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Not sure how to break it to a company that wants me back for a whiteboard but that I'm not interested in. Their tech seems typically early-startup bad, their product is something on the order of CRM-for-X, I'm not convinced they're actually all that profitable (they claim to be but I can't find information about them on Crunchbase), and the work to be done doesn't seem very good ("please fix our lovely code, we have to deliver faster"). How do I know that an early stage startup is one worth joining? So far I've been evaluating them based on news/hearsay and Crunchbase, but not all of them have such a presence.
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Jul 20, 2017 12:32
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a hot gujju bhabhi posted:Not that anyone cares, but I ended up not liking the counteroffer from my current employer and went with the original company. I start on Monday, pretty chuffed with my decision. Are you able to say more? You were going to your boss to say "make me manager and let me rearrange everything or I quit", right? Since you're leaving I guess they said no, but I'd be interested in hearing how much they were willing to change or just what sort of reception you got.
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Jul 20, 2017 12:35
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So i signed up for this Udacity programming course that cost $500 and my company reimbursed me for it. The course lasts over the next 4 months, but i'm definitely planning to find a new job by then (hopefully. Is it a dick move to quit while i'm still enrolled in a course i'm taking on my company's dime?
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Jul 20, 2017 13:34
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Parrotine posted:I feel like this is right on the money. I've got two years of contract work under my belt and about a year of full-time, but it doesn't matter cause it's not 2 years FT. Cracking that barrier is no joke, the struggle is real my friends Were you contracting full-time for two years? If you were, present that as two years of experience. If you were doing it part-time then present that as ~one year. Pollyanna posted:Not sure how to break it to a company that wants me back for a whiteboard but that I'm not interested in. "I'm looking for a more established company with more mentorship opportunities" or just "I'm not interested in pursuing this any further" but either way end it with thanking them for their time. You don't really owe them anything more and if they take the rejection personally that's them being inappropriate, not you being mean or whatever.
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Jul 20, 2017 13:38
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Pollyanna posted:Not sure how to break it to a company that wants me back for a whiteboard but that I'm not interested in. Their tech seems typically early-startup bad, their product is something on the order of CRM-for-X, I'm not convinced they're actually all that profitable (they claim to be but I can't find information about them on Crunchbase), and the work to be done doesn't seem very good ("please fix our lovely code, we have to deliver faster"). Or  .
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Jul 20, 2017 14:30
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Email them the lyrics to "Scrubs" by TLC.
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Jul 20, 2017 14:45
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huhu posted:Or Nah, ghosting's awful. It's one thing if you never respond to a recruiter's initial outreach but after you get this far in the process you should be at least a little courteous. You'll always feel like an rear end in a top hat, so there's no way to avoid that. Might as well be a polite rear end in a top hat. Munkeymon posted:"I'm looking for a more established company with more mentorship opportunities" or just "I'm not interested in pursuing this any further" but either way end it with thanking them for their time. You don't really owe them anything more and if they take the rejection personally that's them being inappropriate, not you being mean or whatever. The first one is true, but it may have been contradicted by me saying that I could deal without mentorship opportunities/other senior members to help me along (which is only okay in rare cases). I went with the generic "I enjoyed interviewing with you but I've decided to pass on the position, thank you so much for your time and good luck in finding a candidate" message. Doesn't make me feel better, but it just wasn't gonna work out.
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Jul 20, 2017 14:45
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B-Nasty posted:Now I'm tempted to offer $200 for something reasonably complex in a language I know super well to see what kind of cobbled-together patchwork of copy-pasted StackOverflow code and open source libraries I get back. I can chip in  Make them post it on github so we can all enjoy the shitshow...
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Jul 20, 2017 16:11
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Keetron posted:I can chip in My Amex has a "Spend $200 or more and get $100 back" offer on Upwork. I was going to use it to get a logo done for some freelance side work, but this has comedy value..... .so torn.
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Jul 20, 2017 18:01
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Grump posted:So i signed up for this Udacity programming course that cost $500 and my company reimbursed me for it.
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Jul 20, 2017 18:24
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Shout out to LaunchCode and their services. I just accepted a full time offer w/ the company I was placed at after ~4 month trial period. Quit my previous job about a year ago to change careers and feeling vindicated. Good luck job seekers
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Jul 20, 2017 18:49
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Launchcode was all ready to place me somewhere when I got a contract gig that paid me 3x as much as they were gonna. My experience with them up to that point was pretty good though.
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Jul 20, 2017 19:45
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ddiddles posted:Just had this test, went fine. The devs I was interviewing with were helpful with hints and remembering method names. So one company wants to me in for a final on site interview after four phone based screens and coding tests. They are paying for the flight, hotel, and car service to and from Aiport/Hotel/Interview. That's a good sign, right? First time a company has paid for me to interview with them directly, kind of a weird feeling. The second one said that a Skype/Hangouts situation would work just as fine as on onsite, so I don't have to worry about getting out there. This is the one that wants me to create the GitHub API SPA, hoping to impress them with what I submit before the interview. I'll keep you guys updated, because I know you're all on the edge of your seat.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:54
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ddiddles posted:So one company wants to me in for a final on site interview after four phone based screens and coding tests. They are paying for the flight, hotel, and car service to and from Aiport/Hotel/Interview. That's a good sign, right? First time a company has paid for me to interview with them directly, kind of a weird feeling. It's a good sign that they want you to interview in person, yes. Covering your costs is pretty typical if a flight's involved. Unless the position is completely remote, I'd balk at someone claiming a video call is as good as an onsite. I couldn't see myself saying yes to a job offer without having seen the office in which I'd be working in person.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:59
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Had an interview today at a school. I was pretty nervous but I think overall it went pretty well. I heard a lot of positive feedback with my answers. And I actually had some real life experiences to relate back with one of the questions I was asked. Next week I have an interview at a Catholic high school. It's in a city I don't know much about that is actually quite a bit larger in population than I initially thought. 90k people. I have to not get my hopes up too high for the place I interviewed at today, though.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:45
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huhu posted:600 applications over 1.5 years. Yikes, as someone who's about to finish a bootcamp in the next few weeks, these tales are a little discouraging. Any encouraging words of advice you guys could give about things you wish you knew at the start? I'm willing to move to more or less any major city, so hopefully that can help make the journey a little easier.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:50
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Iron Yard is closing all campuses Does anyone actually know why? It seemed legit and had lots of exposure (I know of iron yard grads working as developers)
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Jul 21, 2017 00:09
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The Dark Wind posted:Yikes, as someone who's about to finish a bootcamp in the next few weeks, these tales are a little discouraging. Any encouraging words of advice you guys could give about things you wish you knew at the start? I went from mechanical engineering undergrad with almost a year and a half ft internships to the Peace Corps doing civil engineering. I came back hating civil and not being competitive for mechanical engineering since I'd lived in the jungle for two years. In my free time from six months before the end of Peace Corps up until I landed a job (two years) spent A LOT of time learning web development and realized at one point it would be easier to job search as a web dev. So in some regards, replace two years of self teaching with your boot camp. Be very aware of all the things you do bad in interviews. A lot of my suggestions are from a few posts prior. Every positing you see, every interview you have, see what you don't know and then learn it. But be aware. For example, If you don't know Angular you don't necessarily need to learn it. However, if you're going in to Web Dev and don't know what the DOM is, that's an issue. Focus on the largest gaps in your knowledge. Mine included SQL, Jira, using GIT on a team. Focus on all aspects of interviewing. Focus on soft skills, keeping your enthusiasm for a long search, technical questions, knowing the company, knowing a bit about the person, etc. I definitely slipped for awhile with the soft skills questions - where do you see yourself in 5 years, etc. That's a bit of rambling, if you have more questions let me know.
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Jul 21, 2017 01:42
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:Iron Yard is closing all campuses That's the second large dev bootcamp to close this week. I know Iron Yard's labor costs were super high (gotta pay higher than a dev salary to get a dev to teach instead of code), I wonder if they weren't able to make the financials work. I also wonder (and this part is pure conjecture) if we hit peak bootcamp already, and all the people who are willing to pay $10k have done so. Another possibly theory is that since there's so many more entry level devs due to the proliferation of bootcamps that it's becoming harder to place them, and I know some of the bootcamps have a money back guarantee that could definitely gently caress them. Hopefully someone from Iron Yard writes a blog post about it, cause now I'm super curious.
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Jul 21, 2017 01:53
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Boot camps are a symptom of an ultimately unstable tech bubble, so seeing them start closing shop should be our first hint that the bubble's starting to pop.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:08
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huhu posted:I had a bit of a weird start... Thanks for this. I've been lurking these threads for a few months now, there's a serious goldmine of great advice here, so I really appreciate you and everyone else that posts helpful information on here. I'll definitely be coming back here with a few questions once final projects start and wrap up. Regarding bootcamps closing up and money guarantees, the school I'm going to now offers a money back guarantee if you can't find a position within 6 months. When I was first shopping around I asked them if they had ever had to issue a refund and they told me no. I know that Flat Iron School does a similar thing, and they have a fully audited report on their site that goes into detail about their results/starting salaries/etc. Might be worth a look at for the curious who want to do some number crunching.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:09
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ddiddles posted:So one company wants to me in for a final on site interview after four phone based screens and coding tests. They are paying for the flight, hotel, and car service to and from Aiport/Hotel/Interview. That's a good sign, right? First time a company has paid for me to interview with them directly, kind of a weird feeling. Getting an on-site interview is always good. It's an investment from the company (even if they're not flying you out, they're burning about a day of developer time), so it's good to see that they're willing to invest and it's good because it means they're more likely to hire you rather than throw that investment away. Again, I would not associate with a company that didn't pay the travel costs for candidates -- that's like MLM poo poo. Doing an all-Skype interview seems find to me (though if the whole office is actually centaurs, you are hosed).
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Jul 21, 2017 02:59
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The Dark Wind posted:Yikes, as someone who's about to finish a bootcamp in the next few weeks, these tales are a little discouraging. Any encouraging words of advice you guys could give about things you wish you knew at the start? I went to a boot camp. I had zero college, I did not even go to high school. I also looked for a job in Los Angeles, which is a heavy skew towards senior devs. My job experience consisted of lumberjack, delivery, firefighter, bartender, etc. It took me many hundreds of apps, but I got a job within six months of leaving my boot camp. It was not easy, it was very stressful, and the best advice I can give is to not give in to the stress and take a job you know you'll hate because nothing else has come along. There's taking a bad first job for experience, and there's taking a poo poo job out if desperation. The company who hired me called me in because of my portfolio, and said they had interviewed many boot camp grads who turned out to know nothing, so definitely don't assume you're done learning. Keep practicing, keep building stuff. Edit: bartender was actually very useful background. It turns out devs have a hard time communicating, which is a valuable skill bartending teaches. Practice that however it's convenient Vincent Valentine fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 03:10
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The Dark Wind posted:Regarding bootcamps closing up and money guarantees, the school I'm going to now offers a money back guarantee if you can't find a position within 6 months. When I was first shopping around I asked them if they had ever had to issue a refund and they told me no. Wow that's pretty interesting. What's keeping me from just intentionally not applying and collecting a refund?
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Jul 21, 2017 03:25
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Grump posted:Wow that's pretty interesting. What's keeping me from just intentionally not applying and collecting a refund? Mine required weekly job search updates to qualify for the refund, with a minimum of three applications shown per week. You could fake the process, but for the same amount of effort, you could just legitimately find a job.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:34
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Vincent Valentine posted:The company who hired me called me in because of my portfolio, and said they had interviewed many boot camp grads who turned out to know nothing, so definitely don't assume you're done learning. Keep practicing, keep building stuff. Definitely. One of the things I really love about this field is how much interesting stuff there is to learn. I'm almost done with my bootcamp but I feel like I'm at the very very beginning of my growth as a developer, honestly. I started out with going through Harvard's CS50, which I think provided a fantastic foundation, and I ended up going with this school because their curriculum seemed much more rigorous than others. They had us building large chunks of frameworks (like Express for example) commonly so that we understand how it's working and don't just rely on the magic. Still though, I already have a mile long list of things I want to study up on once I'm in the middle of job hunting and want to take a break from applications/algorithms prep, like TypeScript and in-depth Webpack, and some "devops" stuff like Docker and AWS, for starters. In regards to the guarantee, Flat Iron has a pretty thorough document available publicly that gives an example of what kind of things to expect: http://go.flatironschool.com/career-services-commitment My bootcamp does something similar, but they don't have it all formally typed out.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:41
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Vincent Valentine posted:Edit: bartender was actually very useful background. It turns out devs have a hard time communicating, which is a valuable skill bartending teaches. Practice that however it's convenient Very much this. Now don't go and be a bartender if that isn't what you want but do go and realize that social skills can be practised and improved.
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Jul 21, 2017 07:32
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Vincent Valentine posted:Edit: bartender was actually very useful background. It turns out devs have a hard time communicating, which is a valuable skill bartending teaches. Practice that however it's convenient I think that someone who's managed a 7-11 and has literally any demonstrable coding knowledge could get a job as a project manager.
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Jul 21, 2017 07:59
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fantastic in plastic posted:I think that someone who's managed a 7-11 and has literally any demonstrable coding knowledge could get a job as a project manager.  . I just bullshitted my way into being a QA (internal transfer from Support) and I would like to learn more about development / coding; that happening caused me to start reading this thread and now I'm so glad I did.
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Jul 21, 2017 13:13
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Yeah i'd saying working in restauraunts definitely helped with tech support. That being said i can't wait to find a new job where i'm doing more developing and talking to clients less
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Jul 21, 2017 13:29
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Everything I need to know about customers I learned by working the morning shift at Dunkin Donuts. No I don't know what your regular is it's my first day if you stop yelling and tell me what you want I can help you.
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Jul 21, 2017 14:48
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lifg posted:It's better to compare programming to doctors and lawyers than to plumbers. We don't have the credentialing requirements that doctors and lawyers have, but we do have a far less job security. Programmers run a huge risk of being left jobless if they aren't continually improving themselves. I dunno, working at one of the big tech companies gives me the impression that being a 9-5er or even a 9-4er is fine thing to do on some teams. E: okay, 9-4 is sort of an exaggeration but working 9-5 with a a 1-hour lunch for an effective working time of seven hours per day is pretty common in my experience.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:45
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oliveoil posted:I dunno, working at one of the big tech companies gives me the impression that being a 9-5er or even a 9-4er is fine thing to do on some teams. I am always the first one there at 10:30am and the last one to leave just a smidge after 4.
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Jul 21, 2017 16:02
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Cheston posted:I am always the first one there at 10:30am and the last one to leave just a smidge after 4.
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Jul 21, 2017 16:07
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oliveoil posted:I dunno, working at one of the big tech companies gives me the impression that being a 9-5er or even a 9-4er is fine thing to do on some teams. It's fine if you're learning new technologies as part of your regular job, or if the company gives you two weeks every four months to "explore new things" and you use that time well. Otherwise I'd be worried that your resume is atrophying. I don't know what the future equivalent of "that COBOL guy" is, but I'd imagine it's a recently fired guy in 2030 who spent the last twenty years maintaining an Angular app.
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Jul 21, 2017 17:20
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I like to be early so I can dodge traffic and I am usually alone in the office from 7:00-7:30 till 9:15ish, and no one bats an eye when I leave at 3:00 (again to dodge traffic) and I even pop back on when I get home to check to see if there is anything I need to follow up on and people tell me that its not necessary. Our PO comes in at 9:00 and leaves at 4:00 most days. One of our developers doesnt com in until 10:00 or 10:30 and no one cares. I guess I'm just lucky that no one gives a hoot. Doing this has resulted in nothing but resentment in each job I've had - not just me in particular, but for all devs. Is this really as acceptable as it sounds? I've only ever seen people reprimanded somehow for non-9-to-5 schedules ("you aren't there during my morning meetings", "the junior dev was looking for you and you were with your kids", etc.).
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Jul 21, 2017 17:20
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Pollyanna posted:Doing this has resulted in nothing but resentment in each job I've had - not just me in particular, but for all devs. Is this really as acceptable as it sounds? I've only ever seen people reprimanded somehow for non-9-to-5 schedules ("you aren't there during my morning meetings", "the junior dev was looking for you and you were with your kids", etc.).
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Jul 21, 2017 17:25
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I get to work at around 12:30pm and leave just, whenever(usually 6-7). That poo poo is thoroughly good. I'm sometimes on at home before and/or after, but it's a tiny price to pay to not sit on the 405 in Los Angeles. If you're not familiar, the 25 miles I drive would take two hours to get to my job by 9am. There's one guy who does the opposite, he's usually in around 6am and I usually catch him leaving as I'm arriving. That's the one thing that still really gets me about how much better this industry is over everything else I've done. I've never had another job where showing up more than thirty minutes late without a drat good excuse would have ended in anything other than firing. Here, and with all but one of my friends at other companies I've asked just to make sure it's not just mine, the policy is "yeah, just show up whenever, man. Or don't, nobody cares. Just make sure you show up to make meetings and often enough so that people don't think you're on vacation."
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Jul 21, 2017 17:31
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Vincent Valentine posted:I get to work at around 12:30pm and leave just, whenever(usually 6-7). That poo poo is thoroughly good. I'm sometimes on at home before and/or after, but it's a tiny price to pay to not sit on the 405 in Los Angeles. If you're not familiar, the 25 miles I drive would take two hours to get to my job by 9am. There's one guy who does the opposite, he's usually in around 6am and I usually catch him leaving as I'm arriving.
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Jul 21, 2017 17:38
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That was actually kind of jarring to me about working as a Dev. I thought I'd have to be strictly 8-5, but now I work something like 7-3:30, because I know I'm most efficient in the mornings, while I have co-workers working 9-whatever. It's super nice, and as long as you code and make progress, it's all good. Heck on Fridays I've seen people leave a couple hours early and no one has made even a tiny bit of a fuss.
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