouldn't be there to steal while Kurapika has it. Chrollo wouldn't have the ability then, so Skill Hunter wouldn't have anything to take. If Kurapika had it and Chrollo didn't, seems like Kurapika stealing it from Kurapika would be even easier.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:21
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Tunicate posted:If Kurapika had it and Chrollo didn't, seems like Kurapika stealing it from Kurapika would be even easier. Stealing Skill Hunter from yourself would be even weirder. I think that's against the spirit of what Chrollo would consider "stealing" and thus not work either.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:25
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TurkeyFried posted:If he gets one of those highly dangerous abilities, transferring it to a normal person would probably be the best choice. Still risky as they would be much easier to coerce into turning it on. he just said that there was a time limit on oito using the bug control nen, while thinking of the duration of emperor time. granted nen still keeps et up. but oddly enough, kurapika didn't seem concerned about what would happen after a bug was controlled. the guy he took it from didn't specify a time limit for its effect, just the limitations of its use.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:37
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Roland Jones posted:Stealing Skill Hunter from yourself would be even weirder. I think that's against the spirit of what Chrollo would consider "stealing" and thus not work either. On the other hand, working around restrictions on powers through rules lawyering loopholes on them is 100% Chrollo's favorite hobby, so it could go either way. Kurapika probably came up with the power stealing after the fact, thinking 'drat I could have stolen that and the memory power too, better set that up for next time'.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:38
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Persumably once the ability is activated even if it causes a continuous effect the drain on kurapika ends.
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Jul 19, 2017 04:59
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Tunicate posted:Kurapika's chain is one use of Skill Hunter. Skill Hunter's power is 'if you meet these conditions, permanently steal an ability'. Nah. Skill Hunter requires Chrollo to have the book open to use any of the abilities he's stolen, so unless Kurapika can summon the book on his own (which he can't) then he can't use Skill Hunter even if it's theoretically in his book. He would have to open the book in order to summon the book, catch 22. Edit: I suppose Chrollo might lose it though, I was just thinking about Kurapika having it. Clarste fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 05:22
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i was just thinking that a cool scene would be if a nen stealer stole someone's ability and then used their ability against the original user in a totally different inventive and effective way within the same restrictions. like, true domination. you'd have to trick the audience too to make the scene awesome. you'd have Nen User A using a seemingly awesome ability and then Nen User SSS totally recontextualizing it
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Jul 19, 2017 05:37
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I feel like that's what Ging did with Leorio's ability. I doubt Leorio could use it nearly as well as Ging did.
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Jul 19, 2017 07:15
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Not really nen (or maybe, but nen wasn't introduced yet), but during the Hunter Exams Hisoka fought against a former examiner he maimed in his previous (which led to his disqualification back then) and had a bit of trouble figuring out his fighting style, but then got the hang of it and ended up killing him by catching his weapons in mid-air. I like to assume Hisoka then killed the dude with his own weapons. Granted, he could have just cut off the dude's head with his cards, but it seems more poetic to assume that he did it with the weapons.
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Jul 19, 2017 08:40
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Clarste posted:I feel like that's what Ging did with Leorio's ability. I doubt Leorio could use it nearly as well as Ging did. I believe there's still no explanation for that other than "Ging is OP." I'm guessing his ability is that he can copy someone else's ability if he sees it (and probably can only do it once each time he's seen it)
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Jul 19, 2017 10:48
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Xelkelvos posted:I believe there's still no explanation for that other than "Ging is OP." I'm guessing his ability is that he can copy someone else's ability if he sees it (and probably can only do it once each time he's seen it) He outright says he's using Leorio's power to avoid showing pariston his own, and from the beginning he's been established as one of the top nen users in the world, so I'd say that it's just him being OP.
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Jul 19, 2017 11:03
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Xelkelvos posted:I believe there's still no explanation for that other than "Ging is OP." I'm guessing his ability is that he can copy someone else's ability if he sees it (and probably can only do it once each time he's seen it) He can imitate any Hatsu that physically strikes him.  But he also figured out how it works by thinking like a doctor. 
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Jul 19, 2017 11:36
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You'd think hunters would make a bunch of throw away techniques they don't mind using in front of others
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Jul 19, 2017 13:25
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Considering how much time it takes to develop a technique worth using at all, if it was me putting my life on the line i'd rather have one rock-solid technique which I knew how to use well, than a few mediocre tricks that accomplish nothing. Basically i'd rather be Morel than Cheetu.
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Jul 19, 2017 13:36
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Xelkelvos posted:I believe there's still no explanation for that other than "Ging is OP." I'm guessing his ability is that he can copy someone else's ability if he sees it (and probably can only do it once each time he's seen it) Why do so many people believe that this is his hatsu? As if we don't already have enough of those... Wind explained early on that you can totally just copy someones ability, but it simply wont be as strong for you, since you lack the personal connection to it that makes nen abilities so powerful. Ging simply figured Leorios ability, but Leorio is an absolute beginner and Ging is one of the most skilled Nen users in the world, so he was still able to use it at a much higher level than Leorio was. Seriously, this kind of "When all you have is a hammer" thinking presents HxH as a much worse story than it actually is! e X fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 14:08
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Hunter X Hunter is a long story and I've forgotten the details of a lot of stuff that happened over the series. The hiatuses don't help.
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Jul 19, 2017 14:11
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Wasn't there also that guy waaaaaaay back in the Tower arc whose name I forget that Hisoka killed, who also trained some essentially throwaway skills outside of his natural inclination and got dunked because of it?Xelkelvos posted:Hunter X Hunter is a long story and I've forgotten the details of a lot of stuff that happened over the series. The hiatuses don't help.
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Jul 19, 2017 15:38
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