Warhammer 40,000: 8th Time's the Charm

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Warhammer 40,000: 8th Time's the Charm

chutche2: Jul 3, 2010; CUPOLA MY BALLS

RagnarokAngel posted:

Do they though? I thought it was left open ended because it happens behind closed doors. Guilloman could absolutely be bullshitting because he knows the Imperium would collapse into civil war if they didnt have their faith in the God Emperor to give them a common cause.

That's what happened in the last gathering storm, the dark imperium stuff has expanded on it to them having an actual conversation. Emps is alive but completely without emotion or any shred of humanity.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 05:46

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 14, 2024 16:58

Safety Factor: Oct 31, 2009; Grimey Drawer

There's a scene told from Guilliman's perspective where he recalls his meeting with the Emperor. It's not really questionable at that point.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 05:46

RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

chutche2 posted:

That's what happened in the last gathering storm, the dark imperium stuff has expanded on it to them having an actual conversation. Emps is alive but completely without emotion or any shred of humanity.

Interesting. I need to pick that book up, honestly.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 05:47

chutche2: Jul 3, 2010; CUPOLA MY BALLS

So anyway my move to richmond VA is coming up in a few months, what game stores are in that area?

# ? Jul 21, 2017 05:48

Shadin: Jun 28, 2009

I know people are saying they don�t like the direction they�re taking the Emperor, with him being so cold and emotionless, but being an immobile corpse for 10,000 years and existing only in a constant state of battling interdimensional hellspace demons is bound to sap some humanity out of a person. I don�t think it cheapens the Heresy if the Emperor isn�t the same after ten millennia of an unliving torment.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 05:50

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Liquid Communism posted:

Let the primarchs carve out fiefdoms, humanity start actually exploring further out to escape the Rift (making room for new xenos), and create a new tension of the loyalist marines having to fight literally everyone without the support of Terra.

This is actually what the original plans for 50k were. I remember reading an interview with the old design team and they had outlined it as the imperium falling to chaos and the remains getting governed by space marine fiefdoms

# ? Jul 21, 2017 05:51

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

chutche2 posted:

So anyway my move to richmond VA is coming up in a few months, what game stores are in that area?

There's a horde of us around DC if you don't mind the drive. Richmond seems like an awesome town so I would expect there's a few gaming stores.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 05:53

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

To be exact it was less the Emperor talking to him. (As he can't move anything anymore.) as much as he exerted psychic pressure and feelings towards Guilliman.

This is more or less Guillimans final thoughts on the meeting from the book.

quote:

Guilliman thought back again to his meeting with his father. He did not like to revisit the memory; it was as if the memory forced itself on him rather than he actively sought to recall it. The thing in the cradle of the ancient machines, fed by loathsome technology. And then the golden light, and then the pain�
Guilliman�s lips pressed thin. The display had been a form of control. The pain had been a form of control. He was tired of being used.
�He is not a god,� he said.
�He is to me. He is to trillions. Why will you not accept the truth?�
�To me, He was a father.� A distant, uncaring, heartless, manipulative father, he thought. �And a lord. I have died for Him once, and would again. That does not give Him divinity.�
Coldness. That was the defining sensation of his meeting with the Emperor. Infinite, terrible coldness.
He had approached the meeting with dread, fearing what he would find. Would his father be dead? Would He be insane? Would they even be able to talk? When he had been admitted to the throne room and approached the Golden Throne, he had done so as he had approached his foster father Konor�s funeral, willing it all to be right, drowning in certain grief. Between the time of the Emperor�s ascension to the throne and Guilliman�s own death, the Emperor had spoken to no one. How could anything have persisted for ten thousand years, he had thought. There was the wizened corpse surrounded by banks of groaning machinery, His sword upon His knee. Sorrow suffused everything. The sacrifice required to keep the Emperor alive sickened the primarch. If He were alive. He appeared dead. Guilliman had expected nothing.
But He spoke.
With words of light and fire, the Emperor had conferred with His returned primarch, the last of His finest creations.
A creation. Not a son.
The living Emperor had been an artful being, as skilled at hiding His thoughts as He was at reading those of others. What remained of Him was powerful beyond comprehension, but it lacked the subtlety He had had whilst He walked among men. Speaking with the Emperor had been like conversing with a star. The Emperor�s words burned him.
What hurt most deeply was what went unsaid.
The Emperor greeted Guilliman not as a father receives a son, but as a craftsmen who rediscovers a favourite tool that he thought lost. He behaved like a prisoner locked in an iron cage who is passed a rasp.
Guilliman had no illusions. He was not the man who brought the rasp; he was the rasp.
While the Emperor had walked abroad, He had cloaked His manipulations in love. He had let His primarchs call Him father; He had let them call themselves His sons. He had rarely spoken those words Himself, Guilliman now realised, and when He had He had done so without sincerity. Buffeted by the full might of the Emperor�s will unclothed in flesh, a cloak had been ripped from Guilliman�s eyes.
The Emperor had allowed them to love Him, and to believe He loved them in return. He had not. His primarchs were weapons, that was all.
Though His power was immense, perhaps greater than it had been before He ascended, the Emperor�s humanity was all but gone. He could no longer mask His thoughts with a human face. The Emperor�s light was blinding, all encompassing, but finally�� finally�� Guilliman had seen it as a whole. The being he had thought of as a father could hide nothing from him.
The Emperor did not love His sons. They were things. Guilliman, all his brothers, were nothing but a means to an end.

And slightly earlier in the book. Upon going into a Cathedral.

quote:

Guilliman surveyed it all disapprovingly. Worship of his creator had become the bedrock of the Imperium. It was as pernicious as the efforts of Chaos, in its way. He did not understand it, but as he looked around this cathedral, one like many hundreds he had seen all across the Imperium, he doubted his own convictions regarding the Emperor�s divinity.
Theoretical, he thought. The Emperor is a god and denied His own divinity to protect humanity. Practical, He is a god.
Or, he continued to himself, Theoretical, the Emperor was not a god, but became one. Practical, He is a god.
He dismissed the idea angrily. These theoreticals had trooped through his thoughts so many times before he had grown weary of them, but his mind would not stop generating counter-arguments to his beliefs.
Theoretical, the Emperor was always a god, but was unaware of it. Practical, He is a god.
No, he thought.
Theoretical, the Emperor became a god to protect humanity. Practical, He is a god.
He is not a god, he thought.
Theoretical, Guilliman thought savagely now, turning his anger against his traitorous mind. The Emperor was never a god, denied He was a god and has been wrongly elevated by men who see power and mistake it for divinity. Practical, the Emperor is not a god.
�He is not a god,� said Guilliman out loud. He could not countenance the thought. A being that cold and callous was not worthy of worship.
Why, then, did the question dog him so?

# ? Jul 21, 2017 06:31

Booley: Apr 25, 2010; I CAN BARELY MAKE IT A WEEK WITHOUT ACTING LIKE AN ASSHOLE; Grimey Drawer

New Blood Angels from me. The tanks were my first try pre-shading, and when I was putting the basecoat on I was too cautious of not covering over the shading and missed some of the undersides. Not too bothered since you can't see it on the table.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 06:33

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004

MonsterEnvy posted:

To be exact it was less the Emperor talking to him. (As he can't move anything anymore.) as much as he exerted psychic pressure and feelings towards Guilliman.

This is more or less Guillimans final thoughts on the meeting from the book.

That really does lay it out in a way that fits what I'd like to see. The Emperor has become effectively a God... but one without any of those things Humanity should most strive for.

Given that description, I have no idea how the Imperial Faith actually works against Chaos, because Emps is nothing but a less obvious Chaos God of Pride.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 06:57

RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

Based on what we've seen of the Ecclesiarchy, theyre pretty loving bad at it.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 06:58

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

Here are the words of a fairly open minded Priest from the Ecclesiarchy. Which resulted in the first section I posted.

quote:

�If your father has the power of a god, does that not make Him one, whether He believed Himself to be so or not?� he said. �The Emperor protects us. It is evident in the actions of His holy saints, who are the will of the Emperor made manifest, and the Legion of the Damned, who appear at battle�s forlorn hope, and in the Emperor�s Tarot, whose readings guide ordinary men day to day.�

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Jul 21, 2017

# ? Jul 21, 2017 07:06

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004

That makes me snicker a little, since the Legion of the Damned are something the Inquisition would be stomping as hard as possible if they could get their hands on them.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 07:10

a cock shaped fruit: Aug 23, 2010; The true enemy of humanity is disorder.

I actually really liked the parts in gathering storm where the necron pylons shot their space lasers into the Eye of Terror, and the legion of the damned + celestine suddenly went down several power levels, like they were running low on batteries.

Spoke volumes regarding the ~*-MYSTERIOUS NATURE-*~ of their abilities.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 07:13

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

Might as well post Guilliman's final thoughts over all. Including the part where he feels he has to, and has become more like the Empeorer.

quote:

�It is done,� said the primarch. �Espandor is free of Mortarion�s witchcraft. Its cleansing may begin.�
Guilliman put up and sheathed the sword. The fires went out, plunging the cathedral back into darkness, but a certain sanctity remained. By the Emperor�s own blade, Guilliman had driven back the baleful influence of Chaos. He could not deny the effect. He could not have defeated an enemy like that without the weapon.
Godlike, he thought.
Mathieu sank to his knees. �Praise be!� he whispered. Tears ran down his face.
�You are still alive?� said Guilliman with mild surprise.
�The Emperor protects. The Emperor protects!� Mathieu said, partway into a religious fugue. �As you fought and others died, I was unharmed! Praise be, praise be! The Emperor has touched this place.�
Guilliman shrugged. Combat over, he was weary. The emptiness inside him seemed deeper for his encounter with the daemon. His hearts laboured, and his scar itched. �He remains potent, even now.�
�I can feel His love for humanity,� said Mathieu. �I can feel it all around me!� He hesitated in his rapture. �Tell me, oh lord regent, truthfully�� does the Emperor love us, my lord? Do not say I am wrong!�
The Emperor loves no one man, thought Guilliman. He cannot afford affection�� that is the honest practical for the impossible task that faces the Master of Mankind. He did not love His sons, He does not love men, but He does love mankind. I find it hard to forgive Him. Did His solution have to be built on lies? Lies upon lies?
Mathieu�s question pushed Guilliman deeper into melancholy. More than anything, he yearned to speak with his foster father Konor one more time. He had been a noble soul, one who could be trusted. A true father.
Had you not died before the Emperor arrived in Ultramar, would I have abandoned you as quickly as my brothers abandoned their adoptive families? he asked himself.
He knew the answer to that, and it shamed him. No one is immune to the effects of such power, he told himself, but that did not make the truth any more palatable.
He understood. He knew what his father wanted to achieve, and why. Facing things like Qaramar brought it home to him time and again. Knowing what opposed mankind made him see the utility of lies. Could Guilliman honestly say he loved all the men who called himself his sons? He barely knew them, especially now�� Cawl�s blasphemous hordes in particular. They, too, were a means to an end. He and his �father� had that in common. The mantle of rulership was weighty, and moulded the man that bore it.
I never wanted to be a tyrant, thought the primarch. Perhaps my father did not wish to be so either. History has roles for us that cannot be denied. We are but pieces on the board of eternity.
�My lord,� said Mathieu into the primarch�s silence. �Please tell me, does the Emperor love us?�
We are so much more like you than you ever intended, thought Guilliman. You gave too much of yourself to us. Without realising, in your arrogance, you made yourself a father in truth. We are your sons, in every way. Did you see that?
�My lord?� said Mathieu
�The Emperor loves us all,� lied Roboute Guilliman. He looked over the broken statue and the few remains of the clock. �Now leave me be, Mathieu. I must consult with the tribune and the tetrarch.�

# ? Jul 21, 2017 07:14

eSportseXpert: Jun 24, 2005; Stupid fucking white man.

I'd almost put down money on imperial civil war being on the cards. Making the Ministorum its own named faction is way too obvious.

e:and all the tech-heresy

eSportseXpert fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Jul 21, 2017

# ? Jul 21, 2017 08:04

Floppychop: Mar 30, 2012

I doubt they'll ever make a Imperium civil war official. There will probably be friction, but not more than that.

They'd be too worried about making people mad by making their armies not work anymore.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 08:29

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004

Floppychop posted:

I doubt they'll ever make a Imperium civil war official. There will probably be friction, but not more than that.

They'd be too worried about making people mad by making their armies not work anymore.

What do you mean 'not work'? As if the Traitor Legions have somehow stopped being able to fight despite 10k years without resupply?

It just makes it easier to fluff-justify every faction vs every faction.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 09:16

Floppychop: Mar 30, 2012

Liquid Communism posted:

What do you mean 'not work'? As if the Traitor Legions have somehow stopped being able to fight despite 10k years without resupply?

It just makes it easier to fluff-justify every faction vs every faction.

I mean stuff like special snowflake Munistorum mixed with Space Marines and Guard artillery armies, or whatever.

If the civil war were to be Ecclesiarchy vs Gulliman then I'm sure someone, somewhere has a SoB with Ultramarines army that would stop being a legal army (if the war were translated to the tabletop)

# ? Jul 21, 2017 10:03

adamantium|wang: Sep 14, 2003; Missing you

Even in death I still serve.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 10:08

Floppychop: Mar 30, 2012

That weathering is fantastic.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 10:23

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004

Floppychop posted:

I mean stuff like special snowflake Munistorum mixed with Space Marines and Guard artillery armies, or whatever.

If the civil war were to be Ecclesiarchy vs Gulliman then I'm sure someone, somewhere has a SoB with Ultramarines army that would stop being a legal army (if the war were translated to the tabletop)

Call me crazy, but I think the game would probably be quite fine without people cherrypicking from four factions to build Teh Bestest Armeh.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 11:07

Living Image: Apr 24, 2010; HORSE'S ASS

adamantium|wang posted:

Even in death I still serve.

NOICE

Floppychop posted:

I mean stuff like special snowflake Munistorum mixed with Space Marines and Guard artillery armies, or whatever.

If the civil war were to be Ecclesiarchy vs Gulliman then I'm sure someone, somewhere has a SoB with Ultramarines army that would stop being a legal army (if the war were translated to the tabletop)

If they have a brain they'll make sure to split all the different orgs down the middle so that you have Ad Mech, Ecclesiarchy etc. on either side rather than each organisation moving as a monolith.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 11:37

RagnarokAngel: Oct 5, 2006; Black Magic Extraordinaire

Yeah id see it as like a religious schism with some seeing Guilliman (and potentially his brothers)as prophets to bring the new word of the Emperor, while others feel they're decievers trying to lead the Imperium off its righteous path. These splits would be individual rather than "ok sisters of battle go here, adeptus mechanicus go here".

# ? Jul 21, 2017 11:48

Cainer: May 8, 2008

FiestaNinja posted:

I'd almost put down money on imperial civil war being on the cards. Making the Ministorum its own named faction is way too obvious.

e:and all the tech-heresy

I really hope tech-heresy translates into giant mechanical death spiders, that's some heresy I could 100% get behind. Dark Mechanicus would be such a fun faction, machines, chaotic flesh monsters, robo psykers, the list of cool poo poo just goes on and on.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 13:18

Living Image: Apr 24, 2010; HORSE'S ASS

Cainer posted:

I really hope tech-heresy translates into giant mechanical death spiders, that's some heresy I could 100% get behind. Dark Mechanicus would be such a fun faction, machines, chaotic flesh monsters, robo psykers, the list of cool poo poo just goes on and on.

I'm amazed that in GW's push for big hype model kits over the last ten years they've completely failed to take advantage of the potential of Dark Mechanicus and Lost and the Damned.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 13:30

Artum: Feb 13, 2012; DUN da dun dun da DUUUN; Soiled Meat

Corrode posted:

I'm amazed that in GW's push for big hype model kits over the last ten years they've completely failed to take advantage of the potential of Dark Mechanicus and Lost and the Damned.

The bulk of those ten years was spent lovingly ruining marines subfactions.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 13:36

Naramyth: Jan 22, 2009; Australia cares about cunts. Including this one.

a cock shaped fruit posted:

Ignore, completely wrong.

In other news, I like this:

I have three of them if you want to setup a buy/trade. :v:

# ? Jul 21, 2017 14:22

Zark the Damned: Mar 9, 2013

Chapter Focus for Fists and BTs is up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/21/chapter-focus-the-imperial-fists-crimson-fists-and-black-templars-july21gw-homepage-post-3/

Fists get an oddly specific warlord trait, and for the cost of a CP every BT has a psychic hood.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 14:29

a cock shaped fruit: Aug 23, 2010; The true enemy of humanity is disorder.

Naramyth posted:

I have three of them if you want to setup a buy/trade.

three of them what? converted walkie doovers?

# ? Jul 21, 2017 14:34

bonds0097: Oct 23, 2010; I would cry but I don't think I can spare the moisture.; Pillbug

As a CFer, I just want to have a Primaris HQ that can equip a Power Fist, or the fancy new relic they alluded to.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 14:36

Living Image: Apr 24, 2010; HORSE'S ASS

Zark the Damned posted:

Chapter Focus for Fists and BTs is up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/21/chapter-focus-the-imperial-fists-crimson-fists-and-black-templars-july21gw-homepage-post-3/

Fists get an oddly specific warlord trait, and for the cost of a CP every BT has a psychic hood.

Sons of Dorn!

The new stuff sounds a little gimmicky but interesting. I'm intrigued to see what Bolter Drill actually does - more than likely it's going to be 1 or 2 CPs to re-roll all bolter fire from a squad, which is possibly not that great.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 14:41

Naramyth: Jan 22, 2009; Australia cares about cunts. Including this one.

a cock shaped fruit posted:

three of them what? converted walkie doovers?

Yeah. I used them as admech riptides a few years ago when I had the idea of converting everything xeno into my all imperium all the time collection.

I now own a lot of xeno garbage (including four riptides :suicide:

) because converting everything would take too long with how fast I army hop so they don't see the table. So if someone wants them, I'm willing to sell.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 14:52

Indolent Bastard: Oct 26, 2007; I WON THIS AMAZING AVATAR! I'M A WINNER! WOOOOO!

I know nobody will care, but I'm saying it anyway.

40K is doing that thing it does that bores the life out of me. Exploring in excruciating depth the amazing "variety" of it's Space Marine chapters. I understand that SM are the most popular faction, but it gets dull hearing about how the Crimson Fists are different from the Ultra Marines are different from the Space Wolves are different from the Blood Angels are different from the Salamanders are different from the Imperial Fists, etc. etc, etc... Ugh. How about a little bit of the limelight for the "villians" of the piece?

I know the lesser armies will get some coverage eventually, but after the initial hype I'm left wanting for some details about anything but the power armor poster children.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 15:11

Lord_Hambrose: Nov 21, 2008; *a foul hooting fills the air*

Indolent Bastard posted:

I know nobody will care, but I'm saying it anyway.

40K is doing that thing it does that bores the life out of me. Exploring in excruciating depth the amazing "variety" of it's Space Marine chapters. I understand that SM are the most popular faction, but it gets dull hearing about how the Crimson Fists are different from the Ultra Marines are different from the Space Wolves are different from the Blood Angels are different from the Salamanders are different from the Imperial Fists, etc. etc, etc... Ugh. How about a little bit of the limelight for the "villians" of the piece?

I know the lesser armies will get some coverage eventually, but after the initial hype I'm left wanting for some details about anything but the power armor poster children.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 15:13

Soulfucker: Feb 15, 2012; i,m going to kill myself on friday #wow #whoa; Fun Shoe

Same, except chaos sucks and are boring too. :cool:

# ? Jul 21, 2017 15:14

MasterSlowPoke: Oct 9, 2005; Our courage will pull us through

The next release will probably be Chaos Space Marines, if that's more your style.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 15:14

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Zark the Damned posted:

Chapter Focus for Fists and BTs is up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/21/chapter-focus-the-imperial-fists-crimson-fists-and-black-templars-july21gw-homepage-post-3/

Fists get an oddly specific warlord trait, and for the cost of a CP every BT has a psychic hood.

BT seem really weak. Reroll charge is okay, but that strategem looks like it's 1CP per roll?

# ? Jul 21, 2017 15:31

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Indolent Bastard posted:

I know nobody will care, but I'm saying it anyway.

40K is doing that thing it does that bores the life out of me. Exploring in excruciating depth the amazing "variety" of it's Space Marine chapters. I understand that SM are the most popular faction, but it gets dull hearing about how the Crimson Fists are different from the Ultra Marines are different from the Space Wolves are different from the Blood Angels are different from the Salamanders are different from the Imperial Fists, etc. etc, etc... Ugh. How about a little bit of the limelight for the "villians" of the piece?

I know the lesser armies will get some coverage eventually, but after the initial hype I'm left wanting for some details about anything but the power armor poster children.

Well they're the most popular army by far, and the codex goes for preorder this weekend so it's expected.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 15:33

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 14, 2024 16:58

TheChirurgeon: Aug 7, 2002; Remember how good you are; Taco Defender

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Well they're the most popular army by far, and the codex goes for preorder this weekend so it's expected.

They make up more than 50% of armies. It'd be irresponsible to do another army's book before them, really.

I like the Imperial Fists' warlord trait. Seems really good with Aegis Defense lines, where you can guarantee having cover for your mans where you need it

# ? Jul 21, 2017 15:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Warhammer 40,000: 8th Time's the Charm

«‹›2194 »