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Hieronymous Alloy posted:A better question: does the pardon have to specify what he is pardoning, or could he issue a blanket pardon for "all potential or alleged crimes" or words to that effect. Ford posted:Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974. It being Trump, he'd likely not limit the time period for crimes which he is pardoning his cronies.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:56
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did we all miss that rex tillerson (via exxon in 2014), current secretary of state, violated russian sanctions? because lol https://twitter.com/NancyAsk/status/888213402824396802
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Jul 21, 2017 02:56
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Trump can create legal absurdities if he really wants to, and eventually the courts would go probably go LOLNOPE, but nobody knows for sure.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:58
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Condiv posted:and then he pardons them again? at what point does this person see jail time? Are they wealthy and white?
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Jul 21, 2017 02:58
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:In this scenario who exactly is prosecuting Trump and contesting his power to self-pardon? Sessions? Presidents aren't actually immune to normal laws, there is just a longstanding tradition of "it'd be really hosed up" presidents can get sued in regular court (like bill clinton was which was what got him under oath to even have a perjury charge) and criminal charges apply too, like Ulysses Grant getting a speeding ticket. Like there is a real big thing in america of "jesus christ lets not gently caress with messing the president with the normal legal system" but there isn't actually magic immunity to any of it. It's just a gentleman's agreement to lay off that stuff.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:58
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Your Taint posted:Also LOL at the spokesman for the Trump legal team resigning. He's not gonna deal with that poo poo anymore. He’s probably who leaked all this tonight.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:59
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Crabtree posted:Our laws are written on precedent and Trump is that brave new frontier for the constitution! precedent says that humanity is/was total crap when the founding fathers wrote the constitution. therefore, they were morons
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Jul 21, 2017 02:59
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:In this scenario who exactly is prosecuting Trump and contesting his power to self-pardon? Sessions?
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Jul 21, 2017 02:59
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It's insanely cool how obviously and clearly guilty Trump is but like 35% of the US population has effectively decided that we should let him go.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:02
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Trump: "They cannot arrest a president and vice president for the same crime! *winks*"
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Jul 21, 2017 03:02
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Trump cartoonishly telling congress to gently caress off if someone is in contempt of congress by abusing the pardon power might be the only real thing that could turn GOP legislators against him. He would be attacking their own powers directly.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:03
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Chance of a tweet pardon rising. https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/888217859750584321 This song is for the rats, who hurl themselves into the ocean, when they see that the explosives in the cargo hold, are just about to go.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Hopefully January. . .is it 20th? 2021 2025.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:06
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surely the senate is getting to the point where they should be thinking "okay gently caress trump let's go with pence" im not saying that's better but dear god man.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:06
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Keep in mind that at this point it's unclear if there's any part of the government that is ready to enforce consequences upon Trump and his legion if they are actually found guilty of anything. All of this investigating is a moot point if there are no consequences. He could be found guilty of murder and if no one will sentence him or take him to prison it's meaningless. I would like to think that the system will function properly, but I don't think it will. This Mueller investigation will go nowhere because congress will refuse to act on anything it turns up.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:07
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Presidents aren't actually immune to normal laws, there is just a longstanding tradition of "it'd be really hosed up" presidents can get sued in regular court (like bill clinton was which was what got him under oath to even have a perjury charge) and criminal charges apply too, like Ulysses Grant getting a speeding ticket. Wait, really? All that's stopping it is precedence and ~~~decorum~~~? gently caress that. If he's breaking every norm that should have been a law in the first place, the oppositions should feel free to do the same.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:08
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CrocodileKingSaysNO posted:surely the senate is getting to the point where they should be thinking "okay gently caress trump let's go with pence" Maybe, but the Senate doesn't get a say in filing articles of Impeachment. They just get to be the jury.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:08
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Aves Maria! posted:precedent says that humanity is/was total crap when the founding fathers wrote the constitution. therefore, they were morons These people had to write the bill of rights just to get the constitution off the ground and some of them thought slavery would magically just disappear if we left it alone.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:08
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Dick Trauma posted:Keep in mind that at this point it's unclear if there's any part of the government that is ready to enforce consequences upon Trump and his legion if they are actually found guilty of anything. All of this investigating is a moot point if there are no consequences. He could be found guilty of murder and if no one will sentence him or take him to prison it's meaningless. oh boy here's the nothing matters brigade
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Jul 21, 2017 03:08
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sean10mm posted:Trump can create legal absurdities if he really wants to, and eventually the courts would go probably go LOLNOPE, but nobody knows for sure. In a 5 to 4 decision...
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Jul 21, 2017 03:08
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Gyges posted:Maybe, but the Senate doesn't get a say in filing articles of Impeachment. They just get to be the jury. Eh, McConnell could grab Ryan's balls and squeeze a bit, and Ryan would happily comply.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:09
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mastajake posted:Wait, really? All that's stopping it is precedence and ~~~decorum~~~? gently caress that. If he's breaking every norm that should have been a law in the first place, the oppositions should feel free to do the same. Counterplan: the opposition should codify the norms being broken rather than do their best to end the Republic.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:10
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Google Butt posted:oh boy here's the nothing matters brigade Please feel free to explain your confidence in our government to properly handle Trump and his army of shitheads. Take your time.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:10
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mastajake posted:Wait, really? All that's stopping it is precedence and ~~~decorum~~~? gently caress that. If he's breaking every norm that should have been a law in the first place, the oppositions should feel free to do the same. The opposition doesn't currently hold any political power. It's like people don't realize how dead the Democratic party is.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:11
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Dick Trauma posted:Keep in mind that at this point it's unclear if there's any part of the government that is ready to enforce consequences upon Trump and his legion if they are actually found guilty of anything. All of this investigating is a moot point if there are no consequences. He could be found guilty of murder and if no one will sentence him or take him to prison it's meaningless. Say nobody decides to act on it now, but the Democrats sweep in 2018. What's the chance they'd act on it, given the precedent it would set as well as the obvious 'coup' accusations if they went for Pence too? And if not then, if he loses in 2020, will he get pardoned by the next precedent? I mean, if Nixon could get pardoned...
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Jul 21, 2017 03:11
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Google Butt posted:oh boy here's the nothing matters brigade Intruders detected near bubble perimeter! Battlestations!
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Jul 21, 2017 03:12
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Google Butt posted:oh boy here's the nothing matters brigade He's not wrong.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:12
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Dick Trauma posted:Please feel free to explain your confidence in our government to properly handle Trump and his army of shitheads. The courts have slapped his rear end down time and time again you loving dingus.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:12
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The same day Trump learned that Mueller is going into his business financials and has access to his tax returns.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:14
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Won't Mueller have to report his findings to congress within 30 days of being fired?
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Jul 21, 2017 03:15
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https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/888219531667177472 https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/888220246473142272 Just the best people
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Jul 21, 2017 03:15
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Dick Trauma posted:This Mueller investigation will go nowhere because congress will refuse to act on anything it turns up. sean10mm posted:Trump cartoonishly telling congress to gently caress off if someone is in contempt of congress by abusing the pardon power might be the only real thing that could turn GOP legislators against him. He would be attacking their own powers directly.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:16
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farraday posted:https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/888219531667177472 I really wish I could appreciate the utter disdain Trump has for the Republican establishment/chain of command. But the cost is just too great.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:17
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Dick Trauma posted:Keep in mind that at this point it's unclear if there's any part of the government that is ready to enforce consequences upon Trump and his legion if they are actually found guilty of anything. All of this investigating is a moot point if there are no consequences. He could be found guilty of murder and if no one will sentence him or take him to prison it's meaningless. If the Feds decide not to prosecute, that's when state AGs start building their cases. NY has its own set of money laundering and political bribery laws and an ambitious AG.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:17
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fsif posted:It's insanely cool how obviously and clearly guilty Trump is but like 35% of the US population has effectively decided that we should let him go. At some point you have to not worry about the weird edges of polls. Like 16% of the us population has like sub 85 IQ, and some other percent is delusionally mentally ill, or literally on drugs, like there is 1% of americans that live so remote that they don't have indoor plumbing. Like any time you want something to climb up to 100% you have to confront that when you are talking about the entire population that there is a lot of sub populations with really unique situations that alter their worldview or ability to answer how you'd want them to. 7% of americans don't think the moon landing was real. You just simply don't hit 100% ever on anything. If you can only hit 93% belief in the most televised event in all of human history you don't hit 100% on anything.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:19
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If the name Anthony Scaramucci seems familiar to you it may be because he was the target of that CNN article they retracted connecting him to Russian investment. http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-cnn-resignation-20170626-story.html
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Jul 21, 2017 03:19
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mastajake posted:Wait, really? All that's stopping it is precedence and ~~~decorum~~~? gently caress that. If he's breaking every norm that should have been a law in the first place, the oppositions should feel free to do the same. clinton went to normal human trial for sexual harassment, grant got a normal speeding ticket. The limit is you can't sue a president for an act he does as president but the rest is just "it would be real dumb if we got way into prosecuting and constantly suing presidents" so we shuffle that stuff around and don't do it.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:21
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farraday posted:If the name Anthony Scaramucci seems familiar to you it may be because he was the target of that CNN article they retracted connecting him to Russian investment. So CNN can't report on him. It's like double jeopardy or something 
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Jul 21, 2017 03:23
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I am firmly on the Nothing Matter brigade train because I don't trust blue check Twitter people saying things like "Trump reportedly asking aides if treason is against the law"
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Jul 21, 2017 03:26
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:7% of americans don't think the moon landing was real. You just simply don't hit 100% ever on anything. If you can only hit 93% belief in the most televised event in all of human history you don't hit 100% on anything. A funny upside to this is when you do find situations that are 100%, like men who watch porn.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:26
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