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Part of the appeal with Mage is that they've said one of the last major breaks in the Atlantean orders took place during the Golden Age of Piracy, when the Silver Ladder teamed up with the Seers to put down the Nameless Orders thriving around the pirate-state of Nassau (I think). Seems to me like Demon would be a more natural fit for a Nassau setting, though. Age of Piracy Geist would be cool, but mostly it depresses me because every idea I think up for it is actually a Wraith idea.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:02
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Magnusth posted:They are a group of occultist decended from demons that deny their evil heritage and use their dark powers to defend the world from evil, especially demons? What's the problem? Describing them this way makes them sound like hell-themed Kamen Riders.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:16
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Xelkelvos posted:"Demon" is a term that once got thrown around in a different way before Demon was released and it does have a blurb regarding it. I think, at one point, it was meant to be assumed that the demons of the Lucifuge were the same as the ones in Inferno, but I can't recall. Terrorforge posted:That's probably true, but there's also a note stating that for the purposes of Castigation rites (and the limited metaphysical understanding of most hunters), "demon" is a catchall term for any entity that does not originate from the material plane. Yeah this was the thing that bothers me about them. They just have their own subset of "demon" that uses the same name but appears independent of anything else, even Inferno tbh. e: Terrorforge posted:When it comes to your vampire aficionado, I'd suggest making him a ghoul. It's a logical step on the path to getting a vampire to Hey weird question, would ghouling a person save someone who is mechanically dead (if just barely) or would you need a full on embrace to bring them back? Xinder fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 21:40
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The Demon book has a whole sidebar about all the things that have been called "demons" in the nWoD. You have: - God-Machine Demons - Inferno Demons - Lucifuge Demons, who may or may not actually be... well, basically anything else on this list - Goetic Demons - Imps and Wraiths, who are collectively called Demons - Some weird things that can pop up when Changelings walk around in a mortal's dreams Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 21:45
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Xinder posted:Yeah this was the thing that bothers me about them. They just have their own subset of "demon" that uses the same name but appears independent of anything else, even Inferno tbh. Which I guess leaves with the standard CofD mantra of "it's up to you." Narratively the only thing that really matters is that they're full of bad mojo and truck with worse mojo. It's not super important whether that's because they're tapped into the Inferno, have access to actual-for-real-capital-H-Catholic-Hell Hell or channel the universal ghostbusting powers of a particularly brimstoney spirit of torment and slavery. Odds are the exact nature of the Lucifuge's powers won't be important to your players as long as you clearly communicate it's Bad News, and in the event that your players do care you can choose whichever explanation best fits your story.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:50
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Terrorforge posted:I've always felt Cheiron would work well as the Mephistopheles in that situation. On the surface they look like a good option because they sidestep the whole "eternal damnation" issue you get with most other sources of supernatural power, but in truth they're far more predatory than even the most rapacious vampire. Sure, a demon will take your sister in exchange for the ability to throw lightning bolts and a vampire will force you to do its bidding for centuries, but Cheiron owns you. Count Vladislav may not have your best interests in mind, but at least you're a valuable piece in his game; to the Cheiron brass you're just post #11629 on a cost/benefit spreadsheet. Its because capitalism is truly the greatest evil.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:54
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Xinder posted:Yeah this was the thing that bothers me about them. They just have their own subset of "demon" that uses the same name but appears independent of anything else, even Inferno tbh. It's not its own subset, they use a broader definition because the Lucifuge would be a one trick pony if their powers only worked against a specific rare kind of supernatural that might not be in every game. For what it's worth it's pretty clear they're meant to be Inferno-descended, the Inferno book even mentions them and has the 'bad seeds' that don't fall in with the Lucifuge. It just questions the motives of the Lucifuge, the leader of the conspiracy.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:57
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Xinder posted:Hey weird question, would ghouling a person save someone who is mechanically dead (if just barely) or would you need a full on embrace to bring them back? If they're dying, I imagine you could regurgitate enough cursed blood into them to heal their wounds in the process of ghouling. If they're dead, they're past the expiration date for ghouling, and you've either got yourself a childe or a corpse with blood in its mouth.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:58
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Xinder posted:Hey weird question, would ghouling a person save someone who is mechanically dead (if just barely) or would you need a full on embrace to bring them back? RAW, dead is dead and you'd need to either vamp them or do some other resurrection ritual first. At my table, I'd allow it if it's very shortly after death and the trauma's not too bad. Like resuscitating someone who is clinically dead but not yet warm.
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Jul 18, 2017 22:03
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From a strictly mechanical standpoint, a ghoul would have to be both alive and conscious to save themselves from death as the necessary expenditure of Vitae is a deliberate action. Even if they were somehow conscious, they could not save themselves from a health track full of Aggravated damage as that takes several days to heal regardless. I'd agree that it's permissible from a story standpoint, but keep in mind that death is actually a less fluid concept in the WoD than in reality - you're dead when your soul goes away, and vice versa. Whether the soul of a vampire is lost or merely warped by the Embrace is left as an exercise for the viewer.
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Jul 18, 2017 22:22
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Terrorforge posted:From a strictly mechanical standpoint, a ghoul would have to be both alive and conscious to save themselves from death as the necessary expenditure of Vitae is a deliberate action. Even if they were somehow conscious, they could not save themselves from a health track full of Aggravated damage as that takes several days to heal regardless. Incorrect. The soul is not required to be alive. I mean, going without it is incredibly bad for you but Soulless is a thing you can be without dying. E: The soul is kind of like a metaphysical kidney, really. You need one, going without it is bad, but you can survive for a while without one and you can get a transplant. Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 22:23
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Mors Rattus posted:Incorrect. The soul is not required to be alive. I worded that poorly. What I meant to say was that there is a definite moment of death, because when you die, your soul goes away. Losing your soul doesn't mean you die, but dying means you lose your soul. e: and because having or not having a soul is a measurably, binary yes/no question being dead or alive in the WoD is also a binary yes/no question (not counting all the potential states of undeath) as opposed to real life where whether or not a particular state of being is considered "dead" or not is largely dependent on whether or not modern medical science expect to be able to reverse that state e2: at least, that's how Mage portrays it. the Raise Dead Exploit from Demon seems to suggest that a soul can sometimes just sort of hang around for a while after death if it doesn't feel like moving on Terrorforge fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 22:30
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Nobby posted:Part of the appeal with Mage is that they've said one of the last major breaks in the Atlantean orders took place during the Golden Age of Piracy, when the Silver Ladder teamed up with the Seers to put down the Nameless Orders thriving around the pirate-state of Nassau (I think). Seems to me like Demon would be a more natural fit for a Nassau setting, though. I wasn't aware of that, so yeah, that makes sense. I think Demon (or Geist for that matter I guess) in that time period could work in Europe with regards to the colonial powers (especially the trade ones) or in regions of major trade between those powers and their colonies. Obviously the Age of Piracy evokes thoughts of the West Indies and the Atlantic because of Amerocentrism, but the East Indies were just as active but with the Dutch being a lot more dominant on that side and the Spanish less so. An Age of Sail setting could probably fill its own book.
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Jul 18, 2017 22:33
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Has anyone rewritten the song "I've Been Everywhere Man" to instead be "I've Been Every Were-man" with the lyrics being all the names for different CofD/WoD were-creatures or their forms? If not, why?
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Jul 19, 2017 00:08
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Terrorforge posted:Which I guess leaves with the standard CofD mantra of "it's up to you." Narratively the only thing that really matters is that they're full of bad mojo and truck with worse mojo. It's not super important whether that's because they're tapped into the Inferno, have access to actual-for-real-capital-H-Catholic-Hell Hell or channel the universal ghostbusting powers of a particularly brimstoney spirit of torment and slavery. Odds are the exact nature of the Lucifuge's powers won't be important to your players as long as you clearly communicate it's Bad News, and in the event that your players do care you can choose whichever explanation best fits your story. I mean, I guess so. I was more interested in seeing if they could fit in thematically with any of the stuff I had planned for my current Hunter game but they probably can't. I've got N0 showing up in it already so introducing more Hunter factions would probably just take the focus away from the spirits the party is supposed to be learning about and hunting. I might try to think of something for them to do in a later game I run. I Am Just a Box posted:If they're dying, I imagine you could regurgitate enough cursed blood into them to heal their wounds in the process of ghouling. If they're dead, they're past the expiration date for ghouling, and you've either got yourself a childe or a corpse with blood in its mouth. Terrorforge posted:From a strictly mechanical standpoint, a ghoul would have to be both alive and conscious to save themselves from death as the necessary expenditure of Vitae is a deliberate action. Even if they were somehow conscious, they could not save themselves from a health track full of Aggravated damage as that takes several days to heal regardless. Yeah, by mechanically dead I guess what I mean is full of agg damage. I'd imagine that even if it did work they'd still be out of commission for a bit. I'm curious about this because I was thinking about using it as a "safety net" for my hunters where they could keep using the same character when they're supposed to die. I like the idea of it because at first it just seems like I'm being nice to them, but then I get to start dropping the downsides on them. Also helps introduce my newer players to more vampire stuff in an intimate way.
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Jul 19, 2017 00:27
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bewilderment posted:Has anyone rewritten the song "I've Been Everywhere Man" to instead be "I've Been Every Were-man" with the lyrics being all the names for different CofD/WoD were-creatures or their forms? Twist my arm why don't you. I've been every wereman I've been very wereman Been a rat and a bearman I've even flown through the air, man Fera I've been my share, man I've been every were I've been a, Crinos Kitsune Crocas Kamakshi Roko Shinju Kumo Silkaram Kojin Tenere Doshi Nuwisha Hatar Eji Koto Latrani Pithus Juko Kyubi Brightwater Dimwater Darkwater Gladius Not a bus. I've been every wereman I've been very wereman Been a rat and a bearman I've even flown through the air, man Fera I've been my share, man I've been every were I've been a, Bastet Archid Balam Azhi Dahaka Drachid Qualmi Simba Nezumi Suchid Zhong Lung Nagah Karui Swara Sokto Ahi Koshuku Kamsa Kali Tsitsu Sendeh Chatro Rodens Hakken Begin Again I've been every wereman I've been very wereman Been a rat and a bearman I've even flown through the air, man Fera I've been my share, man I've been every were I've been a, Blade Slave Feline Corax Squamus Corvid Glabrus Chasmus Knife-Skulker Gurahl Arcas Tengu Arthren Ratkin Ajaba Hyaenid Anansi Kumoti Lilian Irono Kataribe Gukutsushi Hitogata It's a fox-a I've been every wereman I've been very wereman Been a rat and a bearman I've even flown through the air, man Fera I've been my share, man I've been every were I've been a, Bjornen Crawlerling Bagheera Sambuhenge Bubasti Kieh Rishi Kartikeya Pumonca Tulugaq Kojubat Manabozho Ursus Uzmati Mokole Tunnel Runner Gumagan Makara Shadow Seer Same-bito Balaram Boli Zouhisze Vasuki See what I mean I've been every wereman I've been very wereman Been a rat and a bearman I've even flown through the air, man Fera I've been my share, man I've been every were
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Jul 19, 2017 01:05
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Xinder posted:I mean, I guess so. I was more interested in seeing if they could fit in thematically with any of the stuff I had planned for my current Hunter game but they probably can't. I've got N0 showing up in it already so introducing more Hunter factions would probably just take the focus away from the spirits the party is supposed to be learning about and hunting. I mean obviously don't plan in that kind of detail that far in advance because players are bound to happen to your story, but that's an angle for you if you want to introduce them. Xinder posted:Yeah, by mechanically dead I guess what I mean is full of agg damage. I'd imagine that even if it did work they'd still be out of commission for a bit. Sounds like a great idea, and I'm definitely in favor of bending the rules a little to make it happen. Personally I'd try to find a way to hit when the character is merely dying, both to avoid the misconception that vampires can fully resurrect the recently dead rather than having to Embrace them, and because it's just more dramatically interesting for a dying character to see a shadowy figure step over their broken body and offer life in exchange for servitude than for them to die and then be made a ghoul without their own input. Or, hmm, here's another thought: the vampire in question needed to perform a weird rite/have some unusual Coil/Scale of the Dragon that lets them do specifically this. The catch? Since the character's natural age is now "dead", he will kick it immediately if he runs out of Vitae.
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Jul 19, 2017 01:25
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Kurieg posted:Twist my arm why don't you. 
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Jul 19, 2017 01:49
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Don't mouse over if you'd prefer not to ruin the magic. Just took all the form, auspice, and species lexicons from Players Guide to the Changing Breeds, sorted them by Syllable count, and did the same to the place names from the song, then did a V-Lookup back from that to their placement in the lyrics. There's far too many 2 syllable fera words, and not enough 3 syllable ones. I didn't even bother trying to fit the rhyme scheme. rear end in a top hat rhymed City with itself 5 times, gently caress that.
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Jul 19, 2017 01:58
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Terrorforge posted:If you're spirit-hunting, the Lucifuge is just about the only compact with any direct connection. Binding and communing with otherworldly entities is their whole schtick, and you could easily slip one in in the role of a mentor or rival. Perhaps emphasize their dangerous nature by introducing a Lucifuge hunter as someone who is just knowledgeable in matters of intangible spooks, but have them give the PCs subtly misleading advice and then show up to bind/negotiate with the spirits the PCs thought they were destroying. And then you can throw another curve ball by showing the the Lucifuge needed the nasties for something comparatively noble and get the whole "end vs. means" ball rolling. I actually never associated the Lucifuge with spirits. To be fair the only thing about them I really read without skimming over was their section in the core Hunter book. Is there anything in particular I should read to get a better grasp on the way they associate with spirits? I kind of like this idea. I have a more veteran player using a spirit mage to already fill that role, but giving a foil in another hunter telling them different but no less accurate information would be interesting. Gives them a choice to trust one or the other, or both...or neither. And that's not even mentioning their CO whose knowledge of spirits is limited but has given them standing orders to "neutralize the target". Bonus: If they do decide to help the Lucifuge, he's not gonna be able to handle a rank 4 spirit and it'll blow up in his face. Which will be fun. I do like that a bit more thematically. The vampire I was going to use for this actually is already an NPC known to the players as a friend, but they have no idea he's a vampire (yet). So the question would probably a bit more like "Do you want to live? How much do you want to live? Would you give anything?" My original plan involved straight up embracing the PC at this point, but the more I think about it, the more I'd prefer they get ghouled instead.
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Jul 19, 2017 02:13
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Kurieg posted:Don't mouse over if you'd prefer not to ruin the magic. I was hoping it would rhyme but this is already far too much effort compared to what I expected. Amazing. I didn't expect that many verses. Although the original Australian version doesn't rhyme city with itself. The singer also never visits the entire western half of Australia, but this is understandable. bewilderment fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 03:38
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bewilderment posted:I was hoping it would rhyme but this is already far too much effort compared to what I expected. Amazing. I didn't expect that many verses. He doesn't, but he does do a bunch of Atta's, Ella's, Illa's, and Illy's
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Jul 19, 2017 03:57
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Xelkelvos posted:Maybe post-occupation Japan with Deviant and possibly Changeling from the late 50s to the bubble period. The period where Japan went from just another country in East Asia to a technological and economic leader as well as a period of major Westernization, student rebellions, and the flourishing of anime, manga, and tokusatsu.
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Jul 19, 2017 04:38
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Nessus posted:What splat is Mr. Shakedown and his ilk? Prometheans, trying to understand humanity through its fixation on accumulating money.
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Jul 19, 2017 05:21
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Poltergrift posted:Prometheans, trying to understand humanity through its fixation on accumulating money. Mr Shakedown, much like Prometheans, causes people to shun and avoid their presence, until the people finally grow emboldened enough to take them on - with torches, pitchforks... and the nearest trash can or chair.
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Jul 19, 2017 05:24
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bewilderment posted:Mr Shakedown, much like Prometheans, causes people to shun and avoid their presence, until the people finally grow emboldened enough to take them on - with torches, pitchforks... and the nearest trash can or chair.
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Jul 19, 2017 05:27
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Nessus posted:Is Disquiet why people keep trying to pick fights with Big Strong Man Kiryu and Visibly Psychotic Majima?? In my post above I put Kiryu/Majima in the place of the people being Disquieted, or perhaps as righteous hunters. I assume that random people just trying to attack you because you look tough is just a thing that happens in 80s Japan.
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Jul 19, 2017 05:41
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Xinder posted:I actually never associated the Lucifuge with spirits. To be fair the only thing about them I really read without skimming over was their section in the core Hunter book. Is there anything in particular I should read to get a better grasp on the way they associate with spirits? I kind of like this idea. I have a more veteran player using a spirit mage to already fill that role, but giving a foil in another hunter telling them different but no less accurate information would be interesting. Gives them a choice to trust one or the other, or both...or neither. And that's not even mentioning their CO whose knowledge of spirits is limited but has given them standing orders to "neutralize the target". Bonus: If they do decide to help the Lucifuge, he's not gonna be able to handle a rank 4 spirit and it'll blow up in his face. Which will be fun. Which also helps to show that the Xinder posted:I do like that a bit more thematically. The vampire I was going to use for this actually is already an NPC known to the players as a friend, but they have no idea he's a vampire (yet). So the question would probably a bit more like "Do you want to live? How much do you want to live? Would you give anything?" My original plan involved straight up embracing the PC at this point, but the more I think about it, the more I'd prefer they get ghouled instead. Excellent. Terrorforge fucked around with this message at 12:09 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 11:59
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With a little over 2 weeks left, Dark Eras 2 remains thousands short of its first stretch goal. Honestly this is really kind of embarrassing to watch.
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Jul 20, 2017 15:13
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Mors Rattus posted:With a little over 2 weeks left, Dark Eras 2 remains thousands short of its first stretch goal. They deserve it for Beast.
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Jul 20, 2017 16:11
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The Unlife Aquatic posted:They deserve it for Beast. That and/or the mess the last Dark Eras was in development. I actually don't think nuWolf's shenanigans are the problem, since Prince's Gambit was successful (It wasn't asking for much, but ~6x your goal is still great). We'll know for sure once Deviant's kickstarter starts. Kavak fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 13:07
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Anecdotal, but I backed DA2 expecting it to blow up with additional stretch goal content, like the first one. Now that it's just limping along I'll probably cancel. I imagine others are in the same boat. $65 is a lot to spend on the limited content that's shaping up.
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Jul 21, 2017 13:22
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Do they usually start with some stretch goals listed or set them up as the KS goes along? Because offering up some of the much-liked rejects like Book of Judges Hunter as stretch goals could incentivize people.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:04
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They typically wait until they hit the last one before announcing a new one. Frankly, I deeply do not want Book of Judges Hunter, particularly after the appearance of an immortal Hebrew prophet in the latest Vampire book that was handled particularly poorly. She has magic Torah recitation powers.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:09
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moths posted:Anecdotal, but I backed DA2 expecting it to blow up with additional stretch goal content, like the first one. Now that it's just limping along I'll probably cancel. I think people were expecting more than one stretch goal to be promised at the outset, but it didn't happen. Also some of the settings don't seem as evocative (or as plentiful) like the Wonders of the Ancient World one for Promethean and Changeling or Golden Age of Islam for Vampire and Beast. If there had to be a Prommie/Changeling setting, I'd think the USSR would be an interesting one (I'd prefer Prommie/Deviant) or even making that the Islamic Golden Age setting. For Vampire and Beast, something more contemporary like the Mexican Drug wars might be appropriate. As a side note, the high tier backer goals for extra eras and era expansions have all been filled so that's 3 more Eras (two that were passed over previously getting revived and one brand new one) and 5 getting expansions. Still, the amount of hype being generated for this KS seems a bit less than the other ones
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Jul 21, 2017 15:41
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Great War not including the Eastern Front is a mistake imho. Forsaken and Hunter in the Russian Civil War would own so much.
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Jul 21, 2017 17:00
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Mors Rattus posted:Incorrect. The soul is not required to be alive. Though, some stuff implies that if you plug in another soul to your body or steal another soul you might end up confusing your memories with another person's. Or just start acting like them. Vampire touches on that a lot in 1e supplements. And some of the other stuff out there implies that it's something utterly necessary to a person's identity and ability to exhibit independent action. At the very least it's a pretty good plot point to shake things up. Imagine if someone you knew started displaying quirks that were wholly at odds with who they'd been up until that point. Or they started talking about an ex-wife that they definitely never had (And just who the gently caress is Cynthia anyways?) to the PC's after meeting a dark and mysterious stranger on the way home. Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 19:18
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Question for the thread: Are there any big pitfalls with the Blood Sorcery book for Requiem? I'm running a solo game for someone and they've been vaguely disappointed in Theban Sorcery, so I was curious if it would cause any major problems porting it forward.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:55
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Crasical posted:Question for the thread: Are there any big pitfalls with the Blood Sorcery book for Requiem? I'm running a solo game for someone and they've been vaguely disappointed in Theban Sorcery, so I was curious if it would cause any major problems porting it forward.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:45
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The freeform sorcery rules can kind of do that; the new rituals are generally extremely impressive. 2e has some errata to it if you want to port into 2e; that's in the 2e core book, in the blood sorcery section. Mainly it tones down cast range slightly and changes dicepools. e: For a solo game especially I shouldn't think it'll be a problem to let the player do some really cool poo poo, anyway. Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 20:48
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