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Sickening posted:One more in an never ending spew from people who shape WOTC as a company. The idea that more casual players don't want free 6-10 dollar cards they can play with will never not be dumb.
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Jul 20, 2017 22:20
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mcmagic posted:The idea that more casual players don't want free 6-10 dollar cards they can play with will never not be dumb. Where did they say that?
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Jul 20, 2017 22:24
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mcmagic posted:The idea that more casual players don't want free 6-10 dollar cards they can play with will never not be dumb. Promos being consistently good for FNM will mean casual players will leave! /ignores stores that give them out at random /ignores that more players = better fnm for everyone (stores included) /ignores feedback that has been given for almost 2 decades.
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Jul 20, 2017 22:24
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Yeah there's enough FNM promos that more than half the players get them, sometimes even all the players, at almost every shop I frequent.
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Jul 20, 2017 22:27
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Okay, let's try this again. To my understanding, the idea is that better promos draw more competetive players, and the influx of competetive players causes more casual players to leave, for what I hope are obvious reasons. WotC claims to have data showing this, and even more data showing that casual attendence is not predicated on promo value; however, because releasing proprietary data for no reason is stupid, they have not given direct numbers. Whether WotC is right to want more casual/less competetive players at fnm is a different discussion altogether. The idea is not that casual players are magnetically repulsed by promo versions of playable cards.
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Jul 20, 2017 22:34
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helene made a lot of the decisions people blame trick for lmao
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Jul 20, 2017 22:41
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GeneX posted:Okay, let's try this again. To my understanding, the idea is that better promos draw more competetive players, and the influx of competetive players causes more casual players to leave, for what I hope are obvious reasons. WotC claims to have data showing this, and even more data showing that casual attendence is not predicated on promo value; however, because releasing proprietary data for no reason is stupid, they have not given direct numbers. Fundamental to this idea is the premise that competitive players will be disincentivized to show up because of bad promos, while casual players will not. If currently active casual players leave at an equal rate as competitive players then the whole scheme falls apart. This premise is so hilariously wrong, it's pretty much the opposite of reality. The only people who don't give a toss about promos are really hardcore spikes.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:04
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I think more or less admitting that you don't want competitive players to show up at your weekly mtg event is pretty poo poo by itself.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:26
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Sickening or Angry Grimace, I forget which one of you (or maybe it was someone else) that was playing the Mardu Reanimator list we've talked about 3-4 weeks ago. I have been gone from FNM from the last 3 weeks and wanted to go tomorrow Question 1. Are you still playing this? Question 2. What HOD cards did you put in? Mine sharing a rough list if you still have it?
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Jul 20, 2017 23:40
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Caleb is doing a 24 hour stream in celebration of streaming 365 days straight somehow.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:46
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80s James Hetfield posted:Sickening or Angry Grimace, I forget which one of you (or maybe it was someone else) that was playing the Mardu Reanimator list we've talked about 3-4 weeks ago. I have been gone from FNM from the last 3 weeks and wanted to go tomorrow I'm not playing it anymore, primarily because I haven't played constructed in several months.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:51
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This whole FNM is for casuals is confusing to me. From everything I've seen they basically seem to say that only competitive players want these good promos. Which ignores the fact (as many people have stated) everyone wants playable $6-$10 cards to be given out at the events. If they're not going to actively use them they're going to trade them for other cards they will use or packs to fuel future drafts or what have you. I have never seen this weird world that WOTC is portraying that FNM is some sort of casual type event where competitive players ruin everyone else's day by showing up with GP / PT top 8 decks. Every constructed FNM at every store I've played at is at least 70% competitive decks, 20% being either complete budget decks or most of the way there competitive decks but some budget adjustments, and 10% brews (usually piloted by the same people that always are brewing). Most of the time if new people come in and get crushed I've seen the competitive players lay out the newer players deck and help them improve it after the round by suggesting card adjustments (to make post tournament) and in many instances pull cards out of their own binders and give them to the new player. And 90% of the time when new people come in they're playing whatever deck just won the PT or GP somehow, they're usually playing it poorly, too, and they lose. I don't think I've actually seen any non-WOTC employees actually saying this change is good outside of some random people that basically say "FOIL TOKENS?! SIGN ME UP!" but most of them are also following that up with "but actual cards are slick too, can't we have both?" Probably the real reasoning is they want people to show up for standard show down on Saturday so they're attempting to get the competitive people to go to that to get cool promos knowing that they'll probably still show up Friday.
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Jul 21, 2017 00:17
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Got my SDCC planeswalker set today
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Jul 21, 2017 00:45
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 The hole in their theory is that I play magic on Friday night, then go out after and am too hung over to play a showdown on Saturday.
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Jul 21, 2017 00:50
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Sickening posted:One more in an never ending spew from people who shape WOTC as a company. The really dumb thing about this whole thing is that even if casual players show up to replace the competitive ones, they spend much less money than competitive ones. This whole thing is like if a free to play mobile developer decided to nerf all the premium content in their game because "whales make the game unfun for casual players". Even if the idea of casuals not showing up to FNM because of competitive players is sound, you're replacing your customers that spend lots of money on the game with ones that don't.
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Jul 21, 2017 01:16
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Mezzanon posted:http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/organized-play/2018-grand-prix-details-2017-07-20 *Sits down next to WotC, represented as a small child, looks into it's naive eyes, hopeful for the future* "Kid I think it's time I told you something, something you should've been told a long time ago...no one likes sealed GPs."
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Jul 21, 2017 01:19
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ThePeavstenator posted:The really dumb thing about this whole thing is that even if casual players show up to replace the competitive ones, they spend much less money than competitive ones. And WotC doesn't see a penny of that money. Casuals are the ones who open a case of every new set just to see what they get and sell everything back to the store. Spikes buy the cards they need from that store.
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Jul 21, 2017 01:24
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suicidesteve posted:And WotC doesn't see a penny of that money. Maybe not directly but where do you think the singles that all the spikes buy come from?
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Jul 21, 2017 01:26
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ThePeavstenator posted:*Sits down next to WotC, represented as a small child, looks into it's naive eyes, hopeful for the future* I'll never judge a limited GP again. It's hours of additional work and floor time per day for the same pay.
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Jul 21, 2017 01:29
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suicidesteve posted:And WotC doesn't see a penny of that money. This simply isn't true no matter how many times you say it. As long as standard packs are given out as prizes for all events (fnm/port/whatever) even legacy sells packs. gently caress, even ptq's at gps give sealed product as prize support for the big gp's. Good sets sell standard product better than handwringing about formats.
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Jul 21, 2017 01:34
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Maro's statement is not that confusing if you look at the other changes they've made to supplemental product in the past few years. They've tried to explicitly stop putting obvious Legacy staples in Commander precons "because then competitive players buy up all of them, meaning there aren't enough in stock for the target audience." This means they've lowered the overall value of the decks, because the reason competitive players buy them isn't to get staples, it's because the staples are worth more than the msrp of the deck. Likewise, they put explicitly bad Planeswalker cards in the intro precons now, for the same reason. They wanted to print planeswalkers to feature for the precons, but realized if they put good cards in the precons competitive players will buy them and they want only casual players to buy those decks. And like a majority of beginner precons, the cards in those precons are always totally worthless and it's always a terrible financial decision to buy them if you care about the value of your cards. It's a clear statement of "we want casual players to get less value for their money, because when we give players a worthwhile cost to obtain product from us:cost of product on secondary market ratio, those products become inaccessible to casual players." Take from it what you will, but these changes are in line with what's been going on for a long time.
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Jul 21, 2017 01:37
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ThePeavstenator posted:The really dumb thing about this whole thing is that even if casual players show up to replace the competitive ones, they spend much less money than competitive ones. Competitive magic and lgs players may be a great advertisement for them, but they stay alive on kids buying the 0 ev 3 pack blisters from toys-r-us or Walmart or whatever
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Jul 21, 2017 01:43
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Allstone posted:They've been pretty consistent about saying that super casual players buying packs to mess around with at home make up the vast majority of magic's audience and income Sure but pound for pound your competitive FNM player is the one spending the most. If you take the casual player buying a few boosters here and there and replace the competitive player in the LGS with that same casual player buying boosters here and there, that's not an improvement on revenue. Also maybe WotC makes most of their money that way but LGSs definitely benefit from having competitive players buying and selling cards there.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:06
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ThePeavstenator posted:Sure but pound for pound your competitive FNM player is the one spending the most. If you take the casual player buying a few boosters here and there and replace the competitive player in the LGS with that same casual player buying boosters here and there, that's not an improvement on revenue. I will just say that from my time working with 10-13 year olds a few years back (who are all super casual) that the ones who were interested in magic spent a TON of money on cards, with almost all of it being booster packs or precon decks. Most of these kids don't go to FNM because they'd get absolutely annihilated by anybody with a half decent deck, hence it seeming like Wizards wanting to give them a shot at an event that might have lower power levels. If that is what they're doing. Who knows, their marketing/pr team is garbage.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:15
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If you're an enfranchised player wotc desperately wants your money but doesn't want you going to FNM.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:18
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I think the last time I bought sealed product was the first modern Masters, before that, time spiral block.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:22
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:I will just say that from my time working with 10-13 year olds a few years back (who are all super casual) that the ones who were interested in magic spent a TON of money on cards, with almost all of it being booster packs or precon decks. Most of these kids don't go to FNM because they'd get absolutely annihilated by anybody with a half decent deck, hence it seeming like Wizards wanting to give them a shot at an event that might have lower power levels. Sure but how many boosters had to be opened by CFB or SCG to fulfill all the pre-orders for mythic rares?
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Jul 21, 2017 02:22
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We've got banner art of the last two commanders in upcoming commander set.  Looks like Vampires and either Clerics or Wizards?
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Jul 21, 2017 03:14
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I have never been to a Friday Night Magic because I am not interested in losing every game to a competitive player. I get what they are trying to do and if they are successful and FNM moved to more of a casual thing I will be showing up.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:26
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bigperm posted:I have never been to a Friday Night Magic because I am not interested in losing every game to a competitive player. I get what they are trying to do and if they are successful and FNM moved to more of a casual thing I will be showing up. A company would go out of business trying to accommodate a customer this fragile.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:31
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quote:frosty-mage-stuff asked: Wait, were the Hascon promos revealed yet? That's neat. He said later that the promos were going to be silver-bordered, if there was any doubt. ZeroCount posted:We've got banner art of the last two commanders in upcoming commander set. Huh, so much for the Dragon deck Dragons spoiling the other tribes.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:32
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When is the Magic ComicCon panel?
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Jul 21, 2017 03:34
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bigperm posted:I have never been to a Friday Night Magic because I am not interested in losing every game to a competitive player. I get what they are trying to do and if they are successful and FNM moved to more of a casual thing I will be showing up. Uh oh, a 1v1 competitive game has people that play it better than you. Oh no.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:56
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PJOmega posted:Uh oh, a 1v1 competitive game has people that play it better than you. Oh no. It's not a competitive game for everyone. Having fun is more important than winning to me. I can't be alone in this. Maybe in this thread though apparently.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:04
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bigperm posted:It's not a competitive game for everyone. Having fun is more important than winning to me. I can't be alone in this. Maybe in this thread though apparently. I don't see how you can't have lose and still have fun. Unless fun = winning to you or a lot of people in your area play lantern
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Jul 21, 2017 04:08
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bigperm posted:It's not a competitive game for everyone. Having fun is more important than winning to me. I can't be alone in this. Maybe in this thread though apparently. What the? It's a game. At the end of the game there is a winner and there is a loser. If one player wins the other player loses. It is competitive in that way. It's a game with a relatively high skill ceiling, that costs a non-insignificant amount of money to play, and a reasonably long per game time. You can have fun through various methods. Winning is only a part of it. But if you're going to get upset and not play because others are trying to win in a casual tournament maybe stick to single player video games. Is this a gimmick account of a stupid millennial stereotype?
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Jul 21, 2017 04:09
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FNM is the only time I can conveniently play Modern so that's why I show up. Half the time I forget about the promo, if I was really interested I would bother showing up on the nights where FNM is Pauper and Commander as well.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:14
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bigperm posted:It's not a competitive game for everyone. Having fun is more important than winning to me. I can't be alone in this. Maybe in this thread though apparently. Then why does it matter if you show up and don't win, to the point where "not going to win" stops you from showing up at all?
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Jul 21, 2017 04:14
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Because casual. They make up 75% of the market though, and WoTC has never had any idea what to do with them.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:18
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Jabor posted:Then why does it matter if you show up and don't win, to the point where "not going to win" stops you from showing up at all? There are people who have shown up to my hometown LGS for a decade or more and always gone 0-3 or maybe a really good night of 1-2. I honestly believe they become worse each time they play somehow. But they love showing up. It boggles my mind as to how you can do something for ~3*52*10 hours and still be so astonishingly bad at it. But they seem to enjoy it. I'll admit playing against them R1 sets my teeth oh edge but they're always good sports and are always achingly thankful for any advice or good sportsmanship offered their way.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:23
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