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I just finished Bill The Vampire, based on a recommendation in this thread, I think. It was Not Good. It tries too hard to be funny, and falls flat. I don't care for how the main character is written. I wouldn't recommend it and I won't be reading any farther in to the series. Having said that, I finished it, because despite itself, the story isn't half bad, and I wanted to see where it ended up.
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Jul 20, 2017 05:40
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I've finished Hanging Tree. It was pretty good.
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Jul 20, 2017 17:22
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MalleusDei posted:I just finished Bill The Vampire, based on a recommendation in this thread, I think. It was Not Good. It tries too hard to be funny, and falls flat. I don't care for how the main character is written. I wouldn't recommend it and I won't be reading any farther in to the series. Having said that, I finished it, because despite itself, the story isn't half bad, and I wanted to see where it ended up. God, no one could possibly recommend that, could they. I felt exactly as you did.
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Jul 21, 2017 01:17
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I've been listening through the audio books again on my drives and James Marsters is really the best possible Narrator. I think it's around book four or five you can really hear a shift as he starts getting into it. And I forgot how much happens in Dead Beat. Halfway through Proven Guilty now.
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Jul 21, 2017 01:43
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I'm about halfway through the first audiobook of The Hellequin Chronicles. The story and setting are interesting but the dialog and the main character's narration is a little bit painful to listen to; It just seems to be trying too hard to be cool (and I'm already sick of hearing variations on 'the glyphs on my arms flared with light'). The problem might also be that the narrator (James Langton) sounds like he's trying to emulate Paul McGann's cadence but forgetting to vary his tone. Does anyone know if the writing changes/improves in subsequent books?
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Jul 21, 2017 14:30
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cell posted:I'm about halfway through the first audiobook of The Hellequin Chronicles. The story and setting are interesting but the dialog and the main character's narration is a little bit painful to listen to; It just seems to be trying too hard to be cool (and I'm already sick of hearing variations on 'the glyphs on my arms flared with light'). The problem might also be that the narrator (James Langton) sounds like he's trying to emulate Paul McGann's cadence but forgetting to vary his tone. Does anyone know if the writing changes/improves in subsequent books? I gave up on them a few books in. They have a bit too much deus ex machina.
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Jul 21, 2017 14:43
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What were the main comments on Hanging Tree, btw? I remember folks in this thread noted that it ended abruptly but I didn't think that was an issue, certainly not to the extent it was in Foxglove Summer, which felt like it was missing a chapter near the end! It probably isn't coincidence that the weakest Rivers of London book is the one that takes Peter away from London. A to the same time, it would be interesting to see him visit another city. It'd be fun to see Peter investigating something in York or Glasgow or Cardiff or Belfast. Those places must surely have supernatural crime but the Met is the only police fire in the country that seems even marginally equipped for them.
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Jul 21, 2017 14:43
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Wheat Loaf posted:What were the main comments on Hanging Tree, btw? I remember folks in this thread noted that it ended abruptly but I didn't think that was an issue, certainly not to the extent it was in Foxglove Summer, which felt like it was missing a chapter near the end! I think the general response was "we liked it, good show." I think most of the problems with RoL stem from Aaronovitch not originally intending it to be such a long series, so he has to keep padding and stretching.
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Jul 21, 2017 14:48
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Wheat Loaf posted:Those places must surely have supernatural crime but the Met is the only police fire in the country that seems even marginally equipped for them. British police forces tend to have specialities which don't overlap (so for instance the City of London police specialise in copyright issues) so that part is completely believable.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:04
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I finished the library at mount char and I thought it was real good, for the most part. I'm not sold on the ease she forgave systemic child torture and the complete 180 flip at the end, nor was I satisfied with the "kids needed to HTFU cuz it's a dark world out there" explanation given, to put it mildly. I'm not sure I really want to unpack the ending's message of "You have to be sociopathic to rule, but uh, not too sociopathic" especially because he realized what a mistake it was, losing touch, and he wanted it to be better for carolyn so his solution was not to maybe stop torturing kids but to instead find someone who could hold up to the abuse and remain human? 
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Jul 21, 2017 15:39
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think the general response was "we liked it, good show." Most of the negative comments I saw centered around wanting something more out of the reveal of the Faceless Man's identity, and the subsequent confrontation. And I can certainly sympathize, but it didn't really bother me, because I thought the way it played out worked pretty well. I honestly wish he'd drop any pretense of an overarching plot and just get on with writing magic police procedurals, but that's not the world we live in, I guess. It's still probably my favorite UF series at the moment.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:56
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Proteus Jones posted:I can get behind that, especially if you're not a usual fan of Lovecraft Mythos stuff which is *all* about the madness and despair with no salvation. I remember when I was reading the Fuller Memorandum, I thought to myself, "hmm, it seems like poo poo is starting to hit the fan". And then I read Apocalypse Codex, and I thought, "Hmm, poo poo is really starting to hit the fan". And then last night I finished the Rhesus Chart and thought "Man, things are really starting to get hosed up now". And now I'm about fifteen percent into Annihilation Score, and 
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Jul 21, 2017 16:35
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I get the complaints about the identity of the Faceless Man, but since it's a prelude to Lesley becoming the main antagonist, I'm okay with it.
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Jul 21, 2017 16:43
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I hope the next book has us reading about Peter being pissed that the Faceless Man's car that Nightingale gave to him was totaled by a drunk that hit it while it was parked because he deserves to always be stuck driving Asbos that smell like fruit.
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Jul 21, 2017 16:51
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I'm a bit behind the thread, since I've just started reading the new Faust and want to wait until I'm done with it to catch up, but I just finished my first read-through of Boneshaker at the urging of this thread, and wanted to give my feelings on it: It was a great steampunk novel. The focus on a lower-class person with real problems and dealing with poverty is an uncommon thing. As was mentioned by someone else in here, a lot of modern steampunk just focuses on the posh elites flying around in their airships and ignores the class struggle that defined the target culture and time period of the Victorian and surrounding eras. My only regrets are that it ended too soon, and that Dr. Minnericht, who was built up amazingly well to be a great villain, only got about 25 pages of screen time. He should have gotten more. If you're into that kind of thing, check it out.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:28
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Blasphemeral posted:I'm a bit behind the thread, since I've just started reading the new Faust and want to wait until I'm done with it to catch up, but I just finished my first read-through of Boneshaker at the urging of this thread, and wanted to give my feelings on it: As an FYI, Priest wrote six more books in that setting.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:34
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docbeard posted:Most of the negative comments I saw centered around wanting something more out of the reveal of the Faceless Man's identity, and the subsequent confrontation. And I can certainly sympathize, but it didn't really bother me, because I thought the way it played out worked pretty well. Honestly, I didn't have any problem with the reveal. I think Peter and Nightingale lucking into him in the course of a (for them) normal investigation is fair enough rather than him being some grandmaster lurking in their midst from the start; he doesn't have to be, because he's been active since before even Nightingale had a clue he existed. I also like that as powerful as he is, the best he can do when he actually confronts Nightingale is escape, because despite his raw talent he can't match Nightingale for skill. Another observation, relating to a criticism I seem to recall regarding Lesley, namely that her magic is a result of her being possessed by Mr Punch: while I'll be disappointed if that does turn out to be the case in the long run, that's not what I took away from that bit; Mr Punch left something behind after he possessed Lesley but magic was all down to her own determination. And finally, I very much hope that the throwaway line about Molly sneaking into Peter's tech cave to secretly swap recipes on Twitter is the solution to him installing a keystroke tracker after he catches her using his computer, because I think that would be funny if that's the payoff to what was seemingly being set up as a Mysterious Dark Secret.  I think if Peter and Nightingale ever leave London again, they should go to Belfast, because I like to imagine you could have Lagan as Beverley's embarrassing hillbilly cousin in much the same way as Northern Ireland is the embarrassing hillbilly cousin to both Britain and Ireland.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:06
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Having just finished book six of Alex Verus, I really like both the evolution of Verus and his reputation, and how it becomes increasingly apparent that Verus has a very skewed perception of the world. It also makes me wonder how many people Dresden would have iced if the First Law wasn't a thing. Sometimes when I read Dresden I kind of wonder if that law is there specifically to solve the question of "Why doesn't Harry ( or someone else ) just blast a flaming hole in this guy?" Then again, Harry tries more than a few times.
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Jul 21, 2017 21:37
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Harry has a pretty huge body count even with the laws of magic, it just involves a ton of rules lawyer around the Laws of Magic. Which to be fair seems to be what they were created for. They have a purpose but the purpose is intentionally vague enough to allow people to get away with stupid bullshit if the Council wants it.
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Jul 21, 2017 21:42
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If I recall correctly, the first law only applies to mortals, so turbo murdering other supernaturals is fine if you have a valid reason(unless you drag the Council into a hell war, of course).
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Jul 21, 2017 21:46
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Angry Lobster posted:If I recall correctly, the first law only applies to mortals, so turbo murdering other supernaturals is fine if you have a valid reason(unless you drag the Council into a hell war, of course). All the laws only really apply to mortals and only in specific circumstances. It's totally okay to kill a mortal with an enchanted sword or to shoot them in the head after badly injuring them with magic but not to kill them directly with magic. It's seemingly even okay to fatally wound someone with magic and then finish them off another way. There's lots and lots of grey areas which exist only so the Council can have them. (Even ignoring the Blackstaff existing.)
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Jul 21, 2017 21:54
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ImpAtom posted:All the laws only really apply to mortals and only in specific circumstances. It's totally okay to kill a mortal with an enchanted sword or to shoot them in the head after badly injuring them with magic but not to kill them directly with magic. It's seemingly even okay to fatally wound someone with magic and then finish them off another way. There's lots and lots of grey areas which exist only so the Council can have them. (Even ignoring the Blackstaff existing.) To be fair, it's suggested a few times that outright killing someone directly with magic has magical repercussions on the one responsible. That's why the rules in question are important - to fight without the feedback that would come from outright killing.
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Jul 21, 2017 22:08
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Cythereal posted:To be fair, it's suggested a few times that outright killing someone directly with magic has magical repercussions on the one responsible. That's why the rules in question are important - to fight without the feedback that would come from outright killing. Thought that was only black magic? I can't recall any specific instance of them saying that using magic to do that would be for sure bad. Completely unrelated, but how likely is it that Justin is alive? I'm thinking it is kind of likely at this point and that he's the one who screwed over Arch Angel.
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Jul 21, 2017 22:56
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Completely unrelated, but how likely is it that Justin is alive? I'm thinking it is kind of likely at this point and that he's the one who screwed over Arch Angel. Zero. Butcher has said in interviews that Justin is completely and utterly dead and not coming back.
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Jul 21, 2017 22:58
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Cythereal posted:Zero. Butcher has said in interviews that Justin is completely and utterly dead and not coming back. If it ain't in the books, it ain't real.
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Jul 21, 2017 23:02
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Thought that was only black magic? I can't recall any specific instance of them saying that using magic to do that would be for sure bad. It's definitely spelled out. Harry mentions it a few times in the early books. The logic is basically: You have to believe in something to do it with magic. So if you kill with magic. you must believe you have the right to take life (which isn't quite the same as killing in self defense). This reinforces the idea in your mind, I guess. Also, I don't think Dresden files gives a specific definition for black magic. It's just magic that's bad. I guess it's mostly just magic outlawed by the laws.
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Jul 22, 2017 00:06
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Yeah, magic in Dresden is personality-recursive. You have to believe in something to do it with magic, and performing magic causes your personality to change further in that direction, until you go too far and you're a raging murderbot or what have you.
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Jul 22, 2017 00:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, magic in Dresden is personality-recursive. You have to believe in something to do it with magic, and performing magic causes your personality to change further in that direction, until you go too far and you're a raging murderbot or what have you. The way that was handled in Dresden seemed to factor in personal motivation and beliefs a whole lot. If someone like Ivy used magic to drop forty people dead because it was the most logical way for her to survive a scenario, I doubt it would do anything to her. If Merlin got cut off in traffic and shrank someone's car without shrinking the person inside because he's a pissy old man, then yeah. I think mind magic is the only thing that will for sure mess you up.
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Jul 22, 2017 01:31
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:I think mind magic is the only thing that will for sure mess you up. One of the reasons that the council is so worried about Dresden is that he immolated a highly capable warden, directly, with magic. He didn't Molotov the house, he didn't use a gun or a knife. Harry, with all of his power unbound by logic or morals, desired to burn Justin alive with will alone and succeeded. That's some heavy black magic. Burning the witch at the stake with your mind alone like you're Carrie. As the Merlin points out at the start of Proven Guilty using magic like that corrupts your soul. As a kid Harry had to believe the laws of physics were ok with him melting the fat off a fellow person.
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Jul 22, 2017 17:56
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M_Gargantua posted:One of the reasons that the council is so worried about Dresden is that he immolated a highly capable warden, directly, with magic. He didn't Molotov the house, he didn't use a gun or a knife. Harry was a scared kid fighting for his life against a man who turned his girlfriend into a mindless puppet and was trying to kill him. He and the Council generally are more or less okay with using magic to kill in self-defense against someone trying to kill you.
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Jul 22, 2017 21:41
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Cythereal posted:Harry was a scared kid fighting for his life against a man who turned his girlfriend into a mindless puppet and was trying to kill him. He and the Council generally are more or less okay with using magic to kill in self-defense against someone trying to kill you. The council was gonna behead him anyway until McCoy stood up for him, and he was on the one-strike-and-you're-dead probation too.
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Jul 22, 2017 21:54
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M_Gargantua posted:One of the reasons that the council is so worried about Dresden is that he immolated a highly capable warden, directly, with magic. He didn't Molotov the house, he didn't use a gun or a knife. Eeeeeeh. From the way Dresden talked about the encounter with Murphy in Summer Knight, and a few other places, I don't really think he remembers much of anything. He says, "They burned." I'm not even completely convinced he was the one that actually killed Justin, because there are a whole lot of unanswered questions hanging around the encounter. If the act of using magic to kill corrupted you, regardless of motivation or whatever, why didn't Harry get a big ol' dose when he  'd Bianca's party? What about during Changes? With all the magic he was flinging around, he probably pasted at least one person. If he didn't, the rest of the mages that came with the Blackstaff almost certainly merc'd some dudes. Pretty sure he magics one of the Wild Hunt's vanilla mortals into the dirt during Cold Days, too.Maybe the Council isn't telling the whole truth ( again ), because you see people using questionable magic without turning into Kravos, Harry included. It is more likely they reacted as badly as they did because of his mother, and because of all the unknowns.
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Jul 22, 2017 21:59
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Maybe the Council isn't telling the whole truth ( again ), because you see people using questionable magic without turning into Kravos, Harry included. It is more likely they reacted as badly as they did because of his mother, and because of all the unknowns. Well...except there are much less ambiguous examples of breaking the laws causing personality creep; see Proven Guilty, as well as Ghost Story.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:05
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And let's face it, Dresden has, in fact, creeped.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:09
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I feel like The Wizards of The White Council should probably be read the same way as The Faeries of The Winter Court, but it's just a hunch. The Laws of Magic per The White Council in that sense might be seen as a younger version of Faerie Law. IDK if I'm entirely sold on the idea that The White Council is trying to become a Court of Wizards but it's at least interesting to think about.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:09
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Aerdan posted:Well...except there are much less ambiguous examples of breaking the laws causing personality creep; see Proven Guilty, as well as Ghost Story. Yeah. That's why I'm saying it isn't really black and white. Butcher goes through a lot of trouble to set things up, so it would strike me as odd if there weren't inconsistencies for a reason. Hieronymous Alloy posted:And let's face it, Dresden has, in fact, creeped. Hard to lay that at the feet of the magic itself though, given Harry's experiences, and the fact that he's always been OK with using violence. If you went back in time and gave Harry in book 3 the power of Harry from book 15, his body count would explode. And so would everything else.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:39
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How are the Rivers of London comics? I enjoy DC Guleed and understand she's a big character in the comics.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:53
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Anias posted:I feel like The Wizards of The White Council should probably be read the same way as The Faeries of The Winter Court, but it's just a hunch. The Laws of Magic per The White Council in that sense might be seen as a younger version of Faerie Law. The Unseelie Accords do provide precedent that fae rules of law and etiquette are respected by supernatural powers, so it's not an unreasonable idea. The only being we've seen so far openly defy the Accords is an Outsider - even the Knights of the Cross and the Denarians are signatories. If there's one kind of organization I'm surprised hasn't shown up in the Dresden Files yet, it's a Men In Black sort of mortal government agency dealing with the supernatural. The setting is clearly ripe for it even outside the not unreasonable prospect of wizards, fae, or other supernatural outright working for mortal governments. And such an organization could clearly be a terrifying force in the setting - Harry describes mortal governments and militaries getting involved in supernatural affairs as the nuclear option of the supernatural world. NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:Eeeeeeh. From the way Dresden talked about the encounter with Murphy in Summer Knight, and a few other places, I don't really think he remembers much of anything. He says, "They burned." I'm not even completely convinced he was the one that actually killed Justin, because there are a whole lot of unanswered questions hanging around the encounter. I think a lot of the unanswered questions about that encounter have to do with Harry's birth and the power over Outsiders he has, which has been hinted to be because of his birth in some way. I think Harry has been a pawn of the biggest powers in the supernatural world since before his conception, and he's going to find out exactly why he was born in the final trilogy that Butcher's promised.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:06
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Cythereal posted:The Unseelie Accords do provide precedent that fae rules of law and etiquette are respected by supernatural powers, so it's not an unreasonable idea. The only being we've seen so far openly defy the Accords is an Outsider - even the Knights of the Cross and the Denarians are signatories. Not that the Denarians are especially good at sticking to the Accords. quote:If there's one kind of organization I'm surprised hasn't shown up in the Dresden Files yet, it's a Men In Black sort of mortal government agency dealing with the supernatural. The setting is clearly ripe for it even outside the not unreasonable prospect of wizards, fae, or other supernatural outright working for mortal governments. And such an organization could clearly be a terrifying force in the setting - Harry describes mortal governments and militaries getting involved in supernatural affairs as the nuclear option of the supernatural world. You could make a decent case for Marcone's organization eventually becoming something like this, depending how much influence he actually has in local and national government circles.
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Jul 22, 2017 23:10
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docbeard posted:You could make a decent case for Marcone's organization eventually becoming something like this, depending how much influence he actually has in local and national government circles. Dresden's talked a lot about how it's only a matter of time until the mortal world realizes again that they live in a world of magic. I'd love for a government agent to pop up in one book and tell Dresden "We're not stupid, you know. We've been preparing modern civilization for this for more than a hundred years. We know about the fae and the different vampire courts and the White Council and the Denarians and the Outsiders and all of it."
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Jul 22, 2017 23:18
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