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They are now going to get their Queen out and we need a counter play immediately.
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Jul 18, 2017 13:43
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If they do that, let's move our Queen to xd4, now they're both out on the board and we can have a real party. Then we can castle too.
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Jul 18, 2017 13:51
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So what happens if they just use their pawn to capture our bishop?
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Jul 18, 2017 13:59
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Hmm. I only just thought of it unfortunately, but Qxf3 from White would pile a lot of pressure on our knight at c6. They could put us in a position that either forces us to abandon castling or makes us end up sacrificing a lot of pieces to get it. Although... Qd7 looks a lot nicer now that White's f3 knight's gone, and it may actually be necessary to keep our c6 knight from buckling. I'd probably go with that next, myself. e: ^^ well, we lose a bishop, they lost a knight, it's a roughly fair trade. And their pawn structure in front of their post-castle king gets messed up a bit, too. Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 14:01
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Wait, you made Bxf3 without noticing Qxf3 immediately after?
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Jul 18, 2017 14:07
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Paul.Power posted:Hmm. I only just thought of it unfortunately, but Qxf3 from White would pile a lot of pressure on our knight at c6. They could put us in a position that either forces us to abandon castling or makes us end up sacrificing a lot of pieces to get it. Although... Qd7 looks a lot nicer now that White's f3 knight's gone, and it may actually be necessary to keep our c6 knight from buckling. I'd probably go with that next, myself. I was thinking much the same, but there's also Qb6 now that we're into a different game. I agree that the c6 knight is going to be central going forward.
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Jul 18, 2017 14:08
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chitoryu12 posted:So what happens if they just use their pawn to capture our bishop? Their kingside castling defense is hosed. Whether or not White considers that more valuable than getting their queen forced out is to be determined. As for moves we might want to look at Qb6 which would protect the threatened pieces in question. Another possibility is knight to D5 which would still gently caress with White trying to threaten our knight. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Wait, you made Bxf3 without noticing Qxf3 immediately after? Not me. I knew full well that was a possibility. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 14:08
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Wait, you made Bxf3 without noticing Qxf3 immediately after? It's really not that hard to notice, both of our Knights are protected by pawns, if they move the Queen to f3 we can move our Queen up to d4 no problem, otherwise we can move the a7 pawn up to pressure the Bishop into retreating and freeing up the right side.
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Jul 18, 2017 14:14
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Y'know given how long White's taking to make their move I think we succeeded at freaking them out. Just saying...
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Jul 19, 2017 04:08
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Dr. Snark posted:Y'know given how long White's taking to make their move I think we succeeded at freaking them out. Just saying... Maybe. More likely they are divided, but the best move for white now is the queen. Which probably means Qd7 is our best next move to prevent a breakthrough on our c6 knight. They need a the d4 pawn for that, but can't use it without our other knight taking it (which it has to). We have a fighting chance.
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Jul 19, 2017 09:29
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 You have 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 19, 2017 11:14
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Alright, do we wanna move the Queen to xd4, or move to a7 pawn to a6? We can also move the g7 pawn up to g4 to threaten the Queen, but that'll take two turns.
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Jul 19, 2017 12:11
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I like Qxd4 here, puts us in a good central position. What traps am I missing?
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Jul 19, 2017 12:14
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Sure would be nice if we could get the knight into the centre. Qb6 was a bad moe but Bxf3 was just pants on head. Qdx4 protects most of our important pieces, lets do that. Alternatively we can invite a trade on D5. HerpicleOmnicron5 fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 12:23
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AJ_Impy posted:I like Qxd4 here, puts us in a good central position. What traps am I missing? We underdefend our knight on c6 giving White a chance to ruin our back line by sacrificing their bishop to get the queen into the back. Now let's make something clear: odds are if White doesn't have a good enough opening or if a piece isn't threatened they're going to use their turn to castle their king. So keep that in mind for future moves.
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Jul 19, 2017 12:55
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Now we employ the Mummy's Gambit. We convince team white their mom made cookies and should go get them, and while distracted, switch a pawn over. Worked for me as a kid.
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Jul 19, 2017 13:36
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7. ... Qxd4 8. c3 would absolutely murder our tempo. I still think Qb6 is stronger.
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Jul 19, 2017 14:06
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Qd5 threatens both the queen and the bishop on b5. Let's go for that.
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Jul 19, 2017 14:09
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I like Qd7 myself. Happy to be convinced otherwise, though. e: although thinking it through, Qd5 is pretty good - didn't notice we had the support of the knight. Might switch to that. Although c4 would mess with it... Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 14:20
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Qd5 is an interesting idea. Worst case is a queen exchange with our knight in pretty good position offensively on d5. Best case they retreat their queen and we gain positioning and tempo. I'd expect Qd3 to be their reply. I'm also ok with e6 to get our bishop out & open up castling on the king side. There is also the option of trying for Qd6-Ng4-Qxh7# if they were to castle king-side but it requires them to castle and make one other move that doesn't put us in check, put anything in the way of our queen & gets their queen away from g4 so it doesn't just capture the knight.
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Jul 19, 2017 14:24
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I'm voting Queen to D4. If they don't move their king, we have an angle on check. If they do, we can hit other pieces.
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Jul 19, 2017 15:22
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Paul.Power posted:I like Qd7 myself. Happy to be convinced otherwise, though. 7. ... Qd5 8. c4 Qe4+ 9. Qxe4 Nxe4, perhaps? I'm more worried about white playing Qa3, since that would be a death sentence for our Queenside castle, or even 8. Qxc6+ xc6 9. Bxc6+, which would also ruin everything.
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Jul 19, 2017 15:38
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Erring towards Qd5 on this one; it puts White in a bad position and forces them to make a suboptimal move no matter what. Edit:  Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 15:40
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Covski posted:
Alright. At least white is back to being predictable. So long as we're forcing them to react, it helps us, but as it stands we're still at best even. We've plenty of time, folks, so let's use it. I'd love to se everyone who makes a suggestion also suggest the next 3-6 moves they are planning to make to white's likely responses, because we are definitely in the place where a single bad move could screw us in the endgame. At the moment, we're still only down a pawn compared to white and arguably we've traded a less valuable piece for a more valuable one with that move. So now, we have to guess where white is coming from. Paul.Power posted:I like Qd7 myself. Happy to be convinced otherwise, though. Sure, Qd7 is a good move now. That plus the support from our non-pinned knight can stop white from pushing up with the pawn to wreck our queen side. Qd5 kind of isn't, mostly because it invites Nc3, and then we've wasted a move double-moving our queen, which we can't afford. At the same time Nc3 protects their bishop and develops their side nicely. We ought to try and delay that some. As a general note, support for the queen is generally only valuable against the opposing queen, since any other piece would be worth suiciding to get rid of that queen. Exceptions do apply though. Snorb posted:Qd5 threatens both the queen and the bishop on b5. Let's go for that. It kind of also invites an exchange. The best we can get for our money with Qd5 is a queen exchange. I don't really want that yet, unless we are forced. Davin Valkri posted:7. ... Qxd4 8. c3 would absolutely murder our tempo. I still think Qb6 is stronger. Then white moves d4 pawn up a bit and we're boned queen side. How about Nd5? No. That leaves the queen still in play to hurt us. Qd7 and then e6 seems the best way to negate their attack, negate their possible Qh3 to threaten the queen side castle, release our bishop and threaten d5 square with something white can't break. It also means we can get our bishop out soon and king's side castle if we need to, though unfortunately the queen is in good position to threaten that as well. With Qd7, we can also stop a rush with d4 pawn by playing Nd5. I feel any threat to that bishop will just lead to an exchange right now.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:02
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chitoryu12 posted:I'm voting Queen to D4. If they don't move their king, we have an angle on check. If they do, we can hit other pieces. That move destroys us. Qxd4, Bxc6, xc6, Qxc6+, Qd7, Qxa8+ (that's our rook gone), Qd8, Qxa7. We lose our entire right side.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:06
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Okay, with the benefit of thinking it over more I'm erring towards Qd7. That being said I'm thinking a queenside castle is no longer a viable option given that their bishop could easily check our king, leading to a string of moves that would give White the tempo. We've got to get our bishop on black in play. I'm thinking that after Qd7 we go for Pe6 then Bb4; threatening the rook that they'll try to get out of the back row or get them to move their knight on c3 if they did so. If they try to go aggressive with their bishop on black to take our left knight it would suck but we could go Be7 and still get a relatively optimal trade. After that we can kingside castle and then we'd be in business. Odds are that White is either going to castle or go for the Kc6 move; either way it'll be a defensive set of moves that will let us set up our next attack. Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 16:13
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Dr. Snark posted:Okay, with the benefit of thinking it over more I'm erring towards Qd7. That being said I'm thinking a queenside castle is no longer a viable option given that their bishop could easily check our king, leading to a string of moves that would give White the tempo. We've got to get our bishop on black in play. I kind of agree, and we should consider holding off on castling until we're all cleared out and we can choose. Hoever, Qd7 still makes a tower stacked behind the queen a powerful move, and that bishop unsupported is getting no further than c6. Considering the immediate threat to our right side, we need to play the next one defensively if we're to last into the endgame. I say Qd7. I'll change it later if someone comes up with a brilliant play to try. Consider this though, after white castles and our right side is mostly clear, that white queen is gone and we have a knight on d5, we could set us up to Nf4, Qg2 and mate if the board develops that way. That might be our way into that castle. That requires us to hold d corridor though.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:19
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All right, looking at the possibilities, endorsing Qd7.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:28
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I was joking, it's a godawful move. Qd5 or bust: everything else just isn't aggressive enough. Queen trade that gets our knight in the center people! HerpicleOmnicron5 fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 17:15
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Qd7 for me as well.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:18
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I'm convinced. Qd7.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:19
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I'm also convinced. Qd7.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:59
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I have to agree, Qd7 seems like the best move here out of all the options.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:31
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I'm OK with Qd5
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Jul 19, 2017 18:33
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I would be good with Qd7 since trading queens right now is a bit premature and we need to get our King away from that drat Bishop.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:17
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Qd7 is the only viable line right now.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:22
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Qd7 wins the vote!
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Jul 19, 2017 19:50
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 Qd7 White has 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 19, 2017 20:27
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 Qd7 8.O-O You have 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 20, 2017 13:14
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Now for the million [currency unit of choice] question: do we queenside castle, or work to set up a kingside castle?
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Jul 20, 2017 13:19
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