Final Fantasy Megathread - People here, it sounds like sickness

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Final Fantasy Megathread - People here, it sounds like sickness

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Saint Freak: Apr 16, 2007; Regretting is an insult to oneself; Buglord

Technically I feel like you could tie that item in that box to a seed that's permanent to your save so they have no choice but to accept it. Checkmate Ito.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:18

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# ? May 24, 2024 01:57

Lotus Aura: Aug 16, 2009; KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!

IcePhoenix posted:

That sounds awful, you won't have enough HP for the damage to be meaningful.

You don't use Knots of Rust for their damage. You use them because every one used makes Dark Matter and Noted Best Esper Shemhazai deal way more damage. Like, Shemhazai is so absurdly good that Soul Purge is the second best attack period, losing only to Zeromus' Big Bang, but with the bonus of Shemhazai being given you by the plot so

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:23

Golden Goat: Aug 2, 2012

WaltherFeng posted:

Whether it's a treasure or whatever, what happens is "destiny", and the player has to accept it and keep going. I thought the original version had this, but one part of me thought that it ended up not functioning very well. There are treasures that sometimes have gil and sometimes items, and if you only got a few gil, I wanted the player to value that small amount of money and keep making progress. But in fact, [some people] just reset until they get the item they want, don't they? It's difficult to make it so that the player has to accept the finality that the item [that they desired] wasn't there

You could have just made chests not respawn if if you didn't want them to reload the zone to get the item they wanted.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:24

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Saint Freak posted:

Technically I feel like you could tie that item in that box to a seed that's permanent to your save so they have no choice but to accept it. Checkmate Ito.

Yeah you def could

Golden Goat posted:

You could have just made chests not respawn if if you didn't want them to reload the zone to get the item they wanted.

Doesn't work if they load a save, but see above

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:26

Golden Goat: Aug 2, 2012

Zaphod42 posted:

Doesn't work if they load a save, but see above

True there's ways to have it the way he's describing. Makes me think somebody changed it on him.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:29

WaltherFeng: May 15, 2013; 50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

In case anyone didn't know, it takes 3 zones for a chest to respawn in FFXII. In the Zodiac version they changed it to one so you can go back and forth to grind treasure

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:30

GulagDolls: Jun 4, 2011

you all play video games like total psychopaths

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:36

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

Mega64 posted:

I can't wait for 12's PC release so I can make everyone Machinists and do nothing but spam Knots of Rust.

You can just say "Weak Mode."

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:39

IcePhoenix: Sep 18, 2005; Take me to your Shida

Dragonatrix posted:

You don't use Knots of Rust for their damage.

I do though.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:41

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Saint Freak posted:

Technically I feel like you could tie that item in that box to a seed that's permanent to your save so they have no choice but to accept it. Checkmate Ito.

Then youll have people seed scumming like what happened to Monster Hunter where one of he seeds was "cursed."

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:42

Golden Goat: Aug 2, 2012

Stay with me here but what if...

Chest drops were static

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:43

Tae: Oct 24, 2010; Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

Still better than what Valkyrie Profile 2 did and make what spirits you got as randomized. For whatever rear end in a top hat that thought the game would be like a rogue-like.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:46

Gologle: Apr 15, 2013; The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3

Look bro, I don't play Eastern RPGs for guaranteed loot, I play it for the gambling factor.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:50

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

Golden Goat posted:

Stay with me here but what if...

Chest drops were static

I mean, the weird thing is that the important ones are. While you can get some decent equipment from randomized chests earlier than normal if you get lucky or abuse RNG (which really isn't worth the time), it's nothing you can't buy within a town or two, and by the endgame, the only randomized chest stuff worth caring about is getting duplicates of things you normally only get one of (like the Brave Suit).

Static chest drops all around would be better, I agree, but ultimately it's not a huge deal that would actually hinder your ability to succeed in the game and something you would barely notice if you were just playing through blind.

Now, the random chests in Dragon's Dogma can gently caress right off, because that's where you get the actual useful-in-endgame equipment in that game, especially in the expansion. Ffffuck that game's chests.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:50

Golden Goat: Aug 2, 2012

Harrow posted:

I mean, the weird thing is that the important ones are. While you can get some decent equipment from randomized chests earlier than normal if you get lucky or abuse RNG (which really isn't worth the time), it's nothing you can't buy within a town or two, and by the endgame, the only randomized chest stuff worth caring about is getting duplicates of things you normally only get one of (like the Brave Suit).

Cut out the trash treasures and leave the important ones or make the important 100% ones different looking from normal chests.

Currently either you just pick up everything and get the important ones or you consider most treasure trash and skip tons of them.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 17:55

Cephas: May 11, 2009; Humanity's real enemy is me!
Hya hya foowah!

WaltherFeng posted:

This translated part from an old interview with Ito adresses some FFXII talk:

Ito: One way to play the original game is to just become strong and barrel through; every character will get stronger if you just acquire every license from the starting point as you go. This isn't what I had had in mind. I wanted people to choose this license and that one, with each of the six characters going in different directions. I wanted the players to worry about [which licenses to acquire] as they played, and develop their own styles.

Whether it's a treasure or whatever, what happens is "destiny", and the player has to accept it and keep going. I thought the original version had this, but one part of me thought that it ended up not functioning very well. There are treasures that sometimes have gil and sometimes items, and if you only got a few gil, I wanted the player to value that small amount of money and keep making progress. But in fact, [some people] just reset until they get the item they want, don't they? It's difficult to make it so that the player has to accept the finality that the item [that they desired] wasn't there

it's okay, Ito-san, that's how I play your game and I'm cool with accepting destiny :kiddo:

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:01

Golden Goat: Aug 2, 2012

Cephas posted:

it's okay, Ito-san, that's how I play your game and I'm cool with accepting destiny

You fool! You've learnt nothing from Final Fantasy!

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:02

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Cephas posted:

it's okay, Ito-san, that's how I play your game and I'm cool with accepting destiny

Sounds like somebody needa an emotional heart to heart with Vaan before I enter the Pharos Lighthouse with you

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:17

Golden Goat: Aug 2, 2012

I'll drop the chest discussion after this, sorry if I come off as disliking the game I really do like it a lot it's just there's just little bits and pieces that are off to me.

So my main issue is how it's teaching the player.
It's meant to teach a player to move on with whatever they get but it doesn't teach that unless the player knows beforehand that chests are random.
It's teaching players that chests are mostly trash and then when a player finally gets a spell that they can't buy in shops suddenly it's now every chest should be opened so now you have to slog through tons of worthless chests because you now know one might be a really important spell.

They could have maybe split chests between consumables, equipment and spells. So instead of a certain chest having either a potion or a piece of equipment it could have a possibility of one out of two equipment pieces instead.

Spell chests could have been in those urn chests that contain maps. Chests could be static. There could be less chests but more valuable items frequently.

There's multiple ways to make that sense of valuing chest contents and making exploration special but instead it feels like you're sifting through a lot of trash constantly to find the good stuff.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:23

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

Yeah, I mean, I think we all generally agree that random chests suck. Even when it isn't a huge deal, as it isn't in FFXII, it's still an annoyance and it certainly doesn't add anything. And like you noted, if random probably-nothing chests look the same as static, this-is-the-only-place-to-find-this-spell chests, it's a lot more likely that a new player will skip over really helpful static chests because they've learned that most chests are nothing worth going out of your way for.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:29

Sakurazuka: Jan 24, 2004; NANI?

I love fighting through a group of enemies for a chest that has 6 gil in it.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:31

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

I'm never gonna grind chests for the ultimate weapons and that sounds fine to me

Of course, I've got a completed anima in FF14 so I've done much worse

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:31

precision: May 7, 2006; by VideoGames

You have so little gil in the first 10 hours or so that I have always been happy when I get 200 gil in a chest :shobon:

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:33

Saint Freak: Apr 16, 2007; Regretting is an insult to oneself; Buglord

Perhaps the real treasure is the discussions we get to have about treasure along the way.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:35

DoubleCakes: Jan 14, 2015

I'm up to the Pharos and this game has gotten too easy. It's really disappointing because I have a lot of memories of struggling through FF12 and this version isn't delivering. I'll try Weak Mode in the future but I don't know if it'll scratch the itch and if it will be too hard.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:54

Barudak: May 7, 2007

DoubleCakes posted:

I'm up to the Pharos and this game has gotten too easy. It's really disappointing because I have a lot of memories of struggling through FF12 and this version isn't delivering. I'll try Weak Mode in the future but I don't know if it'll scratch the itch and if it will be too hard.

The game is real easy, and IZJS changes to job system made it way easier.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 18:58

Capsaicin: Nov 17, 2004; broof roof roof

How the gently caress do I afford things in this game? I'm at Ozmone Plain, about level 14/15 and I can't afford a single new weapon or armor unless I farm the hell out of enemies for things that sell for 20-40 gil a piece.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 19:35

Phantasium: Dec 27, 2012

You go to the mines, to the bridge where the skeletons respawn, and then hit L1.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 19:36

precision: May 7, 2006; by VideoGames

There hasn't been a difficult mainline FF game since literally the NES era. Occasionally there will be a bullshit boss you need to gain some levels for but that's pretty much it. The closest thing to a challenging modern FF game was FF13 (to a lesser extent, 13-2) because it actually required you to interact with a system more nuanced than "keep attacking and healing and cast what it's weak against".

# ? Jul 19, 2017 19:36

Levantine: Feb 14, 2005; GUNDAM!!!

Capsaicin posted:

How the gently caress do I afford things in this game? I'm at Ozmone Plain, about level 14/15 and I can't afford a single new weapon or armor unless I farm the hell out of enemies for things that sell for 20-40 gil a piece.

You need to sell all your items in the "Loot" category, if you aren't already. Even the worst items sell for more than 20-40 gil (pebbles aside). I have an "Enemy HP 100% = Steal" gambit on my leader that gets me extra items. Have the rest of the party attack the leader's target so you don't waste time stealing from an enemy that doesn't have anything. I always have money to upgrade my main team, at least.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 19:38

hagie: Apr 6, 2004; All sensitivity has long ago atrophied

Am I able to have 2 Sword of Kings? I am on that quest, and some how got the item in the trial mode...

# ? Jul 19, 2017 19:49

mbt: Aug 13, 2012

hagie posted:

Am I able to have 2 Sword of Kings? I am on that quest, and some how got the item in the trial mode...

yes. by the time you get the usable sword of kings its outdated

DoubleCakes posted:

I'm up to the Pharos and this game has gotten too easy. It's really disappointing because I have a lot of memories of struggling through FF12 and this version isn't delivering. I'll try Weak Mode in the future but I don't know if it'll scratch the itch and if it will be too hard.

while "do the optional endgame content" is probably your answer, a lot of people like the challenge in fighting all the optional espers / marks as soon as they're available. It would have been pretty rad if they had made it basically open-world from the start (all hunts available) but eh.

if you wait to do any hunts/espers until post pharos then I dunno what to tell you lol yeah youre gonna steamroll it

meanwhile I'm here trying to kill every esper exclusively with gil toss

# ? Jul 19, 2017 20:03

Golden Goat: Aug 2, 2012

There's a couple of difficult hunts they give you that are fun to do early enough.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 20:06

Sakurazuka: Jan 24, 2004; NANI?

I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a chop today.

Thought I was in danger of running out of money but then I decided to sell all my weapons and armour that was red numbers for everyone now I'm back up to 200,000.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 20:06

corn in the bible: Jun 5, 2004; Oh no oh god it's all true!

Golden Goat posted:

Welcome to my low level FFXII run where I'll be grinding knots of rust for hours.

in Zodiac Age you can just make everyone a machinist as one of their jobs

# ? Jul 19, 2017 20:07

Sakurazuka: Jan 24, 2004; NANI?

Shame you can't take two of the same job

# ? Jul 19, 2017 20:09

Golden Goat: Aug 2, 2012

Double guns for everyone!

# ? Jul 19, 2017 20:10

corn in the bible: Jun 5, 2004; Oh no oh god it's all true!

Harrow posted:

Yeah, I mean, I think we all generally agree that random chests suck. Even when it isn't a huge deal, as it isn't in FFXII, it's still an annoyance and it certainly doesn't add anything. And like you noted, if random probably-nothing chests look the same as static, this-is-the-only-place-to-find-this-spell chests, it's a lot more likely that a new player will skip over really helpful static chests because they've learned that most chests are nothing worth going out of your way for.

I think it's a huge deal that bravery and dispel are in chests in dungeons you'll probably never return to and nowhere else in the world, so either you notice the brown chests in the brown dungeon or you go without a spell that's essentially necessary for fighting bosses.

Hell, they even tossed some spells that you could buy in vanilla into chests for added confusion and sadness

# ? Jul 19, 2017 20:11

Theotus: Nov 8, 2014

corn in the bible posted:

I think it's a huge deal that bravery and dispel are in chests in dungeons you'll probably never return to and nowhere else in the world, so either you notice the brown chests in the brown dungeon or you go without a spell that's essentially necessary for fighting bosses.

Hell, they even tossed some spells that you could buy in vanilla into chests for added confusion and sadness

It's annoying. I have to go back to the area anyway for an Esper but magic in chests was a stupid design decision.

# ? Jul 19, 2017 20:19

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# ? May 24, 2024 01:57

mbt: Aug 13, 2012

i realized I never picked up float. I just forgot it was a spell and have been throwing my body into traps for 20 hours. Of course it's a single chest somewhere lol

having chest-only magic sucks, but having no way of finding it in-game sucks more, but having all the chests switched around and 90% of internet guides referencing regular FF12 and not FF12-IZJS item locations sucks the most

i knew the second I wanted ardor or holy that it would be in literally the last place in the game because muh balance. Lets keep seitengrat in the game and make espers better and quickenings not use MP and allow two jobs but not let people use a bunch of neat spells at all

e: for anyone looking for Holy, have fun, it's hell to get. Pharos on the brainpan floors, kill greens / flee from reds until it makes a bridge. Then kill reds and flee from greens until it makes another bridge. You'll have to switch zones 4-5 times. If you kill one of the other color on accident I think it subtracts a bridge stage.

mbt fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jul 19, 2017

# ? Jul 19, 2017 20:40

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