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Reik posted:Well, they should.
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Jul 20, 2017 20:58
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mcmagic posted:Compare that clunky nonsense to Corbyn's messaging.... They should just steal his messaging and also his policies. Hmm but he lost his election Democrats should be just like Macron.
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Jul 20, 2017 20:59
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Hmm but he lost his election Democrats should be just like Macron. the democrats: "rejoice mortals, for we have passed a new trade bill!"
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Jul 20, 2017 21:00
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:People are treating it as an insult because "skills retraining" has an extremely mixed record in actual practice if even attempted at all. Some of the same people complaining about this on twitter were complaining about Democrats not emphasizing the same issue last year though. I'm not saying everyone's in this group, but there does seem to be a cottage industry devoted to saying the Democrats are loving up no matter what they do.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:01
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Sinteres posted:Some of the same people complaining about this on twitter were complaining about Democrats not emphasizing the same issue last year though. I'm not saying everyone's in this group, but there does seem to be a cottage industry devoted to saying the Democrats are loving up no matter what they do. you're trying way too hard to carry water for the dems they've had 8 months to come up with a message and the best they can do is "better skills. better jobs. better pay"
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Jul 20, 2017 21:03
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Sinteres posted:Some of the same people complaining about this on twitter were complaining about Democrats not emphasizing the same issue last year though. I'm not saying everyone's in this group, but there does seem to be a cottage industry devoted to saying the Democrats are loving up no matter what they do. Who, on Twitter, indicated that the Democrats should be emphasizing "skills" last year?
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Jul 20, 2017 21:03
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It is a lovely slogan. Not like offensively bad or insulting, but it is lovely. It has no theme, it's 3 times too long, it does not hook or relate to anything of itself and has no thematic relationship to a proposed policy from th dems that I'm aware of. It is a lovely slogan.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:03
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I'm really not sure why "too long; didn't read LOL" is a thing these people are totally comfortable saying about the massively controversial bill in front of them that will absolutely effect tens of millions of people one way or another. What happened to the good ol' days, when they respected their constituents enough to bother lying about things like that?
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Jul 20, 2017 21:03
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Sinteres posted:Some of the same people complaining about this on twitter were complaining about Democrats not emphasizing the same issue last year though. I'm not saying everyone's in this group, but there does seem to be a cottage industry devoted to saying the Democrats are loving up no matter what they do. Well you see, if everyone lost faith with the Democrats then the left could sweep in and pick up the pieces with such inspiring messages as "Vote Peta Lindsay 2012, because it's time for a 28-year-old as President" (not an actual slogan, but Peta Lindsay was 28 and running as the PSL's presidential candidate). Yes, that is what the PSL thought the biggest possible problem with America in 2012 was.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:04
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The "skills" part is just dogshit.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:04
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Bicyclops posted:Who, on Twitter, indicated that the Democrats should be emphasizing "skills" last year? I didn't take detailed notes, but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned as something Democrats should have emphasized as part of an effort to reach out to working class people in the post-election analysis. The government can't magic up jobs for all of these people, so doing things to help make them more competitive seems like a good idea to me, even if it's not a panacea.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:05
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https://twitter.com/dailykos/status/888125270502264832   edit: retracted maybe? maybe a paul did a good? Condiv fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 21:06
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Sinteres posted:I didn't take detailed notes, but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned as something Democrats should have emphasized as part of an effort to reach out to working class people in the post-election analysis. It wasn't. God knows the last thing the world needs is more loving programmers.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:06
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Sinteres posted:I'm not saying everyone's in this group, but there does seem to be a cottage industry devoted to saying the Democrats are loving up no matter what they do. This is driven by anxiety due to the fact that losing major elections to the GOP usually has terrifying long-term consequences. The fear of losing is so high that any slight sign that things aren't working jolts people into yelling at the Dems that they are loving up. I'm not immune, so I'll join in. Clintonian triangulation and worrying about deficits is not working. The Dems should be loud, proud, unapologetically progressive, at least on a national level. I'll let Senators from lovely red states figure out what works for their idiot electorate.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:08
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quote:There’s also a racial discrimination in the bail system, Sens. Harris and Paul argue. Black and Latino arrestees are less likely to post bail—and are charged higher bail than their white counterparts. I mean, I wouldn't get freaked out. The bill is intended to make it easier to post bail by setting it lower and making it illegal to set it higher based on race. It has support of numerous agencies who fight for civil rights.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:08
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Sinteres posted:I didn't take detailed notes, but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned as something Democrats should have emphasized as part of an effort to reach out to working class people in the post-election analysis. The government can't magic up jobs for all of these people, so doing things to help make them more competitive seems like a good idea to me, even if it's not a panacea. It might be good policy, but the November election has really demonstrated good policy isn't necessarily exciting or popular policy. And what a slogan really needs to be is exciting and popular.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:08
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Oops! Looks like you'll have to look elsewhere for your flawless leftist candidate for 2020! Or alternatively you could stop making perfect the enemy of good and read the article. quote:n the current system, the vast majority of defendants cannot afford to pay bail. A New York Times Magazine story from 2015 found that 85% of arrestees cannot afford bail even when it’s set at $500 or lower. According to a 2015 report by the Prison Policy Initiative, many Americans are stuck in the system simply because they are too poor. Now I have no doubt that Rand Paul will somehow find a way to gently caress this up, but at least on its face it seems like a good thing.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:09
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"Skills retraining" generally amounts to some basic computer literacy classes, because real skills retraining is very expensive and hard.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:09
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In case you don't feel like reading past the lede with the dream team quote:So to improve the system, the bill incentives aim to change how they do the bail process. It would create a $10 million grant to states who reform or replace their pretrial release processes. In an official statement, Sen. Harris’ office writes that states have to create “individualized, pretrial assessments with risk-based decision-making” to qualify.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:09
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BlueberryCanary posted:It might be good policy, but the November election has really demonstrated good policy isn't necessarily exciting or popular policy. And what a slogan really needs to be is exciting and popular. 2016: Charisma isn't a dump stat
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Jul 20, 2017 21:09
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Rigel posted:This is driven by anxiety due to the fact that losing major elections to the GOP usually has terrifying long-term consequences. The fear of losing is so high that any slight sign that things aren't working jolts people into yelling at the Dems that they are loving up. You're never going to look that dumb making GBS threads on establishment democrats. They are losers who suck at their jobs.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:10
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Covok posted:I mean, I wouldn't get freaked out. The bill is intended to make it easier to post bail by setting it lower and making it illegal to set it higher based on race. It has support of numerous agencies who fight for civil rights. yeah i'm reading the op-ed by harris and paul right now it's not great, but it's better than what we had and it doesn't seem to be that bad. i worry that the "risk-assessment" part will be easily abused, but if it reduces bail for a good deal of people that's still a win
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Jul 20, 2017 21:11
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Nutso libertarians like Paul can occasionally be relied on when it comes to criminal justice procedural matters.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:12
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Condiv posted:https://twitter.com/dailykos/status/888125270502264832 Paul has always been good on prison reform and restoring felons' rights.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:12
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Condiv posted:https://twitter.com/dailykos/status/888125270502264832 This actually seems fine. Harris's treatment of big financial institutions in CA is much more bothersome to me.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:13
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Condiv posted:yeah i'm reading the op-ed by harris and paul right now Admittedly that's the part I also worry would be abused but all systems are open to abuse and I'll take a system with some problems that helps out a lot of these people that can't post bail over the current system.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:13
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Condiv posted:you're trying way too hard to carry water for the dems You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't both expect democrats to have 8 months to perfect a message and also reach out and learn lessons from 2016. It is good that they didn't start crafting 2018's messaging in late November. If the most people can complain about is that they included skills (education) rather than just jobs and wages is a great sign.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:14
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HappyHippo posted:it's somewhat infuriating that republicans were able to run and win on repeal and replace for 7 years when the reality is they have no plan and never did. and people fell for it. LIterally just saying "we know you are mad about the cost of healthcare and we are gonna fix it" with no details won an election. But we can't run on single payer because
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Jul 20, 2017 21:14
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Teddybear posted:Nutso libertarians like Paul can occasionally be relied on when it comes to criminal justice procedural matters. Yeah, this. I'm not worried about Harris working with Paul on issues like these.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:14
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Jaxyon posted:LIterally just saying "we know you are mad about the cost of healthcare and we are gonna fix it" with no details won an election. Trump ran on criticizing the ACA from the left to the extent that he had any actual policy issues with it.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:15
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Jaxyon posted:
the us left never stops whining about broken or incomplete promises, the gop doesn't have this disadvantage
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Jul 20, 2017 21:15
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Jaxyon posted:LIterally just saying "we know you are mad about the cost of healthcare and we are gonna fix it" with no details won an election. Which election? Because lol if you're claiming that's how Trump won.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:15
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boner confessor posted:the us left never stops whining about broken or incomplete promises, the gop doesn't have this disadvantage Also, the Left actually cares about policy. Republicans don't.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:16
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Condiv posted:https://twitter.com/dailykos/status/888125270502264832 here's another thing you may have wanted to read before freaking out. quote:The bill already has widespread support with endorsements from over 40 prominent organizations, including the ACLU, the NAACP, and the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:17
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Krispy Kareem posted:Trump knows what health insurance is. It sounds like he’s trying to express how coverage is cheaper when you’re younger, but you buy it when you’re healthy so you have it when you’re old. The GOP plan tried to force continuation of coverage through premium costs rather than a mandate so it aligns with that. He’s just doing a terrible job of explaining himself. Are you sure YOU know what health insurance is? You don't build up equity in health insurance by having it a long time.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:17
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Jaxyon posted:LIterally just saying "we know you are mad about the cost of healthcare and we are gonna fix it" with no details won an election. To be fair, there's a difference between running on a specific policy like single-payer and running on "we've got a great plan, just imagine whatever your ideal plan is, that's what we're going to do".
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Jul 20, 2017 21:17
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538 made a really good 'what-if clinton won'. I think its probably very accurate. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/if-clinton-had-won/
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Jul 20, 2017 21:18
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Jaxyon posted:LIterally just saying "we know you are mad about the cost of healthcare and we are gonna fix it" with no details won an election. Because Republicans have massive built in advantages in both chambers of Congress and Democrats still haven't figured out a way to even remotely pay for single payer yet. Trying to play catch up with the rest of the civilized world on healthcare long after the market inflated our costs through the loving roof is going to be expensive as hell, and sloganeering about it is way easier than actually doing it. Republicans are finding out that even smashing something is harder than saying it, and single payer is going to be a hell of a lot harder than that.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:18
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democrats: "we will target $12 minimum wage in some areas, $15 in others, until we reach a gradual sustained living wage across broad areas of..." american left electorate: "not good enough from the WAR CRIMINAL OBAMA" republicans: "we will ban islam and cut taxes until all americans are employed in the same carefree high paying jobs they had just out of high school" american right electorate: *wild applause, hooting*
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Jul 20, 2017 21:18
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Let's Come up with Dem Slogans ITT: America For All Rebuild Freedom
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Jul 20, 2017 21:19
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