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A day of rage is definitely in the cards tho.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:37
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Yep.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:37
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Up to 3 killed now. Apparently a ton injured. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/07/al-aqsa-palestinian-killed-jerusalem-protests-rage-170721113840496.html
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Jul 21, 2017 16:04
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https://twitter.com/NadavPollak/status/888475311020662784
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Jul 21, 2017 20:15
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Three settlers in halamish killed in a knife attack - http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4992609,00.html
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Jul 21, 2017 21:28
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Three settlers in halamish killed in a knife attack - http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4992609,00.html I hope Israel will crack down on these terrorist attacks and especially everyone who supports them.
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Jul 21, 2017 21:39
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GaussianCopula posted:I hope Israel will crack down on these terrorist attacks and especially everyone who supports them. I hope the settlers get thrown into the Mediterranean but we can't all get what we want.
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Jul 21, 2017 21:51
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Fiction posted:I hope the settlers get thrown into the Mediterranean but we can't all get what we want. Throwing every arab in Palestine into sea might cause some environmental catastrophe.
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Jul 21, 2017 22:06
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Fiction posted:I hope the settlers get thrown into the Mediterranean but we can't all get what we want. Oh come on. I want them to become citizens of and fall under the jurisdiction of Palestine in a two state solution.  I mean, it's not my TOP choice (that's probably a one state solution mediated by unicorns and fairy dust), but it's at least one that's more compatible with the rule of law and international norms than the current situation. Edit: although I guess throwing them into the Mediterranean is a solid example of nonlethal ethnic cleansing since they can just wade back to the Israeli shore
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Jul 21, 2017 22:17
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I would say it's a good sign that the PLO is at least going to do SOMETHING.
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Jul 21, 2017 23:21
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FlamingLiberal posted:I would say it's a good sign that the PLO is at least going to do SOMETHING.
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Jul 21, 2017 23:41
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Disinterested posted:It doesn't particularly matter since two divided peoples in two divided states is the will of the majority of both ethnic groups. The terms of that arrangement are at issue, along with the question of how to ever get Israel to actually bring it about. This used to be the will of the majority of both ethnic groups. Then 1967 happened and one ethnic group realized they had the power to have both states for themselves.
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Jul 22, 2017 01:34
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GaussianCopula posted:I hope Israel will crack down on these terrorist attacks and especially everyone who supports them. Selective outrage is a hell of a drug
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Jul 22, 2017 01:52
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https://youtu.be/6Ejga4kJUts
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Jul 22, 2017 02:02
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qkkl posted:This used to be the will of the majority of both ethnic groups. Then 1967 happened and one ethnic group realized they had the power to have both states for themselves. Did you read the exchange in which that post was a part.
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Jul 22, 2017 03:58
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qkkl posted:This used to be the will of the majority of both ethnic groups. Then 1967 happened and one ethnic group realized they had the power to have both states for themselves. If this applies to anyone it's the Palestinians, given that the central demand of BDS is the end of Israel. If we look at the current firestorm, what's happening is that the presence of metal detectors in the immediate aftermath of a shooting is seen as unacceptable. Eventually they'll figure something out, and I think Abbas knows well that ending security cooperation will accomplish nothing accept kill a lot of Palestinians, and that acceleration is the same idiotic logic that got us Donald Trump. Meanwhile, the literal Waqf position is that the site is Muslim only, and all non-Muslims should be forbidden. Who's the one who loves Apartheid again?
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Jul 22, 2017 04:37
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Kim Jong Il posted:If this applies to anyone it's the Palestinians, given that the central demand of BDS is the end of Israel. The BDS movement is multi-faceted and without figurehead. I support it strongly, yet I, like most of who believe that international pressure must be applied to Israel in order to end its occupation rather than its existence. Do some anti-Semites latch onto these otherwise valiant efforts against the oppressor to further their own goals? Sure, and they are contemptible. No more than you, however—your consistent resort to such a strawman of your opponents' position is despicable. You might merely be indoctrinated into such fear that you believe any lie is justified if it serves to safeguard the occupation or you generally harbor hatred against the Palestinian people in your heart. Given your persistence, I'd wager the latter.
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Jul 22, 2017 04:56
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Kim Jong Il posted:Who's the one who loves Apartheid again? This is the sort of opinion that's hosed up to the extent that it's almost beyond comment. On one hand you have Actual Apartheid resulting in huge amounts of suffering and death, and on the other you have a holy site being restricted in a way that may be wrong but isn't causing actual material harm (and it's not like Israel couldn't force a change if they wanted, as they did with the current restrictions/metal detectors).
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Jul 22, 2017 05:39
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I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with boycotts of Israel not because "the europeans are boycotting jewish businesses" but because "the europeans are boycotting jewish businesses again."
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Jul 22, 2017 05:45
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Kim Jong Il posted:If this applies to anyone it's the Palestinians, given that the central demand of BDS is the end of Israel. It's me, I loving love Apartheid. Love it. The Democrat power establishment has not figured out that slavish support for Israel isn't winning them right-wingers and is deteriorating the faith of their actual supporters. Hence this totally unnecessary boycott law. If it's not the Kill the Palestinians with Bulldozers bill it's not going to get them traction with anyone.
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Jul 22, 2017 05:50
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hakimashou posted:I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with boycotts of Israel not because "the europeans are boycotting jewish businesses" but because "the europeans are boycotting jewish businesses again." Woah, this is gonna be really embarrassing for you but someone has to break the news. Not all Jewish people are Israeli. And since Israel surely isn't some kind of colonial apartheid state...
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Jul 22, 2017 06:01
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hakimashou posted:I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with boycotts of Israel not because "the europeans are boycotting jewish businesses" but because "the europeans are boycotting jewish businesses again." Lol AIPAC is working to make boycotting Israel a Federal felony in the us, punishable by up to 20 years in prison. The bill has bipartisan support including from big names like Chuck Schumer
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Jul 22, 2017 06:30
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OXBALLS DOT COM posted:Lol AIPAC is working to make boycotting Israel a Federal felony in the us, punishable by up to 20 years in prison. The bill has bipartisan support including from big names like Chuck Schumer If you believe that's ever going to happen I've got a bridge to sell you.
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Jul 22, 2017 06:54
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hakimashou posted:If you believe that's ever going to happen I've got a bridge to sell you. It's not a question of boycotting Israel already being criminalized in specific instances: a ban is already in place with regards to boycotting Israel at the behest of a foreign nation. This simply adds language that makes it illegal to do so for NGOs like the UN or EU, which BDS falls under, as well as adding associated jail time and fines. As far as the likelihood of the bill passing, it has support from half the House and half the Senate from both parties. Autism Sneaks fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 07:45
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In addition to not targeting jewish owned business outside Israel, not every business targeted by BDS is even owned by jewish people, there's quite a lot of corporations that do business in Israel. Also trying to pretend a boycott is nazism reborn with the current state of Gaza, the doubling down on West Bank settlements and Israeli manoeuvers on the northern border is incredibly disgusting.
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Jul 22, 2017 08:11
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hakimashou posted:I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with boycotts of Israel not because "the europeans are boycotting jewish businesses" but because "the europeans are boycotting jewish businesses again." I can assure you that Jewish people do not need you to champion them in the form of conflating them with Israel. If anything, it is really irritating having a bunch of other people (who often aren't even Jewish themselves) convincing the public that Israeli and Jewish interests overlap, because it's not exactly fun having to worry that other people are assuming that you must share the same morally dubious opinions as the state of Israel just because of your ethnicity. edit: And while there's a non-negligible amount of antisemitism that latches onto the anti-Zionist cause, it's generally very easy to recognize (from looking at the general language a person uses, etc), which further eliminates the need to conflate two things that are fundamentally independent of one another (opposition to Israeli actions and antisemitism). Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 08:33
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The interests of the israeli government don't overlap with those of the israeli people. I support boycotting Israel as a means to pressure the Israeli government to act in the best interests of the Israeli citizenry, first and foremost.
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Jul 22, 2017 08:55
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Kim Jong Il posted:If this applies to anyone it's the Palestinians, given that the central demand of BDS is the end of Israel. A claim you constantly make but never prove. Is it obvious to yourself that you are incredibly disingenuous when you say stuff like this? It is easy to check what BDS's demands actually are, which are Israel: 1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall 2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and 3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194. Oh no, Israel respecting the rights of Palestinians! The horror!
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Jul 22, 2017 09:35
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hakimashou posted:I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with boycotts of Israel not because "the europeans are boycotting jewish businesses" but because "the europeans are boycotting jewish businesses again." I give 0 fucks whether or not an Israeli business is run by Jews. Instead what is happening is "the Europeans are boycotting Apartheid businesses again".
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Jul 22, 2017 10:03
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team overhead smash posted:A claim you constantly make but never prove. Is it obvious to yourself that you are incredibly disingenuous when you say stuff like this? So does the BDS movement request the Arab countries to respect the rights of Jews? It's a stupid campaign that will not solve anything, because everyone knows that Israel can and will not accept those demands, especially a right of return on the basis of resolution 194, especially since somehow Palestinians can inherit refugee status (no other group does this). Instead of working to a peaceful solution (e.g. integrating Palestine refugees into other Arab countries, like Germany and Poland did with their displaced people after WW2) they keep the Palestine people as pawns in their anti Semitic campaign, which only serves Middle Eastern autocrats to have an enemy they can beat up on (rhetorically, every time they tried to do it militarily they got kicked in the nuts).
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Jul 22, 2017 10:46
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Yeah it's hosed that those people who've never lived in Palestine could '''''return''' there
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Jul 22, 2017 10:55
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Yeah it's hosed that those people who've never lived in Palestine could '''''return''' there You mean like Poles into Silesia?
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Jul 22, 2017 10:57
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team overhead smash posted:Oh no, Israel respecting the rights of Palestinians! The horror! "This but non-ironically" is the case for 100% of the Israel supporters in this thread and anywhere. GaussianCopula posted:So does the BDS movement request the Arab countries to respect the rights of Jews? Feel free to start your own BDS campaign for this separate issue. GaussianCopula posted:It's a stupid campaign that will not solve anything, because everyone knows that Israel can and will not accept those demands "Militating against injustice is stupid because the criminals can and will get away with their crimes anyway."
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Jul 22, 2017 11:10
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GaussianCopula posted:So does the BDS movement request the Arab countries to respect the rights of Jews? Its not like Israel or any other nation would ever respect some sort of 'birthright' to return to where one's kin is from No sirree, no precedent for that anywhere at all nope
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Jul 22, 2017 11:13
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420 Gank Mid posted:Its not like Israel or any other nation would ever respect some sort of 'birthright' to return to where one's kin is from So, just that I understand this, there is no birthright for Israelis, Germans, Poles (or any other displaced people after several wars) but for the Palestinians there is because ~reasons~? People need to realize that it's 2017 and not 1948, which means certain realities need to be accepted.
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Jul 22, 2017 11:17
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GaussianCopula posted:So, just that I understand this, there is no birthright for Israelis, Germans, Poles (or any other displaced people after several wars) but for the Palestinians there is because ~reasons~? yeah i'm just gonna need you to actually read up on poo poo before you talk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return
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Jul 22, 2017 11:20
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The reality being that if my family has lived in Buenos Aires for 200 years but I'm Jewish I have a right to return but if my parents were driven out of Palestine in 48 I just have to deal with it. This is the right, just, grown-up position.
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Jul 22, 2017 11:23
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botany posted:yeah i'm just gonna need you to actually read up on poo poo before you talk Obviously Palestinians would have the right to return to their state - the Palestinian state. What BDS demands is a right to return for them into Israel, a state which the party supported by a majority of Palestinians in Gaza does not accept and wants to eradicate.
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Jul 22, 2017 11:24
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It's not really a return if you don't go back to where you lived.
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Jul 22, 2017 11:27
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GaussianCopula posted:Obviously Palestinians would have the right to return to their state - the Palestinian state. What BDS demands is a right to return for them into Israel, a state which the party supported by a majority of Palestinians in Gaza does not accept and wants to eradicate. A right to return to a nonexisting place. How wonderful.
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Jul 22, 2017 12:04
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