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I remember that one asset forfeiture in Michigan I think where the cops busted in this family's house and tried on all the mom's underwear, pooped on her bed, punched holes in all the walls, took the money from her kids' piggy banks, and left her sex toys strewn all over the house. Good policing by those brave boys in blue.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:16
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Beyond what others have said: It's a civil court case where the government claims it has a right to take property because the property was involved in an illicit transaction. Sort of like a quiet title or foreclosure case, the point of the case is to establish title to the property. Property used in a crime is considered to belong to the government as of the time of the crime, and that's the basis for the government's civil suit where it claims it should have title. Because it's in civil court, the government need not prove its case up to the significantly higher standards of criminal culpability (and so, the government doesn't actually have to prove a crime took place, which is where this starts smelling funny to most people). The argument is not that the property literally committed a crime, naming it as the defendant is just the mechanism for the government making its claim. If this sounds ripe for abuse, that's because it is. eviltastic fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 19:16
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FlamingLiberal posted:DOJ released their new asset forfeiture policy and as expected it's bad. Now allows the Feds to seize property of anyone, even those not charged with a crime, including in states where that is prohibited by state law. Sounds about right for this administration. Income redistribution in reverse.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:16
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Rigel posted:The courts allowed it for the same reason that RICO laws were allowed to be hilariously punitive and easily abused. Just like with the mob, the courts basically said "ok drat it, we normally wouldn't allow this, but those wily drug dealers are often so good at avoiding being caught, we'll let you just keep the money if someone is carrying around a crazy amount of cash." What constitutes a "Crazy amount" being completely dependent upon what the prosecutor feels like you should rightfully have. White guy with a c-suite job, a nice house, and a nice car? Sure you can carry $100k cash just in case you see some jewelry you'd like to buy your wife, no problem! Brown skin and work your rear end off as a roofer? Yeah that $2k you have is clearly drug related you're lucky we don't try and charge you for giving false statements when you said you were on your way to buy a new custom toolbox for your work truck. Also supposedly you are able to fight to keep the forfeiture from happening but the prosecutor will try everything they can to prevent you from being allowed to do so.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:17
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Eltoasto posted:Ok, so is the DoJ policy actually changing anything? Is it that it's going to be used broader now, or is it just officially stating what they have been doing all along?
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Jul 19, 2017 19:17
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BiggerBoat posted:Did she vote for McCain and Romney? My grandmother, who died 5 years ago, never got beyond seeing things in terms of race, like EVER, and made a "joke" to me once about being a "President Lover". Haha, get it? She probably did. Her views on race are....antiquated. But she's slowing down now, and I know the only thing informing her vote is straight propaganda.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:17
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Eltoasto posted:Ok, so is the DoJ policy actually changing anything? Is it that it's going to be used broader now, or is it just officially stating what they have been doing all along? I think during Obama, the DOJ issued a directive saying "ummm, maybe we should back off on seizing cash", and Sessions just released a memo saying "lol gently caress that, take all the money, MAGA!"
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Jul 19, 2017 19:17
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I wonder if Sessions is preparing to move against the high finance legal marijuana growers.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:19
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Grapplejack posted:You can see this on both sides of the isle tbh Not really, no I can't. I can seek out left wing articles that make me feel good and pump up my inner liberal animal if I feel like it but none of them deny science, ask me to prey my bisexuality away or attempt to to convince me that greed is a christ like virtue. So, no, I disagree.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:20
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https://twitter.com/eilperin/status/887737226767060992 https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/887738260998565893
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Jul 19, 2017 19:20
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Rigel posted:The owner gets due process, its just that the standard of proof is a hell of a lot lower, and many rules are relaxed. I think you just need to say that someone is at least 51% likely to be guilty, and pleading the 5th can be held against you for asset forfeiture. Also they don't need to prove guilt before taking your poo poo, they take your poo poo, and then you have to prove innocence (or at least less than 51%) to get it back. Except we're talking about people who haven't even been charged. You can't prove innocence if you're not even charged.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:21
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Fart Amplifier posted:Except we're talking about people who haven't even been charged. You can't prove innocence if you're not even charged. Not relevant for asset forfeiture. In court they will tell the judge that they could not prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but they have plenty of evidence for the lower standard to take all your cash. edit: actually they wouldn't even admit that, they'd probably say they are still investigating and deciding whether to charge.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:22
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Dietrich posted:Whatever you do, don't read the The Quantum Thief series. Unless you have a degree in advanced mathematics anyway (tho that applies more to the fractal prince). A lot of dystopian sci-fi has suddenly started looking optimistic, it's pretty sad. Between the current administration's drive to remove all safety regulations and Monsanto's general evilness, the Wind-up girl is probably best-case too 
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Jul 19, 2017 19:22
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:United States v. One Tyrannosaurus Bataar Skeleton (2013). The case was brought to stop the sale of a dinosaur skeleton that had allegedly been looted from the Gobi Desert in violation of Mongolian law.[5] This one in particular led indirectly to one of the greatest headlines of the past few years.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:23
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BiggerBoat posted:Did she vote for McCain and Romney? My grandmother, who died 5 years ago, never got beyond seeing things in terms of race, like EVER, and made a "joke" to me once about being a "President Lover". Haha, get it? And then I wonder how that couple is doing now.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:23
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/eilperin/status/887737226767060992 lmao x1000
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Jul 19, 2017 19:23
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I wonder if Sessions is preparing to move against the high finance legal marijuana growers. I don't know how entrenched the marijuana market is out West. Could he feasibly take down the entire industry and seize literally all of their assets?
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Jul 19, 2017 19:25
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I wonder if Sessions is preparing to move against the high finance legal marijuana growers. He would love to do that, but there is language in the last appropriations bill prohibiting them from spending any money on mj enforcement in legal states. I don't know what the language specifically states but I just had a thought - I wonder if they could wait until someone involved in a MJ operation traveled to a non-legal-mj state and then hit them with the forfeiture laws.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:25
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Demon Of The Fall posted:I remember that one asset forfeiture in Michigan I think where the cops busted in this family's house and tried on all the mom's underwear, pooped on her bed, punched holes in all the walls, took the money from her kids' piggy banks, and left her sex toys strewn all over the house. Good policing by those brave boys in blue. Are you serious? Did this really happen?
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Jul 19, 2017 19:25
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/eilperin/status/887737226767060992 just lol
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Jul 19, 2017 19:26
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The whole drug money angle is definitely there in forfeiture, but it's not just drugs. In some states, forfeiture will be had on any instrumentalities of a felony, like say a 3rd or subsequent dwi, the states could try to take the car. And it isn't just money. You'll see forfeiture for jewelry, nice shoes, good coats. Saw it once against a wedding ring. It's become a formalized system for the sort of police action where you're out at night driving through the boonies and deputy dawg from the nowherevile sheriff dept really likes your shoes, son, how'd a feller like yew come to have such nice shoes, body's gotta wonder.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Property doesn't have Constitutional rights. Literally. The property is charged. "Property is people, my friends."
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Jul 19, 2017 19:27
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/eilperin/status/887737226767060992 Hahaha, oh my god. They need to grow spines just so they can point this out to him with such mockery that it even drills through the ferret on his head.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:27
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Demon Of The Fall posted:I remember that one asset forfeiture in Michigan I think where the cops busted in this family's house and tried on all the mom's underwear, pooped on her bed, punched holes in all the walls, took the money from her kids' piggy banks, and left her sex toys strewn all over the house. Good policing by those brave boys in blue. https://twitter.com/justin_fenton/status/887504546074939393 So brave.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:27
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/eilperin/status/887737226767060992 lol wow. They are in two safe, red districts and they just were re-elected which means they don't go back up for re-election for 6 years!
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Jul 19, 2017 19:28
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Azhais posted:Unless you have a degree in advanced mathematics anyway (tho that applies more to the fractal prince). I got by ok with my history in computer science. I will say that after reading the series I had a completely different understanding of the Ghost in the Shell series, tho.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:28
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/eilperin/status/887737226767060992 I really want to see him try to fire Senators. Like, publicly in a speech.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:28
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Demon Of The Fall posted:I remember that one asset forfeiture in Michigan I think where the cops busted in this family's house and tried on all the mom's underwear, pooped on her bed, punched holes in all the walls, took the money from her kids' piggy banks, and left her sex toys strewn all over the house. Good policing by those brave boys in blue. I didn't know that Charles C. Johnson became a cop. Looks like he also stepped his game up by pooping on the bed.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:30
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Rigel posted:He would probably, in his stupid, incoherent manner of speaking, describe something that sounds a lot like single-payer. I think Trump wants universal health care to please the masses, but really cheap right away so he can save money on taxes right now. And also not to cover any of his least favorite minorities.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:30
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Covok posted:lol wow. They are in two safe, red districts and they just were re-elected which means they don't go back up for re-election for 6 years! Thanks for summarising that second tweet into a longer sentence
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Jul 19, 2017 19:31
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Fitzy Fitz posted:I don't know how entrenched the marijuana market is out West. Could he feasibly take down the entire industry and seize literally all of their assets? yes, if he wanted to make far more enemies than he gains in supporters
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Jul 19, 2017 19:31
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Shifty Pony posted:He would love to do that, but there is language in the last appropriations bill prohibiting them from spending any money on mj enforcement in legal states. Forfeiture can end up self financing. Police depts. Use this all the time to get around local budget limitations. Forfeit big enough and you have your own independent budget.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:31
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Randbrick posted:The whole drug money angle is definitely there in forfeiture, but it's not just drugs. In some states, forfeiture will be had on any instrumentalities of a felony, like say a 3rd or subsequent dwi, the states could try to take the car. It's horrifying but please tell me cops have actually used forfeiture to take people's shoes like Jay and Ice in Hocus Pocus
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Jul 19, 2017 19:32
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Thanks for summarising that second tweet into a longer sentence You're welcome!
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Jul 19, 2017 19:38
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https://twitter.com/adamgoldmanNYT/status/887742659447730180
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Jul 19, 2017 19:40
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Indy Star also had a funny article today about how Pence can't talk about the one good thing he did as governor, which was accepting the Medicaid expansion.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:45
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BarbarianElephant posted:I think Trump wants universal health care to please the masses, but really cheap right away so he can save money on taxes right now. And also not to cover any of his least favorite minorities. Single-payer for whites (minus gays) could be the new GOP platform and would get support. Other races can be easily added in the future.
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Jul 19, 2017 19:49
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It's almost as if GOP senators need a union. Or something. iono it's dumb from top to bottom
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Jul 19, 2017 19:51
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Eltoasto posted:Indy Star also had a funny article today about how Pence can't talk about the one good thing he did as governor, which was accepting the Medicaid expansion. lmao this really is the stupidest thing
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Jul 19, 2017 19:51
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Rad Russian posted:Single-payer for whites (minus gays) could be the new GOP platform and would get support. Other races can be easily added in the future. Wasn't this more or less the platform under FDR?
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Jul 19, 2017 19:52
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