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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:Here's another datapoint: every single time the minimum wage has been raised, nationwide, in the history of ever, has not increased unemployment As an employer wage labor in Seattle, I vowed to never pay anyone who works for me under 20$/hr. Doing just fine. No cafe or bar that I have connection to has gone under had any issue due to 15$/hr min wage. It's a bollocks argument and any who makes an argument against 15$/hr min wage a.) doesnt know how labor actually work b.) is a piece of poo poo. 
BlueBlazer fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 23:34
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twice burned ice posted:This is great. I hope to one day I piss enough people off that someone will make passive aggressive glitter text about me. It's in the OP man.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:34
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niiiiice https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/888164672083558400
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Jul 20, 2017 23:34
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Rigel posted:My crazyass MAGA brother lives in Kentucky, maybe I can weaponize him into supporting a primary challenge. I'd probably do it by expressing relief at how ineffective he is, and if he actually goes through with working with Dems to fix Obamacare like he threatened earlier, I'll be all over that, praising his reasonable bipartisanship. Do it. Let the hate flow through him. Make him strike him down with his hatred . I'm afraid that the base opposition will be quite operational when he arrives.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:34
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skylined! posted:'reduced sentence offered if willing to donate young strong heart to old white man; plastic replacement only 60% mortality rate' I'm sure there would be a few goons to defend the person who took that deal
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Jul 20, 2017 23:34
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particle9 posted:people who probably shouldn't be having families What people are these? Who decides?
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Jul 20, 2017 23:34
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particle9 posted:I'm not sure calling birth control eugenics is accurate. It isn't a terrible idea to entice people who probably shouldn't be having families to not start families. Eugenics as I understand it is more about selective breeding to create some ultimate ideal. This is more about trying to get people who might have poor decision making abilities not to create life they can't take care of and don't want. If it was forced sterilization you might have more of an argument but even then I don't know that is technically eugenics. Your rationalization is a less obvious form of eugenics.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:35
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skylined! posted:lol that's actually within range of vulnerability in a presidential election year like 2020 will be holy lol I think it's too early to take this a fact instead of a possibility.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:37
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twice burned ice posted:This is great. I hope to one day I piss enough people off that someone will make passive aggressive glitter text about me. 
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Jul 20, 2017 23:39
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theflyingorc posted:don't remember, because it as some dumb news app thing on my phone, no way to get back to it It was probably this stupid study: http://www.nber.org/papers/w23532 That got picked up by a WaPo *blog* entry as "Credible": https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/26/new-study-casts-doubt-on-whether-a-15-minimum-wage-really-helps-workers/?utm_t Then got torn apart: http://fortune.com/2017/06/27/seattle-minimum-wage-study-results-impact-15-dollar-uw/ The study itself basically admitted it removed too much data to be considered credible BUT WELP.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:39
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Trump has decided to give Zuckerberg some free publicity.quote:Interior Dept. ordered Glacier park chief, other climate expert pulled from Zuckerberg tour
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Jul 20, 2017 23:39
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BlueBlazer posted:As an employer wage labor in Seattle, I vowed to never pay anyone who works for me under 20$/hr. Doing just fine. Do you find that you have highly motivated employees as a consequence of that?
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Jul 20, 2017 23:40
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particle9 posted:I'm not sure calling birth control eugenics is accurate. It isn't a terrible idea to entice people who probably shouldn't be having families to not start families. Eugenics as I understand it is more about selective breeding to create some ultimate ideal. This is more about trying to get people who might have poor decision making abilities not to create life they can't take care of and don't want. If it was forced sterilization you might have more of an argument but even then I don't know that is technically eugenics. If you aren't even sure that forced sterilization is eugenics then I'm dying to know what you do consider to be eugenics.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:40
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As long as biases exist in prison system demographic representation, then any sterilization offer is transparently a form of eugenics. There are all kind of factors that affect arrest, conviction rate, and severity of sentences that have ultimately nothing to do with 'did the person commit a crime'. Consider arrest and conviction rates for petty non-violent drug offences.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:41
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enraged_camel posted:The decision to micromanage Zuckerberg’s stop in Montana from 2,232 miles east in Washington, made by top officials at the Interior Department, the National Park Service’s parent agency, was highly unusual — even for a celebrity visit. drat did glowing-fish write this copy
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Jul 20, 2017 23:41
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BonoMan posted:It was probably this stupid study: http://www.nber.org/papers/w23532 The study counted the employees of small single location businesses, which at the time had a minimum wage of 13.50 If an employee left there for a chain company (minimum wage $15), that counted as job loss. If the company opened a second location, that counted as a job loss. Seattle has 2% unemployment. They have a $15 minimum wage and what is effectively a labor shortage.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:42
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FourLeaf posted:If you aren't even sure that forced sterilization is eugenics then I'm dying to know what you do consider to be eugenics. but these inmates are choosing to be sterilised of their own free will, why do you want to take away their freedoms ?  much like how they can choose to not have healthcare and die in the street boner confessor posted:drat did glowing-fish write this copy lmao WeAreTheRomans fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 23:42
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skylined! posted:is it being offered to all for a tax cut or the imprisoned poor for a reduced sentence I get that there is a targeted aspect and that the people offering this probably aren't Planned Parenthood fans but I disagree that it is a covert eugenics program. You can disagree with the idea and I'm not saying it is in anyway ideal but I also don't see the harm. Whatever they can do to help people not have kids is a net win I think. I think there is an argument to be made for sure that there are better ways to offer that help and an argument that down the road you could offer massive jail time grants that essentially force people into this but I don't think that's what this is *yet*. Either way, I wouldn't call it eugenics. I can see the argument against it and for universal contraceptives though. FourLeaf posted:If you aren't even sure that forced sterilization is eugenics then I'm dying to know what you do consider to be eugenics. I would consider forced sterilization eugenics. This isn't forced sterilization was my point originally. They probably see the 30 days as a reward they can give to entice people. I think there are ways they could potentially make it a huge reward that is almost like forcing people though, but that hasn't happened *yet*. particle9 fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 23:44
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Family Research Council's daily prayer for Trump today is creepy It is about letting trans people join the army quote:Heavenly Father, it is time for you to act, for your law is being broken! This policy must be rejected: it brazenly defies You, God our Creator, and Your fixed, eternal moral laws. We defied your definition of marriage, now we defy the very apex of your created order, mankind created in your own image, male and female. Please forgive us, extend Your mercy to us, and grant us repentance.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:44
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particle9 posted:I get that there is a targeted aspect and that the people offering this probably aren't Planned Parenthood fans but I disagree that it is a covert eugenics program. Have you considered the fact that it is?
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Jul 20, 2017 23:45
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particle9 posted:I get that there is a targeted aspect and that the people offering this probably aren't Planned Parenthood fans but I disagree that it is a covert eugenics program. You can disagree with the idea and I'm not saying it is in anyway ideal but I also don't see the harm. Whatever they can do to help people not have kids is a net win I think. I think there is an argument to be made for sure that there are better ways to offer that help and an argument that down the road you could offer massive jail time grants that essentially force people into this but I don't think that's what this is *yet*. Either way, I wouldn't call it eugenics. I can see the argument against it and for universal contraceptives though. they're not getting people's consent appropriately. that's a harm they always do this poo poo with eugenics programs. and then guys like you show up to defend them
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Jul 20, 2017 23:46
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particle9 posted:I get that there is a targeted aspect and that the people offering this probably aren't Planned Parenthood fans but I disagree that it is a covert eugenics program. You can disagree with the idea and I'm not saying it is in anyway ideal but I also don't see the harm. Whatever they can do to help people not have kids is a net win I think. I think there is an argument to be made for sure that there are better ways to offer that help and an argument that down the road you could offer massive jail time grants that essentially force people into this but I don't think that's what this is *yet*. Either way, I wouldn't call it eugenics. I can see the argument against it and for universal contraceptives though. They're not helping people do anything. They're being forced to trade their freedom in exchange for their capacity to bear children.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:47
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Someone start a change.org petition to have McCain's brain tumor implanted into McConnel.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:48
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particle9 posted:I would consider forced sterilization eugenics. This isn't forced sterilization was my point originally. They probably see the 30 days as a reward they can give to entice people. I think there are ways they could potentially make it a huge reward that is almost like forcing people though, but that hasn't happened *yet*. Rephrase it a bit: If you don't get sterilized you will spend 30 days in jail. While it is not "forced" it is coercive as gently caress to the point where it might as well be.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:48
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Weeding out the "morally inept" and "mentally defective" through sterilization was eugenics in the 20th century and it still is eugenics today, especially when consent forms are forged and when you're performing it on people who may be too mentally ill to properly consent anyway. Framing it as just birth control is missing a crucial part of the story in California and quite possibly in Tennessee too. And even when it isn't forced, I'd argue that offering sterilization to inmates to commute their sentences is implicitly motivated by eugenicist thinking even if the intention is not explicitly to "improve the race". E: Not to mention the above points being made that inmates are captives and the choice between sterilization and shortened sentencing is inherently coercive.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:48
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particle9 posted:I get that there is a targeted aspect and that the people offering this probably aren't Planned Parenthood fans but I disagree that it is a covert eugenics program. You can disagree with the idea and I'm not saying it is in anyway ideal but I also don't see the harm. Whatever they can do to help people not have kids is a net win I think. I think there is an argument to be made for sure that there are better ways to offer that help and an argument that down the road you could offer massive jail time grants that essentially force people into this but I don't think that's what this is *yet*. Either way, I wouldn't call it eugenics. I can see the argument against it and for universal contraceptives though. you are needlessly tangling yourself in bad logic to support an abhorrent practice it's eugenics
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Jul 20, 2017 23:49
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Dietrich posted:The study counted the employees of small single location businesses, which at the time had a minimum wage of 13.50 Yep. I actually lost a decent amount of respect for Vox's The Weeds podcast after listening to their episode on this, because they barely addressed the incredibly serious flaws in this study while more or less devoting an entire episode to it. To their credit they did conclude that Seattle's economy is clearly not imploding, but it's frustrating that a pretty bad piece of research is tainting the discussion like this.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:49
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particle9 posted:I get that there is a targeted aspect and that the people offering this probably aren't Planned Parenthood fans but I disagree that it is a covert eugenics program. You can disagree with the idea and I'm not saying it is in anyway ideal but I also don't see the harm. Whatever they can do to help people not have kids is a net win I think. I think there is an argument to be made for sure that there are better ways to offer that help and an argument that down the road you could offer massive jail time grants that essentially force people into this but I don't think that's what this is *yet*. Either way, I wouldn't call it eugenics. I can see the argument against it and for universal contraceptives though. Well, the harm is coercing people into sterilization just because they committed a crime, which has been a key component of eugenics since it first became popular here in the early 1900s. Reminder: the reproductive rights movement wasn't just about birth control and the right to an abortion, it was also about the right to have children because the government (particularly prisons) was sterilizing women (most of whom were black, Latina, or native). edit: vvvv you right, you right
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Jul 20, 2017 23:50
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i am the bird posted:Well, the harm is coercing people into sterilization just because they may or may not have committed a crime, which has been a key component of eugenics since it first became popular here in the early 1900s.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:51
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Nevvy Z posted:What people are these? Who decides? It's a good question. I don't think there is an answer. I think most people would agree that drug addicts in prison shouldn't have kids until they can get their lives together. It's a tough question for sure.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:51
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particle9 posted:It's a good question. I don't think there is an answer. I think most people would agree that drug addicts in prison shouldn't have kids until they can get their lives together. It's a tough question for sure. Maybe the answer starts with not putting drug addicts in prison in the first place.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:52
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particle9 posted:It's a good question. I don't think there is an answer. I think most people would agree that drug addicts in prison shouldn't have kids until they can get their lives together. It's a tough question for sure. well gee whizz, sure are some head-scratching questions here. better support a shameful eugenics program just to be safe
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Jul 20, 2017 23:52
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particle9 posted:It's a good question. I don't think there is an answer. I think most people would agree that drug addicts in prison shouldn't have kids until they can get their lives together. It's a tough question for sure. No it's really not. There's an easy answer. Your opinion on this is bad and you should feel bad.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:53
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So Trump's threatened by a person smarter than him, richer than him and half his age. Sounds about right.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:53
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Petr posted:What was that Jessica Roy tweet people were laughing about earlier in the thread? Whatever it was, she deleted it and apologized. Check my post history for the story she misremembered. (Phoneposting, but she said that McCain told a friend's husband with brain cancer that if he wants health care he should move to another state Which was... true ish but not perfectly true) Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 23:54
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particle9 posted:It's a good question. I don't think there is an answer. I think most people would agree that drug addicts in prison shouldn't have kids until they can get their lives together. It's a tough question for sure. "These people are unfit to have children; therefore, they should be sterilized" is loving eugenics.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:54
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TARDISman posted:So Trump's threatened by a person who exists. Sounds about right. FTFY
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Jul 20, 2017 23:54
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It is pretty cool that trump had John McCain assassinated.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:55
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Sure, California was illegally sterilizing women without their knowledge or consent as recently as 2010, but I'm sure this other program will steer clear of all those pitfalls.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:57
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i am the bird posted:"These people are unfit to have children; therefore, they should be sterilized" is loving eugenics. So I did some reading on compulsory sterilization and found this: "148 female prisoners in two California institutions were sterilized between 2006 and 2010 in a supposedly voluntary program, but it was determined that the prisoners did not give consent to the procedures.[71] In September 2014, California enacted Bill SB 1135 that bans sterilization in correctional facilities, unless the procedure shall be required in a medical emergency to preserve inmate's life" Yeah... I see how this is bad. I guess I just saw it more as a birth control thing.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:57
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