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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:is really burning my out leveling up a healer Yeah, I'm pretty fed up of running healer in roulettes because of suicidal tanks so I end up just kind of not wanting to do them at all because my bro relies on me running healer so he's not waiting 10 years for a pop so I don't get many opps to not heal bad tanks in them.
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Jul 22, 2017 15:30
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I have a couple of dumb questions: I recently finished the main quest and got to level 70 on a DPS job. Now I'm at this point I'm at somewhat of a loss of what to actually do. The main quest was guiding everything I did in the game for the couple of months I've been playing, so I don't really know what I should be aiming to do now. What is the endgame things I should be trying to do now the main quest is over? Also I've always liked tanking the most in games, at least when I'm used to them when other players are involved, but I played a DPS class in this so I could learn dungeons and whatnot better without hopefully messing things up for everyone in the group. I planned to use this time when I hit 70 to level a tank (and a healer too, Astrologian seems great from the little I played one when I unlocked it), and I've played a paladin on and off while I was playing through ARR because I've always liked sword and shields best. I levelled it for a while in PotD before I had Heavensward/Stormblood, and I've been doing some daily roulettes on it lately so it's level 55 now. However, I always feel like I'm going too slow and letting people down because I'm the tank version of a Honest Healer (does that have a term?) - I generally go from one pack to the next, I use my cooldowns and I play carefully. Mostly because I don't know the dungeons too well, as many I've only done once while levelling, but I generally keep moving and getting new packs as soon as one is dead. I keep doubting myself and it's got to the point I don't even want to do daily roulettes now because I don't think I'm good enough. I used to play WoW as a tank many years ago and I think I was pretty decent at it but I just don't seem to have the confidence to tank in this game (or confidence in myself) as dumb as that sounds. Does anyone have any advice on how to be a better tank or ways to get myself used to doing dungeons and trials as a tank?
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Jul 22, 2017 15:42
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Waci posted:Thordan Ex is a thing of beauty and every newbie should do it ilvl-synced at least once. vOv posted:I'll fully admit to not telling newbie MTs about double holy bladedance and watching them get murdered because I thought it would be funny. god bless you two never change
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Jul 22, 2017 15:48
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RoboJoe posted:I have a couple of dumb questions: Your general main goal at first now is going to be trying to get better gear. That will help your confidence problems too. If you haven't done it yet unlock Kugane Castle and the Temple of the Fist. (one in Kugane, one in Ralgar.) You can run these for Tomestones of Verity and Tomestones of Creation which can be traded into at Ralgar for better gear. The former is unlimited, the latter is capped to 450/week. You'll get level 300 gear from the dungeons (which includes Ala Mhigo), and then higher gear from the tomestones. Once you're geared out you can start looking at doing EX Primals (Susano and Lakshmi Extreme) or the new Omega Raid. These are the current end-game content and honestly are fairly newbie-friendly. They're two fairly easy Extreme Primals and the raid only gets extremely punishing in its Savage variation. Don't be afraid to be slow in dungeons. Practice until you gain confidence. Do daily roulette and don't worry if you're not 'good enough.' Anything prior to 60 dungeons will not be that difficult, anything 60-70 will be good practice. The only general advice I can offer is "use your cooldowns." Don't keep saving them for an emergency until they have a more-than-a-minute cooldown. Use them when you need them. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 15:50
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POLICE CAR AUCTION posted:I suck rear end at gpose in general but met this glorious dude named Bowie Stardust in trial roulette That's great. I made Freddie Mercury in EVE a while back 
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Jul 22, 2017 15:54
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RoboJoe posted:Does anyone have any advice on how to be a better tank or ways to get myself used to doing dungeons and trials as a tank? Don't stress too much about it. If you are just leveling up and doing dungeons for the first time then you might want to take it slow. It is just as much about your party as your own tanking. If the party doesn't have much AoE it probably isn't worth pulling multiple packs anyway. If you notice the healer and black mage are decked out in 70 gear and are synced down then just give a heads up and pull a bunch of stuff. If you die just say sorry and pull slower. The only way to find your limit is to probably pull too much and die by accident. Once you start you won't go back though. It's much more fun to grab a whole bunch of packs, make sure you use cooldowns and AoE them then it is to go one at a time. Don't stress so much, most people won't give you too much crap regardless. Mash that roulette button and remember all the awful tanks you've been with and how you can't possibly be that bad.
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Jul 22, 2017 15:57
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ImpAtom posted:Don't be afraid to be slow in dungeons. And have goons make angry posts about me? No way 
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Jul 22, 2017 16:03
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The key to improving as a tank, as in all things, is to push your limits. If you feel comfortable handling one pack of mobs, go ahead and grab another one too. Another thing is to not be afraid of wiping. It sucks, but it's not like you can't just get right back up and try again.
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Jul 22, 2017 16:33
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RoboJoe posted:
The term is "Respectful Tank" because by pulling one pack at a time you're "respecting the content" or some such. Honestly, if you're getting into tanking, just take it at your own pace. You can explain to the party that you're new or you've never tanked this particular dungeon before and they'll usually be pretty understanding. In leveling dungeons, most people are okay with one pack at a time, especially if you have new players. In my experience, it's the 50/60 roulette that gets everyone in gotta go fast mode. But you'll learn the limit. There's really no shame in pulling big, wiping, and then slowing down. Find your limit and work out of your comfort zone from there. At the end of the day it's just a game. But seriously, if you can keep threat on a full pack, even a small one, and you use your cooldowns effectively, you'll be better than a significant chunk of the people who play tanks.
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Jul 22, 2017 16:33
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Pulling 1 pack at a time isn't great when I'm on a class and at a sync level where I can AoE, but it's worse when the tank - -Inexplicably pauses -Overpulls and lets adds eat the healer/DPS -Doesn't know what cooldowns are, and then blames the healer -Runs around like a dummy once mobs are in place It's helpful to level as a DPS or healer so you can see other tanks (good and bad) and know what to do/not to do.
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Jul 22, 2017 16:45
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isk posted:-Inexplicably pauses This is something I never got. Like at all. It is so widespread that there has to be some sort of "logic" behind why so many tanks do it but I can't think of it. Killed the first trash group? Stand still for 10 seconds. Walk into the boss room? Stand still for 10 seconds. Killed the boss? Stand still for 10 seconds. There is always this dramatic pause.
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Jul 22, 2017 16:54
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Tyty posted:Ah, okay, I didn't know that about getting hit by the AOEs which I guess must've happened during the fight. I'll take a couple more stabs at it on my next day off. Thanks! It's also the safest place to stand as a good general rule. Melee dps are given adequate time to get away from whatever they need to, while ranged dps and healers don't get the same consideration if they're standing in the middle of nowhere (i.e., the WP hard cone attack mentioned a while back).
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Jul 22, 2017 16:57
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isk posted:Pulling 1 pack at a time isn't great when I'm on a class and at a sync level where I can AoE, but it's worse when the tank - moving outside your preferred role makes you better at all roles frankly
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Jul 22, 2017 17:03
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Leal posted:This is something I never got. Like at all. It is so widespread that there has to be some sort of "logic" behind why so many tanks do it but I can't think of it. Killed the first trash group? Stand still for 10 seconds. Walk into the boss room? Stand still for 10 seconds. Killed the boss? Stand still for 10 seconds. There is always this dramatic pause.
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Jul 22, 2017 17:03
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Argas posted:So, Omega got me thinking. I think them using the grimoire framing device is pretty likely.
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Jul 22, 2017 17:20
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isk posted:Pulling 1 pack at a time isn't great when I'm on a class and at a sync level where I can AoE, but it's worse when the tank - Tanking big packs with lots of aoes to dodge is admittedly kind of annoying. I always hated Sohm Al Hard for that, even if that dungeon was quick and easy enough to do. I always felt bad for moving the things that weren't doing the aoes if I had a melee dps in the group, but I'm not eating three stacked aoes if I can help it. I would always keep them in the general place we stopped and where the ground things like Shadowflare or whatever happened to be, but I'd have to wiggle dudes by necessity.
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Jul 22, 2017 17:24
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If you go slow in dungeons, I'll kill you!!
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Jul 22, 2017 17:25
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isk posted:Pulling 1 pack at a time isn't great when I'm on a class and at a sync level where I can AoE, but it's worse when the tank - Even when tanks are otherwise good on pull sizes and cooldowns, a lot of them will still do the drat inexplicable pauses which make me die a little inside every time I play MNK. Edit: I understand the source of the reason because I often find myself doing it too when I play tank; you get so conditioned by idiots who fall behind that you don't want to rush too far ahead and suddenly find yourself 3-manning the next pack or boss. Particularly if it's the (usually honest) healer, which it often is.
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Jul 22, 2017 17:26
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it's me, and i'm making sure everyone is there while i'm getting tp.
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Jul 22, 2017 17:31
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Countblanc posted:If you go slow in dungeons, I'll kill you!! this
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Jul 22, 2017 17:35
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i'm the tank who makes sure that your buffs run out before pulling yoship intended you to start the fight at greased lightning 0 and by gods you'll do it
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Jul 22, 2017 17:45
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Apologies for the delay in response!ImpAtom posted:Your general main goal at first now is going to be trying to get better gear. That will help your confidence problems too. If you haven't done it yet unlock Kugane Castle and the Temple of the Fist. (one in Kugane, one in Ralgar.) You can run these for Tomestones of Verity and Tomestones of Creation which can be traded into at Ralgar for better gear. The former is unlimited, the latter is capped to 450/week. You'll get level 300 gear from the dungeons (which includes Ala Mhigo), and then higher gear from the tomestones. Once you're geared out you can start looking at doing EX Primals (Susano and Lakshmi Extreme) or the new Omega Raid. These are the current end-game content and honestly are fairly newbie-friendly. They're two fairly easy Extreme Primals and the raid only gets extremely punishing in its Savage variation. Great, thanks, that gives me an idea of what to aim to do on my Red Mage. I have unlocked Kugane Castle and Temple of the Fist so I've got access to the Expert Daily Roulette now, so I'll keep doing those to gear up my Red Mage to try to do those Primals or the raid (or maybe just focus on my Paladin and level him up until I need to do those things). Drone Incognito posted:Don't stress too much about it. If you are just leveling up and doing dungeons for the first time then you might want to take it slow. Leofish posted:The term is "Respectful Tank" because by pulling one pack at a time you're "respecting the content" or some such. I do use my cooldowns as much as possible to lessen any burden on the healer (and so they can DPS more) by rotating through them all while I'm fighting groups of enemies (and also on the bosses), they're basically never not inactive so I wasn't sure if I was wasting them doing it like it. I guess I should try pulling more packs together, but often I'm doing a dungeon I've only done once or twice so I'm not sure where more packs are or how hard they can hit so I'd rather play it safe. The next time I'm in a dungeon I'm more familiar with I shall try to gather more things together. Also at the start of dungeons I always say that I'm Inexperienced with the auto-translate so people know I might not be so good. isk posted:Pulling 1 pack at a time isn't great when I'm on a class and at a sync level where I can AoE, but it's worse when the tank - Leal posted:This is something I never got. Like at all. It is so widespread that there has to be some sort of "logic" behind why so many tanks do it but I can't think of it. Killed the first trash group? Stand still for 10 seconds. Walk into the boss room? Stand still for 10 seconds. Killed the boss? Stand still for 10 seconds. There is always this dramatic pause. I usually stop at the entrance to a boss room to make sure everyone is going towards the barrier or inside it (or not watching the cutscene for a final boss), or I'll stop moving if I don't see players dots on the minimap moving at all, but otherwise I try to keep a steady pass and keep going to pick up a new pack when the current one is dead. I'm not sure about the moving around thing when I have a pack though, I'll try to stand as still as possibleso it's easier for the DPS to attack them, unless I need to move out of an AOE although sometimes there are so many I have to move a lot and I'm not sure if that's right. As a tank should I be trying to get out of all the AOEs and cone AOEs or is it ever okay to stay in them? Not from a laziness point of view, but more should I make sure I have a cooldown up and not move so the DPS don't get interrupted doing what they're doing? One last question after all this: do people ever want to do dungeons at all after doing the daily roulettes? I wonder if asking in my FC (I'm in PCD) to see if anyone wants to tag along and do a bunch of dungeon runs with me tanking is a good idea and would help me and others? I feel so stupid about worrying so much in a videogame like this when I'm about to hit that queue button in case I mess up a dungeon and make everyone wipe and they all get mad.
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Jul 22, 2017 18:20
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holy poo poo why can't this music play all the time  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvUdycDqidw Speaking of music, does the music loop in the expansion areas or is it the same thing as the main game where it plays a short tune followed by lots of silence? I know a lot of people play MMOs muted but for me the music is important for ~*~my immersion~*~ and thus enjoyment of the game, and FFXIV is kinda disappointing in that regard. The music that's there is good, but there's so little of it 
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Jul 22, 2017 18:24
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  Good.
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Jul 22, 2017 18:27
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Jul 22, 2017 18:59
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:moving outside your preferred role makes you better at all roles frankly Agreed Leofish posted:Tanking big packs with lots of aoes to dodge is admittedly kind of annoying. I always hated Sohm Al Hard for that, even if that dungeon was quick and easy enough to do. Definitely, that's the difference. You're moving intelligently. Running around randomly when they're aren't any AoEs to dodge is something else. RoboJoe posted:movement things It sounds like you're fine, that you're moving and pausing with purpose. Usually it's possible to dodge AoEs and keep mobs in the same general location. Try to return to the same spot you were in before the AoE, if possible (it isn't always, don't sweat those occasions). FFXIV does a lot of things well, but it's not great at melee hit detection on moving targets.
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Jul 22, 2017 19:14
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Your Computer posted:holy poo poo why can't this music play all the time I never did understand why they named that track Battle Theme 1.x when it is the battle theme for Final Fantasy 2  In Heavensward areas, overworld music plays continuously on a loop. For Stormblood areas, they went back to having music then silence then music, which is a shame because the overworld themes are *really good*. On the bright side, the silence doesn't last for long before the music track starts playing again, and the music tracks themselves are much longer than they were in ARR zones. Another thing that they started doing in Heavensward (and continued in Stormblood) is that many/most dungeon music themes are variations on the music theme of the overworld area they are connected to. It's kind of a neat touch and works very well in most every case.
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Jul 22, 2017 19:23
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I don't get why some ranged/casters are seemingly allergic to standing close to the boss even when that's blatantly what the boss mechanics demand and people have said repeatedly to "stack behind the boss".
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Jul 22, 2017 19:27
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Augus posted:I don't get why some ranged/casters are seemingly allergic to standing close to the boss even when that's blatantly what the boss mechanics demand and people have said repeatedly to "stack behind the boss". Because it might hit them and they would die instantly!!!
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Jul 22, 2017 19:28
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Your Computer posted:And have goons make angry posts about me? No way But they'll make angry posts either way. Josuke Higashikata posted:i'm the tank who makes sure that your buffs run out before pulling if i can't have my fun buffs nobody can
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Jul 22, 2017 19:31
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Fister Roboto posted:Because it might hit them and they would die instantly!!! Pretty much. There is a widespread (and largely mistaken) belief that if you stand far away, you don't have to worry as much about dodging AoEs. Probably combined with a bit of "I can attack from far away, so I'll stand far away!"
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Jul 22, 2017 19:33
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There's also the thought that if you're apart from others then you don't need to dodge AOEs aimed at them, so you have less moving to do and thus more casting can be done. It's not really correct but it feels correct. I've only just recently broken that habit, but I still fall prey to it sometimes.
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Jul 22, 2017 20:01
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i just need personal space! unless i'm at 100/100, then it's time to mosh for real though i just cant see whats going on whem im super close. i try to stay about 1/2 way between boss and outside edge of arena so im near enough to get heal aoes and i can see markers and stuff on my head. can also see more of the arena if i dont have monster butt in my face. Jinh fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 20:09
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As a newbie tank, I'm finding the biggest thing that trips me up is knowing what mobs In about to lose threat lead on. I kinda wish there were separate aggro icons for "you have a decent threat lead" versus "you have a tenuous threat lead". How do better tanks keep track of this? Do I just need to get used to reading the A/2/3/4/etc markers at a glance? Is there any way that doesn't involve just cycling through every mob? e: Should I just not even care about this level of micromanagement, and just Overpower again, when in doubt?
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Jul 22, 2017 20:23
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Some bosses laugh at ranged who don't stack up because they have huge conal aoe's that would be way more dodgable if they were up close. Other bosses support the feeling of separation by having per-player AoE's that stack (Bardam's Mettle's final boss is kinda crazy with 2 Melee dps for example.) And then some bosses don't care where you stand and just hit you with instants/roomwide AoE's. Good ranged who are experienced with the content will know what to do and where to stand with all of these bosses. Bad ranged do the same thing all the time and get hit for it.
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Jul 22, 2017 20:24
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Ibram Gaunt posted:this yeah you'll just focus the wrong mobs and die like a noob 
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Jul 22, 2017 20:24
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TheRagamuffin posted:As a newbie tank, I'm finding the biggest thing that trips me up is knowing what mobs In about to lose threat lead on. I kinda wish there were separate aggro icons for "you have a decent threat lead" versus "you have a tenuous threat lead". How do better tanks keep track of this? Do I just need to get used to reading the A/2/3/4/etc markers at a glance? Is there any way that doesn't involve just cycling through every mob? What class? At a certain point your aoe threat gen is going to outstrip everything.
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Jul 22, 2017 20:26
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TheRagamuffin posted:As a newbie tank, I'm finding the biggest thing that trips me up is knowing what mobs In about to lose threat lead on. I kinda wish there were separate aggro icons for "you have a decent threat lead" versus "you have a tenuous threat lead". How do better tanks keep track of this? Do I just need to get used to reading the A/2/3/4/etc markers at a glance? Is there any way that doesn't involve just cycling through every mob? In your standard pull of 3-5 mobs it's easy enough to check enmity levels via cycling through every mob (at least on KB+M.) Another trick is using the health bars to tell you what people are targeting as their primary. More damage = More enmity thus things that are dying fast tend to need your attention more. If it's a huge trash pack, either intended or of your own making, just overpower/flash/unleash or abyssal drain as needed.
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Jul 22, 2017 20:28
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On the topic of tanking can someone give me an explanation of the new meta in Sastasha where a tank in ironworks/shire gear will pull every mob in the entire dungeon? It seems next level and almost certainly above my perception, seeing as this has happened three times in a row.
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Jul 22, 2017 20:32
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Space Bat posted:On the topic of tanking can someone give me an explanation of the new meta in Sastasha where a tank in ironworks/shire gear will pull every mob in the entire dungeon? It seems next level and almost certainly above my perception, seeing as this has happened three times in a row. Nothing in Sastasha does much damage and everyone is sick of Sastasha.
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Jul 22, 2017 20:35
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