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I think they are onto me commandos
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Jul 22, 2017 13:00
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Tokamak posted:I think you might be confusing things. Streaming IO and dynamically loading assets is a fundamental part of a game engine. It is called streamengine in CryEngine. You can seamlessly transition from station, to space, to a different station in 2.6 right now. Which could be done via. layer switching in stock CryEngine. http://docs.aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/latest/developerguide/system-streaming.html One of their problems is the size of the assets they'll need to stream, that's the megamap talk. What you're missing is that they've been trying to do this for twelve months, and their physiscs engine isn't up to the task of scaling out, let alone the netcode.
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Jul 22, 2017 13:32
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trucutru posted:Yeah, so? It still doesn't have it and SC will. Thus SC > Elite, which is all that matters. I see in that case I'll crawl back to my former Master and beg for forgiveness for my disbelief like Homer Simpson when he came back to Mr Burns. I hope cig will accept my apology and offer me to buy a completioninst package. 
Combat Theory fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 13:33
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Tokamak posted:Modern art heavy AAA games don't fit inside GPU memory and RAM, therefore requiring content streaming off the disk out of necessity. So of course there are 'hidden load screens'. I don't know why Derek and some goons think it some sort of gotcha. Seamless loading just means it doesn't pop you back to a menu/load screen. Even stuff like in Gears of War where you are stuck in a room where run is disabled, and some voice over happens is 'seamless' (however obvious it is to the player). The gotcha isn't that it's being done — it's that citizens have convinced themselves that it isn't; that this game will be doning something no other game has ever done; and that SC will therefore be superior to all other games. They want to discount all kinds of games for doing exactly that because of that exact reason: “it's just a hidden load screen” — implying that SC won't be reduced to such lowbrow trickery (and often being wrong about what those other games are actually doing… E:D being the most obvious and common example). The gotcha is also that CIG is struggling to implement something Morrowind had as one of its headline features 15 years ago. And that even though it's already built into the engine — never mind the incompetent kludges they've slathered on top of it.
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Jul 22, 2017 13:43
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Absolutely no way evocati and ptu take that little. They usually schedule thm to last a week or two and then woops it takes a whole month because things start to break with even a little bit of pressure from users I'm certain CR will sacrifice testing and bugfixing for the sake of not walking onstage at gamescom with no publically released 3.0. It's too late for this to be a thorough process, whatever's in 3.0 will be a broken bug-filled mess.
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Jul 22, 2017 14:00
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D_Smart posted:I believe he was running a dev build. He did say he played it last month. So. His write-up wasn't very clear. That's why I asked him a follow-up question. https://twitter.com/screencuisine/status/888635298833285120 He says he flew to both Daymar and an asteroid (I assume Delamar which has Levski landing zone). I for one think it's a huge mistake for them to have it in the same scene because it's going to continue being a huge performance (streaming isn't going to solve that) hog, forcing them to change it at some point. Which leads me to believe that it was done this way probably for the review and to keep up the hype leading to GamesCon. And until we can play it, there is still no way to tell how (which doesn't matter, as long as it works) they are handling the transition from space to the moon. It could be a "streamed" loading like ED when you are within proximity of the moon. quote:That's pretty special in cryengine looking as good as it does. I don't know why it's "special" though. It's just another object in a CryEngine scene (as seen from the AtV videos). The debate has always been about whether or not they would keep it in the scene as-is (like the stations), or load it separately (like AC, Star Marine, ArcCorp) as its own level for performance reasons. That they are still in pre-alpha, and it took them 5 years to get planetary scenes in a space game, even after touting it since 2015, is what's amazing. Not to mention the fact that they are still playing catch-up with that sort of thing anyway, as it's not revolutionary anymore. Tokamak posted:I don't understand why people were doubting this. It's supported by the engine. I never claimed that it couldn't be done. I was always positing on how they were going to do it, due to performance issues - which we've been seeing - that would result. See above. Tokamak posted:I think you might be confusing things. Streaming IO and dynamically loading assets is a fundamental part of a game engine. It is called streamengine in CryEngine. You can seamlessly transition from station, to space, to a different station in 2.6 right now. Which could be done via. layer switching in stock CryEngine. The moons/planets are just standard CryEngine levels. Once again - the issue has always been about HOW they are going to handle it in the client-server environment - which isn't going to be the same as in the editor - while addressing the performance issues. And if performance wasn't an issue, they'd have made Crusader a standard planet (instead of a gas giant), instead of moving Delamar (a planetoid) from Nyx to Stanton in order to have barren moons which have less performance requirements than a full blown planet with more topological features. quote:The bottom line is that 3.0 isn't coming out until it is fully integrated. Saying that you are sceptical about space-planet transitions is pointless, when they have both space and planets separately working. When 3.0 comes out (whenever that is) it will have the seamless planets, and Derek will still say he called it. It will be a repeat of Star Marine not being in 2.6, and he will come up with a semantic argument so he can pretend that he was always right. There are no planets in 3.0. Only barren moons and a planetoid, with landing zones. Anyone who thinks 3.0 is going to be anything other than a milestone like 2.0 (2015) or 2.6 (Star Marine) is an idiot. It will get released in some fashion, backers will see that it's just another check mark in the list of promises, then forget about it after a week due to the repetitive "missions" in it. That's if performance issues allow even most of them to actually "play" it. My stance on this planetary transition issue has been pretty consistent: 17-07-19 // performance issues in 3.0, seamless transition discussion 17-07-07 // procedural moons analysis 17-06-22 // 3.0 tech nightmare & performance hog 17-05-15 // 3.0 seamless transition thoughts 17-04-23 // discussion of moons in 3.0 17-02-13 // discussion with procedural planets videos (from Nyx to sandworm) 16-10-29 // discussion of procedural planet generation We also now know that they aren't doing "procedural planets" (as in Battlecruiser/Universal Combat games, No Man's Sky etc), despite touting this since 2014. Instead, they are using procedural techniques to populate the "surface" of planets and moons. ps. Star Marine wasn't in the original release of 2.6. This is a proven fact that's indisputable. The fact that it got added in a follow-update, doesn't change that fact. And I don't have to "pretend" to be right, because I usually am. That's why I write - a lot - so that whatever I am saying, is out there to be researched, cited, and referenced.
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Jul 22, 2017 14:03
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tooterfish posted:Elite does have them. 
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Jul 22, 2017 14:06
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RSI posted:It’s a tough little ship… and a tough little buggy! The Air and Space Pack pairs the Cyclone CRC-AA buggy with the Anvil U4A-3 Terrapin-class Scanning/Exploration Ship. Whether you’re dodging asteroids in deep space or scouting unexplored worlds, there’s a vehicle for you! Lol they're selling a combo pack with their moronic buggy and a ship too small to carry it. God drat, I bet they're gonna sell like hotcakes too.
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Jul 22, 2017 14:07
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Combat Theory posted:To have anything meaningfully "ww2 esque" in space you need to limit vcaps otherwise people will fly past each other so fast the doppler effect will color shift the light of their t-posing commandos on-board. Er, so what? Supposedly max top speeds in SC are 1000 m/s = 3.3e-6c. You could comfortably go thousands of times faster and Doppler shifts would still be negligible. Hell, even at relative speeds of 0.1c it would barely be noticeable considering even the largest space chariots would fly across your screen faster than it can refresh. Also, why would spaceships have bright lights on during combat in the first place?
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Jul 22, 2017 14:08
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Derek can you ask him why he felt the need to dedicate two entire paragraphs of his lovely puff piece to the fact that instead of having a "sprint" button like every other loving game in the universe, for some reason CIG have decided you should control your walk speed with your mouse wheel?
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Jul 22, 2017 14:08
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Sarsapariller posted:Well, the way I evaluate stuff is I stack up the evidence and look at it as a whole. Exactly. We know CIG are stage-managing what is shown because you can see evidence of them doing it all the time. Look at last years Citizencon Planet Editor Demo for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKCDRyYzLtM. They do a bunch of stuff, travel from Olisar to the planet, build a little outpost, then jump in a ship to test the level. All good and looks impressive but it's what happens next that tells the real story to me. At 11:30 in the video they spot a moon up in the sky and 'decide' to travel onto it...  They land on an impressive looking 'alien world' and fly around some structures, there is cheering and applause from the crowd...  Then what happens? A mystery fighter appears alongside our ship! "They're flying in formation with us" the commentator says...  Well look who it is! And with that one clumsy move, made with all the subtlety of Chris Roberts 'Hollywood director' they expose the whole thing as bullshit. This wasn't the casual 'let our devs show you around our toolset' section at all, it was another dog-and-pony-show and it's then impossible to use that video to judge what's 'real' or not real at all. Maybe it actually makes you go back and look over the whole presentation a bit more closely? Like back at the start when I said they went "from Olisar to the planet", hmm, wasn't Olisar a little closer to the planet than we're used to? Demo  In Game  Or the procedural tools they're using being named precisely for the planet they're working on...      You'd think that these procedural tools would be named a bit more generically considering they could be used to craft any planet in the universe, unless of course they were created for one purpose and one purpose only... Now, none of this is a smoking gun, none of it is even that 'dodgy' by gaming industry standards. It's just to point out that everything, EVERYTHING provided by CIG is suspect and can't be taken at face value. Have they got some impressive playable sequences to dump in front of reporters and those on studio tours? I drat well hope so after 5+ years, but that doesn't mean they're anywhere near having a 'real' Star Citizen game experience ready to deliver to the backers. Wrecked Angle fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 14:10
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Beet Wagon posted:Lol they're selling a combo pack with their moronic buggy and a ship too small to carry it. God drat, I bet they're gonna sell like hotcakes too. I for one am looking forward to spending time in my Scanning/Exploration Ship to look at the 5 planets lol
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Jul 22, 2017 14:17
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Wrecked Angle posted:Exactly. We know CIG are stage-managing what is shown because you can see evidence of them doing it all the time. Look at last years Citizencon Planet Editor Demo for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKCDRyYzLtM. They do a bunch of stuff, travel from Olisar to the planet, build a little outpost, then jump in a ship to test the level. All good and looks impressive but it's what happens next that tells the real story to me. 
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Jul 22, 2017 14:22
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I don't even understand the planetary landings thing anyway, at least not the way it's being done. They've basically decided halfway through making their space game, that what they actually wanted to make was the sequel to Mad Max? Edit: Sorry of course I acknowledge that they're only starting with Mad Max dust planet, then there will be Far Cry jungle planet, then the Volcanic lava-zone planet, underwater zone, Green Hill zone and of course the full Blade Runner simulation dystopian L.A planet... Can't wait. Wrecked Angle fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 14:38
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it's really pathetic their big 2017 milestone is finally getting a moon ingame
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Jul 22, 2017 15:14
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Latin Pheonix posted:Another report and nothing of importance has been completed. You can't keep pushing the individual deadlines back a week forever, guys! The one thing we should have learned by now is that time and Star Citizen makes fools of us all. The SC faithful have been so sure that total success is just around the corner for so long. And the SC skeptics have been so sure that total collapse has been just around the corner for so long. And everyone has been wrong. Star Citizen continues to defy expectations in all directions. It lumbers along blatantly defying the laws of physics, finances, and project management and it just can't die. But it can't live either. And everyone involved, with each passing month, finds themselves thinking "surely it can't continue". Surely they have to release something. Surely there has to be progress. Surely they'll have to come clean. Surely it can't go on like this. But it goes on. This is purgatory. We are caught in purgatory--in the limbo between dreams and disaster. The people who have forgotten Star Citizen are the only ones who are free. We who choose to watch this slow collapse are just as trapped as those who hope they are watching a slow assembly. Time has no meaning here for us. We repeat actions and complaints and sick burns and pizza fights endlessly. We will do this for eternity. All of us, together, in these grey stimperial wastes.
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Jul 22, 2017 15:15
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peter gabriel posted:I for one am looking forward to spending time in my Scanning/Exploration Ship to look at the 5 planets lol I'm going to film your exciting journey in my Space News Van!
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Jul 22, 2017 15:16
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look for a complete solar system by 2022 at this rate, 2030 and they'll finally have that night and day cycle plus a second system. think of all the places you commandos can bring vending machines to!
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Jul 22, 2017 15:16
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Kosumo posted:I've got this one ..... the reason that Chris Roberts used a picture of the Milford Sounds in New Zealand is because Chris Roberts is the head of Tourism New Zealand. 
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Jul 22, 2017 15:31
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doingitwrong posted:The one thing we should have learned by now is that time and Star Citizen makes fools of us all. The SC faithful have been so sure that total success is just around the corner for so long. And the SC skeptics have been so sure that total collapse has been just around the corner for so long. And everyone has been wrong. This, so much this. Also, at best, with even a full release including all content promised/proposed, it's never going to be anything more than a computer game. It's not and will never be a technological masterstroke of advancement, nothing in it advances anything to do with gaming, it'll never do anything usefull other than eat the space gamer niche markets free time. That is the best case scenario for any game, transient and quickly forgotten or replaced by something better.
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Jul 22, 2017 15:37
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The Titanic posted:Girls play on Facebook. Keep them out of the real mans games. It's very silly how certain parts of the industry have been able to label half the population as non-customers for games, and make a bunch of insecure boys believe it, considering how many women played games in the 80s/90s before this whole thing took hold. 
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Jul 22, 2017 15:42
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doingitwrong posted:The one thing we should have learned by now is that time and Star Citizen makes fools of us all. The SC faithful have been so sure that total success is just around the corner for so long. And the SC skeptics have been so sure that total collapse has been just around the corner for so long. And everyone has been wrong. the sickening and heartbreaking truth 
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Jul 22, 2017 15:44
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Welcome to the
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Tippis posted:The gotcha is also that CIG is struggling to implement something Morrowind had as one of its headline features 15 years ago. And that even though it's already built into the engine — never mind the incompetent kludges they've slathered on top of it.
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Jul 22, 2017 15:56
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the gameplay is moving the loving vending machine goddamn content locusts
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Jul 22, 2017 16:14
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Beet Wagon posted:Derek can you ask him why he felt the need to dedicate two entire paragraphs of his lovely puff piece to the fact that instead of having a "sprint" button like every other loving game in the universe, for some reason CIG have decided you should control your walk speed with your mouse wheel? Splinter Cell used the mouse wheel, thanks. Of course, that was a stealth game..
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Jul 22, 2017 16:19
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Bofast posted:You mean gameplay? I don't think that was ever a Morrowind headline feature. I mean, it never should be one for any game. It should just be there — not as something you need to advertise, but as the base loving line for being a game to begin with. So no. Not that. Even though that was a pretty nice one. Tippis fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 16:34
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Percelus posted:the gameplay is moving the loving vending machine goddamn content locusts Theres a 30 minute youtube video of a guy planning the ultitmate mission in the PU. Transporting a merlin around the PU at a few stops and hoping nothing "untoward" happens. And by untoward he was referring to the server/desktop crashing. He offscreens a bunch of reloads to get a fresh server, "butter server" as he calls it. It stutters over and over before he even calls his ship. I stopped watching there but judging by the length of the video its unlikely he was able to do it.
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Jul 22, 2017 16:57
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Mirificus fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 17:19
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With Derek's new av every time he posts it's like I'm back to reading the Blue Story thread.
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Jul 22, 2017 17:21
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Tippis posted:But that's… *gasp* …a console peripheral. I remember the forums post on the old forum before CIG nuked it, with people saying clamouring for that everyone has to walk in public areas or it ruins my fidelity! This just adds more options for roleplaying! Am I slowly sauntering, taking in the sights and impressing people with my seal leather jacket? Am I slighty hurried, late for a clandestine meeting? Am I running from debt collectors, knocking over Big Benny's as I rush past?
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Jul 22, 2017 17:22
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Jul 22, 2017 17:24
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Jul 22, 2017 17:28
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Tippis posted:
Really? Great
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Jul 22, 2017 17:36
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Matthew Murray, Nikola Tesla, Wright Brothers, brilliant people who changed the world. I'm not sure what world altering ideas Chris Roberts is bringing to anyone, these people are loving insane.
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Jul 22, 2017 17:38
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Its almost like dumping hundreds or thousands of dollars into a videogame years past its original release date and requiring a PhD to piece together all the true facts might be something that not everyone feels the same about and is looked down upon because of how passionately these people talk about it.
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Jul 22, 2017 17:39
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Jul 22, 2017 17:50
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You should have snagged the comments above that one. Some dude literally not understanding the meaning of "as you were" is too good to pass up. e: I guess maybe he meant in terms of military slang. So what rank is 'warlord' exactly lol Beet Wagon fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 18:02
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Bofast posted:It's very silly how certain parts of the industry have been able to label half the population as non-customers for games, and make a bunch of insecure boys believe it, considering how many women played games in the 80s/90s before this whole thing took hold. no but you see sexism is a problem because people scream about it and furthermore
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Jul 22, 2017 18:06
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Beet Wagon posted:You should have snagged the comments above that one. Some dude literally not understanding the meaning of "as you were" is too good to pass up. Even in military lingo, as you were is still keep doing what youre doing.
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Jul 22, 2017 18:16
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doingitwrong posted:The one thing we should have learned by now is that time and Star Citizen makes fools of us all. The SC faithful have been so sure that total success is just around the corner for so long. And the SC skeptics have been so sure that total collapse has been just around the corner for so long. And everyone has been wrong. 
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Jul 22, 2017 18:27
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