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Play Mage Knight if you're looking for a good heavier 2P game absolutely incredible fun and feels perfect at 2
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Jul 19, 2017 02:41
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teacup posted:I'm hoping for something either cooperative or competitive but if competitive then nothing insane like in Cataan you are just cockblocking poo poo. I don't know if I'm really narrowing it down. If you find Catan insanely competitive, that really narrows down your options. Even 7 Wonders Duel, which I think is an excellent light/medium 2-player game, is going to be more competitive than Catan. Castles of Burgundy is very highly regarded, and you might really enjoy it for one of the reasons I don't: it can turn into multi-player solitaire. Do you enjoy Magic-style pre-game deck construction? If so, LOTR LCG is co-op and not as heavy or as fiddly as Gloomhaven--but if you enjoy it, you'll quickly grow tired of the base game and start dumping a ton of money into the bazillion scenarios and expansions.
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Jul 19, 2017 02:46
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The Narrator posted:No, but you can draw a line from Rosenberg designing Patchwork and then deciding to use the shape-arranging mechanic in in Feast for Odin. I know they're very different games, I'm just interested in seeing the evolution from "this is a neat little concept" to the concept being used as one part of a bigger game. I don't mean to discourage you, A Feast for Odin is a good game, as is Patchwork, and they are indeed connected (the other way around, as was mentioned). In fact, the spatial puzzley bit in A Feast for Odin is much less developed than Patchwork, which is what makes them not very much alike, even leaving aside all the rest of A Feast for Odin. You alluded to the leaving things blank and the things not touching, and that's . . . pretty much it. You get tons of 1x1s and most of the pieces are quadrilaterals. It's only if you do the raiding or the blacksmithing(?) that you get any odd-shaped pieces at all.
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Jul 19, 2017 02:56
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Anyone have tips on how to teach Tash Kalar? I tried to go by the guide written by Vlaada, but I found it difficult to explain to my wife the difference between standard moves and combat moves and why Heroic pieces are much more beneficial than basic pieces. She also struggled with the concept of Flares, but I think she finally got the hang of those after she spent a few turns demolishing my pieces...and then I picked up a 3 point task to win the game.
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Jul 19, 2017 03:09
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homullus posted:I don't mean to discourage you, A Feast for Odin is a good game, as is Patchwork, and they are indeed connected (the other way around, as was mentioned). In fact, the spatial puzzley bit in A Feast for Odin is much less developed than Patchwork, which is what makes them not very much alike, even leaving aside all the rest of A Feast for Odin. You alluded to the leaving things blank and the things not touching, and that's . . . pretty much it. You get tons of 1x1s and most of the pieces are quadrilaterals. It's only if you do the raiding or the blacksmithing(?) that you get any odd-shaped pieces at all. Fair enough, I understand your response now. I'm probably just looking for an excuse that justifies getting AFfO, in any case, though it's not at the top of my wishlist at the moment.
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Jul 19, 2017 03:17
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Aggro posted:Anyone have tips on how to teach Tash Kalar? I tried to go by the guide written by Vlaada, but I found it difficult to explain to my wife the difference between standard moves and combat moves and why Heroic pieces are much more beneficial than basic pieces. She also struggled with the concept of Flares, but I think she finally got the hang of those after she spent a few turns demolishing my pieces...and then I picked up a 3 point task to win the game. They kind of word it this way in the rulebook anyway, but tell her to just think of it exactly as it's worded; A "combat" move sounds more aggressive and allows a piece to punch at its own weight, whereas a "standard" move sounds less aggressive and means the piece has to be more powerful to displace something. If that part clicks it should be fairly obvious why heroic pieces are good in their ability to just casually walk over commons but still take out other heroics in combat if need be, alongside effective immunity to commons as well since you can't punch up.
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Jul 19, 2017 03:24
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Aggro posted:Anyone have tips on how to teach Tash Kalar? I tried to go by the guide written by Vlaada, but I found it difficult to explain to my wife the difference between standard moves and combat moves and why Heroic pieces are much more beneficial than basic pieces. She also struggled with the concept of Flares, but I think she finally got the hang of those after she spent a few turns demolishing my pieces...and then I picked up a 3 point task to win the game. I just try and demonstrate it as I do my rules summary. Maybe try and teach according to the first game rules, as well, or play a couple games like that if there's still trouble. I start with the bottom up of "we're going to be placing pieces on the board, using those pieces to summon beings, and doing all of this to earn objectives that score points." Explain two actions per turn which involve placing pieces or summoning beings. Explain how the pieces you place start as "common pieces" [show one sword], but the beings you summon will tend to be "heroic pieces" [show a heroic being card, point out the two swords]. Heroic pieces are stronger than common pieces and can destroy common pieces more easily. Some objectives [show an "upgraded pieces on red squares objective or something] require you to have "upgraded pieces," which are [for our purposes] heroic pieces. Standard moves are onto pieces that are of a lower level [move a heroic piece moving onto a common piece] or onto an empty space. Combat moves are like standard moves, but you can also move them onto a piece of the same level [move a heroic piece onto a heroic piece]. They're moves that let the piece fight pieces its own size. You can also see how heroic pieces are stronger than common pieces - they can destroy common pieces even with a standard move. Bigger pieces can just walk over smaller ones. Common pieces need a combat move even to fight something their own size. I also explicitly say "flares are a catchup mechanic. If you fall behind, you can use your flair to do some stuff for free." Explain how you can activate the top part of the flair, the bottom part of the flair, or both at once - sometimes you'll want to wait to do both, but sometimes you only need to (or only can) do one. They don't cost an action and you can do them before, between, or after your actions. Using your flair, you can quickly set up a being or objective. Sorry if this stuff is obvious, I just find that Tash-Kalar really benefits from demonstration in a rules introduction. Similarly, a lot of rules or concepts in the game only really start clicking when a player sees them in action. The Narrator fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 03:30
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The above explanations are good, but it is important for her understanding for you to emphasize the essential truth of Tash Kalar: it's not about having more pieces. Heroic pieces aren't good because they can stomp on commons. That's just a little bonus. Heroic pieces are good because you need them to summon legends and to claim many goals. You will have a hard time scoring many points without them. And every turn needs to be about points. If you spend a turn slaughtering your enemy when there is no enemy-slaughtering goal available, you have just wasted your turn.
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Jul 19, 2017 03:47
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The Narrator posted:Fair enough, I understand your response now. I'm probably just looking for an excuse that justifies getting AFfO, in any case, though it's not at the top of my wishlist at the moment. I'm probably a bit down on it compared to the thread consensus. I'm not even sure I like it as much as Agricola? Tash Kalar Teaching I explain it as keywords and explain what the various keywords (Summon, Combat/Standard Move/Leap, Place,) and go from there. It does work well when you do it in action. Play with open hands for a bit. With the strategy advice I give different advice if we're playing high form or deathmatch.
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Jul 19, 2017 03:48
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CaptainRightful posted:If you find Catan insanely competitive, that really narrows down your options. Even 7 Wonders Duel, which I think is an excellent light/medium 2-player game, is going to be more competitive than Catan. I've always found Catan is a relatively aggressive game in that it requires players to engage in trades to make it "work", and the robber can feel pretty pointed. In a scale of aggressive Euros where a 1 is Karuba and a 10 is Dominant Species, I'd throw Catan around an 8. A good game competitive game for you (teacup) that scales great from 2-5 is Istanbul. The only aggression is going to a place your opponent wanted to go, and all you need to do is pay them a couple ducats to go there.
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Jul 19, 2017 03:50
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Oh yeah, agreed. Moves are just as useful for hitting objectives and setting up more formations as they are for destroying pieces depending on the objectives out there Edit: while we're on TK, i have little dumb questions i just want to check. If i summon a heroic piece on top of my opponent's common piece, that counts as a destroyed piece, right? Also, if an enemy takes control of one of my pieces and uses it to destroy some of my other pieces, does that count for them having destroyed my pieces on their turn for an objective? I suspect so but just want to make sure. Edit: vvv thanks. I felt like they were implied, but just wanted to be sure. TK is generally a great use of keywords, so i just wanted to be sure i wasn't reading too much into the rules. The Narrator fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 03:52
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The Narrator posted:Oh yeah, agreed. Moves are just as useful for hitting objectives and setting up more formations as they are for destroying pieces depending on the objectives out there Yes to both
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Jul 19, 2017 04:00
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Thanks for the suggestions. Maybe I'm being tough on catan but when I've played it I've had people have so many blow ups due to just taking poo poo not even to benefit them but rather just to hurt deadwing posted:I've always found Catan is a relatively aggressive game in that it requires players to engage in trades to make it "work", and the robber can feel pretty pointed. In a scale of aggressive Euros where a 1 is Karuba and a 10 is Dominant Species, I'd throw Catan around an 8. A good game competitive game for you (teacup) that scales great from 2-5 is Istanbul. The only aggression is going to a place your opponent wanted to go, and all you need to do is pay them a couple ducats to go there. Thanks I couldn't really explain this very well! Some great suggestions, I'll be having a look. I asked before but not sure if anyone has tried it, if we enjoyed mansions of madness with the app playing it would descent with the app be worth a try? Basically the same so don't bother? Scales well to 2 player?
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Jul 19, 2017 05:05
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teacup posted:I'm hoping for something either cooperative or competitive but if competitive then nothing insane like in Cataan you are just cockblocking poo poo. I don't know if I'm really narrowing it down. Arkham LCG. It's a fantastic coop card game with RPG elements and a great campaign system. It's in and out of print because of demand, but you can find collections on Ebay for fair prices.
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Jul 19, 2017 05:28
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Bottom Liner posted:Arkham LCG. It's a fantastic coop card game with RPG elements and a great campaign system. It's in and out of print because of demand, but you can find collections on Ebay for fair prices. Ohhh I'm looking at this now. This might be a dumb question but sometimes Australian sites change the name, it'd be the same as arkham horror- the card game right? It seems fairly priced here, what is the general consensus on what to start with? Just the case one? There seems to be a lot of expansions
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Jul 19, 2017 09:35
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CaptainRightful posted:Do you enjoy Magic-style pre-game deck construction? If so, LOTR LCG is co-op and not as heavy or as fiddly as Gloomhaven--but if you enjoy it, you'll quickly grow tired of the base game and start dumping a ton of money into the bazillion scenarios and expansions. Okay, this caught my eye. Maybe it is because I am used to RPGs and miniature wargames with their 50+ pages of rules, but I personally found Gloomhaven (at least based on the couple scenarios I played on PnP) to be less fiddly than LOTR LCG, mostly because of the lack of action timings and like 12 different phases. Is it really simpler than GH? That said, the only thing I'd mention when it comes to recomending this game is that you will spend more time making decks than actually playing, unless you netdeck like crazy.
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Jul 19, 2017 09:47
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Just tried Not Alone, and Survive: Escape from Atlantis! We found our new 1vMany game cuz Not Alone was really good. I thought it was a cool bluffing and deduction game. Survive: Escape from Atlantis would suck with our group because they don't like such... Direct forms of confrontation, and king making runs rampant.
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Jul 19, 2017 10:04
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I honestly couldn't really imagine playing board games with people who argued over settlers of Catan. Yes you can refuse to trade with someone but the alternative is to expect someone to trade with you and help you win. Likewise the robber is placed by the player, but most of the time the player didn't want to roll for the robber. I honestly think if anyone in my group argued for real about that poo poo I wouldnt play with them. I mean games like The Resistance have you lying through your teeth to all your friends, and if you're really good you convince other friends that one of them telling the truth is a liar (one drunk friend shouted at me "Why are you so good at lying?!?" which is both a compliment and an insult at the same time). At least with Catan most of your actions are actually *re*actions to things mostly out of your control, you reject a trade offer which would help someone win the game or place the robber after rolling a 7.
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Jul 19, 2017 10:13
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I find playing Catan to be a frustrating experience, as long stretches of the game can be spent waiting for resources to pop up, just waiting and waiting for other people to take turns so you can pass yours. I can understand getting frustrated in that scenario.
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Jul 19, 2017 10:30
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Azran posted:Okay, this caught my eye. Maybe it is because I am used to RPGs and miniature wargames with their 50+ pages of rules, but I personally found Gloomhaven (at least based on the couple scenarios I played on PnP) to be less fiddly than LOTR LCG, mostly because of the lack of action timings and like 12 different phases. Is it really simpler than GH? Maybe we're just defining "fiddly" differently--and I admit to only a passing familiarity with Gloomhaven--but I meant that it has few pieces and status tracks. That said, I use COIN cubes to easily track attack/defense/willpower/threat bonuses, so maybe it's more fiddly than I remembered. Still a lot of fun both solo or with 2 players, IMO, and it doesn't really require specific deck optimization for most scenarios.
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Jul 19, 2017 15:23
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Turtlicious posted:Just tried Not Alone, and Survive: Escape from Atlantis! Not Alone is great! I've only played it on tabletop simulator, I should get it for real.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:07
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Turtlicious posted:Just tried Not Alone, and Survive: Escape from Atlantis! Survive is a lot of fun if people put aside all ego and just recognise that we're all monsters sending whales and sharks and sea monsters to destroy each other. It gets legit mean when someone forgets the primary reason of the game (fun) and takes it personally when their poo poo gets wrecked.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:15
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Meeple Realty is having a "Black Friday in July" sale with some fairly decent prices on Broken Token-style organizational inserts. Tangentially related - How necessary is an insert for Gloomhaven? I hate the idea of paying half the price of the drat game just for an organizer, but their Gloomhaven insert is the cheapest I've seen and if it significantly improves the experience then I guess it's worth it. Ninja Edit: looks like the site crashed under the ol' Reddit hug of death.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:47
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Krazyface posted:I find playing Catan to be a frustrating experience, as long stretches of the game can be spent waiting for resources to pop up, just waiting and waiting for other people to take turns so you can pass yours. I can understand getting frustrated in that scenario. It's also got my pet peeve in euros, namely the ability to block someone permanently with little way to get back at him
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Jul 19, 2017 16:55
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Does anyone have any opinions on Fury of Dracula 3rd Edition versus Letters from Whitechapel? Things I'm specifically curious about : Complexity/fiddliness Playtime Player Agency for the 'Many team' (do the players feel like they're individual agents/how easily can it be quarterbacked) Is Letters going to get a reprint? Basically, I like the idea of FoD, but I don't like how long and fiddly it is. I'm considering trying to trade it vis a vis for Letters.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:59
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Mikey Purp posted:Meeple Realty is having a "Black Friday in July" sale with some fairly decent prices on Broken Token-style organizational inserts. I dunno if this is useful to you, but fwiw I use 5 extra boxes to organize my Gloomhaven stuff  . And there are still moments where I think a game-specific inset might be handy (For example for storing the chits for the different status effects separately).
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Jul 19, 2017 17:05
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StashAugustine posted:It's also got my pet peeve in euros, namely the ability to block someone permanently with little way to get back at him The best revenge is scoring well
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Jul 19, 2017 17:16
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Shadow225 posted:Does anyone have any opinions on Fury of Dracula 3rd Edition versus Letters from Whitechapel? The Many team is essentially single player. There is one single moment in each round (of which there are 4) when the person currently in charge is doing stuff that isn't open, that lasts like one minute. I consider Whitechapel to be a 1v1 game.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:35
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Shadow225 posted:Does anyone have any opinions on Fury of Dracula 3rd Edition versus Letters from Whitechapel? There's a new Letters from Whitechapel "family" game coming from FFG during Q3, so I kinda would guess that actual Letters reprint is not on the table very soon: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/6/9/va102-whitehall-mystery/
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Jul 19, 2017 17:36
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Lunsku posted:There's a new Letters from Whitechapel "family" game coming from FFG during Q3, Finally, a prostitute murder sim my mom can play!
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Jul 19, 2017 17:42
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Lunsku posted:There's a new Letters from Whitechapel "family" game coming from FFG during Q3, so I kinda would guess that actual Letters reprint is not on the table very soon: The "Upcoming" section of the FFG site has the Letters reprint listed as "Shipping Now" Should be available in a week or two based on past experience.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:54
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Letters from Whitechapel is definitely a shorter game than Fury of Dracula. Agreed that the detective team is pretty much a single player, so it does have potential quarterbacking issues. Hell, the game encourages it - each night there's a "lead detective" who makes a lot of the decisions like where to setup patrols. Personally feel it works best as a 2 player game. It's a very "pure" hidden movement game so it's not as complex as FoD.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:17
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Mikey Purp posted:Meeple Realty is having a "Black Friday in July" sale with some fairly decent prices on Broken Token-style organizational inserts. Having played Gloomhaven several times, I got their organizer for it. I haven't actually finished putting it together, but based on what I have assembled, it'll make setup and teardown a hell of a lot faster. Considering that right now, my Gloomhaven has a Plano box that doesn't fit inside so I can hold the various chits, it's probably worth it.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:26
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Kruller posted:Having played Gloomhaven several times, I got their organizer for it. I haven't actually finished putting it together, but based on what I have assembled, it'll make setup and teardown a hell of a lot faster. Considering that right now, my Gloomhaven has a Plano box that doesn't fit inside so I can hold the various chits, it's probably worth it. Does the insert work with sleeved cards? We recently sleeved all the combat modifier cards, and it makes getting them into boxes really difficult.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:34
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On comparing LOTR LCG to Gloomhaven's fiddliness, one is fiddly with many creatures, large cards, short cards, terrain, tokens, figures, a huge map filled with stickers and a slew of scenarios in a spiral bound book. The other is fiddly with cards, upon cards, upon cards. Cards for events, cards for enemies, allies, weapons, locations. I hated the gymnastics of sorting cards in LOTR LCG so much so that I didnt seek the previous owner to ask him for the ones I noticed were missing after a few plays. The new Arkham Horror LCG is just as bad, it's very hard to be passionate about a game when all it offers is card based. And once you're through with the content, buy more cards! Of course they're bloody expensive too. It's literrally the opposite of boardgaming fun to me. Let me shuffle a deck, move a meeple, point at a friend, pick up a couple of coins and play with them when someone gets AP. It may sound like I loooove me some ameritrash but those LCG games are pure ameritrash to me. Just pictures and rules and not a sound design idea in sight. Gloomhaven is shock full of merits but the absolute best to me is how incredibly generous it is with actual content (enemies, scenarios, characters, content scaling, replayability, random dungeons holy poo poo), so you do get a lot of things in the box but playing your first scenario doesnt require a tenth of it. But yeah GH absolutely needs a storage solution. I used a dvd binder for all the cards, plano box for all cardboard stuff. Terrain still needs to be sorted out. Organise that before and after your first playtest and setup + cleanup should take about 5 mns each.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:52
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OgreNoah posted:Does the insert work with sleeved cards? We recently sleeved all the combat modifier cards, and it makes getting them into boxes really difficult. I finally managed to get the page to load, and it does work with sleeved combat modifiers (and sleeved everything if you're planning on buying 1600 sleeves). I'll get it if my cart ever works.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:23
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Please do not sleeve the road and city cards in Gloomhaven. Everything else is probably fine, though. Maybe equipment only as purchased. He also used GMT trays for (most of) the monster tokens, which seems to have worked out well.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:26
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White Rabbit posted:I loooove me some ameritrash but those LCG games are pure ameritrash to me. Just pictures and rules and not a sound design idea in sight. imo this is like the most disingenuous thing you could possibly say about the LotR and Arkham LCGs. Say what you will about the fiddliness of seeding the decks and such to get started, but mechanically those games are very tight designs.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:29
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dropkickpikachu posted:imo this is like the most disingenuous thing you could possibly say about the LotR and Arkham LCGs. Say what you will about the fiddliness of seeding the decks and such to get started, but mechanically those games are very tight designs. Agreed. Super thematic too. Saying a game fails because it's only cards is like saying role playing games fail because they're only pen and paper. Arkham isn't a one time play money sink either, it offers so much replayability. It's one of the best designed games I've ever seen overall, just fires really well on every cylinder.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:47
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Are we doing Gloomhaven storage solutions chat? Because that's the best kind of chat. I have all the standees, terrain, tokens, and cards in 3 Plano boxes: 2 larger ones (3750) and a smaller (3601) for tokens and stuff we actually need during play. The map tiles and books are in an alphabetical accordion folder, so the map tiles can be easily found by letter (A-N). Setup and breakdown are a breeze as long as nobody messes up the alphabetization of the monster standees or cards. Everything except the accordion file fits nicely back into the box.
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Jul 19, 2017 20:06
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